Pre-purchase casino credits

[WahtDa]

6 minutes ago, PompeySailor said:

Once RC Casino Royale realizes there is a 7% increased advantage to the player, this promo will be dead and buried.

That is if this calculation bears any validity, and to clarify I am not doubting it either.

wouldnt surprise me that they didn’t really do the math on it (RC that is).

 

I have no hands on experience of this particular promo, However I totally understand it.

Having lived in Casino Royale for the past 18 years and used promo coupons over the years on the ships, these promotions come and go

 

if there was no limit ($2k) I would certainly take advantage of it with a cherry on top

With the Promo chips in play after a win, real chips go in wife’s pocket. 

And as already quoted by the ones who understand it, playing through the promo chips on an average 4-5hr session a night at a $25/$50 table would be a breeze.

 

Happy wife happy life.

 

Happy Days!

 

Yep!  Don't forget the credit card rewards you'll get for the purchase too.  (2% cashback for me.)

[PompeySailor]

1 minute ago, WahtDa said:

 

Yep!  Don't forget the credit card rewards you'll get for the purchase too.  (2% cashback for me.)

$20 OBC for me and the 2% cashback 😉

[Drunken Crab]

11 minutes ago, DrJAV said:

 

Yes, but hes not saying he wants to redeem the promo chip for cash, hes saying he wants the promo chip to be replaced with a real chip once it has been risked/gambled in a game, which is what "played through" means.

I get what he’s saying. I could be wrong, but i don’t think played through is a legal term. It may be a know gambling term or vegas term, but we are talking about a T&C legal doc. What we do know is that not redeemable for cash is a legal term that you see every day. The T&C says they arent redeemable for cash. They even put it right after saying the chips must be played through. 

 

I get what everyone is saying. RCI would have been better of with a T&C saying “promo chips aren’t redeemable for cash.” and that’s it!  Any “what if“ you can come up with all goes back to they aren’t redeemable for cash. 

[Thorben-Hendrik]

21 minutes ago, Drunken Crab said:

The T&C says they arent redeemable for cash.

They do not need to be redeemed for cash they go into the bin -> once they have been on the table = played through ->  either replaced by real money - > win or not-> loose

It is like that everywhere but with RCI...

 

That is how the GAMING COMMISSION demands it for a good reason....fair play!👍

Sorry but you have no clue about interpreting T+C, gaming regulations or any of that....

But that is not the point!

It is RCI secretly and sneaky kicking consumer a$$ - taking advantage of their good faith!🤮

 

Edited December 5, 2018 by Thorben-Hendrik

[DrJAV]

4 minutes ago, Drunken Crab said:

I get what he’s saying. I could be wrong, but i don’t think played through is a legal term. It may be a know gambling term or vegas term, but we are talking about a T&C legal doc. What we do know is that not redeemable for cash is a legal term that you see every day. The T&C says they arent redeemable for cash. They even put it right after saying the chips must be played through.  

 

I get what everyone is saying. RCI would have been better of with a T&C saying “promo chips aren’t redeemable for cash.” and that’s it!  Any “what if“ you can come up with all goes back to they aren’t redeemable for cash. 

 

I don't know what you mean by "legal term". You can use any English word you want in an English legal document. It is assumed that any word used in a legal document means what the word means. You can't write "red" when you meant "green". They wrote "played through" and then later enforced the T&C in their casino as if they meant "must play the chip until it is lost" which is very different from the generally used and widely accepted meaning of that term. In any case the difference in the meaning only benefits the casino. Whether they did this intentionally/maliciously I dont know, it might have just been a innocent mistake.

[Thorben-Hendrik]

10 minutes ago, Drunken Crab said:

but i don’t think played through is a legal term

Beeepppp -wrong -> ask gaming commision!

[Thorben-Hendrik]

14 minutes ago, DrJAV said:

In any case the difference in the meaning only benefits the casino. Whether they did this intentionally/maliciously I dont know, it might have just been a innocent mistake. 

Darn interns at that billion $ company!🤑

First the coffeecard...now this....

Edited December 5, 2018 by Thorben-Hendrik

[0mzzz]

40 minutes ago, PompeySailor said:

Once RC Casino Royale realizes there is a 7% increased advantage to the player, this promo will be dead and buried.

That is if this calculation bears any validity, and to clarify I am not doubting it either.

wouldnt surprise me that they didn’t really do the math on it (RC that is).

 

I'm sure they did do the math.  They also did the math on the psychology of it too, though.  For the player that buys the promo and plays a disciplined player advantage style many others will buy the promo and will not (playing extra bets with higher house advantage, etc or continuing to play after the disciplined style would call for you to stop).   A few players will not even consume all their promo chips.

 

Assume you are an average player that wins at roughly average probabilities and you play pass on craps.  We'll simplify it further and say you win 49 out of 100 pass line bets resolved.  To further de-risk the calculation I'll truncate remainders instead of rounding.  You're doing $10 bets so your $2000 buy in gets you 220 $10 bets.

 

First round: 220 bets x 0.49.  107 promo chips and 107 cashable chips remain.

Second round: 107 x 0.49. 52 promo chips and 159 (107 +52) cashable chips remain

Third round: 52 x 0.49. 25 promo chips and 184 cashable chips remain

Fourth round: 25 x 0.49. 12 promo chips and 196 cashable chips remain

Fifth round: 12 x 0.49.  5 promo chips and 201 cashable chips remain

Sixth round 5 x 0.49. 2 promo chips and 203 cashable chips remain

Seventh round:  0 promo chips and 203 cashable chips remain.

 

At this point casino really hopes you keep playing, but you're out of promo chips and know to stop.

 

By not carrying the decimals this calculation under-estimates the player advantage, but even so we still show that the player has 203 cashable $10 chips for a $2,000 buy in.  Ideally player will be playing the craps odds bet along the way and should expect to convert the 220 promo chips to something like 207-215 cashable chips.  It would also be less risky to do it on a $5 table if you have the option, but then that's twice as many promo chips to keep up with.

 

Some will win big.  Some will have bad luck and still lose even with the player advantage.  Most should expect to turn a small profit.

 

Edited December 5, 2018 by 0mzzz

[Drunken Crab]

1 minute ago, Thorben-Hendrik said:

Beeepppp -wrong -> ask gaming commision!

Could you show me how the gaming commissions definition of “played through” sounds like you know what you’re talking about, would be nice to see it in black and white. 

 

My worry, play through, per the gaming commission definition you show me, may only apply to comp or free chips and not promo chips you actually pay for because, as you know, the gaming commission is strict about things like that. 

 

I’ll wait for that definition of play through!

 

Dr. J - you are right!  the reason for a T&C is to take all the assumption about terms out of play and give you a strict understanding of the rules. Lets wait to see the gaming commisions‘ (probably need the commission that oversees cruise lines) legal definition of played through.  If it’s not a legal, defined term, it’s just like you said- just words that can have more than one meaning. it may be acceptable, but if i were the judge I give all the weight in my ruling that the chip is not redeemable in cash. That only has one meaning.

[Thorben-Hendrik]

19 minutes ago, DrJAV said:

 

I don't know what you mean by "legal term". You can use any English word you want in an English legal document. It is assumed that any word used in a legal document means what the word means. You can't write "red" when you meant "green". They wrote "played through" and then later enforced the T&C in their casino as if they meant "must play the chip until it is lost" which is very different from the generally used and widely accepted meaning of that term. In any case the difference in the meaning only benefits the casino. Whether they did this intentionally/maliciously I dont know, it might have just been a innocent mistake.

Is there a gaming commision licensing the Casino Royal?🤔

Or ist it " I can do what I want in my backroom joint"?

[PompeySailor]

Don’t play craps, but understand your explanation and math.

Not sure you can calculate math on psychology, probability yes.

[WahtDa]

Just now, Thorben-Hendrik said:

Is there a gaming commision licensing the Casino Royal?🤔

Or ist it " I can do what I want in my backroom joint"?

 

Well it only operates in international waters... so I would think not.

[PompeySailor]

Not licensed by a gaming commission 

however with all the WG2’s I have from RC, they are certainly now observed by the IRS

[Thorben-Hendrik]

2 minutes ago, Drunken Crab said:

Could you show me how the gaming commissions definition of “played through” sounds like you know what you’re talking about, would be nice to see it in black and white. 

 

My worry, play through, per the gaming commission definition you show me, may only apply to comp or free chips and not promo chips you actually pay for because, as you know, the gaming commission is strict about things like that. 

No I can not....they are not that easy acessible....but I have lived in vegas for many years and have many friends in the industry...both dealers and mostly floor managers of some kind.....

I still do not get - how you can defend them!

They clearly designed this to take advatage against fair play - else they would have used very clear wording!🤮🤑

[PompeySailor]

 

 

International waters was history a few years back, when taxes on winnings were required by US law to report all winnings above $1199.00

 

to clarify, all hand pays above $1199.00

Edited December 5, 2018 by PompeySailor

[Thorben-Hendrik]

6 minutes ago, PompeySailor said:

Not licensed by a gaming commission 

however with all the WG2’s I have from RC, they are certainly now observed by the IRS

That is what I thought...else they could not keep picking up cards from the floor and keep playing...and such!

Like not showing all cards and decks before they open a table......

So nobody knows if they removed cards!😱

Or mabe just accidently dropped them...😋

OK it is a backroom joint....so you know they will screw you -> all fine!👍

Edited December 5, 2018 by Thorben-Hendrik

[PompeySailor]

And to all those who purchase the $2000 + $200. Don’t forget to get a Win/Loss statement from Casino Royale.

they are very quick to give out the WG2’s, but you will wait a long time for the W/L paperwork.

 

(actually you can wait 30-45 minutes to be hand payed sometimes if casino is busy)😉

[Thorben-Hendrik]

1 minute ago, PompeySailor said:

they are very quick to give out the WG2’s,

What a deal!

[PompeySailor]

Don’t confuse me of being a cheerleader 😎

[Drunken Crab]

9 minutes ago, Thorben-Hendrik said:

No I can not....they are not that easy acessible....but I have lived in vegas for many years and have many friends in the industry...both dealers and mostly floor managers of some kind.....

I still do not get - how you can defend them!

They clearly designed this to take advatage against fair play - else they would have used very clear wording!🤮🤑

Haha!  Gotcha!

 

Not defending them at all. Just wondering why you are obsessed with “play through” when it clearly says they cant be redeemed for cash. When I asked for a definition of played through you say it’s not accessable (must be located on the top of a mountain) but all my vegas buddies know what it means. maybe they can testify as expert witnesses!

[Thorben-Hendrik]

4 minutes ago, PompeySailor said:

Don’t confuse me of being a cheerleader 😎

No WAY!

[PompeySailor]

I only sail on ships that have Casino’s 😂

[Drunken Crab]

My appologies to everyone else for derailing a thread with good information. I understand the T&C and will buy the slot package and bring cash for the tables.  can’t wait to get my hands on that free scratchie!!  Wonder if that needs to be played through, too. 😃

[Thorben-Hendrik]

3 minutes ago, Drunken Crab said:

Haha!  Gotcha!

 

Not defending them at all. Just wondering why you are obsessed with “play through” when it clearly says they cant be redeemed for cash. When I asked for a definition of played through you say it’s not accessable (must be located on the top of a mountain) but all my vegas buddies know what it means. maybe they can testify as expert witnesses!

Now I really give up - you are just not getting it!

[Drunken Crab]

Oh I got it. Can’t fix stupid.