Hanidcapped-recent knee injury-no hc cabins available

[montgomeryfamily]

Lizzybell, I suggest that you advise your sister to consider getting a scooter. There is some information on the disabled forum about this. If she has a regular size cabin, a regular scooter won't fit in the door. However, she could possibly leave it at the end of a hallway (where it woudn't block the aisle). There is also a type of narrow scooter that people who can balance and have have most of the use of their legs can use--it sounds like your sister would be able to use it--and it would fit (barely) through the doorway of your stateroom, although unless you have a minisuite or higher, there won't be enough room inside for it. Otherwise, I suggest renting a wheelchair for your sister as this would be a safer situation on the ship and less tiring for her.

 

Ironically, Princess does have a way of checking to find out if a person who has booked a particular stateroom, including HC staterooms, is disabled/requires special services. It is on the cruise personalizer. You go to the special services section and indicate various types of impairments or needs, like special diets or shower chairs. It doesn't appear that Princess actually uses the information on the cruise personalizer, though, as a screening tool to determine if the person who booked is disabled. If Princess did, they could then always call that person to confirm

[montgomeryfamily]

Lizzybell, I suggest that you advise your sister to consider getting a scooter. There is some information on the disabled forum about this. If she has a regular size cabin, a regular scooter won't fit in the door. However, she could possibly leave it at the end of a hallway (where it woudn't block the aisle). There is also a type of narrow scooter that people who can balance and have have most of the use of their legs can use--it sounds like your sister would be able to use it--and it would fit (barely) through the doorway of your stateroom, although unless you have a minisuite or higher, there won't be enough room inside for it. Otherwise, I suggest renting a wheelchair for your sister as this would be a safer situation on the ship and less tiring for her.

 

Ironically, Princess does have a way of checking to find out if a person who has booked a particular stateroom, including HC staterooms, is disabled/requires special services. It is on the cruise personalizer. You go to the special services section and indicate various types of impairments or needs, like special diets or shower chairs. It doesn't appear that Princess actually uses the information on the cruise personalizer, though, as a screening tool to determine if the person who booked is disabled. If Princess did use the Cruise Personalizer as a screening tool, they could then always call the passengers who booked that cabin to at least see if the person declares themself to be disabled.

 

This would also provide a tool to allow an able bodied passenger to be moved from the HC room, even at time of sailing, to a regular stateroom (assuming that such a stateroom was available), in a situation like the OP has.

 

But Princess doesn't use the cruise personalizer for this and they also don't hold/set aside HC staterooms for disabled even many months before a sailing. Yet if you ask them their policy, they will say that HC rooms are for disabled and any able bodied booked in those rooms will be moved. They just don't follow their own policy.

[montgomeryfamily]

Lizzybell, I suggest that you advise your sister to consider getting a scooter. There is some information on the disabled forum about this. If she has a regular size cabin, a regular scooter won't fit in the door. However, she could possibly leave it at the end of a hallway (where it woudn't block the aisle). There is also a type of narrow scooter that people who can balance and have have most of the use of their legs can use--it sounds like your sister would be able to use it--and it would fit (barely) through the doorway of your stateroom, although unless you have a minisuite or higher, there won't be enough room inside for it. Otherwise, I suggest renting a wheelchair for your sister as this would be a safer situation on the ship and less tiring for her.

 

Ironically, Princess does have a way of checking to find out if a person who has booked a particular stateroom, including HC staterooms, is disabled/requires special services. It is on the cruise personalizer. You go to the special services section and indicate various types of impairments or needs, like special diets or shower chairs. It doesn't appear that Princess actually uses the information on the cruise personalizer, though, as a screening tool to determine if the person who booked is disabled. If Princess did use the Cruise Personalizer as a screening tool, they could then always call the passengers who booked that cabin to at least see if the person declares themself to be disabled.

 

This would also provide a tool to allow an able bodied passenger to be moved from the HC room, even at time of sailing, to a regular stateroom (assuming that such a stateroom was available), in a situation like the OP has.

 

But Princess doesn't use the cruise personalizer for this and they also don't hold/set aside HC staterooms for disabled even many months before a sailing. Yet if you ask them their policy, they will say that HC rooms are for disabled and any able bodied booked in those rooms will be moved. They just don't follow their own policy.

 

Princess has a high level officer in the company who is responsible for disabled access/issues and she is even on one of the US access boards. However, you can't even call or email her because Princess will not give out that information. Because Princess doesn't have a special services dept., no one seems to have "ownership" of the disabled access issues/problems. This is one area in which Princess could learn a valuable lesson from Celebrity, who has a special services dept and dedicated customer service representatives.

[Cruising_K]

I have a small group of 16 friends and family members who are going on the Caribbean Princess in a couple of weeks. We have group space in 2 categories. You can't book a specific cabin until you make your deposit.

My husband and I had trouble coming up with the money until the last date we were permitted to make payment. At that time the only cabins that were left in both categories were wheelchair accessible. Two cabins in one cat. and one cabin in the other. We were told we had to take one because that was all that was left.

I did not take this cabin because it was bigger or because I am a bad person. There simply was nothing else. I have to say that after all the problems I have read about on this board, I was surprised that the ship had so many wheelchair accessible cabins available in the last few months before sailing. The Caribbean Princess has 21 of these cabins. I do not know if that is a high or low number in comparison to other ships but I was surprised.

[Lizzybell]

Cruising_K-you were assigned those cabins by Princess-you didnt request them specifically for more room, like some cruisers do, you did absolutely nothing wrong(& have a great time-heard she is a lovely ship :). My beef is w/the cruisers that request them months out for a few extra feet and are not handicapped! if those cabins were the only ones left, maybe Princess is slowly changing their screening policy by putting them aside for actual handicapped passengers. I hope so. I believe all the Grand class ships have @ the same # of hc cabins.

Montgomery Family-thank you for your suggestion of the scooter, i have passed the info along to her. If Princess wont even give an email address for the dept head, that sends a clear messege that no one wants to bear responsibility for the Handicapped issues & the problems that arise due to lack of a fair screening policy. Thanks, Liz

[stellalimelight]

Since this was a last minute knee injury, when you get to the port, explain the situation to the princess people and have them see if there is someone in a comparible catergory that has a h/c room that is not h/c. I am sure, unless your room is an inside and theirs is not, and they are not complete self centered human beings, then someone would be happy to change. I would not mind, however there are rude people in this world.

 

So I would check with the boarding supervisor onsite at pier 30.

 

Good Luck

 

Shelley

[montgomeryfamily]

Lizzybell, also tell your sister that if she has other specific questions about cruising with a scooter or wheelchair, there is a lot of infomation on the disabled forum already and she can also post a new question(s).

 

Cruising K, I realize that Princess assigned you the HC stateroom and you didn't request this. Also, Princess didn't apparently give you any options. I don't think that you wanted to get the HC cabin and that it was basically given to you as a take it or leave it situation. There are many cruisers who didn't request a HC stateroom and find that they received one on assignment from a guarantee, were upgraded to one, or didn't know they had one until they walked into the room. In some cases, the passengers have the opportunity to reject such an "upgrade" or assignment because it is HC and they didn't want to take such a stateroom they didn't need. I applaud those cruisers. Others have no opportunity to make such a rejection. This is another area in which Princess could/should be holding these staterooms--but instead of protecting them from assignment by the AB, Princess is doing the assigning--again a deficiency in the Princess system.

 

There is a possiblity that no one disabled needed the stateroom on that sailing. However, it is not clear how far in advance that you booked. Final payment on groups is 90 days or more from sailing. So at a minimum I assume that the cruise was three months away. I know that many disabled try to book as soon as possible, months and even years in advance. But really, since everyone else has the ability/right to book much closer to sailing when cabins are available, the disabled should also have this right. And they would be able to do so more often if these HC cabins didn't seem to be some of the first ones booked for guarantees and upgrades, as well as sometimes deliberately booked by AB. But if Princess doesn't hold the staterooms until closer to time to sailing, such as thirty days, then disabled who want to book closer in to sailing will find the staterooms are taken and as has been discussed, Princess won't usually move the AB passengers, even if regular staterooms are available.

 

To put it in prospective, there are 1337 cabins on the Caribbean Princess. Of these, only 25 are wheelchair accessible. As you see, that is a very small percentage. Of the 25 wheelchair cabins, only five are an inside category: three in one inside category, one in another inside category, and one in third inside category. However, there are more than three inside categories of staterooms. If your group is only being given cabins in the categories which have the accessible cabins, it is possible that many more inside cabins actually are empty and available on the ship, but disabled can't use those. If there are lots of inside cabins available in other categories, then Princess could still hold those five accessible staterooms until closer to sailing and place people in those other inside categories.

 

For outside cabins, the only ones accessible to disabled are four which are obstructed view outside--not the stateroom of choice for most who book outside staterooms.

 

There are a total of sixteen balcony accessible staterooms--on a ship that has over 680 staterooms with balconies. There are NO accessible minisuites or suites--None of the Grand class ships have accessible minisuites and suites. This means that disabled can not pay to get a minisuite or suite and all of those nice amenities/perks that have been added. The best stateroom on the ship that disabled can book is the balcony stateroom.

 

Now, please understand that disabled are happy that the cruise lines have these accessible staterooms availalble. But when the cruise line doesn't even try to hold the few they have for at least a reasonable time before sailing, this negates the effort by the cruise line that was put into the design for the accessible staterooms and has the same effect as if there weren't any accessible staterooms originally.

 

In addition, disabled can't usually take advantage of upgrades, certain types of promotions (book balcony-get minisuite), and flash sales (because the HC cabins aren't usually available after final payment date because in addition to allowing AB to book the HC cabins, Princess often assigns guarantees and upgrades at this point rather than waiting closer to sailing).

 

By changing their system, using the Cruise Personalizer, and/or other measures, Princess could hold the HC staterooms for the disabled much longer and still sail with a full ship at sailing. If there are no staterooms available at all in a particular type of stateroom (inside, outside, balcony), then Princess should/could release those for booking earlier. But if Princess is assigning HC staterooms to AB because a specific category of that particular type of stateroom is full, that really isn't right because Princess doesn't have HC staterooms in all categories of each particular type--Princess should wait until it is much closer to sailing--like thirty days--not before final payment date.

[Cruising_K]

Kathy:

 

You seem very knowledgeable on the subject so I just wanted to give you a heads up on a couple of things. I am looking at my group contract and payment for us is the same as non-group. Final is due 75 days prior unless you are traveling on a holiday, then it is 90 days. The second thing I wanted to mention is that our cruise was completely sold out at five weeks prior to sailing. I called and tried to add someone. Not a single cabin left.

 

I would be very surprised if Princess or most cruise lines for that matter would hold any cabins until 30 days out if their was a chance they could fill them sooner. Their hope is to sell every single cabin as soon as possible.

 

My Mother-In –Law, after two unsuccessful back surgeries, uses a scooter around the house and a wheelchair when they go out. I do understand some of the frustrations and I appreciate your passion on the subject because one person can make a difference. Thank you for your added perspective.

 

We cruise ever two years as a family (it is a great way for people from all over the country to meet) and we always plan our trips a year out. I have been very lucky so far in getting the cabins to meet any special needs but I can understand the frustration in people who do not have the option of planning so far in advance.

[flashdog_1]

Sometimes a person's medical condition requiring the use of a wheelchair is not evident to others. The person could have a heart condition, or be on the mend from an injury, but is supposed to limit walking.

[montgomeryfamily]

Cruising K, thanks for giving me the information about your group. The Cruise Critic groups (including the one for which I am the group leader, below), all have been told by the travel agent handling the groups that Princess requires the payment 90 days out, except in the case of a holiday, which is even longer, as you indicate. I would like to let Laura know of this discrepancy that our Cruise Critic groups are receiving in regard to final payment dates, as it is important to some who book the group cruise. She has been able to at least obtain the same or better group rates and other particulars for Cruise Critic when we find out that some other TA is able to offer something else. So I would appreciate it if you could email me at kacruiser@ev1.net the name of the travel agency you are using so I can pass that on to Laura. Please don't post it here as we are not supposed to recommend travel agents/agencies on the board and I don't want anyone to get the wrong idea.

 

 

As I said, I know that you didn't have any choice in your stateroom category assignment. We all recognize you didn't request it and obviously, with your aunts disability, you are sensitive to the problelms those in wheelchairs and scooters have with access.

 

Apparently your particular sailing is very popular to be completely sold out at five weeks, but as I said, I wouldn't expect Princess to hold HC cabins if a particular type of stateroom is sold out.

 

QUOTE]If there are no staterooms available at all in a particular type of stateroom (inside,outside, balcony), then Princess should/could release those for booking earlier

 

You are fortunate to be able to book a year or more in advance. It is difficult for some, as vacation schedules may not be approved until only a few months earlier, or less. And there may be other reasons. There are lots of people on the board who don't book until much closer to sailing for a variety of reasons. Of course, since you are doing groups, it is important to try to get these lined up as soon as possible, as Princess can limit group space on a sailing.

 

Since so many people read this thread, I thought it was important to explain the situation regarding HC cabins on the Caribbean Princess and other grand class ships. I think that education such as this will aid in others understanding this issue and increase their awareness. I don't doubt that most thought, like I did when we first started cruising on Princess, that Princess had procedures to put disabled in HC cabins, even if AB had booked the staterooms, as this is the misconception that Princess and some TAs perpetuate. Also, from what I am seeing with other postings and talking to others, it doesn't appear that Princess is addressing the issue--if they are making changes, it appears to be glacial in speed. :)

[critterchick]

 

 

There are a total of sixteen balcony accessible staterooms--on a ship that has over 680 staterooms with balconies. There are NO accessible minisuites or suites--None of the Grand class ships have accessible minisuites and suites. This means that disabled can not pay to get a minisuite or suite and all of those nice amenities/perks that have been added. The best stateroom on the ship that disabled can book is the balcony stateroom.

 

Actually, there are two far aft minsuites that are disabled on the Grand Class ships (I'm not sure if they're on all of them). They have large wrap-around balconies. Although aft addicts generally crave such cabins, the interiors are inconveniently laid out for TABs - beds are on opposite sides of the cabin and configuring them to queen is awkward and there's no couch in the living area, just some chairs, as I understand from other posters.

[montgomeryfamily]

There are no accessible minisuites shown on the deck plans of any of the Grand class ships and Princess customer service says there aren't any accessible minisuites on the Grand class ships.

 

So Critterchick, would you please provide the ship and stateroom number of these two accessible minisuites. I would like to obtain more information about those staterooms, but cannot because I can't determine which ones you are talking about. Thanks.

[waterrats]

I must be very naive, I just can't imagine booking a handicap cabin or parking in a handicap spot even, unless I was. You have all enligtened me of things to come I'm sure. Thanks.

 

Welcome to the new United States. If you are not lazy, rude, or overweight, please be seated and eat. We will get back to you when you gain some weight.

 

With a lazy nation like ours that is 60% overweight, one would think that 60% of cabins on new ships would be handicapped.

[montgomeryfamily]

If waterrats post hadn't included the quote, I would have been certain that waterrats had posted to the wrong thread, as this comment makes no sense in relation to the OPs situation or to the issues in this thread. :confused: Perhaps this all hits too close to home for waterrats. :D

[Knuklehead]

Xxxxxx

[skarletohara]

Because of the ADA, lots of good things have happened.

But sometimes people take advantage of situations

that have been created by this ADA stuff. Some people equate ADA with

special preference.

 

Princess does have several handicapped cabins. If Princess doesn't have a cabin

available at the moment for someone who needs it, it's not Princess' fault. Princess should reserve

the handicapped cabins until a certain point, i.e., before final payment, but if someone sustains a last- minute injury, then the burden shouldn't be on Princess to rectify the situation.

Maybe Princess could set aside even more extra cabins for people with disabilities, but then when those cabins don't fill up and Princess can't sell them last minute,

and the cruise line starts losing money, then the higher prices will be passed on to all others to make up the deficit from not filling all of the cabins.

 

My husband and I were on a Caribbean cruise in December '03, and seriously,

it seemed as if at least 25% of the passengers were in wheelchairs, scooters,

on walkers or canes. Now that being the case, how could Princess possibly

provide for so many who were non-ambulatory? Is it reasonable to say

that Princess MUST provide special rooms for 25% of the ship's passengers?

[montgomeryfamily]

Skarletohara, did you read the three pages of posts here on this thread or just respond to the OP's original post? Because the prior posts on these pages of the thread explain that the problem isn't that there isn't enough accessible cabins--THE PROBLEM IS THAT PRINCESS ALLOWS ABLE BODIED PASSENGERS TO BOOK WHEELCHAIR ACCESSIBLE STATEROOMS OR EVEN ASSIGNS ABLE BODIED PASSENGERS TO THESE STATEROOMS, often many months or even years before the sailing. No one in this thread is saying that Princess should provide more accessible staterooms--just let the disabled occupy the accessible staterooms that are already constructed on the ship.

 

There are only 25 accessible staterooms on the Caribbean Princess, out of a total of 1337 passenger cabins on the ship. I don't think it is asking too much for Princess to allow those 25 staterooms which are already designed to be accessible to be booked by disabled passengers and to hold those staterooms until 30 days before sailing before opening them up to able bodied for booking. They sell more guarantee cabins than that on a sailing and the guarantees don't have to be assigned until right before sailing. So if Princess manages the program correctly, the staterooms would never have to sail empty, even if it was an able bodied passenger with a guarantee in it.

 

As far as the OP getting an accessible stateroom, with the sailing date so close, it may or may not be Princess' fault if the OP doesn't get one, but we don't know all of the facts to determine that. If Princess has checked with the passengers booked into the HC cabins on that sailing, perhaps even through just screening the Cruise Personalizer, and all of the HC staterooms are occupied by disabled (or at least declaring themselves to be disabled), then it is not Princess' fault.

 

But if there are able bodied passengers in those staterooms, Princess' own policy states that they will move able bodied passengers to accommodate disabled passengers. However, what many of us have learned is that Princess usually does not check to see if the passengers occupying the HC staterooms are even self-declaring themselves disabled nor does Princess use the Cruise Personalizer to see if the passengers have indicated special needs. SO IN THESE CASES PRINCESS IS NOT FOLLOWING THEIR OWN POLICY--IMHO I believe it is their fault when they don't follow their own policy.

[skarletohara]

MontgomeryFamily:

 

As the wife of a handicapped husband (future cruiser) yes, I read all the posts.

I GET IT.

[montgomeryfamily]

Skarletohara, I certainly believe that anyone who has used the disabled Princess program is entitled to their opinion about it--including that they are satisfied with the way that it works now. I was just surprised by your post, given the prior discussion that had taken place. Sorry.

[West Coast]

There are no accessible minisuites shown on the deck plans of any of the Grand class ships and Princess customer service says there aren't any accessible minisuites on the Grand class ships. So Critterchick, would you please provide the ship and stateroom number of these two accessible minisuites. I would like to obtain more information about those staterooms, but cannot because I can't determine which ones you are talking about. Thanks.

 

D732 & D733. These are mini-suites at the very end of balcony row. They have a roll-in shower and the beds are set-up in a permanent 'twin' configuration. They were once marked as handicapped but no longer - but the configuration remains as described - Princess describes these two cabins as "Two lower beds not convertible to queen; shower only"

 

There have been recent posts (within 2 weeks) about people enquiring about these cabins - both able bodied and those with wheel chairs. Someone even found some photos and posted them.

[waterrats]

If waterrats post hadn't included the quote, I would have been certain that waterrats had posted to the wrong thread, as this comment makes no sense in relation to the OPs situation or to the issues in this thread. :confused: Perhaps this all hits too close to home for waterrats. :D

 

Kathy - sorry to disappoint you but that is way to far from the truth. I am actually one of the minority in the country that is not overweight. I actaully have no problems walking anywhere on the ship as we never take the lifts. Doesn't bother me a bit about getting a HC room. I know some people like them because of the slightly larger room and bathroom. Most americans would love the extra wide showers as they can't fit in the slim ones provided.

[montgomeryfamily]

West Coast, thanks for providing those minisuite stateroom numbers. I used those numbers and did a search of the board to find the pictures and threads regarding those staterooms. They do have a roll in shower and hand rails. However, several of those who posted said that Princess reclassified these staterooms from handicapped to regular staterooms because the doorways of these staterooms are too narrow. The doorways of an accessible stateroom must be a certain minimum width to accommodate a wheelchair. The doorways of regular staterooms are too narrow for wheelchairs. None of the posts actually listed the doorway width. So I'm going to contact Princess tomorrow and find out the width of the doorways. I'll post the information once I find out.

 

I also could not determine from the posts and pictures whether there were any ramps or whether the bathroom door and balcony door had a step or ledge. I'll ask about this information alsoand post it here too.

[WCAB]

Kathy - sorry to disappoint you but that is way to far from the truth. I am actually one of the minority in the country that is not overweight. I actaully have no problems walking anywhere on the ship as we never take the lifts. Doesn't bother me a bit about getting a HC room. I know some people like them because of the slightly larger room and bathroom. Most americans would love the extra wide showers as they can't fit in the slim ones provided.

 

I'm sorry but I don't understand your position on this subject. Are you stating that abled body people should be able to book these cabins or that they should be reserved for the handicapped? Being overweight in and of itself is not a handicap. There are plenty of healthy overweight people. I think we are talking about any health problem that confines you to the use of a wheelchair or a walker.

[kryos]

Since this was a last minute knee injury, when you get to the port, explain the situation to the princess people and have them see if there is someone in a comparible catergory that has a h/c room that is not h/c. I am sure, unless your room is an inside and theirs is not, and they are not complete self centered human beings, then someone would be happy to change. I would not mind, however there are rude people in this world.

Frankly, I don't even think it should be an option. If there is an equal category, or even better, non-handicapped cabin available, the able-bodied family should be moved out. Period.

 

Of course, if nothing's available in their category or better to move them to, then you're stuck with the non-handicapped cabin ... unless they ... out of the goodness of their hearts ... are willing to move to a lower category cabin.

 

I guess that's just one more obstacle permanently handicapped folks have to deal with. They have no choice but to book their cruises way, way ahead of time in order to ensure they get one of the few available handicapped cabins.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[waterrats]

I'm sorry but I don't understand your position on this subject. Are you stating that abled body people should be able to book these cabins or that they should be reserved for the handicapped? Being overweight in and of itself is not a handicap. There are plenty of healthy overweight people. I think we are talking about any health problem that confines you to the use of a wheelchair or a walker.

 

unfortunately this is something that is hard for the cruiselines to verify prior to boarding. These should be left for the h/c. One day, I am sure most of us will be in that position as we get older and our bones start to creak. Most people tend to be greedy and try to get the absolute best even if it means putting the h/c in a room that they should not be in because of others booking cabins like this.

 

I do realize that some people are placed in these cabins unknowingly. If it were me, I would most likely request to move because I just don't need it and if I saw someone in a wheelchair trying to get into a normal cabin, i would feel bad for taking up one of a few h/c rooms.