Tip more than the included 15% or not?

[Ex techie]

Mine in Green. I hate Green!

 

My counter notes in black after >>> Just to make it more confusing.

 

So no states with ports are currently charging sales tax on cruises, but states with ports CAN charge, if they wish, a sales tax, but states without ports cannot right?

So when you pay your cruise fare, who are you actually paying? In the case of DCL, are you paying Disney Cruise Line in Celebration FL, or the Magical Cruise Company in the UK trading as Disney Cruise Line? Are you paying DCL in FL for the cruise or MCC in the UK?

 

I ask that as if say DCL opened an office in Kansas to handle transactions, that as a non port state so no sales tax on the cruise? What would stop the cruise lines from moving an office to a landlocked state?

 

Additionally, unlike land based businesses, cruise lines can move their product within a few hours to a different location. So if TX were for example to implement that state cruise sales tax, then the lines could move their ships to other ports.

 

What actual physical product is consumed in the state to be taxed? Very little before they are international waters, and then no tax applies.

 

>>> That pretty much sums up WHY they aren't collecting. Basically, sales taxes operate by exclusion, which effectively means that if an item is purchased in state and consumed in state and is not specifically excluded, you are supposed to pay sales tax on it. It gets a LOT more complicated with inter-state purchases. Honestly, it would probably take the courts to sort it out.

 

So they are not collecting taxes because it is not finical viable to collect them?

 

Disney DOES hire some staff through agencies that take a percentage of base salary, as well as via other means. They do hire less that way than other larger lines. (Confirmed this from a contact at Disney corporate who asked a colleague at DCL HR)

 

Yes the Chinese laundry is one of them. They are non DCL CM's and are vendors much like the Photog's, Medical staff, Spa and Shopping Guides.

I was told once that the Filipino Government has an agency type arrangement for partial payment of their wages for citizens not working within the country and at sea. Not sure of any details or truth though.

 

>>> This is in line with what I heard, except I think Laundry and Maintenance are paid by DCL. The Phillipine rules are complex as heck regarding overseas income, not even going to try to parse those.

 

The laundry were operated by a vendor when I was aboard. They wear a plain white non Disney or DCL logo name badge.

 

Anecdotal and possibly out of date - this is from someone who works currently on RCCL has worked on NCL and Disney (5+ years ago) - Disney pays their people a little less than the other lines (I'm referring to stewards, servers, etc) but working conditions at least to her was a little better (slightly bigger staff cabins - she only ever had a 2 person but there were some 3s and 4s, the laundry staff and cleaners got those). Stewards (again her opinion) have it a bit worse on Disney because of the 2 bathrooms in all cabins and higher (messy) young kid volume (or as she put it, you would not believe where I found dirty diapers or clothing)

 

Some Asian countries DO charge tax on cruise fares (China is one). This is typically handled by the booking agent and may either be broken out or included in cruise fare.

 

Cruises from non US ports are a moot point. We were discussing US based cruises.

 

We were talking about cruises from the States though!

 

>>> From what I can tell, the tax is paid on booking, payable to the country and does not matter where you sail.

 

To which country? The country where the cruise line is based, like the UK, Liberia?

Or the country where the transaction takes place?

 

So that means:

 

Right now, the tax issue is not a benefit to anyone, could be in the future if a state gets greedy.

 

And then the cruise lines that have moveable assets, unlike land based operations can move their ships to different ports/states

 

The state tax issue IS of benefit to us at the moment! No tax is being imposed!

 

>>> True, but in terms of the discussion whether or not to include tips in fare and up wages, since not in effect, not applicable. If a state starts charging it becomes a small benefit (assume 6% of $336 or saves about $20 per cruise)

 

$20? Really?

 

Including hotel charge in fare will still increase travel insurance a little bit

 

Sorry no.

 

Travel insurance total cruise fare cost increase of $336 is negligible.

 

>>> Again, true.. But lets say 6 percent again is the average (varies from 4-10 based on age), so another $20

 

Insuremytrip quotes me $326.40 for a Florida family of four, two mid thirties and two 8 yr olds for a $6500 7 day Caribbean cruise with accidental death, baggage delay or loss, cancel for any reason, cancel for work reasons, evacuation, trip cancellation, and trip interruption.

And $326.40 for the same coverage with a cruise fare of $6836.40.

 

so no increase with the tips included.

 

It MAY make a difference to an individual crewmember depending on how they are contracted.

 

Yes, that is correct.

 

It will mean more interest if you carry a balance on a CC.

 

If you are paying for a cruise on a CC and do not have the funds to pay the CC bill at the end of the cruise, then a $336 increase is not going to bother that person, plus they are probably paying their tips with the CC anyways.

 

There is still some small accounting benefit to DCL.

 

Possibly

 

 

>>> So yes, the benefit to the passenger of breaking out tips is relatively tiny on an individual basis, $20-$40 for a party of 3. That said, with 3000 pax on a ship, the COLLECTIVE benefit is $20 thousand to $40 thousand per cruise.

 

For the crew, IF a crewmember is affected, lets use a steward, and lets say the fee is 10 percent. Right now, with 15 cabins, they get around $180 per day in income from tips (I think somewhere above it was $4 per person per day suggested for the steward). So $1400 of their income is now eligible for fees or $140 per week. That can make quite a difference. If not fee based, of course, its irrelevant. But for even a few members that can make a big change.

 

What proportion of the tipped crew are Filipino?

Apart from that, we've established that there are no non vendor workers on DCL that are not employees.

If they are earning around $5600 a month, that is still $5k a month.

 

The flip side of the argument, other than being a tiny bit easier for passengers, there's really no UPSIDE to bundling tips/hotel charge/whatever into the fare. It's not like pax have to do anything now.

 

So even if the benefit to pax/crew/line is minimal, its still better than the inclusive option.

 

It's better for the staff to get a regular guaranteed wage over getting stiffed by the "we didn't know we were expected to tip" guests, the ones that the most polite and conscientious worker in the world could not please, then ones that didn't like they were served by a "foreigner", the ones that could;t understand a word he said all week.

And the ones that had no intention of tipping when they booked the cruise, because they could remove them and do so.

 

Disney, perhaps more than the other lines can get away with this because they don't compete on price. But bear in mind if Disney was the only non-luxury line to do this, they would find themselves at an even further price competitive disadvantage, unless all lines changed the rules. As they eventually add capacity, this could come much more into play.

I see it as a benefit to have an inclusive cruise, and only tip for bar waiters/waitresses. You opinion is obviously different.

 

 

ex techie

 

massive color errors going on there. not going to fix that tonight after typing this out twice already!

Edited September 17, 2015 by Ex techie

[Loonbeam]

There's pros and cons for either approach, but unless ALL lines change for the reason I stated above, the nutshell is this is the current system, and despite being possibly unpopular, its not a BAD system. There are probably better ways to communicate and handle it, agreed.

 

BTW, Princess out of Australia DOES roll it into the cruise fare, and people there constantly complain about the higher prices they have to pay versus the rest of the world. The net cost is probably about the same (maybe a little higher because Australia is not a tipping culture by nature), but in the end it seems more a matter of perception and preference.

 

Given there is some additional overhead to this method, I am convinced from several levels that the lines have identified this to be the best system to use (otherwise, why bother with distribution, tracking, printing slips, etc)

[Cedricandsophie]

I usually don't tip more. Except at end of cruise if I've gotten to know a certain bartender or barista at the cove cafe. Then I might add 5 or 10 on the last day.