QV keel laying ceremony today May 19

[pepperrn]

The cars were roll on, roll off. They used to drive up through shell door, then into a 'Thunderbirds' style lift, that rotated through about 90 degrees. After the lift it went into 5 hold, and got lashed down there. #3 hold (forward) hasn't been used for cars for some time. #5 hold was last used a couple of years ago,

 

The cars entered on 4 deck (forward between 4022/4034 4021/4033 and aft between 4236/4248 4235/4243) and after decending to 7 deck (aft) or 8 deck (forward) the platform the car was standing on turned 90 degrees to face fore and aft (or any angle to make them easier to store?). Forward was (as Hardastarboard says) 3 hold and 5 aft.

 

Prices for taking your car with you TA (in 1982 for example) were from £110 to £1370 (return) dependant on the car's weight. First Class fares TA were £1295 return (both ways by sea) for a outside on 2/3 deck (peak season).

 

As an aside, Queen Grill fares (TA sea/air) were up to £2860.

[KenC]

Hi Pepper

 

Fascinating stuff - where did you find out this information???

 

Ken

[guernseyguy]

As an aside, Queen Grill fares (TA sea/air) were up to £2860.

 

Adjusting for inflation that would be ~£6750 today, and for a July crossing, the cheapest Q7 is £5,900 - and the most expensive up to £26,000.....so despite the cost of cruising falling in general - looks like Cunard have managed to keep QG pricing high.......Pepper, if you have other prices, the 1982 equivalent of the cheapest inside (£1870) is £785.....

 

Peter

[pepperrn]

Hi Pepper

 

Fascinating stuff - where did you find out this information???

 

Ken

 

Ken

 

For the fares.... I cheated, I'm looking at a 1982 Cunard brochure!

 

For the car lift info, I looked at the 1969 deck plans and then checked in a couple of books (actually the plans may be slightly earlier then '69 or a combination of early plans and '69 ones as "Frist class, Cabin Class and Tourist Class" cabin areas appear on it).

[pepperrn]

Pepper, if you have other prices, the 1982 equivalent of the cheapest inside (£1870) is £785.....

 

Peter

 

Peter

 

Inside, "M" grade, "bed and upper" double room "Transatlantic Class" 2/4/5 deck peak season sea/air is £685.

[KenC]

Ken

 

For the fares.... I cheated, I'm looking at a 1982 Cunard brochure!

 

For the car lift info, I looked at the 1969 deck plans and then checked in a couple of books (actually the plans may be slightly earlier then '69 or a combination of early plans and '69 ones as "Frist class, Cabin Class and Tourist Class" cabin areas appear on it).

 

Pepper

 

Duh .... I've got a 79 brochure - why didn't I think of that??? Sounds like those 69 plans might be worth hanging onto if they show 1st, Cabin and Tourist???

 

Excuse the curiousity - but I note you are 'at sea'??? Are you RN???

 

Regards

 

Ken

[dougnewmanatsea]

Must admit that I have always agreed that it was unfortunate for Cunard to create another Queen when she is not intended primarily for transatlantic service.

Or transatlantic service at all!

 

She should have been given a "cruising" name. CARMANIA, FRANCONIA, CARONIA, something like that.

 

My preferred names were Mauretania or Aquitania - they would be far more amazing and iconic than QV

Why does this ship deserve to be an icon ;) ?

 

Must say that the frenzied criticism by many of the use of the word 'oceanliner' is a bit harder to swallow. When is an oceanliner not an oceanliner - or when is a cruiseship not a cruiseship?

Everyone has different definitions of what makes a cruise ship, and what makes an ocean liner.

 

Personally, I think there are two equally definitions of an ocean liner:

(1) A ship which was designed and built for liner service

(2) A ship which performs liner service

 

QE2, today, qualifies for (1) but not (2). QM2 qualifies for both. QV... Neither one.

 

But of course, the entire Cunard brand identity these days is centered around the premise that all Cunarders are liners and everything else is a cruise ship. And so, they have to call QV a "liner", even though she is not.

 

Note that "cruise ship" is a dirty word at Cunard, used to describe other people's ships! They do not even like to use the word "cruise". Recently, I have noticed that more and more, they are using "voyage" instead of "cruise", as though a cruise aboard a Cunarder is more of a line voyage and less of a cruise. Nonsense, of course, but that's beside the point.

 

If you really want to get the liner-snobs going, you can always point out that its really 'just' a ferry

Yes, "just" ;) !

 

Even cruise-ship people are snobs when it comes to ferries! But there are some wonderful ferries out there. PONT-AVEN looks especially magnificent, and her decor is so much more imaginative and stylish than any cruise ship built in the last decade. And what of the Hurtigruten ships, which are somewhere in between liner, cruise ship, and ferry?

 

I just object very strongly to Cunard's ridiculous efforts to attempt to convince us that QUEEN VICTORIA is something more than an ordinary cruise ship, by virtue of the fact that will be painted in Cunard livery! And naming an ordinary cruise ship a "QUEEN" is almost insulting. But then, we've been over that one a lot of times already!

 

How cruel. It was 12 cars :)

That was at the end! Originally it was much more. The space got eaten away over the years by such newfangled frivolities as sewage treatment.

 

And remember, to date the record for biggest "car ferry" continues to be held by... NORMANDIE!!!

[guernseyguy]

Peter

Inside, "M" grade, "bed and upper" double room "Transatlantic Class" 2/4/5 deck peak season sea/air is £685.

 

Interesting - and while we can't know what people actually paid then or now....Cunard may have been able to hold or slightly increase prices in real terms - unlike the rest of the industry (if what the industry says is true.....) No wonder Mickey likes the QE2.....

 

Peter

 

PS, I still cherish his comment on what he liked most about the then new QM2 - 'her advance bookings'!

[pepperrn]

Pepper

 

Duh .... I've got a 79 brochure - why didn't I think of that??? Sounds like those 69 plans might be worth hanging onto if they show 1st, Cabin and Tourist???

 

Excuse the curiousity - but I note you are 'at sea'??? Are you RN???

 

Regards

 

Ken

 

Ken

 

I'm jealous, I can only go back as far as '82. Wish I had collected more. I've a few brochures from the early 80's of Canberra as well. The plans are in a book, so no value I'm afraid. I have a few other deck plans (real ones this time!) of various Cunard/Union Castle/Liners/Ships from the early 60's.

 

("At sea" ? not any more, wishful thinking (should really read "all at sea" !!!). Couldn't find anyone else with a location "at sea" and wishing I still was, so that's what I put).

[pepperrn]

 

And naming an ordinary cruise ship a "QUEEN" is almost insulting.

 

And remember, to date the record for biggest "car ferry" continues to be held by... NORMANDIE!!!

 

I agree Doug, and I fear that's how (despite all the talk of strengthening the bows) she'll turn out, an ordinary cruise ship.

 

Normandie? what, 27,541 tons, 1992 cross channel ferry? Biggest?

JUST TEASING!

[KenC]

........ She should have been given a "cruising" name. CARMANIA, FRANCONIA, CARONIA, something like that.

 

Why does this ship deserve to be an icon ;) ?

 

The names are iconic not the ship - she's not even built yet!!! The other names you list above were all liners too - why does a ship have to have a "cruising" name to be a cruiseship????

 

..... Everyone has different definitions of what makes a cruise ship, and what makes an ocean liner.

 

Personally, I think there are two equally definitions of an ocean liner:

(1) A ship which was designed and built for liner service

(2) A ship which performs liner service

 

QE2, today, qualifies for (1) but not (2). QM2 qualifies for both. QV... Neither one.

 

Well you would say that in defence of the old girl's reputation wouldn't you!

 

.. I just object very strongly to Cunard's ridiculous efforts to attempt to convince us that QUEEN VICTORIA is something more than an ordinary cruise ship, by virtue of the fact that will be painted in Cunard livery! And naming an ordinary cruise ship a "QUEEN" is almost insulting. But then, we've been over that one a lot of times already! !!!

 

She is the second largest Cunarder ever built and I think you are over reacting slightly!!!! I don't think Joe Public is really that concerned whether Cunard call her a liner or cruiseship, do you?

 

....And remember, to date the record for biggest "car ferry" continues to be held by... NORMANDIE!!!

 

But what about the fastest "car ferry" title - surely QE2 must be up there with a chance???? Never mind, one day I'm sure you will be the owner of one of the fastest paperweights in the world!!!!

 

Yours ever so unseriously

 

Ken

[dougnewmanatsea]

I agree Doug, and I fear that's how (despite all the talk of strengthening the bows) she'll turn out, an ordinary cruise ship.

And with faux-Victorian kitsch interiors too!

 

I am not categorically against "retro" interiors, but they need to be very careful. From the renderings I've seen, they have the potential to be quite awful. We won't know for certain until she's finished, but as so far I think there has only been one successful attempt at a "retro" cruise ship interior (DEUTSCHLAND), I would not say that the prospects are so great.

 

Beside that, I can't help but get the feeling that they decided that since the ship is going to be called QUEEN VICTORIA, she should be "Victorian" inside! It sounds like something a mass-market line would do, like - dare I say - Carnival!

 

The first QUEEN VICTORIA - which became ARCADIA - was supposed to be a "modern British cruise ship". While that ship was totally unsuitable as a Cunard Queen, at least it was a good idea! A modern British cruise ship, I think they could pull off quite nicely. A "classic ocean liner" with "Victorian" interiors is decidedly harder to do without screwing up!

The names are iconic not the ship - she's not even built yet!!! The other names you list above were all liners too - why does a ship have to have a "cruising" name to be a cruiseship????

Well, she's a cruise ship, so I thought it might be nice for her to have a name that has historically been associated with cruising.

 

Well you would say that in defence of the old girl's reputation wouldn't you!

Well, at the very least, QE2 is a former (part-time) liner. QV is just a fake liner ;) !

 

I don't think Joe Public is really that concerned whether Cunard call her a liner or cruiseship, do you?

Of course not! Joe Public probably thinks the two things are the same, anyway, which makes it rather amusing that Cunard goes to such great lengths to emphasize "liner".

 

I just wish they didn't emphasize it so much in connection with ships that aren't ;) !

 

But what about the fastest "car ferry" title - surely QE2 must be up there with a chance????

NORMANDIE was faster and larger!

 

She might qualify as the fastest "conventional" car ferry, but "fast ferries" are of course faster.

[pepperrn]

And with faux-Victorian kitsch interiors too!

 

I am not categorically against "retro" interiors, but they need to be very careful. From the renderings I've seen, they have the potential to be quite awful. We won't know for certain until she's finished, but as so far I think there has only been one successful attempt at a "retro" cruise ship interior (DEUTSCHLAND), I would not say that the prospects are so great.

 

Beside that, I can't help but get the feeling that they decided that since the ship is going to be called QUEEN VICTORIA, she should be "Victorian" inside! It sounds like something a mass-market line would do, like - dare I say - Carnival!

 

The first QUEEN VICTORIA - which became ARCADIA - was supposed to be a "modern British cruise ship". While that ship was totally unsuitable as a Cunard Queen, at least it was a good idea! A modern British cruise ship, I think they could pull off quite nicely. A "classic ocean liner" with "Victorian" interiors is decidedly harder to do without screwing up!

 

 

Doug,

 

I agree with every word you've said here. Whilst QM2's interiors turned out better (IMHO) than the CGI pics put out in advance, I have little hope the same will be true of QV's, but I'm hoping so! Why they couldn't have a light modern interior design like so many boutique hotels around the world I don't know. Instead we have "theme park" Victoriana, the "Golden Lion" on a massive scale (and just as fake).

[guernseyguy]

The news report in Cruise Critic:

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=1665

 

Claims that.....

 

Because Queen Victoria is being designed as an ocean liner rather than a traditional cruise ship, it has a different superstructure, and a strengthened hull and bow.

 

Funnily enough, when P&O took over ARCADIA from Cunard - they said they put more steel in the bow - so very difficult to verify - but 'different superstructure'? I haven't seen anything from the deck plans to suggest that....anyone got any ideas?

 

Peter

 

 

[guernseyguy]

Why they couldn't have a light modern interior design like so many boutique hotels around the world I don't know.

 

Now THAT would have been true to the heritage of QM, QE and QE2 - ALL were designed to be modern and contemporary when they came out - and with QV, the Disneyfication of Cunard continues. I'm not too sure we'll see a spiral staircase in the Library either - tricky to navigate on those rough 'ocean voyages' QV is going to be no doubt doing......

 

Peter

[KenC]

Why won't they ley you delete duplicate posts????

[KenC]

The news report in Cruise Critic:

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=1665

 

Claims that.....

 

Because Queen Victoria is being designed as an ocean liner rather than a traditional cruise ship, it has a different superstructure, and a strengthened hull and bow.

 

Peter /I]

 

"Based on an 85,000gt Vista-class hull, the newbuild is 11mtr longer and tonnage has been increased to 90,000gt and lower berths 2,014. 'From her hull upwards she is totally different from the HAL vessels both in design and construction,' Giovanni Esposito, project manager for Carnival Corporate Shipbuilding at Marghera told Seatrade Insider.

 

At 294mtr Queen Victoria is one metre longer than QE2 and the maximum length permissible to enable transit through the Panama Canal. Her hull and bow have been strengthened for better sea-keeping performance".

 

Who knows????

 

Ken

[guernseyguy]

"From her hull upwards she is totally different from the HAL vessels both in design and construction,' Giovanni Esposito, project manager for Carnival Corporate Shipbuilding at Marghera told Seatrade Insider.

 

Then I wonder why the deck plans are remarkably similar?!?

 

Peter

[KenC]

Then I wonder why the deck plans are remarkably similar?!?

 

Peter

 

One thing I have noticed recently is that there is a hint of some sort of 'whaleback' feature in the external rendering of the ship and on 4 Deck plan - any ideas????

 

Ken

[guernseyguy]

One thing I have noticed recently is that there is a hint of some sort of 'whaleback' feature in the external rendering of the ship and on 4 Deck plan - any ideas???? Ken

 

Yes, I had spotted that too - would make a lovely Ocean Liner 'Garden Lounge' - but as its not on the deck plan, I'm guessing its crew space.

 

Peter

[KenC]

Doug,

 

I agree with every word you've said here. Whilst QM2's interiors turned out better (IMHO) than the CGI pics put out in advance, I have little hope the same will be true of QV's, but I'm hoping so! Why they couldn't have a light modern interior design like so many boutique hotels around the world I don't know. Instead we have "theme park" Victoriana, the "Golden Lion" on a massive scale (and just as fake).

 

Pepper & Doug & Peter

 

I disagree - take a closer look at the CGI's and you will see that it is not faux Victoriana/Edwardian at all. Ok there are some 'historic' references in some of the designs, but on closer inspection they are far from faux and have many classic/contemporary design features. I have just seen the new 2007/2008 and 2008 world cruise brochures and Cunard have surpassed their previous efforts - excellent!!! The larger pics of QV show the CGI's in more detail hence the defence above!!! The QV wc itinerary is superb and doesn't seem to suffer from the fact that she is soooooooooooo slow at ONLY 23 Knots!!!

 

Ken

[guernseyguy]

Ken,

 

How would you characterise the Queen Vic's decor? Cunard describes its 'interiors as warmly reminiscent of a more gracious era' ....its not '50s minimalist modern, nor '30s Deco.....look at the ceiling in the Queen's Room - at least it matches the 'swirly boarding house hell' carpet on the floor! Art Nouveau....with the emphasis on nouveau......:eek:

 

Peter

 

Who just got his brochure - which is jolly handsome - as he read this post.

[KenC]

Ken,

..... look at the ceiling in the Queen's Room - at least it matches the 'swirly boarding house hell' carpet on the floor! Art Nouveau....with the emphasis on nouveau......:eek:

 

Peter

 

Who just got his brochure - which is jolly handsome - as he read this post.

 

Hey .... that's the same blue carpet design as QM2's Queen's Room (boarding house hell carpets are red!!! - I should know!!!) I suspect the chandeliers are supposed to be the same also (very difficult for a computer to show that sort of light fitting to good effect - no sparkle !!)

 

What do you think of the QV wc itinerary???? I'd be there in a heartbeat as our cousins say (oh well keep doing the lottery Ken)

 

Ken

[guernseyguy]

What do you think of the QV wc itinerary???? I'd be there in a heartbeat as our cousins say (oh well keep doing the lottery Ken) Ken

 

Not bad for a slow coach - TWO canals - the QE2 generally only uses one!;)

 

Peter

 

PS

 

What decorative school would you ascribe to the Queen Vic's 'Hemisphere's' - late Joe Farcus, imho.....and the Commodore club has a touch of the Golden Lions about it.....the whole thing really looks like the revenge of the halogen spotlight - what ever happened to uplighters and indirect lighting?

[guernseyguy]

closer inspection they are far from faux and have many classic/contemporary design features.

 

Ken,

 

I'm missing them - can you suggest some examples? You do make a fair point in one respect - the Edwardian liners were riotous pastiches of a variety of historical styles - with the AQUITANIA probably the worst offender of them all.......so the Queen Vic is carrying on that tradition at least....

 

Peter