New rules for wheelchair users

[dylan400d]

I am a little upset by this change. I went to make a booking for my father who uses a mobility scooter when on land. For short distances, he is fine, but long distances, he needs a bit of assistance.

 

We were informed that there was only one accessible cabin left on Iona (Great!) however, there was no Evacuchairs left, therefore he would not be able to come if he wishes to being his mobility scooter. 

[AchileLauro]

33 minutes ago, dylan400d said:

I am a little upset by this change. I went to make a booking for my father who uses a mobility scooter when on land. For short distances, he is fine, but long distances, he needs a bit of assistance.

 

We were informed that there was only one accessible cabin left on Iona (Great!) however, there was no Evacuchairs left, therefore he would not be able to come if he wishes to being his mobility scooter. 

Whether he is able to take his mobility scooter or not should be irrelevant. It's his personal level of disability/mobility that should be the main consideration.

The limiting factor on the number of mobility challenged passengers that can be safely carried is really dependent on having sufficient equipment and trained staff to operate that equipment. 

[Selbourne]

7 hours ago, dylan400d said:

I am a little upset by this change. I went to make a booking for my father who uses a mobility scooter when on land. For short distances, he is fine, but long distances, he needs a bit of assistance.

 

We were informed that there was only one accessible cabin left on Iona (Great!) however, there was no Evacuchairs left, therefore he would not be able to come if he wishes to being his mobility scooter. 

This is the way it works now unfortunately. We were discussing a few future cruises with our agent recently and they looked to see if any evacuation chairs were available first. As there weren’t any available they said that it was pointless even checking if any accessible cabins were available, as we wouldn’t be able to book one anyway without an evacuation chair!

[AchileLauro]

54 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

This is the way it works now unfortunately. We were discussing a few future cruises with our agent recently and they looked to see if any evacuation chairs were available first. As there weren’t any available they said that it was pointless even checking if any accessible cabins were available, as we wouldn’t be able to book one anyway without an evacuation chair!

 

The limiting factor is not just the number of actual chairs but also the number of crew available to assist in an emergency. With this in mind I was thinking back to a cruise we were on some years back where of a family of four, three were in mobility scooters, (I don't know if they were all in one cabin or if in two). In an emergency this family would require the assistance of at least six crew members to assist with their evacuation.

 

Unfortunately those with mobility issues now need to plan and book well in advance if they wish to grab one of the limited number of disabled spaces available on ships.

[Megabear2]

5 minutes ago, AchileLauro said:

 

The limiting factor is not just the number of actual chairs but also the number of crew available to assist in an emergency. With this in mind I was thinking back to a cruise we were on some years back where of a family of four, three were in mobility scooters, (I don't know if they were all in one cabin or if in two). In an emergency this family would require the assistance of at least six crew members to assist with their evacuation.

 

Unfortunately those with mobility issues now need to plan and book well in advance if they wish to grab one of the limited number of disabled spaces available on ships.

I don't doubt those people will however move to the other lines (apparently all lines except P&O and Cunard).  It's not as simple as saying it's a lack of crew to deal with these mobility scooters/wheelchairs.  As Dylan400d says in his post an adapted cabin was available, there was however no evacuation chair.  However (and i may be reading it wrongly so anyone who understands better please say), as I understand it that disability  adapted cabin may still be sold to someone else who uses another form of disability aid and assumedly needing assistance, albeit not a chair.

 

 

[Selbourne]

12 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

I don't doubt those people will however move to the other lines (apparently all lines except P&O and Cunard).  It's not as simple as saying it's a lack of crew to deal with these mobility scooters/wheelchairs.  As Dylan400d says in his post an adapted cabin was available, there was however no evacuation chair.  However (and i may be reading it wrongly so anyone who understands better please say), as I understand it that disability  adapted cabin may still be sold to someone else who uses another form of disability aid and assumedly needing assistance, albeit not a chair.

 

 

That’s my understanding also. 

Edited October 9 by Selbourne

[terrierjohn]

1 hour ago, Selbourne said:

This is the way it works now unfortunately. We were discussing a few future cruises with our agent recently and they looked to see if any evacuation chairs were available first. As there weren’t any available they said that it was pointless even checking if any accessible cabins were available, as we wouldn’t be able to book one anyway without an evacuation chair!

And that is totally due to the way P&O are implementing the new rules. By forcing anyone who needs a powered mobility device to use an evac chair, even if they could manage stairs, is depriving those who genuinely need an evac chair of a much needed holiday.

 

[Selbourne]

54 minutes ago, AchileLauro said:

The limiting factor is not just the number of actual chairs but also the number of crew available to assist in an emergency

Yes, the two issues are inextricably linked. Evacuation chairs aren’t expensive, so the numbers of them aren’t limited by cost, but by the numbers of available crew to deploy them.

[Selbourne]

4 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

And that is totally due to the way P&O are implementing the new rules. By forcing anyone who needs a powered mobility device to use an evac chair, even if they could manage stairs, is depriving those who genuinely need an evac chair of a much needed holiday.

 

Indeed. In these enlightened days of disability awareness, it seems odd that those with the greatest need of accessible cabins are being displaced for those who don’t truly need them. If it was genuinely a safety issue then it would be difficult to argue against, but on the basis that it appears to only be P&O and Cunard applying this rule I am at a loss as to why it’s dangerous not to do this on their ships but perfectly safe on all the other cruise lines. Answers on a postcard…..

[AchileLauro]

1 minute ago, Selbourne said:

Yes, the two issues are inextricably linked. Evacuation chairs aren’t expensive, so the numbers of them aren’t limited by cost, but by the numbers of available crew to deploy them.

That depends on the chair. Some basic evacuation chairs are relatively inexpensive. All safety equipment is overpriced, as soon as you mention Health & Safety the price goes up. The more advanced evacuation chairs that may be be required in some situations are quite pricey.

[cruising.mark.uk]

5 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

And that is totally due to the way P&O are implementing the new rules. By forcing anyone who needs a powered mobility device to use an evac chair, even if they could manage stairs, is depriving those who genuinely need an evac chair of a much needed holiday.

 

I'm no expert on disabilities, but it seems to me quite fair to assume that, in the worst case scenario, someone who needs a powered mobility device will likely need an evac chair.  Finding out when an emergency occurs that they can't get themselves down perhaps 7 or 8 flights of stairs to the assembly areas / lifeboats would put them, the crew who would have to assist them without an available evac chair and other passengers at risk.

[Selbourne]

Just now, AchileLauro said:

That depends on the chair. Some basic evacuation chairs are relatively inexpensive. All safety equipment is overpriced, as soon as you mention Health & Safety the price goes up. The more advanced evacuation chairs that may be be required in some situations are quite pricey.

Maybe, but for a massive multi $bn company the size of Carnival it’s absolutely peanuts. I simply cannot believe that the cost of the chairs is the problem here. It’s the numbers of available staff to deal with passengers requiring them. This then determines the number of evacuation chairs permitted on each ship. 

[sandancer]

It would now be almost impossible to book a last minute cruise with any kind of mobility device. Our upcoming cruise has reduced in price but booking now would not be possible as no doubt all evac chairs are already allocated.
We do not have an adapted cabin. Our next P&O cruise will now be summer 26.  Until then we plan to cruise with Princess. 

Edited October 9 by sandancer

[terrierjohn]

1 minute ago, cruising.mark.uk said:

I'm no expert on disabilities, but it seems to me quite fair to assume that, in the worst case scenario, someone who needs a powered mobility device will likely need an evac chair.  Finding out when an emergency occurs that they can't get themselves down perhaps 7 or 8 flights of stairs to the assembly areas / lifeboats would put them, the crew who would have to assist them without an available evac chair and other passengers at risk.

I am basing my comments on the many posts from scooter users, who only need them for longer journeys, stating that they can manage stairs and walk short distances without any help. But I am well aware that some scooter users will need an evac chair as well.

[Selbourne]

3 minutes ago, cruising.mark.uk said:

I'm no expert on disabilities, but it seems to me quite fair to assume that, in the worst case scenario, someone who needs a powered mobility device will likely need an evac chair.  Finding out when an emergency occurs that they can't get themselves down perhaps 7 or 8 flights of stairs to the assembly areas / lifeboats would put them, the crew who would have to assist them without an available evac chair and other passengers at risk.

I agree, but I would argue that there are many hundreds of people on the average cruise ship who this would apply to, not just those in scooters or wheelchairs. You only need to observe the number of passengers who use lifts to move just one or two decks (even descending) and whenever this issue is discussed the topic of hidden disabilities always comes up. These passengers wouldn’t have been allocated evacuation chairs or accessible cabins, but would still have a real problem in this scenario. 

[Selbourne]

1 hour ago, AchileLauro said:

Unfortunately those with mobility issues now need to plan and book well in advance if they wish to grab one of the limited number of disabled spaces available on ships.

Easier said than done with many disabilities. My wife has secondary progressive Multiple Sclerosis. She is already a full time wheelchair user and requires considerable assistance from me. Her condition is on a downward trajectory and, in all honesty, I fear that cruising may be too much for us in a years time, let alone in two or three years time. If deposits were still 5% I might be tempted to book cruises that far out and just accept that we might lose the money if we can’t go, but our days of having around five future cruises booked are now gone as there would be too much money at risk if we couldn’t go. In that scenario, transferring to a future cruise would obviously not be an option. 

[Megabear2]

27 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

Easier said than done with many disabilities. My wife has secondary progressive Multiple Sclerosis. She is already a full time wheelchair user and requires considerable assistance from me. Her condition is on a downward trajectory and, in all honesty, I fear that cruising may be too much for us in a years time, let alone in two or three years time. If deposits were still 5% I might be tempted to book cruises that far out and just accept that we might lose the money if we can’t go, but our days of having around five future cruises booked are now gone as there would be too much money at risk if we couldn’t go. In that scenario, transferring to a future cruise would obviously not be an option. 

Thinking outside the box, maybe the rules on booking these disability cabins could be adjusted to accommodate these types of issues. 

 

As they have to be booked by telephone with P&O it wouldn't be impossible for the booking conditions to be adjusted to make just these cabins have the lower 5% deposit. Also as the cabins are so sought after and limited, possibly a refundable deposit on receipt of a written doctor's medical report for longer itineraries - perhaps those over 21 days to take in the out of season breaks a large number of retirees and older guests fill.

 

Any cancelled cabin bookings due to health issue cancellations would assumedly sell extremely quickly as late available cabins as so many are seeking them. Perhaps the policy could run until til six months before the sailing date to give P&O a good period to resell so no financial loss to them.

 

Edited October 9 by Megabear2

[david63]

The problem with that @Megabear2 is that you are trying to apply a common sense approach to the problem and as we all know common sense is in short supply within P&O

[GOLDSURFER]

I’m sorry to say the only way to book a cruise for a disabled passenger whatever the problem is. 
Is face to face with a P.O. Loyalty onboard.

I was booked on B421 Britannia but PO cancelled so transferred to B423 same cruise but different dates.

Whilst onboard PO cancelled two more of my cruises as the cabin did not have an evacuation chair.

I transferred too a different booking onboard for both cruises with no problems and an evacuation chair assigned to the cabins January &. March 2026 that’s how far ahead we must book.

Derek.

[TigerB]

The big problem I have, and I think it is deplorable for P&O to do this, is that they do not have an evacuation chair for every accessible cabin, and sufficient crew to use them.

 

Consider this, using Iona as an example...

There are 35 fully accessible cabins, which includes one suite. There a 20 partially accessible cabins.

If all 55 cabins are occupied by a full-time wheelchair user, that is 55 evacuation chairs P&O should provide, and 110 trained crew members.

They have now added 12 suites where a power chair or mobility scooter is allowed. So now, there is a potential requirement of 67 evacuation chairs and 134 trained staff.

 

I would interested to know just how many evacuation chairs there are on Iona, and why there are not 67.

 

The message they are giving to disabled customers appears to be, "Hey, we care about you, so we are providing you with access to an accessible cabin, but you can't have it because there isn't an evacuation chair available for it; so, we don't care that much about you".

[GOLDSURFER]

Convert lower deck cabins for disabled passengers on next refit so evacuation chairs are not necessary.

[david63]

3 minutes ago, GOLDSURFER said:

Convert lower deck cabins for disabled passengers on next refit so evacuation chairs are not necessary.

That would only work if all disabled passengers never moved above that deck!

[GOLDSURFER]

No the cabins would be the same adapted for wheelchair users and Mobility Scooters 

[david63]

1 minute ago, GOLDSURFER said:

No the cabins would be the same adapted for wheelchair users and Mobility Scooters 

Yes but if a wheelchair user was to go up to, say, the Crows Nest then how in an emergency situation would they get down if there were no evac chairs?

[GOLDSURFER]

So the theatre is full, live lounge is full how do they implement evacuation chairs. PO have not thought this through it is no no situation for them.