Royal Caribbean Fights Back!

[kenf333]

Greg Layer: And I looked at them and I said, ‘Hey, you guys , you better get in there because that room is trashed.’ That’s exactly what I said and then they sort of gave me the 'hi' sign. They didn’t say anything.

 

The cruise line confirms they were ship’s security officers responding to the noise complaint Clete Hyman made just after 4 a.m.

With the offending loud party now over, Royal Caribbean says the uniformed men left without entering the Smith cabin.

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This is one of the things I was looking for, the comments for George to settle down, both neighbors report there was some activity in the cabin, not sure if it may have been at the time he came back to his cabin (and changed his shirt) when they all were going to look for JHS or after when he was brought back by the group for the last time that night.

 

The other is at the end of this section when the other neighbors, by this report indicating the cruiseline staff did not enter the room when they came to check on the noise from the Hyman complaint. I'd like to reference this account with what the cruiseline said. Did they go into the room following the noise complaint, or not.

 

The timing of all of these events are so tightly intertwined it's incredible.

 

From everything I have read they did not enter the room following the complaint, however in one article the retired police officer claims that he spoke to security, and in another the Mr. Layer did. Niether Mr. Layer nor the police officer indicated the secound time security knocked and then entered the room looking for Mr. Smith, after Mrs. Smith was found. This is odd because it was only a few moments after they were there the first time. Also when security entered the room looking for Mr. Smith they indicated the bed was neatly made, however Josh stated while he was in the bathroom the russians tucked GS in.

[Barky]

....and I think it's so tight that if Josh was still in the bathroom, which I think he might have been, that he may have been in there when JHS was brought back to the cabin in the wheelchair.

 

I am also going to explore the soft nosies that were heard, were those of the crew inside the cabin after bringing JHS back to the cabin.

 

Finely is on the case! I think it is certainly possible that the crew was the cause of the soft noises. They certainly would have no reason to be loud but since there were several of them and they did verbally check her status again before leaving it makes perfect sense to me.

 

I'm putting off shovelling snow so provide me with some more food for thought, LOL.

[FinelyCruising]

OK. EBFURR indicates that on Greta they said they checked the bathroom when they brought JHS back to the room. If so, then I have to take Josh out of the bathroom at the point in time when they brought her back. BUT, they were not 'looking' for George at this time, so I need to read the Greta report and settle how this detail laid out.

[FinelyCruising]

P.S....At least you can have something interesting to ponder while you are shoveling....we got a little bit here too. Not alot, but it is bitter cold from the wind.

[kenf333]

OK. EBFURR indicates that on Greta they said they checked the bathroom when they brought JHS back to the room. If so, then I have to take Josh out of the bathroom at the point in time when they brought her back. BUT, they were not 'looking' for George at this time, so I need to read the Greta report and settle how this detail laid out.

 

Ok, if (which in the RCCI statement they said they did)security went to the room looking for GS to assist his wife back to the room wouldn't they look on the balcony, and check the bathroom, if the door was closed?

[Barky]

P.S....At least you can have something interesting to ponder while you are shoveling....we got a little bit here too. Not alot, but it is bitter cold from the wind.

 

It seems we are in the same state--no wonder why your weather sounded like mine, LOL.

[Barky]

Ok, if (which in the RCCI statement they said they did)security went to the room looking for GS to assist his wife back to the room wouldn't they look on the balcony, and check the bathroom, if the door was closed?

 

One would hope they would have been thorough...

[FinelyCruising]

Yes, I would suppose they would.

 

Thinking out loud...

 

We know George was looking for her at some point, so is it possible it was in that very tight period of time when no one was there when they were looking for him for his assistance, and JHS was then brought back to the cabin?

 

JHS and her attorney indicate that JHS was unconscious. Now I wonder how long it took the crew who fpund her to know who she was and what cabin she belonged in. So from the moment they found her, how long did it take the crew to determine who she was, where she belonged, go to the room and find George, get back and report, find a wheelchair, and then get her back to the room.

 

So what came first?

[shirleygr]

Does anyone recall if they did in fact find his blood in the cabin?

I read somewhere--no idea where at this point--a bloody towel and kleenex were found in the cabin, spawning the theory of a nosebleed, or possibly bleeding knuckles from punching something (someone?).

Unfortunately, my first serious relationship was with a very abusive, alcoholic man who did things like shouting to himself and throwing things around when he was heavily drinking. It is therefore not hard for me to imagine George being out of control, incredibly inebriated, slamming drawers, throwing things around, possibly hurting himself, etc. I am still leaning towards an accident and the others reacting in panic, but I don't think we have enough facts to make any real conclusion. But it is still very interesting to speculate and read what everyone else thinks too.

[kenf333]

Yes, I would suppose they would.

 

Thinking out loud...

 

We know George was looking for her at some point, so is it possible it was in that very tight period of time when no one was there when they were looking for him for his assistance, and JHS was then brought back to the cabin?

 

JHS and her attorney indicate that JHS was unconscious. Now I wonder how long it took the crew who fpund her to know who she was and what cabin she belonged in. So from the moment they found her, how long did it take the crew to determine who she was, where she belonged, go to the room and find George, get back and report, find a wheelchair, and then get her back to the room.

 

So what came first?

 

Not real long, here is a part from RCCL statement

 

Shortly after 4:30 a.m., Mrs. Hagel Smith was found sleeping on the floor of a corridor on the other side of the ship and a significant distance from her cabin. Security was notified and arrived shortly thereafter. As several ship personnel remained with Mrs. Smith, two crewmembers went to her cabin at 4:48 a.m. to see if anyone was there to assist in her return. They knocked and, not getting a response, looked inside the cabin, found it empty and saw nothing amiss. While the crewmembers were still outside the Smith cabin, the guest in the other adjoining cabin looked out his cabin door, complained about the earlier noise, and reportedly advised crewmembers to enter the cabin. However, they had already opened the door and seen nothing amiss.

 

Mrs. Hagel Smith was taken back to her cabin by wheelchair at 4:57 a.m. by two security guards and a female supervisor. She was placed on top of her bed and asked if she was all right. She answered that she was okay, and the security personnel left the room. George Smith was not present, and nothing appeared amiss.

 

 

Then thump that was heard was around 4:20 am and security was there about the noise complaint around 4:25/4:30.

[Barky]

Yes, I would suppose they would.

 

Thinking out loud...

 

We know George was looking for her at some point, so is it possible it was in that very tight period of time when no one was there when they were looking for him for his assistance, and JHS was then brought back to the cabin?

 

JHS and her attorney indicate that JHS was unconscious. Now I wonder how long it took the crew who fpund her to know who she was and what cabin she belonged in. So from the moment they found her, how long did it take the crew to determine who she was, where she belonged, go to the room and find George, get back and report, find a wheelchair, and then get her back to the room.

 

So what came first?

 

Either I am not fully awake yet but I am having trouble understanding the first question.

 

As to the second statement it was reported she was found at 4:30 and she was back in the room at 4:47. They used walkie talkies and met up with the wheelchair half way down the corridor. I suppose they used the walkie talkies to determine who she was from her sea pass card unless the room number or a portion of the number was on there?

 

George and the posse were looking for her somewhere between 3:30 and 4:00 if I recall correctly?

[FinelyCruising]

Shortly after 4:30 a.m., Mrs. Hagel Smith was found sleeping on the floor of a corridor on the other side of the ship and a significant distance from her cabin. Security was notified and arrived shortly thereafter. As several ship personnel remained with Mrs. Smith, two crewmembers went to her cabin at 4:48 a.m. to see if anyone was there to assist in her return. They knocked and, not getting a response, looked inside the cabin, found it empty and saw nothing amiss. While the crewmembers were still outside the Smith cabin, the guest in the other adjoining cabin looked out his cabin door, complained about the earlier noise, and reportedly advised crewmembers to enter the cabin. However, they had already opened the door and seen nothing amiss.

 

 

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This is from the cruiseline statement, and it sounds like when they went to look for George to help Jennifer, they may not have checked the bathroom and looked on the balcony.

 

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Mrs. Hagel Smith was taken back to her cabin by wheelchair at 4:57 a.m. by two security guards and a female supervisor. She was placed on top of her bed and asked if she was all right. She answered that she was okay, and the security personnel left the room. George Smith was not present, and nothing appeared amiss.

[Barky]

Not real long, here is a part from RCCL statement

 

Shortly after 4:30 a.m., Mrs. Hagel Smith was found sleeping on the floor of a corridor on the other side of the ship and a significant distance from her cabin. Security was notified and arrived shortly thereafter. As several ship personnel remained with Mrs. Smith, two crewmembers went to her cabin at 4:48 a.m. to see if anyone was there to assist in her return. They knocked and, not getting a response, looked inside the cabin, found it empty and saw nothing amiss. While the crewmembers were still outside the Smith cabin, the guest in the other adjoining cabin looked out his cabin door, complained about the earlier noise, and reportedly advised crewmembers to enter the cabin. However, they had already opened the door and seen nothing amiss.

 

Mrs. Hagel Smith was taken back to her cabin by wheelchair at 4:57 a.m. by two security guards and a female supervisor. She was placed on top of her bed and asked if she was all right. She answered that she was okay, and the security personnel left the room. George Smith was not present, and nothing appeared amiss.

 

 

Then thump that was heard was around 4:20 am and security was there about the noise complaint around 4:25/4:30.

 

Ignore the post following your post. Your info. is much better!

 

In reading this I surmise the crew merely opened the door looked in, saw noone and decided the room was empty. I suspect there was no balcony or bathroom checking at all.

[Barky]

I still want to know why George changed his shirt before looking for Jennifer. Did he have an nosebleed and got some blood on his other shirt???

[FinelyCruising]

The RCCL statement does not indicate what time they went to the cabin to investigate the noise complaint, just that it was called in at 4:05 and they responded. Will look futher to see if I can find the time.

[FinelyCruising]

I still want to know why George changed his shirt before looking for Jennifer. Did he have an nosebleed and got some blood on his other shirt???

 

Good thinking! Maybe something like that!

[cruisingirl53]

Sorry about butting in but.....

 

Just in case anyone is interested... I just checked Oprah's web site & found out her show about this will be aired on Wednesday Jan 18th.

They say there are new witness & the President of RCCI will be on the first time meeting JHS. Should be a good show to see.

[Barky]

Sorry about butting in but.....

 

Just in case anyone is interested... I just checked Oprah's web site & found out her show about this will be aired on Wednesday Jan 18th.

They say there are new witness & the President of RCCI will be on the first time meeting JHS. Should be a good show to see.

 

Thanks. I knew the show was going to be on but didn't know about the new witnesses!

[FinelyCruising]

Chief Hyman’s cabin was right next door to the Smiths’ on deck 9. And what he heard through their common wall from a few minutes after 4 a.m. until 4:20 or so, is a primary piece of evidence in the investigation now underway into George Smith’s disappearance.

 

For a few minutes the next door cabin quieted down, male voices in normal conversation, the chief couldn’t for the most part make out words or subjects.

Hyman:

This went on for a period of time. And then we heard what sounded like arguing out on the balcony.

Murphy:

Arguing?

Hyman:

Yes. Several couple of male voices arguing. It wasn’t a physical confrontation. It was just like they were arguing over some type of point.

Murphy:

So after you heard these voices on the balcony part of the cabin, what happened next?

Hyman:

Well, then I heard a voice just repeatedly say "goodnight" and my first assumption was that someone was trying to usher these people that were arguing out of the cabin. In fact, you could hear the progression through the cabin...

Now it was about 4:15 in the morning. Chief Hyman heard the adjacent cabin door open and voices receding in the hallway.

 

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The noise complaint was made at 4:05, by 4:15 it appears to me security still had not been at the room, so it seems to me it was at some point after that Security did get to the cabin for the noise complaint, since they said they responded to it, but when? The neighbor spoke with Security, but when? At 4:48 staff was was at the cabin, again, this time looking for George while security stayed with his wife and put her back in her room at 4:57.

[FinelyCruising]

We think we know George is in the cabin at 4 am. We assume he used his key card to unlock the door to his cabin and was escorted back as Josh described. We know at 4:48 am he is not in it.

[Barky]

I believe security arrived at the room for the noise complaint somewhere between 4:20 and 4:30. Too bad they didn't meet up with the other people coming to the room and compare notes, LOL.

[kenf333]

The noise complaint was made at 4:05, by 4:15 it appears to me security still had not been at the room, so it seems to me it was at some point after that Security did get to the cabin for the noise complaint, since they said they responded to it, but when? The neighbor spoke with Security, but when? At 4:48 staff was was at the cabin, again, this time looking for George while security stayed with his wife and put her back in her room at 4:57.

 

Greg Laywer: And these there were maybe a series of shuffles and bangs against the wall. And then it ended with one big thud like somebody had picked up the couch or the sofa and threw it against the wall. And then that occurred, it was maybe a stretch of like two minutes, something like that, where these thuds took place, what I call trashing the room and then it went quiet.

After the awful thud, both the deputy chief and the couple heard a knocks— two sets of raps on the Smith cabin door about 4:30 a.m.

Greg Lawyer, curious, opened the door to see two uniformed ship personnel standing outside the Smith cabin.

[FinelyCruising]

We are assuming then that Greg Lawyer saw the personnel investigating the noise complaint at 4:30, and not the staff looking for George to help Jennifer.

 

If that is a fact, and this is why the timeline is so tight, then personnel were at the cabin again, 17 minutes later.

 

Security staff was involved in two separate events where that cabin was the common demoninator, in the span of 17 minutes.

[kenf333]

We are assuming then that Greg Lawyer saw the personnel investigating the noise complaint at 4:30, and not the staff looking for George to help Jennifer.

 

If that is a fact, and this is why the timeline is so tight, then personnel were at the cabin again, 17 minutes later.

 

Security staff was involved in two separate events where that cabin was the common demoninator, in the span of 17 minutes.

 

This is from RCCL statement

(two crewmembers went to her cabin at 4:48 a.m)

 

Interesting, and I also read somewhere that it was the same two security people.

[Barky]

We are assuming then that Greg Lawyer saw the personnel investigating the noise complaint at 4:30, and not the staff looking for George to help Jennifer.

 

If that is a fact, and this is why the timeline is so tight, then personnel were at the cabin again, 17 minutes later.

 

Security staff was involved in two separate events where that cabin was the common demoninator, in the span of 17 minutes.

 

Yes, but according to the portion of the cruise statement you posted earlier it says 2 crewmembers went to the room to look for George after finding Jennifer. Security had been alerted of her finding but it doesn't actually say it was security going to the room the second time.