Dance Music QV/QE- Current Situation

[Dancer Bob]

My travel agent is considering putting together some dance cruises for the local community. Not dancesport fanatics, but mostly in the pre-bronze to silver range, with some beginners and a few gold. He knows I've been on Cunard and has asked my opinion.

The QR Orchestras have of course been the subject of many bitter complaints, with complete disdain from Cunard, but the recorded music between sets I found to have improved greatly in the past couple of years. Does it still mostly meet strict tempo standards?

Are they still doing those asinine party nights? If that's what we wanted we could go on Carnival for a quarter the price. And I was outraged at them pandering to drunks in the QR but not providing any alternative on HS/YC.

It's a serious concern. In Ontario, if you advertise a speciaty cruise and then provide a substandard product, you could end up with a claim of false advertising.

[fantasy51]

You could advertise it as a chance to improve social dancing skills and floormanship!

 

On my first cruise I was disappointed because the dancing was not up to the standard I had hoped for (the way I used to dance over 20 years previously). However, I have gradually changed to the view that social dancing is a skill in itself that needs to be learnt. After years of building up skills I am changing to the view that just enjoying the music and the movement can be fun in itself. I don't think a cruise dance floor is really the place to practise one's best dancing; it's a place to learn floormanship - being aware of other people and how to make the most of the floor without bumping into others or forcing them to avoid you. It's a worthwhile skill to learn.

[SEFlyer]

Which Ontario court is going to rule on what is sub-standard dancing? :D

[Dancer Bob]

Fantasy, I quite agree, I've come to regard floorcraft as a far higher skill than simply learning more complicated routines. Don't worry, we get lots of practice on crowded floors here. Add fighting crappy music and stuck behind navigation buoys who won't move makes it hard work, not fun at all. Not something worth paying to go on a cruise ship for- that's the point of worrying if there's going to be good music and uncrowded floors during the band break. Maybe foxy will weigh in with an opinion on this.

SEFlyer, well, TICO for one. I'm not a travel agent but it was a serious request so I read the TICO material. If you change golfers and golf courses to dancers and dancing, it's an exact match. I'm told TA errors and omissions insurance is now approaching six figures because some people somewhere are losing court cases (admittedly I don't know that for a fact). Anyway, my agent wants satisfied, repeat customers, not just the bare minimum.

Edited September 26, 2013 by Dancer Bob

[gentlemancruiser]

Fantasy, I quite agree, I've come to regard floorcraft as a far higher skill than simply learning more complicated routines. Don't worry, we get lots of practice on crowded floors here. Add fighting crappy music and stuck behind navigation buoys who won't move makes it hard work, not fun at all. Not something worth paying to go on a cruise ship for- that's the point of worrying if there's going to be good music and uncrowded floors during the band break. Maybe foxy will weigh in with an opinion on this.

SEFlyer, well, TICO for one. I'm not a travel agent but it was a serious request so I read the TICO material. If you change golfers and golf courses to dancers and dancing, it's an exact match. I'm told TA errors and omissions insurance is now approaching six figures because some people somewhere are losing court cases (admittedly I don't know that for a fact). Anyway, my agent wants satisfied, repeat customers, not just the bare minimum.

 

I have never known TICO to get involved into something so specific. have you reviewed their website?

 

Examples of some complaint issues with which TICO can assist:

 

I was denied boarding for my flight or cruise because I was not advised by my travel agent of the proper travel documentation.

I did not receive an invoice/receipt from my travel agency after booking and making a payment for travel services.

My invoice did not contain the Terms and Conditions of my booking.

My travel agent charged me a counseling/service fee that was never brought to my attention prior to completing my booking.

I was not advised at the time of booking of any fees or penalties for making changes or cancelling my travel services.

My travel agent did not advise me of the availability of trip cancellation or out-of-province health insurance.

My hotel or cruise ship was changed without notice.

My flight departure time was delayed or advanced by more than 24 hours.

My hotel did not supply all the amenities that were advertised by the tour operator in their brochure or on their website when I booked.

I have a question about a price increase.

 

Examples of complaint issues with which TICO cannot assist:

 

While the problems listed below may be valid, they are unfortunately outside the scope of the legislation:

 

Dissatisfaction with the customer service provided by my travel agent.

My hotel in destination was not up to my expectations with regards to food, cleanliness and the customer service provided by hotel staff.

The hotel is advertised as a 5 star property but I feel it is no more than a 3 star property.

I experienced customer service issues while in destination.

I decided to cancel my vacation due to a hurricane and I want a refund.

I made a booking last week and now the price has dropped.

[SEFlyer]

gentlemancruiser, thanks for giving Dancer Bob real TICO info to read.:D

 

My question was "which Ontario court" TICO is not even remotely close to being a court. And now we know it won't deal with customer service issues.

[Dancer Bob]

To get back to basics, the problem disappears when Cunard plays good music during the breaks, as it has been doing on QV/QE (I was disappointed the last time I was on QM2). But Cunard has never said it's a definite policy so it could change overnight. I don't trust brochure hype as far as I can throw it, but there are several posters whose reports on the current situation I would. People know I cruise regularly and ask my advice. I'm not going to advise paying Cunard's prices if I can't trust them not to deliver a Carnival product. I'm currently considering Q330, I wonder if I'd get good value?

[brigittetom]

I personally think that it's a very risky business for your TA to advertise and sell something that he has no control over.

 

Cunard advertises a ballroom, not the perfect ballroom dancers experience. Since when do the strict ballroom dancers feel that the Queens Room is designated only for them? I mean, isn't that room meant for the enjoyment of all passengers on board?

Edited September 28, 2013 by brigittetom

[lucky white heather]

I personally think that it's a very risky business for your TA to advertise and sell something that he has no control over.

 

Cunard advertises a ballroom, not the perfect ballroom dancers experience. Since when do the strict ballroom dancers feel that the Queens Room is designated only for them? I mean, isn't that room meant for the enjoyment of all passengers on board?

 

Cunard has in the past been part of selling cabins to a company who promoted"strictly"dancing cruise opportunities a couple of years ago (I think) .I phoned in to enquire what happens if the queens room "venue" was taken over by those who bought a "strictly" cruise experience and was told it would not impact on other pax.....knowing what I have already seen on the ship as we dance every evening, I wondered how this would be arranged as I could not see how those who had bought this type cruise ....dance lessons , meet the pros etc ,.....would not cause an impact on other cruisers.

 

Currently PandO are offering this type of cruise experience.

[brigittetom]

We are not dancers so it's really none of my business but I've wanted, many times, to sit and enjoy a cocktail and watch the dancers. Not a chance because we have second seating and there is no place to sit by the time I come along.

 

I would imagine a "strictly" large group would indeed impact the room. I was just thinking that any such group would have to make arrangements thru Cunard, otherwise I don't see how they could expect Cunard to provide for their high expectations. At the same time, I think these groups should be expected to have some flexibility because the rest of the passengers are entitled to a dance floor as well. :)

[Sunriseatsea]

I certainly hope large dance groups would have no right to take over the ballroom dance floor. I am all for you enjoying your hobby. Putting on a show for each other is fine. Many of us do not care to watch "Dancing with the Stars" and don't have any interest in making a path for the roller derby. We do however expect high quality musicians and a lovely,relaxed opportunity to dance, however unprofessional we may look. Elegance requires respecting other people's private space, whether in loud talking, smoke, cell phones, or swinging arms and elbows as you speed around the ballroom.Perhaps a special reserved time for your group could be arranged. I just don't agree that it is appropriate or welcome when it intrudes on everyone else.

[lucky white heather]

I certainly hope large dance groups would have no right to take over the ballroom dance floor. I am all for you enjoying your hobby. Putting on a show for each other is fine. Many of us do not care to watch "Dancing with the Stars" and don't have any interest in making a path for the roller derby. We do however expect high quality musicians and a lovely,relaxed opportunity to dance, however unprofessional we may look. Elegance requires respecting other people's private space, whether in loud talking, smoke, cell phones, or swinging arms and elbows as you speed around the ballroom.Perhaps a special reserved time for your group could be arranged. I just don't agree that it is appropriate or welcome when it intrudes on everyone else.

 

 

Which is why I didn't book ...We cruise specifically to have an opportunity to dance as we don't have anything near us at home , but if a large group with their own "events" aboard is booked on , whether it is offered by Cunard or another booking agent , it must surely impact other cruisers so we didn't feel we wanted to have to take a chance on that.However the Strictly cruises seem to sell very well so you have to assume most cruisers don't find it off putting or it is a surprise for them when they board?

[Sunriseatsea]

I would never be in your dance circle, but you sound like the reasonable type of individual we all enjoy meeting! Good luck in arranging something that meets your needs.

[lucky white heather]

I would never be in your dance circle, but you sound like the reasonable type of individual we all enjoy me

 

eting! Good luck in arranging something that meets your needs.

 

I think you have misunderstood my original post...I commented on a strictly type cruise that was available / being offered on Cunard a couple of years ago...one of several offered I think.

I don't organise them.They were organised by a booking agency and Cunard must have agreed to offer 'facilities' for those who bought these cruises from that agency i knew the queens room was the only place large groups of dancers could've been accommodated so I enquired from Cunard how a large group of cruisers who booked on specifically via that agent would impact the cruise for those who were not part of that specific group.

The answers I got convinced me that as ordinary cruisers who enjoy going to the ballroom every night , would probably be a bit affected by such a large group of dancers who were obviously booking on to have the lessons, meet the pros taking the lessons etc and all that stuff...it would not have suited us as we are just regular dancers of no great ability who enjoy the opportunity to dance on the ships.

 

Hope this clarifies my position.

[Dancer Bob]

We're lumping several different arguments together

- I've been asking specifically about recorded music in breaks. What Cunard is already doing on QV/QE is fine. If it's working, why are they so coy about saying "we'll keep doing it"?

- a large group, not just dancers, can do whatever the ship lets them. Have you been following the posts about QM2 out of Hamburg?

- it doesn't take a large group for bad floorcraft to impact others. That's been a major topic on many of the dancers' posts. I've found Cunard staff to be utterly useless for discreet suggestions when someone is interfering with others.

- most non-dancers are never going to notice whether Cunard is playing strict tempo music. And I think most dancers accept bands have to play "Feelings" and "Lady In Red" at some point.

[lucky white heather]

We're lumping several different arguments together

- I've been asking specifically about recorded music in breaks. What Cunard is already doing on QV/QE is fine. If it's working, why are they so coy about saying "we'll keep doing it"?

- a large group, not just dancers, can do whatever the ship lets them. Have you been following the posts about QM2 out of Hamburg?

- it doesn't take a large group for bad floorcraft to impact others. That's been a major topic on many of the dancers' posts. I've found Cunard staff to be utterly useless for discreet suggestions when someone is interfering with others.

- most non-dancers are never going to notice whether Cunard is playing strict tempo music. And I think most dancers accept bands have to play "Feelings" and "Lady In Red" at some point.

 

I can't comment on the music in the breaks particularly on QM2 as we haven't sailed that ship for some time.

However we have sailed both QE and QV recently and this is just our opinion , but the taped music isn't too tempting although some people do get up but seem to use that chance to practice their various steps or routines they are learning.

 

Floor craft does't really figure with some younger guests as they probably haven't had much opportunity to learn it unlike many of us of a certain age and I mean my own age group who went to dance halls regularly and had to work with crowds dancing round. We often wonder how the ones dancing round in the wrong direction don't notice they are going against the "flow" and causing problems?

Every cruise has its own dancers group , usually with some experienced dancers who do demonstrate floor craft and some cruises are not so lucky. You have to take your chances when you get aboard....we are always happy to join in and obey the rules.It makes dancing aboard so much more enjoyable.

[theTom&Carol]

I guess to change the subject, during last month's QM2 crossing I was impressed that there were 5 or 6 gentleman dance hosts aboard, working the Queen's Ballroom. Dutifully every dance, these fellows would step out to find/ask a lady to dance. That certainly is a nice service Cunard provides many dance-starved ladies.

 

No, never danced with these fellows. My wife and I were dancing ourselves, enjoying the very nice music. These hosts easily adapt to the skill level of the lady. Very cordial gentlemen.

 

So, my question is..... Does Cunard do Gentlemen dance hosting well?

 

I briefly talked with two Cunard Gentlemen dance hosts. One fellow is on a 30-day hosting commitment. I believe he said that Cunard picks up the cost of his time aboard (he doesn't have to pay any fractional per-day cost). When asked if they must attend other social functions (I mentioned Bridge, excursions, etc.) to entertain as requested, he said "no". A couple hosts were at the midday 'free' dance lesson, but guess that is not required. I believe the ship does their laundry, too. Bet they're bunking above the engine room.

What a deal, huh? I was told in order to apply as a host, one must go to a dance studio to prepare a video of yourself dancing 6 different ballroom dances.... send it in to somebody (dunno who?), and see what happens.

 

Oh, awhile back I ran across mention of a gentlemen dance host who has written a book on his experiences. Probably an interesting read.

 

Comments?

[lucky white heather]

I guess to change the subject, during last month's QM2 crossing I was impressed that there were 5 or 6 gentleman dance hosts aboard, working the Queen's Ballroom. Dutifully every dance, these fellows would step out to find/ask a lady to dance. That certainly is a nice service Cunard provides many dance-starved ladies.

 

No, never danced with these fellows. My wife and I were dancing ourselves, enjoying the very nice music. These hosts easily adapt to the skill level of the lady. Very cordial gentlemen.

 

So, my question is..... Does Cunard do Gentlemen dance hosting well?

 

I briefly talked with two Cunard Gentlemen dance hosts. One fellow is on a 30-day hosting commitment. I believe he said that Cunard picks up the cost of his time aboard (he doesn't have to pay any fractional per-day cost). When asked if they must attend other social functions (I mentioned Bridge, excursions, etc.) to entertain as requested, he said "no". A couple hosts were at the midday 'free' dance lesson, but guess that is not required. I believe the ship does their laundry, too. Bet they're bunking above the engine room.

What a deal, huh? I was told in order to apply as a host, one must go to a dance studio to prepare a video of yourself dancing 6 different ballroom dances.... send it in to somebody (dunno who?), and see what happens.

 

Oh, awhile back I ran across mention of a gentlemen dance host who has written a book on his experiences. Probably an interesting read.

 

Comments?

 

Because those who dance most evenings aboard the ship, get to easily recognise other regular dancers and dance hosts , it is easy to start conversations with each other.We often get to know the dance hosts pretty well for the duration of every cruise. They are usually pretty good company and have been around a bit , have done interesting things in their lives pre- dance hosting. They seem to have very few dancing skills to demonstrate but that doesn't mean they aren't capable of much better skills than we see around the cruise dance floor ...it depends on the partners they find amongst the willing!

Some of them are toiling to get someone to dance with and look busy , yet on other cruises Cunard could have employed half a dozen more.Every cruise is different. The take up numbers of their offer to dance seems to match the number of single ladies aboard who come to the ballroom , or those with a husband /partner who doesn't dance, but the lady wants to.

They have to be able to converse somehow with all nationalities and be generous with their teaching skills for complete novice dancers.

I think they do a great job which is why on most cruises we've been on . the dance hosts work their socks off every night and are required to take part in the dance lessons every day that these are programmed.It seems to be a contract situation for a required nuimber of days and probably suits most of them quite well.

Just my take on what we 've heard from the hosts we've spoken to .We think the cruiselines ( I include our former cruiseline of choice ) who did away with the hosts missed a trick and inadvertantly gave lots of business to Cunard and/ or the other cruiselines who still provide them.

[fantasy51]

Being a single female dancer, I have spoken with a few of the dance hosts. This is the situation as I have learnt it from them.

 

They are employed through the agency and they pay the agency a fee. I think it's about $33 per day. For a long cruise, they are paying a thousand dollars. If the cruise is 30 days then their air fare is free. If it is shorter than that, then they have to pay their own air fare.

 

On my last cruise I discovered that they also hosted the Singles Meet and Greet each sea day (and it was a cruise with lots of sea days). They were also required to attend the dance lessons and the sailaway parties to dance with people.

 

They share a stateroom with another dancer. It's too bad if they have different sleeping habits (like one who used to get up noisily each morning and go to the gym, then insist on privacy in the afternoon to sleep). This could be any level of room, but it is likely to be cheaper rather than balcony.

 

They are expected to dance in the 7:45 session and again in the 9:15 session. They should take it in turns to ask each single lady, but there are some hosts who play favourites. (I heard from a friend about one who was very blatant about it.) On some ships the hosts are given scheduled breaks during those sessions (e.g. only dance when the band is playing, and rest during recorded music) but on Queen Victoria they were expected to dance every track. Any break they took was managed by hiding behind a pillar! Consequently some of them are saying that they do not wish to travel on QV again.

 

Because of their hours, they eat their evening meals in the Lido restaurant, but should be able to eat lunch in the main dining room. This is part of their contract. However, it has been known for the Maitre D' to treat them as crew and turn them away from the MDR. That resulted in a message to their agency. The Maitre D' did not take it well!

 

There can be other duties sprung on them at the last minute. That happened on the last leg of a world cruise this year when they were suddenly told that they would be working at the Country Faire. I gather this changes from ship to ship.

 

As for standards, on my April cruise there were 2 excellent dancers, 1 good dancer and 3 hopeless dancers. The standard varies. On the cruise before there was someone who could not even keep in time to the music. I have heard of Hosts who sent in a video of a friend dancing, in order to pass the test!

[gadabout60]

I haven't cruised with Cunard before - only with P&O and Celebrity, but was looking at a med cruise on QE.

 

However reading through this post I am bit put off - do passengers take dancing this seriously on Cunard? I am indifferent to dancing on a cruise and previous cruises have been fine but I wouldn't want to feel I was having to avoid certain areas because of "serious dancing" - to me it is just a bit of fun

[Dancer Bob]

Don't worry, gadabout60. If you don't like dancing at all, there are lots of places for you- Commodore Club, Golden Lion, library, lots of others. You can have a wonderful cruise and never know we're there. Even in the Queens Room, we're talking about how best to share the space- very few non-dancers stay around during band breaks at any time.

Edited September 29, 2013 by Dancer Bob

[fantasy51]

Hi Gadabout. If you are a casual dancer, don't be put off. On both of my last two cruises I have taken along non-dancers from my table and introduced them to dancing. They fit right in! They ended up enjoying it so much that they will continue with dancing back home. The dancing mob are generally friendly and chat to each other. Only a few are very serious about their dancing. In my experience there isn't room on the floor to be serious, and the atmosphere is such that people just set out to have a good time. Please come and join us.

[theTom&Carol]

Read the following Dance host story and watch the Video (likely Cunard contributed to both):

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444868204578064991960361294.html#articleTabs%3Darticle

Regarding the QM2 Queens Ballroom.... the overall room is big. If you are not a dancer, simply sit around the upper levels and enjoy the music and drinks.

Non-dancers, no need to fret...... the Dance Hosts only troll around the lower seating area, close to the dance floor. Of course, you can always say, "please, no-thank-you". they'll get the drift, fast.

[Strictly Ballroom]

Having just come off HAL's Oosterdam, I think I will be a lot more inclined towards Cunard.

 

The only ballroom available were classes for Dancing With the Stars at Sea competition. Which really had NOTHING to do with ballroom. Having attended the 'Jive' lessons, I can say, there was not a single step that at all resembled anything in the Jive. There were, on the other hand, some American Foxtrot steps in it? :eek: This was the only ballroom type dancing offered on the entire week sailing.

 

There was one band playing some music that was big band oriented during pre dinner hours, but alas, the 'dance floor' by that stage was maybe 8 by 10 feet, so there was really no way to do a proper dance on it.

 

At this point, I look forward to maybe some dodgy tempos here and there, or hosts that might not be the most spry dancers in the world. Anything - anything at all - has to be a lot better than absolutely nothing! :D

[brigittetom]

[quote

. Anything - anything at all - has to be a lot better than absolutely nothing! :D

 

There, thats the spirit......If more people cruised with that attitude, there would be a lot more happy cruisers. :D