Royal Caribbean Fights Back!

[kenf333]

I'm sure Ken will think this is stupid, but what if the "thud" was not him hitting the canopy? I mean, it's steel....no matter how he fell, I'm not so sure that sound would have "reverberated", like Clete said. What would reverberate in my mind would be someone slamming the slider really hard........he fell 22 ft...I don't think that sound would have traveled up....I'll have to do some research on that.....

 

 

The door being slammed would have rattled the balconies on either side, and possibly 1 deck below...maybe that's why the people on deck 7 didn't hear anything....

 

Hey, no one's idea's are stupid. His use of the word reverb I think was the best way he could describe the noise. I'm sure some other passengers had to have heard this noise, it just puzzles me why the two neighbors never went out to see what it was. Although from their account it had been quiet for a few minutes and might have thought the noise was irrelevant. Aslamming door is something that I think both could relate to, so pretty sure that was not it. Could they have heard him hit the canopy from 22ft below while on the ocean is a very good point, I'm not sure about that. I guess I lost my thinkin cap while out looking for myself yesterday.

[1corona4u]

1corona4u, do you by chance have the link to the transcript of Greta's show from 1/18?

 

Odd....there doesn't seem to be one for that night....they have the day before, and the day after....but I have it on TiVo....what do you want to know? That was the night they did her noise test...

[fanofseas]

Dr Lee is going to be on Larry King tonight.

[bchbms]

Was Jennifer asked to leave the ship in Turkey, or was that her idea? If it were me and my husband was missing, I would have stayed on that ship and asked questions of everyone I saw the night before including the crew people who wheeled me back to my room. I would be up the backs of the guys that were with us in the bar to try to fill in the blanks of what happened that I couldn't remember. I'm sure she would have been traumatized to stay on the ship, but I think RCCL would have definitely kept someone with her and made her more comfortable than she was in a hotel room in Turkey. At the very least, I would have stayed on the ship till the next port so that my parents could meet me there to escort me home so that I wouldn't be alone in a strange country. And what if, for some crazy reason, the ship sailed in Turkey with Jennifer standing on the dock, and George emerged from some area on the ship where he was also passed out? I mean, at that time of the day, there was really no definitive proof that he went overboard except for the blood. Otherwise, no witnesses, no reason, etc. Would you have taken their word for it if it were your husband? No, if she got off voluntarily, there is definitely something wrong here.

[canucks4]

Human nature - last night, on our quiet street I heard screeching brakes around 4:00. It woke me up, and then I fell back asleep. I didn't get up to see if the car hit anything, I was too tired. Perhaps the occupants near the canopy did the same thing, heard something and then rolled over and went back to sleep. Point being, they may well of heard something, but did not get up to investigate what they heard. After all, they are in the middle of the ocean, in an unfamiliar "hotel", and did not think that the sounds they may/may not have heard would be someone in distress.

[lahoban]

Hi I 've been following this thread but never posted before. This morning I had to post. I was so happy when that maritime lawyer put Nancy Grace in her place! I can't believe she came back after that long silence and would not speak to him. I would love to see this guy on all the talk show's.

 

Also just my 2cent's, but anyone who goes on a cruise ship (or any where for that matter) and acts like the way they did there's bound to be trouble.

[AFT_LOVER]

after her medical checkup, interview wit Turk police & the judge, the U S Consulate & FBI agent told RCCL that they will take care of her & requested her belongings. SO Marie & a Consulate agent went back to her room to pack her up, Marie got the combination to the safe & the Consulate took whatever was in there & it was all given to Jen who was put into a day room at a hotel til her flight on Lufthansa that night.

 

 

 

Was Jennifer asked to leave the ship in Turkey, or was that her idea? If it were me and my husband was missing, I would have stayed on that ship and asked questions of everyone I saw the night before including the crew people who wheeled me back to my room. I would be up the backs of the guys that were with us in the bar to try to fill in the blanks of what happened that I couldn't remember. I'm sure she would have been traumatized to stay on the ship, but I think RCCL would have definitely kept someone with her and made her more comfortable than she was in a hotel room in Turkey. At the very least, I would have stayed on the ship till the next port so that my parents could meet me there to escort me home so that I wouldn't be alone in a strange country. And what if, for some crazy reason, the ship sailed in Turkey with Jennifer standing on the dock, and George emerged from some area on the ship where he was also passed out? I mean, at that time of the day, there was really no definitive proof that he went overboard except for the blood. Otherwise, no witnesses, no reason, etc. Would you have taken their word for it if it were your husband? No, if she got off voluntarily, there is definitely something wrong here.

[kenf333]

Human nature - last night, on our quiet street I heard screeching brakes around 4:00. It woke me up, and then I fell back asleep. I didn't get up to see if the car hit anything, I was too tired. Perhaps the occupants near the canopy did the same thing, heard something and then rolled over and went back to sleep. Point being, they may well of heard something, but did not get up to investigate what they heard. After all, they are in the middle of the ocean, in an unfamiliar "hotel", and did not think that the sounds they may/may not have heard would be someone in distress.

 

Very good point!

 

I guess that explains why they did not get up, however if the noise came from the partition as another poster had suggested then the noise would have been louder and more direct to the person in the nearest cabin. It appears that the thud we indeed his body hitting the canopy, after looking at several pictures and considering as 1corona had said that the thickness is 1/4, the officer probably stated it best by using the word re verb, as the noise would have continued for a second or two, as there is no insulation, and little support structures on the bottom of the canopy, therefore allowing the metal to flex, when metal flexes it creates a vibration sound.

[AFT_LOVER]

After watching 5 shows this morning, all based on Dr Lee & his 4 assistants working away in 9206 & 7206 & attorneys in both stateroom next door to 9206. (Quite funny to watch one who cannot figure out how to get back inside from the balcony as the curtain blocks his way)

 

So far the only transcript is from Friday with Mark Fuhrman (I laugh that he added the "H" as in OJ it was Furman): http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,182527,00.html

 

It is 9:43AM 1/24 and no transcripts for yesterday are up!

[bchbms]

after her medical checkup, interview wit Turk police & the judge, the U S Consulate & FBI agent told RCCL that they will take care of her & requested her belongings. SO Marie & a Consulate agent went back to her room to pack her up, Marie got the combination to the safe & the Consulate took whatever was in there & it was all given to Jen who was put into a day room at a hotel til her flight on Lufthansa that night.

 

 

Still wondering though...was that her decision or the authorities?:confused:

[ILoveScotland]

I don't know whose idea it was for Jennifer to fly home, and I am of two minds. On of my minds agrees that if my husband had gone missing I would want to stay on board until I had some definitive answer about what had happened. I guess I had thought that by the time the Turkish authorities finished their work they were sure he'd gone overboard.

 

That leads to my other mind saying that given the circumstances I would not have wanted to be surrounded by strangers no matter how kind and compassionate. I would want to be with family and others who love me.

 

I only saw Dr. Lee on the Today Show. His answers were mostly "I cannot tell you because it's part of the investigation." And he left out other information like the fact that he will have access to the Brilliance's sister ship (don't know the ships well enough yet to remember which one) to do the dummy test.

 

The plot thickens...or maybe just gets more convoluted.

[Barky]

http://www.greenwichtime.com/scn-gt-smithhcjan24,0,7457136.story?coll=green-main-utility

[AFT_LOVER]

which she used 7 times while she was with him calling her dad. First she wanted him to fly there & then she decided to go home. SO U S Consulate made it happen. Now she wants RCCL to pay for her flight & also their bill from the cruise. Wonder if she will now want Dr Lee paid for also............

 

 

 

Still wondering though...was that her decision or the authorities?:confused:

[AFT_LOVER]

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0601/23/ng.01.html

[canucks4]

Unfortunately, being in Canada and on satellite and no cable makes it difficult to get many of the shows you are able to watch. I find and read most of the transcripts that everyone posts, but what happened on Nancy last night? Who was the Maritime lawyer that made her look like an idiot??? Is Dr. Lee going to share his findings with the general public? with the FBI only? with the Smiths only? Was there any talk of that yet?

[Fury1995]

After watching 5 shows this morning, all based on Dr Lee & his 4 assistants working away in 9206 & 7206 & attorneys in both stateroom next door to 9206. (Quite funny to watch one who cannot figure out how to get back inside from the balcony as the curtain blocks his way)

 

So far the only transcript is from Friday with Mark Fuhrman (I laugh that he added the "H" as in OJ it was Furman): http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,182527,00.html

 

It is 9:43AM 1/24 and no transcripts for yesterday are up!

 

I thought 9062 was their cabin number. That was the number she stated on Oprah in her interview. Is this wrong?

[Fury1995]

Odd....there doesn't seem to be one for that night....they have the day before, and the day after....but I have it on TiVo....what do you want to know? That was the night they did her noise test...

 

I missed that one. Isn't that the night the passengers from deck 7 were interviewed? I read that somewhere.....

[SunshineCity]

Do We Need Another Law?

The case of George Smith missing from Brilliance of the

Seas is continuing to drive ratings for cable news/talk

shows. Consequently, you can turn on the more tabloidish

of the shows any evening and hear them promising "the

latest on the case of the missing honeymooner" only to

find out that "the latest" is nothing new.

Unfortunately, what this appetite for new information

does is open the door to just about anybody having

anything to say on the subject, no matter what their

credentials (or lack thereof) or how many holes in what

they are saying/promoting.

An idea being promoted recently on these shows by

George Smith's family among others is that some federal

agency should be in charge of collecting and reporting

data from the cruise lines on missing passengers, so the

public will know how safe/unsafe cruises are. Right now,

they say, the only figures are from the cruise lines or

their associated organizations, and according to them,

there's no way to tell if the figures are accurate.

That usually gets the attention of the tabloid host

who breathlessly jumps right on it.

If they'd only bother doing their research on the

cruise industry in their preparation for the broadcast,

they'd find out that the federal government already has

this information reported to them along with any other

serious crimes alleged on any ICCL-member ship, and most

other US-based lines.

Back in the late 1990's there were allegations in the

media that cruise lines were covering up crimes onboard

their ships, which the lines denied. At that time, most

lines had policies which gave their management the

discretion to not report crimes that they did not deem

plausible or if the victim preferred not to have it

reported.

In 1999, to remove any suspicion that the lines were

engaging in coverups, all the member lines of the ICCL

(which includes more than 90% of the available berths

being sold in the US) and most other lines, adopted a

zero-tolerance policy in which all serious crimes would

automatically be reported to the FBI along with the

authorities in the next port of call.

In some cases this is already required by law; in

others, depending on the crime, nationalities involved

and location, it is voluntary. But each of the lines now

has the policy to report everything, mandatory or not.

Cynics would probably say they need legislation to

make sure this is done, but can you imagine a case where

Aunt Sally went on a cruise, didn't come home, and the

relatives weren't asking the FBI about it? If the FBI

didn't have a record of it, can you imagine the media not

jumping on that story? No, it seems very unlikely a

cruise line wouldn't make the report to the FBI.

Yes, there was a case we reported on about a year ago

when a passenger traveling by herself went missing, and

the line didn't know about it until the family at home

questioned them. In that case, the lower-level manager on

the ship violated company policy by not setting the

wheels in motion which would have started an

investigation into the passenger's whereabouts and have

the FBI notified. The important thing is that when Royal

Caribbean became aware of the situation, several months

after the passenger disappeared, they immediately

informed the FBI and dealt with the rule-breaker by

terminating him.

So the federal government is already in possession of

all this information. If anything, these talking heads on

the interview shows should be calling for the FBI to

simply tabulate and release the information it has, not

for some other bureaucracy to be created to again collect

and verify it.

There really is no reason for the Smith family or

anyone else to calling for more laws or this reporting

since it's already done. Of course then there would be

nothing for Nancy Grace or her competitors to spend a

half hour being outraged about. On second thought, she'd

probably find something.

===========

[AFT_LOVER]

http://www.greenwichtime.com/scn-gt-smithhcjan24,0,7457136.story?coll=green-main-utility

 

 

No idea where he got info from but Lee & Co were on the ship 6 hours, tho Lee left after 4 the rest stayed. This was confirmed by RCCL hired former FBI Forensic & Profiler.

 

All the media's cameras on the balconies from 7 to 9 & no one atop them looking.

 

Guess Jen was giving him info as it sounds ;-)

[Barky]

I thought 9062 was their cabin number. That was the number she stated on Oprah in her interview. Is this wrong?

 

9062 is the correct room number. This info. is from Greta's tour and Jennifer saying the room number on Oprah.

[wolfganghowell]

Larry Kaye is the maritime attorney who has been on MSNBC getting into it with Susan Filan - that seemingly vapid former Connecticut prosecutor. He is a riot. The only boo boo he did was to call Susan "honey" but it was in a heated discussion and he did apologize. He makes excellent points and by the look on his face, he is disgusted by how RCI is being blamed for the Turks and the FBI's investigative decisions.

 

Haven't watched Nancy Grace - its hard enough keeping up with the board, Rita, Greta and sometimes idiot Scarborough. Not a great fan of Henry Lee because of the OJ thing but if he can process evidence and let it speak for itself without interpretation I'm interested.

[AFT_LOVER]

just not in correct order after watching 5 shows & getting transcripts for everyone. OOPS!

 

I thought 9062 was their cabin number. That was the number she stated on Oprah in her interview. Is this wrong?

[Barefoot_Pirate]

beachbum, RCCL offered to let the widow say on board, but she elected to leave and fly back to the US.

 

It really doesn't matter what RCCL did or did not do, the DW and relatives will say they should have done the something else. Are they really saying the carpet should have been left in the cabin now for Mr. Moto to test, rather than turning it over to the FBI. IMHO they don't care about DH, but only money money money. Mr. Moto haveing secret evidence now is just a way to keep this circus going while the lawyers develop plan B.

[Fury1995]

http://www.greenwichtime.com/scn-gt-smithhcjan24,0,7457136.story?coll=green-main-utility

 

Yes, very entertaining. Good thing my last cruise didn't have as many leaks as this investigation.:eek:

 

 

So if the Smith's have their way, RCCL (or any cruiseline) should enter any cabin with noise coming from it for fear of being negligent?

 

Okay, raise your hand if you always here someone knocking on your cabin door from the balcony.......:confused:

 

How many invasion of privacy lawsuits would there be then? :rolleyes:

[Fury1995]

beachbum, RCCL offered to let the widow say on board, but she elected to leave and fly back to the US.

 

It really doesn't matter what RCCL did or did not do, the DW and relatives will say they should have done the something else. Are they really saying the carpet should have been left in the cabin now for Mr. Moto to test, rather than turning it over to the FBI. IMHO they don't care about DH, but only money money money. Mr. Moto haveing secret evidence now is just a way to keep this circus going while the lawyers develop plan B.

 

 

Exactly! It's a no win situation for RCCL. Just like Adam Golstein said, no one could do anything perfect on that day, and the Smith's lawsuit is depending on it.

 

If the carpet was still there, they would have said it should have been taken up. It's now evidence held by the FBI, so now it's not there for Mr. Moto to do forensic tests in it's original state. Whatever..