Wearing medals

[BindarDundat]

So, if you approve of a lapel pin on a tux...how about a pink ruffled shirt? A bolo tie? There are class(ic) styles that are class(ic) for a reason.

 

Bindar

[Kindlychap]

Coming to this discussion a bit late, but I thought the rule for gentlemen in civilian formal attire was No Jewellery, not even a wrist watch. (The premise being the evening is so entrancing that time is not a factor.) The idea of a lapel pin on a tux lacks class.

 

Bindar

 

How do you define "jewellery"? I would have thought that most men would have thought that cuff-liinks are "jewellery". Especially if gold.

 

What is the point of a dress watch if not to wear on a formal occasion? I don't think a dress watch is appropriate for daily use - ideally I'd prefer a stainless steel watch for every day in view of the practicality. So when does one wear a gold or other precious metal watch?

 

I think you are being precious.

[Norfolk Brit]

Coming to this discussion a bit late, but I thought the rule for gentlemen in civilian formal attire was No Jewellery, not even a wrist watch. (The premise being the evening is so entrancing that time is not a factor.) The idea of a lapel pin on a tux lacks class.

 

Bindar

 

This has come as quite a shock as my husband's wedding ring won't come off. Do we have to hide in the cabin on formal nights in case the jewellery police spot the offending item? Do we cancel the cruise?

 

BindarDundat, please give us the benefit of your superior sartorial wisdom urgently.

 

Regards, Mary

[Jeanne S]

Coming to this discussion a bit late, but I thought the rule for gentlemen in civilian formal attire was No Jewellery, not even a wrist watch. (The premise being the evening is so entrancing that time is not a factor.) The idea of a lapel pin on a tux lacks class.

 

Bindar

 

Cufflinks are appros with a dinner jacket and are considered jewelry.

 

What would be considered contrary to any rule would be for the Gentleman to be late to this important occasion, therefore a time piece is necessary.

[mufi]

The whole subject is (if a subject can be one) a minefield. Really it boils down to instincively knowing what is correct and what is tacky. Medals on Rememberance Sunday at a Ceotaph service, very appropriate. Vietnam Vets visiting the memorial in Washington (must be the the most impressive war memorial anywhere) very appropriate. Medals at dinner on a cruise ship with strangers at table, tacky.

 

But to suggest that a watch is taboo!!!!

 

David.

[Slow Foxtrot]

Really it boils down to instinctively knowing what is correct and what is tacky.... Medals at dinner on a cruise ship with strangers at table, tacky.

 

David.

 

 

Tacky? Yes.... Perhaps the word 'ludicrous' would be more appropriate. And never forget that modesty is one of the finest attributes of a gentleman, medals or no medals!

[TinAngel]

I showed up at a "Regimental" dinner last year with fellow combat veterans honoring the lads who just returned from Iraq. We older veterans having paid for the banquet/dinner were honored, no not for that but for our service. None of us wore our dress uniforms. Most did not have a suitable uniform due to age and well most got fat some like me thin. Read on:

 

I did not want to detract from honoring the soldiers (actually some were women).

 

I still have a set of "Dress Blues". I have worn them on a few cruises years ago; U.S. Army dress uniform has "small" minature medals so the look is understated. Oh, I am "bilingual as my mother was from Wales.

 

Most us us in our "tux's" wore a very, very small set of flight wings, our regimental crest or a "DFC" Distinguished Flyling Cross" I did not earn a DFC. I do not wear my Purple Heart well either I was in a auto accident or something but I do not display any medal.

 

Since the Iraq war I have not worn anything. As I have yet to see a veteran of that war wear a set of dress blues on a cruise. Not their way yet I guess.

 

Tradition is the answer. At a Regimental event, I would wear my Dress Blues at a formal banquet, not if it was "off post", and we did not. On a cruise in wartime: no I would not. At our annual Regimental Dinner, yes, expect to if one has a set.

 

I survived Vietnam where I was ashamed and a bit afriad to wear my uniform from say 1968-76. Sad comment on my country.

 

When next I visit the UK and meet and such with my UK mates , no dress but I may wear an "Airborne" t-shirt or such.

 

If I was with a group of my brothers on a cruise, I would, that is different.

 

Most of the soldiers and veterans be they UK, USA, Canada or Commonwealth do not know what is "proper". Takes an active service Sgt major or field grade officer to keep up with such. So accept some confusion from the veterans.

 

For our UK cousins: if the ships officers wear medals, including Falklands, well you should as well! Us Yanks have not served in combat since Korea with the Brits and Canada but we did serve with Aussie's and Kiwi's in Vietnam and in the Gulf events. Sad but true: recent ones unpopular wars.

 

I would only say it is up to the veteran. I recall the wearing of certain flowers on a Tux was once a war tribute.

 

For a career soldier as myself the issue is different. One has to honor the Regiment, the branch of service: every "demand" of honour is different.

 

Some of my peers wear "Cavalry" hats like Custer! No, not on this cruise line please. Sing "Gary Owen" you Irish know that one:D

 

Who do, did we honor at our reunions? Our POW's who returned from WWII,

the old soldiers, my grand mentors.

 

So much loss, so many Mothers, Fathers, Brothers, Sisters with tears. I see a few here. I wear a "sailing jacket" (windbreaker) with a ships insignia, patch: no not mine but my Father-in-Law's, oh there is a smaller "Airborne" patch on the other side: folks are so cheerful and such for a son to honor his father-in-law. My feelings are certain. If Grandfather or such was in WWII or since, his daughters and grandaughters should wear a pin, or his sons, etc..

 

It is up to every veterans personal honor to decide.

 

Sort of like should every Londoner who was in the "Blitz" wear a pin? Or those who were there at 911?

 

Joe Doc

US Army retired

Regimental Historian (give the unit and I give out my name)

 

BTW even in a Tux most military can tell I was a soldier, perhaps the haircut?

[stowaway2k]

And never forget that modesty is one of the finest attributes of a gentleman, medals or no medals!

 

As is refraining from judgement about what others choose to wear.

[mufi]

As is refraining from judgement about what others choose to wear.

 

If you wish to dine on formal nights you can't.

 

David.

[HeelMD]

My thought is simple:

 

The only occasions that I have chosen to wear my medals were at military gatherings and one formal event of veterans of Korea that my Grandfather wanted me to attend with him. I have not worn medals at an event that wasn't a military-related event. However, if someone did I think it is their prerogative and I wouldn't have a problem with it. After all, they earned the medal and they should be able to decide. Those who make a big deal out of it and pass judgement really should find a hobby or something to fill their time a little more constructively.

 

For instance, if my Grandfather wore a lapel pin of his DFC at a formal event which he has done before and someone thought he was "tacky," I would think that the wardrobe police might be the tacky ones. If you want a formal event where you can puts dozens of restrictions on the attire, throw a party. If you want to attend one that is not of your directing...enjoy and meet new people and learn about them. I guarantee you will have more fun doing that than sitting in the corner with like-minded others passing judgement on dozens of others who would be very interesting to talk to and learn their stories.

[ricker]

Wearing of the military dress uniforms with decorations ads to the ambiance of most formal gatherings. On many voyages you will see anythig from the colorful Marine mess dress to the formal uniform of the Scots with a kilt. I have had wonderful coversations with those who served; one was at the Battle of Dunkirk and most had distinguishing careers. The wearing of the uniform or medals perhaps is no different from the other badges of success worn by civilians....you know, diamond earrings, designer clothes, etc. Maybe we shouldn't miss the opportunity to broaden our perspective because we are too concerned with appropriateness.

[mufi]

If you want a formal event where you can puts dozens of restrictions on the attire, throw a party. If you want to attend one that is not of your directing...enjoy and meet new people and learn about them. I guarantee you will have more fun doing that than sitting in the corner with like-minded others passing judgement on dozens of others who would be very interesting to talk to and learn their stories.

 

In fact there already are restrictions on the attire, which is why we wear formal dress on formal nights without the option, and I have never had any problem meeting and learning about people sans medals

 

You may have seen many men wearing medals to dinner aboard ships. I can not ever recall seeing any. The original question was whether the poster should wear his decorations. You and a few others think yes, others think no.

 

There is no reason to insult anyone over it.

 

David.

[HeelMD]

"You and a few others think yes, others think no."

 

Actually, I said that I think it should be up to the person who is considering it and I don't think there should be a rule one way or the other. If what I said was construed as an insult, it certainly wasn't meant that way and I don't know how it could be. I simply suggested that maybe minding our business in that situation and respecting others' decisions might be the only rule that should apply. JMO.

[COLMRS]

In fact there already are restrictions on the attire, which is why we wear formal dress on formal nights without the option, and I have never had any problem meeting and learning about people sans medals

 

You may have seen many men wearing medals to dinner aboard ships. I can not ever recall seeing any. The original question was whether the poster should wear his decorations. You and a few others think yes, others think no.

 

There is no reason to insult anyone over it.

 

David.

 

I have worn and intend to wear my medals on Formal Nights and speaking of no reason to insult anyone over it do not think it is TACKY.

[travel-to-go]

My, my!

Go offline a couple of days, and look what happens!

Children, CHILDREN!!!

Fight nicely! (As my mother used to say)

Or as a co-worker has been known to intone," Put a bowl of cream on the floor and close the door quickly!"

As in, Watch the cat fight from a safe distance!

Well, never having been one to put my personal safety above a good catfight....

CHILDREN!

The first rule of any ettiquette book indicates that it is MOST improper to point out anyone else's lack of proper ettiquette! Whispering behind the gloves (good for covering those oh-so-tacky wedding rings that won't come off for formal night, BTW) is also frowned upon by polite society. Honoring ones elders and ones betters (and by the way, proper humility should inform each of us that everyone is, in some way or another, your better) is always in good taste. Dictating clothing, jewelry, hats, gloves, uniforms, proper undergarments, taste in hairstyles and make-up, fingernail length, shoe heel height, sock color or interpretation of what is formal wear for those other than yourself, or perhaps your own small children in the privacy of your cabin is always in poor taste.

David, if you wish to be a strict interpretationalist of what is formal dress, I should be most happy to loan you one of mine. What size gown do you wear and what are your colors? Or do you wish to stick with the always-acceptible basic black. P.S. Don't wear pearls with that basic black. Mustn't rouse the angry no-jewelry-with-fomral-wear gods!

Honestly, people, haven't you got anything better to do with your lives than worry about whatever OTHER people are wearing? Let he (or she) among you who is without fashin sin.. etc, etc, etc.

What is tacky is being a fashon bigot! What is tasteless is criticizing people for their personal fashion choices. What is an unforgiveable faut pas is feeling superioristic about one's taste over that of others. What should be a justification for homicide is people who somehow think theirs doesn't stink, while bewailing the odiferous qualities of others'.

Get a real life, people! As my mother used to tell me, There are children starving in India! (And you know, it hasn't changed) or as Marc's Dad is wont to say, "Better than where there's none!"

 

I cannot believe the rudeness I have read here today. Most of it seeming to come from those who deem themselves arbiters of what is good and right for others. Some of the aforementioned would make good hellfire and brimstone preachers. And that is not a compliment. I am talking about the kind who point the accusatory finger at others' flaws with a blinding light which disguises their own. Watch out for the beam in your own eye, while noticing the mote in your brother's!

 

Can't we go back to whining about Brooklyn?

 

Karie,

Who is thoroughly disgusted with the childish-appearing behavior of some of our esteemed colleagues, and knows that they must have simply have mispoken. Or surely my lack of erudition has caused me to mis-interpret those statements which appear to criticize others' tastes, as I simply KNOW that no one here would do such a tacky thing! I know you are all much too polite and well-bred! (*)

[guernseyguy]

I've told this story before, but I think it bears repeating.....

 

Once, early in her premiership, Margaret Thatcher was horrified when she got to the palace to discover that she and the Queen were wearing identical outfits. When she got back to Downing Street, she had an aide telephone the palace to suggest that in future, Downing Street would call the palace ahead of an audience, to find out what the Queen was wearing, and if necessary, Mrs Thatcher would change. 'Oh, that won't be necessary' came the reply, 'the Queen never notices what anyone else is wearing!'

 

When I went to a Garden Party at Buckingham Palace (saw the top of the Queen's hat) the invitation did point out that 'Decorations are not to be worn'.

 

The original poster's question was 'is it appropriate to wear medals on formal nights'. As far as I have been able to find out, decorations are ONLY worn at military occasions (Rememberance Day) or when invited to do so by the host. Medals are only worn with full uniform. Ribbons or pins are worn with suits. Some posters have mentioned seeing Officers (in Dress Uniform) wearing decorations - if I recall correctly, I only saw this at the Captain's Cocktail Party - not in general or at dinner. So, I suspect the 'correct' answer to the original question is 'no'. The original souce I quoted on this was from the US military - if anyone has an alternative source, with different advice it would be interesting to see it.

 

Peter

[travel-to-go]

 

When I went to a Garden Party at Buckingham Palace (saw the top of the Queen's hat) the invitation did point out that 'Decorations are not to be worn'.

 

Peter

 

Well, I rarely wear tinsel, garlands, ornaments, bunting, table skirts, posters, spinning disco balls, pinatas, crepe paper, or other common decorations.

 

Well, maybe the occasional flashing light strand!<G>

 

But never an angel on top!

 

Karie, who has been known to be a bit indecorative at times.

[HeelMD]

Karie,

 

You have transformed this thread from one that was trying my patience and making me worry about who I will be surrounded by on my inaugural QM2 cruise next year to one of delight. Thank you for your thoughts and, might I say, I think you would be a fantastic table-mate at formal night.

[travel-to-go]

Karie,

 

You have transformed this thread from one that was trying my patience and making me worry about who I will be surrounded by on my inaugural QM2 cruise next year to one of delight. Thank you for your thoughts and, might I say, I think you would be a fantastic table-mate at formal night.

Aw, shucks!

 

I'd be honored to be one of your tablemates!

(And I promise I wouldn't ask any gynecological questions...especially at dinner!<G>)

 

P.S. You could wear anything you wanted. Including a tutu, if it so pleases you, and I would think you had a marvelous sense of humor, and were not too full of yourself!

 

Thank you, kind sir!

 

Karie,

who hopes we leave our beleaguered vets and other folks who have little chance to show off those things they are proud of alone now.

[jackatsea]

Aw, shucks!

gynaecological questions...especially at dinner!<G>)

 

Ah, this one I know.

 

"gynaecological questions/histories" should only be asked/revealed between the first and last course.

 

Wearing of medals will of course always be optional. However, a gynaecological doctor medal will probably get the most envious glances from combat engineers! (grin)

 

Jack

[mariaemp675@hotmail.com]

Ah Karie,

 

I wish I had seen this two days ago.

 

Gurnseyguy,

 

I had the priviledge of meeting Karie and Marc on the 1/3 - /15 cruise and they are grate fun to be around. You should have seen them on Pirate Night. They were a sight to behold! Enough said.

 

Maria - who will see the again on the QM2 Labor Day cruise to Halifax.:D

[TinAngel]

I went through a stack of US military and US Code (law) regulations, he is a summary,

 

When wearing civilian clothing except for civilian awards, lapel buttons, or rosettes intended for wear with civilian clothing. Soldiers may wear miniature medals on formal civilian attire at formal social functions when wearing the Army uniform would be inappropriate or not authorized.

Above for all US military: active, retires and any veteran.

 

That cover the Yank official and traditional policy. Be advised the proof is in current legislation.

 

For Active Duty and Reserve or Guard and retired (medically or did 20-40 years) there is some latitude for the Officer or Enlisted service member and retiree to decide.

 

The wearing of a uniform (dress, mess) by active duty depends on the command. Retired are obligated to wear the uniform they were discharged in.

I did see mention as to be sure it fits (i.e. if you got fat or thin). There are many, many rules and laws on when and where a US retired soldier can wear his dress uniform. Cannot do a commercial, attend a political event etc. Without permission.

 

Each branch of service has published guidelines and they do differ as to minor issues. Wearing a uniform in a foreign country requires appoval from either the Embassy or any US Command in that country.

 

But as the Brits have titles and such: Americans do not actually have

that right. But that has been messed with by a few groups. I am very much thinking that wearing a fathers or husbands mini medal is proper jewerly for a orphan or widow, as with a sister or brother.

 

I see on another thread that such as FDNY or FD Denver wear their dress uniform, they should on a cruise. I do often wear a small Flight or Airborne wings on a Tux. Subtle, small. Meet fellow vets, aviators and medics.

 

If in the UK on any special Rememberance Day I'd bring the uniform, no doubt.

On a Cunard liner? Not me but I am not a judge.

 

Many of our comrades are laid to rest in a uniform, I do get "tacky" HMS Pinafore, what?

 

Go ahead wear as policy and tradition allow for "subtle" decorations on your Tux or suit.

 

 

 

Doc

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

he original poster's question was 'is it appropriate to wear medals on formal nights'. As far as I have been able to find out, decorations are ONLY worn at military occasions (Rememberance Day) or when invited to do so by the host. Medals are only worn with full uniform. Ribbons or pins are worn with suits. Some posters have mentioned seeing Officers (in Dress Uniform) wearing decorations - if I recall correctly, I only saw this at the Captain's Cocktail Party - not in general or at dinner. So, I suspect the 'correct' answer to the original question is 'no'. The original souce I quoted on this was from the US military - if anyone has an alternative source, with different advice it would be interesting to see it.

 

Seems we have the same US sources, Naval and Marine Corps policy may be ribbons only, Army ok's mini-medals. Retired have restrictions, veterans cannot wear the uniform but can mini awards or a small metal "ribbon" as many US Senators and a few Presidents have. JFK, LBJ, Bob Dole, etc.

 

I like the idea at a Captain's event: did have a label set of Airborne Wings (jump wings) or just a set of wings. The Captain did notice.

Take Good Care..

[Kindlychap]

If an American veteran requires formal permission to wear uniform etc. outside the US, then he (or she) had better remember that QM2 is British soil, so to speak!

[TinAngel]

If an American veteran requires formal permission to wear uniform etc. outside the US, then he (or she) had better remember that QM2 is British soil, so to speak!

 

Yes!

 

Issues is than "Yanks" (me) can and do at many functions in the UK.

 

If the "Brit's" do not do so then spread the word, I trust we will agree and it will cease.

 

WE (The UK and America) have been allies in way to many wars, so many lost, died in youth. Yes, regardless of who owns the liner it is still British.

The Flag says it all.

 

Honor or Honour.

 

If the "Lads" as they were in youth those "Tommy's" do not wear such then no Yank can do so with any reason.

 

 

Simple: you solved the issue. Thank You, Sir.

 

You reminded us (Yanks) of what you did in the two "World Wars", so many died, so many women and children.

 

Honor Honour is just that. I thank you.

 

 

But we still are and were always a great team, another "Band Of Brothers"

 

 

Yes, I have voiced the words to "God Save The Queen" at many a Regimental meeting.

 

 

And yes: any American should know it is a British liner. But good to remind them.

 

But "my mates" are Royal Para Regiment" blokes, we see such in a thin view:

Arnham; Normandy, and such. That "Bridge To Far" era.

 

Few Yanks saw as much as a British "Mum" in Coventry, London, Portsmouth or such. My "Mum" was from Wales.

 

We do actually love each other but you folks in the UK should post with that noted as most younger Americans have no idea about the "Blitz" and such.

 

Thank you.

 

A Yank

[48is24is1]

The answer you gave is the exact answer given by Headquarters Marine Corps in reference to Marines wearing their Evening Dress uniform. Medals can't be worn, only ribbons. I was told that medals can't be worn to off base (non-military) functions. Thank you for taking the time to post your information. The uniform regulations can be difficult to understand.