Royal Caribbean Fights Back!

[1corona4u]

Not taking either side here, but let's face it folks, if George were a family member or even a friend etc., of someone from RCI do you really think that room, balcony, entire ship would have operated on the same protocol? I doubt it. That ship would have been held up indefintely. Yes I am a RCCL guest (over 10 cruises with them) but I do have to say I'm skeptical about the so called thorough evidence investigation.

 

I disagree. They had some 2500 other passengers that they had to fulfill an obligation to. We don't know what all the Turk's did. Why would it have been important to stay there? If JS, and the Smith's were so concerned about it, then why didn't JS just stay there, and the Smith's fly over...there was no other reason to stay. If they had, they'd still be sitting there.

[kenf333]

I disagree. They had some 2500 other passengers that they had to fulfill an obligation to. We don't know what all the Turk's did. Why would it have been important to stay there? If JS, and the Smith's were so concerned about it, then why didn't JS just stay there, and the Smith's fly over...there was no other reason to stay. If they had, they'd still be sitting there.

 

I agree, if anything else was need the ship would have not moved.

[lilbit]

I meant, I do not think they would have been content with a 2 hour investigation. Look at how long it takes detectives to investigate an ordinary case on land. Way more than 2 hours. No matter what the circumstance may be; drinking, partying, misconduct, etc., I know if it were someone I cherished, I would certainly not be satisfied and convinced that all the evidence was gathered up. I think we need to look at this somewhat as though (God forbid) it had happened to us, how would we feel and how would we deal with our loss?

[kenf333]

I meant, I do not think they would have been content with a 2 hour investigation. Look at how long it takes detectives to investigate an ordinary case on land. Way more than 2 hours. No matter what the circumstance may be; drinking, partying, misconduct, etc., I know if it were someone I cherished, I would certainly not be satisfied and convinced that all the evidence was gathered up. I think we need to look at this somewhat as though (God forbid) it had happened to us, how would we feel and how would we deal with our loss?

 

The stateroom was sealed for a week or two, FBI did board and remove the carpet at a later date. That being said the crime scene was protected.

[1corona4u]

I meant, I do not think they would have been content with a 2 hour investigation. Look at how long it takes detectives to investigate an ordinary case on land. Way more than 2 hours.

 

Keep in mind that they know a whole lot more than any of us do. Maybe the Turk's know it was an acciddent, despite all of our suspiscions and speculations. Maybe the FBI is just trying to confirm that. Maybe the Turk's just do things differently than we do.

 

Who knows, but I think it's unreasonable to suggest that the ship should have just sat there until this was resolved, and that is the impression I get from the Smith's.

[azbirdz]

You're right -- perhaps we would react differently --- For example, if it were me, I wouldn't have left Turkey that night -- I would have been bugging them. But I wouldn't think that the Captain of a cruise ship should countermand the directions/approval/whatever of the law enforcement authorities who did the investigation (albeit by 'their' standards, not necessarily US --but RCL did get clearance from the FBI and consulate) to leave. So, IMHO JHS can't have it both ways -- 'THEY" should have done more, but oh well, I needed to get home to Daddy. I think JHS accusations at RCL are just 'noise' and they mask the real questions that we all keep asking -- as noted on other posts (far more eloquently than I can ask them).

 

As a side note -- could she have taken the word "Officers" (as in "you will be accompanied by . . .) to mean Security -- as opposed to a paramilitary meaning as in Ship's Officers? That may be why she is so adamant about this (and refers to her escort as a Customer Relations (?) person).

[wolfganghowell]

Can't wait to get home and watch even though it sounds like more of the same from her. And many of us from experience know that alcohol can hit really fast - if she seemed fine at 2:30 she was found drunk 2 hours later. I've been told by friends that one minute I was fine, the next I was a fool. And I've said that to friends. that doesn't really change my opinion of her behavior. The sea pass account would show the alcohol consumption - excluding the alleged absinthe drinking.

 

I agree - no one is asking this woman and his parents the tough questions. Yes they have a right to grieve. But when you throw around criminal accusations you need to back them up. The general public who doesn't know much about cruising can be influenced by bad information. These "reporters" are not asking the tough questions because they know if they pi$$ them off, they won't come back on their show.

 

Where's the ethical standards of journalism? So far Greta is the only one acting like a real reporter IMO.

[shirleygr]

shirley, my take of Dr. Lee (aka Mr. Moto) is that he is a "hired gun" who is told what the outcome wanted is, and then who develops theories and facts to support his clients desired outcome. The fact that his actions do occasional good does not make him someone I would trust. Think of it this way, an assassin will on occasion kill a bad guy...does that make the assassin a good guy (err ethical)..not to my way of thinking.

 

He was hired by DW's attorney for a reason...given what we know of that attorney is there any doubt how the selection process was handled?? Now Dr. Lee may have made enough money off of OJ to just do good works (kinda like Ken Lay and Enron), but he also may be paid big bucks for the anticapated outcome (contingent fee or otherwise).

If you ever get the chance to watch Dr Lee's show on court tv, I think your opinion of him may change. I do not believe he would interpret the evidence in an unethical manner. That is just my opinion and you are entitled to yours. One of the things that makes these boards great.

[Barefoot_Pirate]

I love it when she complains about RCCL sending the bill for "George's" room (aka sea pass), like she had nothing to do with it. Not our bill, but George's bill. Guess that's her way of telling RCCL to go collect it from the fish.

 

Also, she has been doing social drinking, but has a complete black out from the time they leave the casino.... guess her social circle is a little different from mine.

 

I think she's a hoot....gotta love her ability to ignore reality.

 

Why does the term "high maintenance" come to mind.

[NYDee]

Being Canadian, I don't know the process to "get a congressional hearing". Is that similar to our Coroner's Inquest or something totally different.

 

No. It is more like a hearing, not an inquest) before the parliament where the congressmen ask questions of her.

[rcicruiser]

Finally a voice of reason. Thank you

 

All these RCI Kool AID drinking fanatics fail to see any blame on RCI

 

They kick dirt on a dead man, his family and his wife

 

 

That is because the blame does rest partly with George and Jennifer Smith for their actions on the ship.

 

It does not matter who was missing from the ship they had 2000 other passengers on the ship to consider.

 

The family has to stop with all their misinformation.

 

It is hard to believe anything they say now.

[shirleygr]

As I stated last night, I did some research today to answer the question of whether George came from a wealthy family or not. The only article I could find was from the Greenwich Times from 2003, celebrating 70 years of their liquor store, Cos Cob Liquors. From my reading of this article, it would appear the Smiths are not from "old money." But it really doesn't address this point directly. As for the Smiths knowing Shays, apprarently they are aquainted from a time when Shays' election headquarters was located in the same shopping center. I apologize for having mis-represented the Smith's situation.

I post the article below:

"Liquor store marks its 70th year"

December 31, 2003

As the year comes to an end, so passes an important milestone for one of Greenwich's oldest stores.

 

This year marked the 70th anniversary of Cos Cob Liquor Store, the oldest liquor store in Greenwich and one of the few still standing that opened just as Prohibition was repealed in December 1933.

 

At the time, Frank and Pauline Schmidel had just opened a delicatessen on the Post Road in the center of Cos Cob. With the repeal, the pair saw opportunity and turned their deli into a liquor store.

 

Today, the adult beverage retailer is in the hands of George Smith, who purchased Cos Cob Liquor in 1981. His is the second family to own Cos Cob Liquor. And the store will remain in the Smith family for at least another generation as Smith's 25-year son, George Smith Jr., has come on board with the intention of eventually taking over the reins.

 

It was a tough start, said Smith, 56, who, with his wife, Maureen, struggled to build their newly acquired business back in the early 1980s. Soon after buying the package store, the Mianus River Bridge collapsed, a devastating blow to Cos Cob- area retailers. Then, in December 1984, just as the pair was gearing up for what they hoped would be a profitable Christmas, a fire ravaged the entire Food Mart shopping complex, including the liquor store.

 

George Smith took a job at the Cos Cob's Center Hardware Store to pay the bills as the Food Mart complex was being rebuilt. Despite knowing that their fire losses far exceeded the original investment, the Smiths decided to persevere and give the store another go, George Smith said.

 

"We were devastated for a while," said Maureen Smith, who continues to work in the store during the busy holiday season.

 

It was the customers that kept the couple's spirit up. Like many mom-and-pop stores at the time, Cos Cob Liquor gave many customers house charge accounts. But all the paperwork had been lost in the fire, George Smith said.

 

Smith said he got phone calls from customers saying, "We know our bills burnt down, but we want to pay you," he said.

 

Not knowing how much they actually owed, people just started sending cash, Smith said. "That's how nice people are."

 

Two years after the fire, Cos Cob Liquor reopened and the Smiths began to rebuild the business. It was a two-person show for a while, Maureen Smith said, recalling how she and her husband would feed their two children dinner at the store, help them with their homework and then stock the shelves until midnight.

 

Business began to take off when Smith started discounting products.

 

"We started growing and we have been growing ever since," Smith said.

 

Being part of the Food Mart shopping complex helped a great deal because people shopped for groceries and then came in to pick up a bottle of wine for dinner. As customer traffic increased, Smith decided to turn Cos Cob Liquor into a deep discount store.

 

"We have more than 200 items at the state's minimum price," he said.

 

And on a busy Saturday, 200 to 250 customers walk through the store's doors, said store manager Tom Prackup.

 

Wine also has transformed the business, Smith said. Today, about 70 percent of sales come from wine. The store carries wines from all over the world, with a strong emphasis on California.

 

The Smiths are now bracing for another change, which started with the state Legislature passing a law this summer allowing package stores to stay open until 9 p.m., an hour later than permitted for the past four decades.

 

The change has sparked debate over whether to allow alcohol sales on Sunday. Neither the extended hours nor Sunday sales are something Smith supports.

 

"I don't like having people work on Sundays," Smith said. And to be open seven days a week means hiring another person, he added.

 

"You almost have to do it because of competition," Smith said. "We already discussed making it work. We are kind of sure it will happen."

 

The Smiths are not alone in their distaste for the possible change.

 

"Most of our members are against Sunday sales. We feel we will lose sales to grocery stores," said Stephen Downes, president of the Connecticut Package Store Association.

 

Most package stores are smaller operations and being opened seven days will be a hardship for many store owners, Downes said. Most owners will be forced to hire extra help and will have to be there seven versus six days.

 

Thursday, Friday and Saturday are big selling days, Downes said. "If stores are open on Sunday, it won't make much of a difference."

 

The Smith family is preparing to embrace some changes. The younger Smith, who has an Internet marketing background, wants to computerize the store and inventory.

 

He's already revamped the store's Web site and 10 percent of the store's Christmas sales came from Internet purchases this year, George Smith Jr. said.

 

The store received Internet orders from as far away as Malaysia, with people sending bottles of wine and other liquors to clients, family and friends in the area, he said.

 

So what does an old-school dad think about his son's plans to take the 70-year business into the 21st century?

 

"It is quite exciting," Smith said.

 

But as the younger Smith prepares to take over the business, the elder Smith isn't ready to completely let go of the store he literally built from the ground up.

 

"I am starting to slow down," he said. "But I will always probably have my nose in it."

 

Copyright © 2004, Southern Connecticut Newspapers, Inc.

[DandyCandy]

Oprah is covering this story right now and has the widow and the vice president on.

[shirleygr]

Oprah is covering this story right now and has the widow and the vice president on.

Watching, too. Be back later.

[budaman]

Haven't seen today's show, but have the DVR going.....read the synopsis on the website and doesn't appear to be anything new other than the 'friends' I do have one question though that I have seen nothing on......where is Jennifer's family in all this or does she not have any? I would think that if my daughter was getting all this scrutiny and her new husbands family had given her the cold shoulder, I would be somewhat visible and supportive.

 

Mike

 

http://www.homepage.mac.com/csealove/

[Barefoot_Pirate]

ts, sorry that facts don't support your emotions. I don't think that RCCL would have done it any differently if one of their own had been involved, and I for one would not expect it if DH was my family member.

 

They did 100% of what they were required to do, plus 100% of what they thougth they should do, plus 98% of what a plaintiff's attorney can dream up as points of potential monetary claims. Not shabby. The FBI is doing the investigation and in part elected to rely on the Turks to do some of the work, they had an agent in the area of Turkey stop his vacation and become the agent at the scene. Now if you don't like what RCCL did, then you need charge the FBI and Turkey first with failure to do their jobs, and then the worst you can charge RCCL with is following the instructions of both the FBI and Turkey.

 

This stopped being about George a long time ago, and is about DW trying to divert attention from herself, family wanting to protect son's memory, lawyer's and consultants money, TV trying to gather eyeballs (ad revenues), etc. IMHO

[abridalmaven]

In have a different perspective, we had a friend's son DIE on a cruise, the NCL Dawn. He died of a heart attack ( after autopsy ) but was found slumped in the commode. Of course no one knew at the time what he died of, and this was in PORT CANAVERAL, a US port. They held the ship for only 2 hours beyong our departure time ,and that was incuding the time they tried to resuscitate him and remove the body from the ship. Ok it happened about an hour before we had to leave, and they did seal off the entire floor and the room was sealed during that time. But after our friend was taken off the ship, the room was not quarantined at all. And the Authorities were there doing an investigation so what happened on the ship is not all that unusual, they do get the ship back on it's way really fast even in the US.

 

And when I was at an office party during the holidays I had about 2-3 drinks ( one a cosmo) I felt fine, left the bar anf went off to finish my shopping. About 45 minutes later all of a sudden I felt awful, and drunk. I had to sit down, have something to eat before I could even walk anymore. I did stay in the mall another 2 hours becasue I did not want to drive the way I felt and risk a DWI. So yes you can look and feel sober, and it will hit you later.

 

And if she is convinced she was drugged ( which I do not belive for one moment) why did she not requst a drug test? And if they feel it was out if her system ( nothing leaves that fast) then have her HAIR tested, that is how they determine if kids are on drugs.

 

So As I sit here watching her lie her head off on Oprah. I have never seen anyone lie as much as she is. I worked in a mental institution and met patients who are pathological liars who were less dead panned than she is now. Come on, I get more upset over my dead dogs than she is now. A dab with a tissue here and there just does not cut it. I am seeing a spoiled "daddies little girl".

[1corona4u]

So far, I see nothing that changes my mind about what RCI did, and what they should have done...as I said many post ago, this had never happened to them....which is totally understandable, to me anyway.

[Ethel5]

I'm watching Oprah right now and all I can think of is that Jennifer is a spoiled brat. She doesn't show one smidgen of sincere emotion. No one will ever know what really happened that night due to her lies. I think she will end up being a rich widow after she sues the cruise line. Easy money. I feel for the president of RCCL having to deal with her. She has her stories and answers down pat-was she coached by a high powered lawyer? Like many other liars before her, she can get all choked up with no tears in sight-reminds me of the Sabrina Eisenberg case!

[kenf333]

So far, I see nothing that changes my mind about what RCI did, and what they should have done...as I said many post ago, this had never happened to them....which is totally understandable, to me anyway.

 

Very well said, as poeple and company's learn from expirences. Will they do things differently in the future based on this it sounds like they may.

[MILEMRKR63]

Oprah was so right what she said at the end of the show. Oprah said that since so much emphasis by the widow and the press is spent on what RCCL did vs. didnt do, that the actual tragedy of the victim gets put to the side of the story.

 

How sad is that.

[caviargal]

I am listening in from my office.

 

I know Adam Goldstein from a cruise with RCI a few years ago and I think he is handling this well today under difficult circumstances.

 

Honestly, I am not impressed with the demands of Jennifer that RCI should have done more. Her insistences that they should have spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to keep the ship in port in Turkey and and fly everyone else home at their expense, rendering everyone else's vacation compromised, I find unreasonable. The ship was cleared to depart by those that were responsible for making that decision.

 

Jennifer keeps referring to Mr. Lee, a known forensics expert, about what should have and could have been done. RCI acted as the authorities instructed and I believe to the best of their ability given the situation. They listened to law enforcement and this is what they should have done. Had they made decisions contrary to the authorities instructions, I imagine Jennifer would be incensed about that.

 

I have cruised a lot and observed some really awful behavior on ships. It is quite frankly amazing that there are not more instances of missing people. Excessive drinking is not uncommon and can lead to problems, on land or at sea.

 

It seems to me that RCI did the best job they could have under the circumstances

[Barefoot_Pirate]

maven, my take is that "heart attacks" are common, as are dead passangers. I've been told that when they have a seniors sort of crowd, that they expect a death or two...when at sea they simply put the body on ice...next to the fish for that night no doubt.:D

 

I hate to sound heartless, but we are born, we live, and then we die. It happens and when you get thousands of folks being more active than normal... But hey, when I leave this world, I hope it is on a cruise...just dump me over and I'll keep George company.

[Cruising89143]

I just finished watching Oprah and this was also the first time that I had actually watched the bride and I must say that I was surprised by her attitude during the show. It seemed as though it was all about me, me, me. I really never saw her that upset over the loss of her husband. I still say that she knows more than she is letting on.

 

As far as RCI, unless more is shown I still feel that RCI did everything possible during that day. As Adam Goldstein commented, this was a first and no it wasn't perfect but they did the best that they could considering the circumstances. What good would it have done to send the passengers home and keep the ship in Turkey? The body went missing while the ship was at sea.

[byefairwind]

She was really well coached for her appearance on Oprah. Her alibi is perfect. I don't remember anything until the part about RCI not doing this, this and this. Loved how she quickly came out with RCI has insurance to cover the cost of the ship staying in Turkey. She's prepping for a big civil suit.

 

I missed a few minutes of it - what was the part about being estranged from the in-laws?