Royal Caribbean Fights Back!

[1corona4u]

What would have happened if it started to rain sometime between the time George allegedly went over the side and the ship docked in Turkey -

 

Sure would have spoiled the evidence then and poor JHS would have no one to blame but the almighty hisself

 

Herman, you're in CT....what do people think up there? Any difference from those of us in other parts?

[Hazen]

Thanks for help with the link. From the Congressional testimony of the parents ..... George Smith's parents, Maureen and George A. Smith III, and sister, Bree Smith, also submitted testimony, accusing the cruise line of covering up what happened to Smith because a crew member may have been involved in Smith's demise.

 

"Our family broke off communication with Royal Caribbean on July 6 after Bree feared we had a conflict of interest with the company given that a crew member was implicated in a witness statement taken by Turkish police and provided to us by the American Embassy in Ankara, Turkey," they said in their written testimony. "This was the beginning of a comprehensive cover-up that would shock and nearly destroy our family." Was this LLoyd? Why would he be involved unless JHS was as well? Yet they are sitting with her at this Congressional hearing? Lloyd's connection to this story is only his link thru JHS. What did the family believe on July 6? The cover-up is that the RCCL employee may be implicated because a witness said their new daughter-in-law was not with George because she was with him. Very selectively edited story on their part. This is my frustration with the family"s dialogue with the public.

[1corona4u]

Wow...there is a post in that link that is from a friend of George's, and he has some not so nice things to say about Jen. He also stated that George was a heavy drinker, and that it does not suprise him that George and Jen fought on the cruise....

" Yes, while he was no angel and the stories of his hard partying and arguments with Jennifer do not surprise me at all"........

 

Goes by the name of search4truth........gotta read his post....the others, I don't believe all that they have said...they seem to have gathered their information from various sources, and some of them, I think, are heresay.

[Fury1995]

I'm still focused on Josh. He doesn't add up in this whole thing.

[MszKitty]

Corona

 

I repeat, you really have to get a life. I have watched the TV shows too, but you write as if this is taking over your life. I pity you.

 

SunshineCity....

 

Why does it bother you so much how much time and effort other people spend on this subject? Is it harming you in any way? Obviously, you must be just as curious or interested too, or you wouldn't know how much certain people are posting.

 

I, for one, am enjoying reading everyone's theory. It is like reading a great mystery novel.

[FinelyCruising]

I'm still focused on Josh. He doesn't add up in this whole thing.

 

I am anxious to learn more about Josh and the others myself. I had read in some earlier accounts that he seemed pretty emphatic that he was not going to let Jen go to jail. I beleive that was something he repeated. I am not too sure yet about the comments concerning 'did they find blood' during that we think he may have gone overboard conversation. I guess if it was me I'd question too what may have been found to convince the cruiseline he went overboard. Seems to me a 3 or 4 hours of a missing person does not immediately leap to man overboard without some real good reason. Could have just been a simple and reasonable question for him to ask at the time.

[ILoveScotland]

"I, for one, am enjoying reading everyone's theory. It is like reading a great mystery novel."

Mszkitty and others, I've had moments when I had similar feelings to those of SunShineCity. Then I realize I'm reading each post and even writing my own occasionally.

So, in the end, I agree. It really is like reading a great mystery novel, and I can hardly wait for the next chapter.:D

[Fury1995]

I am anxious to learn more about Josh and the others myself. I had read in some earlier accounts that he seemed pretty emphatic that he was not going to let Jen go to jail. I beleive that was something he repeated. I am not too sure yet about the comments concerning 'did they find blood' during that we think he may have gone overboard conversation. I guess if it was me I'd question too what may have been found to convince the cruiseline he went overboard. Seems to me a 3 or 4 hours of a missing person does not immediately leap to man overboard without some real good reason. Could have just been a simple and reasonable question for him to ask at the time.

 

More speculation here....(if Josh had been at least present when GH went over). I haven't personally had a side balcony on a Radiance class ship, but I pose the question: Can you see down to the canopy at night? Or anything on the canopy?

 

If Josh indeed inquired about whether blood was found, would it be because he was guessing himself? Or because he forgot the canopy was there?

 

I don't know what cabin he was staying in, but only some of the balconies toward the middle of the ship have the "canopy view". If his cabin was not one of the canopy view balconies like the Smiths, he may have forgotten about the canopy outside the Smiths cabin and it being an "obstacle" when something is tossed over until later when the investigation began. Then the "uh-oh" button in his head goes off.

 

Just a thought...

[1corona4u]

More speculation here....(if Josh had been at least present when GH went over). I haven't personally had a side balcony on a Radiance class ship, but I pose the question: Can you see down to the canopy at night? Or anything on the canopy?

 

If Josh indeed inquired about whether blood was found, would it be because he was guessing himself? Or because he forgot the canopy was there?

 

I don't know what cabin he was staying in, but only some of the balconies toward the middle of the ship have the "canopy view". If his cabin was not one of the canopy view balconies like the Smiths, he may have forgotten about the canopy outside the Smiths cabin and it being an "obstacle" when something is tossed over until later when the investigation began. Then the "uh-oh" button in his head goes off.

 

Just a thought...

 

I had thought about this too. It's the reason I ruled out a crew member, because they would have known that there was a canopy there, thus, not a straight shot to the water.

 

And I really thought, that even if none of the people who hung around with the Smith's had a balcony, I thought that they, at some point, would have been on the Smith's balcony(well, we know they were that night)and would have seen down the side of the ship....even though it's dark out there at night, you can still see it, as there are lights on the sides of the Radiance class ships. Unless they were off?

 

I have a gut feeling that Josh's room was in the vicinity though....think he was the 3rd person who was originally missing.....but then they found him getting off the ship. Here's a comment by Josh's attorney that makes me think that;

 

 

"GREER: Next morning, they‘re waking up, 7:15 in the morning or so, getting ready for a family tour off the boat. He actually heard George Smith being paged, and went out to the hallway, and advised his statesman, the attendant there for his room, you might have somebody go knock on George‘s door. He‘d been drinking a lot that night; he might not be waking up and responding to that page. Then he went on with his business to get ready for the tour and head off the boat with his family."

 

Sounds to me like they were in the same hallway by the verbiage, and maybe even had the same cabin steward. If he was on another floor, he might have said that Josh went Up/down there and... but said, "he went OUT TO the hallway"......

 

Ok, here's a question. If the chair was pushed up against the railing, how would someone use that to leverage throwing a body over? I can't grasp how that would work.

 

And also.......

 

If he was thrown over by someone, or a couple of them, that's still a lot of weight to get up and over that rail, as it's about 3 1/2 ft.-4 ft. tall. more so, if it's dead weight.

 

If he was injured in the cabin or on the balcony, why wasn't there blood on the balcony? You know Clete would have seen that, after all, he's got a trained detective eye, right?:rolleyes:

 

If someone walked out there, and helped him over, where are their footprints?

 

According to Josh's attorney, Jennifer left with the Casino manager, from the lounge at 3:15. So someone is lying, as RCI said she was seen getitng off on her floor, and going the wrong way. And something I have never understood, in either of my cruises on RCI, did I see ANY crew out and about in any of the bars, stores, or anything. Isn't that forbidden?? I just don't think he was even with them in the disco.

 

If he's telling the truth though, about them all going to one of the other guy's rooms, and ordering food, the obviously Josh is their alibi, and they are his. Now hopefully, this can be reconciled with the other statements, and if not, then my guess is the FBI is waiting for one of them to crack, and say that one of them was not there eating with them.

 

 

Food for thought....back to my life now...;) :D

[1corona4u]

Sorry, flippin' double post!!!! Arrrrrgggggh this board!!! :(

[Fury1995]

Ok, here's a question. If the chair was pushed up against the railing, how would someone use that to leverage throwing a body over? I can't grasp how that would work.

 

I am not buying the chair was pushed to the rail for leverage either. Was it possibly pushed out of the way?

 

And also.......

 

If he was thrown over by someone, or a couple of them, that's still a lot of weight to get up and over that rail, as it's about 3 1/2 ft.-4 ft. tall. more so, if it's dead weight.

 

I don't think that's how he went over either. Another possibility is he was facing / leaning looking in the direction of the ocean at some point and someone with some strength could have picked him up from his lower body (legs) and heeved like a highschool wrestling move.

 

If he was injured in the cabin or on the balcony, why wasn't there blood on the balcony? You know Clete would have seen that, after all, he's got a trained detective eye, right?:rolleyes:

 

I agree also, he could see the bed was slept in but not notice anything on the balcony?????

[MszKitty]

And something I have never understood, in either of my cruises on RCI, did I see ANY crew out and about in any of the bars, stores, or anything. Isn't that forbidden?? I just don't think he was even with them in the disco.

 

Its not entirely forbidden. On many, many occasions I have seen crew in the disco and bars late at night. However, they are required to wear some sort of uniform (RCCL blazer, shirt, etc.) and their name tag at all times. Also, I don't think they are allowed to drink as I once offered to purchase a drink for a crew member and he said he was not allowed to drink while in uniform. (Which pretty much meant he couldn't drink at all because he had to always wear the uniform and name tag.)

[1corona4u]

Its not entirely forbidden. On many, many occasions I have seen crew in the disco and bars late at night. However, they are required to wear some sort of uniform (RCCL blazer, shirt, etc.) and their name tag at all times. Also, I don't think they are allowed to drink as I once offered to purchase a drink for a crew member and he said he was not allowed to drink while in uniform. (Which pretty much meant he couldn't drink at all because he had to always wear the uniform and name tag.)

 

Ahh, ok. I know when I was on HAL many years ago, they were allowed to socialize with guest. They just couldn't take them to their crew cabins.;) :D

 

I just thought things were different now, becuase I didn't see any of it on the NOS or the Enchantment.

[The Big Booper]

We were on the Serenade in 2004 and one of the nurses had a thing with a pianist on the ship who played in the lounge. Since we hung out at the lounge we bacame friendly with them and noticed that a few of the medical staff were there late at night listening to the music, wearing their badges of course. I don't remember if they were imbibing and don't think they would because there might be a medical emergency.

 

I also recall seeing the casino staff at times at night in the Lido area getting snacks and occasionally some of the ship's performers out at night, sitting and talking.

 

I am a nite owl and am frequently out until 1-2 AM on the ship.

[berd0625]

Herman, you're in CT....what do people think up there? Any difference from those of us in other parts?

 

The local press is somewhat sympathetic to the family, as opposed to being completely neutral. No where near as biased as MSNBC and Fox (except Greta).

[berd0625]

Its not entirely forbidden. On many, many occasions I have seen crew in the disco and bars late at night. However, they are required to wear some sort of uniform (RCCL blazer, shirt, etc.) and their name tag at all times. Also, I don't think they are allowed to drink as I once offered to purchase a drink for a crew member and he said he was not allowed to drink while in uniform. (Which pretty much meant he couldn't drink at all because he had to always wear the uniform and name tag.)

 

Members of the casino staff and other staff and officers are allowed to be in public areas such as the Windjammer, disco, etc. They can also discreetly socialize off ship with guests ( I went to the casino in Lucaya with 2 casino dealers).

 

Members of the "crew" - waiters, bar staff, etc - are NOT allowed in public areas.

[zotzer]

There was a trumpet player on Radiance who joined our family in the Colony Club for some drinks (nice guy with roots in the same area of PA as our family). I think there are different rules depending on what role people serve on the ship. It's almost as if this guy was *supposed* to hang out and chat up the passengers when not working.

 

Also, one night in the disco, there was some sort of crew party. They gathered in one section of the club, but were indeed drinking and socializing with passengers too. One nice man even bought us drinks. Some were wearing uniforms, others were not.

 

Talking to a bar waiter, he said they are allowed to be in certain passenger areas, but if they are partying, prefer to do so in the crew bar, as their behavior is closely monitored in the passenger sections.

 

Anyway, that's all I know on this subject....granted, not much! LOL

 

Tracy

[AFT_LOVER]

just was next to Brilliance with Dr Lee & he isn't allowed to board til passengers have exited (9AM he was told) then he has 2 hours & they will board for the cruise. Dummy not allowed as it will upset customers boarding. Not sure if their camerman is going onboard with Dr Lee or they are trying...........

[Barefoot_Pirate]

Corona, the officers of the line do visit the bars (don't know what they are drinking) to enjoy the entertainment. But the entertainers and employees of vendors on board (shops, etc.) are not employees of RCCL, and may have their own rules. A friend of mine was with a band that played cruise ships for a few years...they were provided passanger cabins, employee discounts for on board purchases, and could bring their wives..

 

I don't know who operates the casino...RCCL or a vendor. I believe the excursions, shops, photos are independent...the line operates the ship and the "hotel" (rooms, food service, bars, and probably casino).

 

Watchout for Josh's attorney using general statements, with not the exact meaning we would like. I'm blown away by Josh and DW being up and around so early...but Josh did have his parents with him I still don't buy into the "lots of cash" theory of motive which ropes in everyone.

[wrinklesandme]

Okay, like the rest I'm addicted to this story. What recently raised a red flag to me was the incident when Jennifer encountered Josh in the office. Whether she was there first, or he was is incidental. What bothers me is that if they really did know each other, why didn't she ask him, "Hey Josh, do you have any idea where George is?" Seems to me that the both knew the answer to that question already. From what I have read, she had not been advised that he was suspected of going overboard.

 

Off topic. 1corona4u. Love Gracie. She's just too cute. I'm dog lover through and through. Have two Shar-peis, hence the "wrinkles" name. Good luck with her.

 

Have a good day!

Leigh

[canucks4]

I find it less and less realistic that one individual could have physically lifted George and tossed him over a 4' balcony without exertion, banging and raising the eyebrows of Clete. It would have to have taken more than one individual to lift a man of George's stature (180-200 lbs) up and over that balcony rail. If there were more than one man doing this, the noise, exertion, shuffling would have to have been heard by Clete who we know has said was up and listening (and peering). In my mind, it just doesn't add up that he was thrown over by a single perpetrator.

[kenf333]

I find it less and less realistic that one individual could have physically lifted George and tossed him over a 4' balcony without exertion, banging and raising the eyebrows of Clete. It would have to have taken more than one individual to lift a man of George's stature (180-200 lbs) up and over that balcony rail. If there were more than one man doing this, the noise, exertion, shuffling would have to have been heard by Clete who we know has said was up and listening (and peering). In my mind, it just doesn't add up that he was thrown over by a single perpetrator.

 

I find it hard to believe that one person could do it on his/her own, however if you read the officers statement he did say there was noise on the balcony. It has been said that he weighed 210/220 depending on what day its is, like the rest of the information nothing is consistent.

 

As another poster had stated as far as the why, someone would have done this, money, (they both seemed self centered) or did she have a relationship with another person prior to the marriage and he was there? At this point its a guess.

[berwyn]

Boop - I caught that too. I thought her comments were very insulting to Marie - it was as if she was not high up enough for her. Marie was most likely chosen due to her fluency, her experience with guests and that she was most likely the most senior ranking crew member who was a woman. I think JHS has been VERY ungrateful toward Marie in particular. Marie seems to be a very poised graceful young woman who did the best she could under horrific circumstances and has maintained her composure throughout.

 

sell - I don't challenge what you believe you saw. I think your statements as an eyewitness are better served being told to the FBI than being told to us. You may indeed have been on the ship and I have no reason to doubt you. But since the internet is anonymous there is no way to prove or disprove your statements here. If you are indeed sure of what you saw, contact your local FBI office - not the media. Let law enforcement do its job.

wolfie,you're right on again.

[wolfganghowell]

I believe it has been stated that the assist casino manager went to the disco with them from the casino. All reports seem to agree that she left the disco alone after the fight and do not conflict with RCI's camera apparently catching her getting on and off the elevator.

 

Aw shucks rd - between corona and I we must have the jobs that require details details details.

 

On the one hand I'm disappointed RCI won't let them do the dummy testing but I guess it would be extremely distracting to watch a dummy flung off as you are waiting to board. Imagine that there are actually people out there not paying attention to this case and a dummy goes flying by. Which brings us to the other hand, RCI has tried to keep this from turning into a circus freak sideshow to no avail. Can you imagine the tabloid photos of the flying dummy?

[FinelyCruising]

And I really thought, that even if none of the people who hung around with the Smith's had a balcony, I thought that they, at some point, would have been on the Smith's balcony(well, we know they were that night)and would have seen down the side of the ship....even though it's dark out there at night, you can still see it, as there are lights on the sides of the Radiance class ships. Unless they were off?

 

I have a gut feeling that Josh's room was in the vicinity though....think he was the 3rd person who was originally missing.....but then they found him getting off the ship. Here's a comment by Josh's attorney that makes me think that;

 

 

"GREER: Next morning, they‘re waking up, 7:15 in the morning or so, getting ready for a family tour off the boat. He actually heard George Smith being paged, and wentout to the hallway, and advised his statesman, the attendant there for his room, you might have somebody go knock on George‘s door. He‘d been drinking a lot that night; he might not be waking up and responding to that page. Then he went on with his business to get ready for the tour and head off the boat with his family."

 

Sounds to me like they were in the same hallway by the verbiage, and maybe even had the same cabin steward. If he was on another floor, he might have said that Josh went Up/down there and... but said, "he went OUT TO the hallway"......

 

 

 

Ok, here's a question. If the chair was pushed up against the railing, how would someone use that to leverage throwing a body over? I can't grasp how that would work.

 

And also.......

 

If he was thrown over by someone, or a couple of them, that's still a lot of weight to get up and over that rail, as it's about 3 1/2 ft.-4 ft. tall. more so, if it's dead weight.

 

If he was injured in the cabin or on the balcony, why wasn't there blood on the balcony? You know Clete would have seen that, after all, he's got a trained detective eye, right?:rolleyes:

 

If someone walked out there, and helped him over, where are their footprints?

 

According to Josh's attorney, Jennifer left with the Casino manager, from the lounge at 3:15. So someone is lying, as RCI said she was seen getitng off on her floor, and going the wrong way. And something I have never understood, in either of my cruises on RCI, did I see ANY crew out and about in any of the bars, stores, or anything. Isn't that forbidden?? I just don't think he was even with them in the disco.

 

If he's telling the truth though, about them all going to one of the other guy's rooms, and ordering food, the obviously Josh is their alibi, and they are his. Now hopefully, this can be reconciled with the other statements, and if not, then my guess is the FBI is waiting for one of them to crack, and say that one of them was not there eating with them.

 

carona - I have been thinking way too much about this...;)

 

I agree it sounds like Josh's room was close by. I also am not sure if he is one of the most kindhearted kids, or what else I don't know right now.

 

But like I said I have been thinking too much about this....:D

 

I think the lights were on....they are always on.

 

Still thinking.....

 

If the chair was found as was described, I am OK with your theory he was smoking while sitting on the railing. Let's assume the chair was turned around for ease of getting up on the railing and that's what he was doing.

 

Here's where it gets crazy....

 

What if the timing was so incredible with the ins and outs of George and company, and the crew, and Jen that George was actually out on the balcony when Jen came back to the room, and he wasn't over the side by the time she got there like I had thought. What if after they laid Jen on the bed she got up and went out onto the balcony, and saw him sitting there, and STILL BEING PO'd, maybe made a motion to go after him, or did go after him, and he took a tumble over the side?

 

What if someone really did hear a scream?

 

What if she looked over and saw where he was and said fine leave him there? Maybe she looked over again, maybe she didn't. What if she was freaked out and time passed and she went out to the balcony and looked down and found he was no longer on the canopy, but figured he was OK since he wasn't there? Maybe it was lit enough to see him on the canopy, but not lit enough to see any blood. I can't say I'd think anyone could easily fall off of the canopy, so maybe she would have thought the same thing.

 

Maybe she never sleeps after that, and finally goes up early for the spa, never looks out on the balcony due to not seeing something she doesn't want to remember, and kind of goes about her day with a bit of knowing George isn't showing up for a couples thing, kind of in shock, but not really knowing where he is? (And that may be giving her alot of benefit of the doubt).