RMS Queen Victoria

[guernseyguy]

According to this: http://travelvideo.tv/news/more.php?id=9462_0_1_0_M....though given the number of mistakes (Quiz - which deck is the QE2's Library on?) and on the QM2 is the Golden Lion really "one of the ship's most popular dining venues"? Oh well, 'bolt-on heritage'. I had read elsewhere that the QE2, no longer performing line voyages, was no longer RMS....but maybe the Post Office has got into marketing too!

 

Peter

[KenC]

Oh go on Peter, you know you are going to like her .......... sooner or later !!!

 

Ken

waiting to book QV maiden year !!!!

[sailorbill]

Super trivia question (to which I do not know the answer!) -

 

How much mail does Queen Mary 2 have to carry on each crossing in order to maintain the designation Royal Mail Ship?

 

And if the answer is nil, nada, nuthin', then why would the RMS designation need to be taken away from QEII?

 

Since dry land postal mail is now considered "snail mail", will any mail carried by Queen Victoria be known as "sea slug mail" ??

 

Bill

who is amused by quaint and curious customs

[KenC]

Think it has more to do with having a contract with the Post Office rather than actually how much mail, if any, a ship carries ???? Don't know whether QE2 ever had RMS, but as she no longer does line voyages then there's not much chance of her carrying mail is there ????

 

Ken

[dougnewmanatsea]

As far as I know, both QUEENs are still RMS. I guess QV will be, also.

 

This is because Cunard's mail contract never officially ended, even though they don't still carry any.

 

As for the QM2 Golden Lion, it is my understanding that they do have food in there, unlike QE2's which is strictly a bar.

 

I think they are both equally hideous spaces but I might actually patronize QM2's if they can serve decent fish and chips which is something they did not seem capable of aboard QE2 ("chips" turning out to be American French fries, not British chips).

[guernseyguy]

As for the QM2 Golden Lion, it is my understanding that they do have food in there, unlike QE2's which is strictly a bar.

 

It does - jolly tasty snake & pygmie pie - just its a bit of a stretch to call it 'one of the ship's most popular dining venues...'

 

Peter

[pepperrn]

I always thought that if a ship was a "R M S" a flag was flown, so does QE2 fly a Royal Mail flag?

 

(QM2 did last time I saw her.)

[Calliope]

I've never seen a Royal Mail or for that matter a U.S. Mail pennant flying on any of the mail boats I've been on. That includes the QE2, when she was the R.M.S. QUEEN ELIZABETH 2, QM2, R.M.S. SEGWUN (Royal Canadian Mail), and the DELTA QUEEN, MISSISSIPPI QUEEN, and AMERICAN QUEEN, which carry the U.S. Mail.

[david,Mississauga]

I've never seen a Royal Mail or for that matter a U.S. Mail pennant flying on any of the mail boats I've been on. That includes the QE2, when she was the R.M.S. QUEEN ELIZABETH 2, QM2, R.M.S. SEGWUN (Royal Canadian Mail), and the DELTA QUEEN, MISSISSIPPI QUEEN, and AMERICAN QUEEN, which carry the U.S. Mail.

 

The Royal Mail Ships of the late lamented Union-Castle Line (last passenger ships retired in 1977) definitely carried the Royal Mail flag.

[Kindlychap]

RMS Queen Elizabeth was the correct title until the end of the tandem crossing, and henceforth the correct title is MV Queen Elizabeth 2.

 

Having said that, the Chief Officer wasn't able to give a definitive answer when I discussed it with him and the Third Officer. Neither officer had given it much thought. But we, having thought about it, concluded that she couldn't have a Royal Mail contract (which is of course what makes an RMS an RMS) and therefore the analysis of KenC is correct.

 

(Scary - agreeing with Ken about QE2!)

 

MV Queen Victoria will not be an RMS either.

[dougnewmanatsea]

But we, having thought about it, concluded that she couldn't have a Royal Mail contract (which is of course what makes an RMS an RMS) and therefore the analysis of KenC is correct.

I have to disagree with you here.

 

From what I have been told, the contract is for the Company, not a specific ship. The reason QM2 is an RMS is that the original mail contract awarded to Samuel Cunard in (I think) 1838 is still valid, so they are still entitled to use "RMS" for their ships.

 

This would make QE2 and QM2 both RMS and would afford the future QV the same title as well. I guess it also would have made CARONIA (ex VISTAFJORD) an RMS though I never heard her referred to as such.

[guernseyguy]

From what I have been told, the contract is for the Company, not a specific ship. I guess it also would have made CARONIA (ex VISTAFJORD) an RMS though I never heard her referred to as such.

 

Digging around I found the following site on CARONIA (II):

 

http://www.*****.info/

 

Which describes her as RMS - but also has original Cunard a/w where she is a more lowly M/V.....perhaps she was RMS on the Transatlantic runs, and an M/V while cruising....... but then why would the North Cape Cruise show her as 'RMS':

 

http://www.*****.info/nc52advt.php

 

 

Peter

[Kindlychap]

IFrom what I have been told, the contract is for the Company, not a specific ship. The reason QM2 is an RMS is that the original mail contract awarded to Samuel Cunard in (I think) 1838 is still valid, so they are still entitled to use "RMS" for their ships.

 

This would make QE2 and QM2 both RMS and would afford the future QV the same title as well. I guess it also would have made CARONIA (ex VISTAFJORD) an RMS though I never heard her referred to as such.

 

I really do hope you're right. I'm not convinced, but am looking to be persuaded!

[pb82]

What concerns me, based on the QV deck plans I've seen, is that the grill dinning rooms are as high on the ship as you can go. Are grill passengers presumed to come with anti-roll stomachs?

[Kindlychap]

What concerns me, based on the QV deck plans I've seen, is that the grill dinning rooms are as high on the ship as you can go. Are grill passengers presumed to come with anti-roll stomachs?

 

Perhaps it is to make it easier to see if she flys a Royal Mail pennant!

[guernseyguy]

What concerns me, based on the QV deck plans I've seen, is that the grill dinning rooms are as high on the ship as you can go. Are grill passengers presumed to come with anti-roll stomachs?

 

Stabilisers can dampen a lot of the roll these days - the one thing no one can do anything about is pitching - which - being midships - should be minimised in the QV's Grill restaurants. In fact, I suspect their location on the QV is better than the Queens' Grill on the QE2, which is not only on the highest deck, but is also for'ard, where pitching will be more pronounced. On the old Queens (and as initially intended on the QE2) it was First Class midships, Second class aft and Third class for'ard.

 

Peter

[KenC]

........ therefore the analysis of KenC is correct.

 

(Scary - agreeing with Ken about QE2!)........

 

Welcome to the Twilight Zone ..... Kindlychap !!!!!

 

I have to disagree with you here.

 

From what I have been told, the contract is for the Company, not a specific ship. The reason QM2 is an RMS is that the original mail contract awarded to Samuel Cunard in (I think) 1838 is still valid, so they are still entitled to use "RMS" for their ships.

 

This would make QE2 and QM2 both RMS and would afford the future QV the same title as well. I guess it also would have made CARONIA (ex VISTAFJORD) an RMS though I never heard her referred to as such.

 

Samuel Cunard won the contract to carry royal mail to North America - but that contract had a time limit and was renewed and renegotiated several times. Cunard were contract bound to provide a certain frequency of sailings to deliver this mail to the USA/Canada so one would assume that those ships built and used for this service would be designated RMS's. Other ships used for other services would presumably not be RMS.

 

Caronia (2) was built to sail alongside the Queens and Mauretania (2) in 1950's transatlantic service presumably carrying mail and making her a RMS. It is hardly likely that later cruiseship such as Cunard Countess etc. would be classed as mail ships.

 

Perhaps, as mail was carried by planes by the time QE2 began her transatlantic career in 1970 and Cunard were then trying hard to move away from its 'traditional' image - maybe she was never designated RMS (shock horror!!!)??? Why otherwise would the former Cunard CEO Pam Conover make a point of announcing that, after discussions with the Post Office, QM2 was to be designated RMS at the naming ceremony in 2004???

 

Unless Queen Victoria is planned to do some transatlantic line voyages, it seems unlikely that she will be A RMS either.

 

 

Ken

[guernseyguy]

Unless Queen Victoria is planned to do some transatlantic line voyages, it seems unlikely that she will be A RMS either.

Ken

 

Ken,

 

Since when has logic got you anywhere on the Cunard board? :)

 

The article that started this thread said:

 

When Queen Victoria debuts in late 2007, she will continue Cunard's legendary British heritage with a Royal Mail postbox onboard.

 

...which seems to suggest that Cunard thinks it can stick potboxes on ships and call them RMS.....

 

Peter

[Peter_LT]

Hello Folks,

 

Does RMS stand for Royal Mail Ship, or Royal Mail Steamship? I seem to

remember some of Union Castle's ships, and indeed Cunard's last Britannic

being being called RMMV, (Royal Mail Motor Vessel), so should not the

present day ships be RMMV also?

 

As for carrying mails, it's my belief that if there is a consignment to go by

surface mail between ports of call, say Southampton to New York, then

to Rio, then any of Cunard's ship can be contracted to carry it, if the current

itinerary is amenable.

 

As for the 'Green Goddess', she was always designated as RMS Caronia. Any

references to MV are an error on the part of the people preparing their

documentation. Once she was sold, she became T.S.S. Caribia.

 

Regards,

Steve (Peter S.)

Caronia II Timeline Webmaster

< http://www.*****.info/ >

[guernseyguy]

Hello Steve,

 

First, congratulations on your wonderful CARONIA website - I had the pleasure of sailing on CARONIA (III) - but would have loved to sail on CARONIA (II). Do you know if John Prescott ever serve on her?

 

As far as I can tell, in RMS the S can stand for 'ship' or 'steamer' - and RMMV (motor vessel) or RMMS (motor ship) are 'less common', or so Wikipedia says:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RMMV

 

 

Peter

[Peter_LT]

First, congratulations on your wonderful CARONIA website - I had the pleasure

of sailing on CARONIA (III) - but would have loved to sail on CARONIA (II).

Do you know if John Prescott ever serve on her?

 

Hello Peter,

Many thanks for the kind words about the Caronia Timeline. I'm afraid that

mention of "that man's" name does not hang well with me. He didn't sail on

the 'Green Goddess', but his actions unfortunately did contribute to her demise,

along with many other famous British ships.

 

I cover this topic in some detail here...

 

Regards,

Steve (Peter S.)

Caronia II Timeline Webmaster

< http://www.*****.info/ >

[guernseyguy]

I'm afraid that mention of "that man's" name does not hang well with me. He didn't sail on the 'Green Goddess',

 

I sort of guessed that they only let the rather better staff sail on her - when I crossed on CARONIA (III) I chatted with a German lady who had served on the Queen Mary post war, and as Cunard were desperate to get her to continue she was able to get assigned to CARONIA....clearly the plum jobs!

 

Peter

[dougnewmanatsea]

Samuel Cunard won the contract to carry royal mail to North America - but that contract had a time limit and was renewed and renegotiated several times.

I didn't say that it was never renewed, just that it is technically still valid in some way.

 

I don't understand this; but it was what I was told when QM2 was built.

 

It is hardly likely that later cruiseship such as Cunard Countess etc. would be classed as mail ships.

Hmm, can an RMS be registered in the Bahamas?

 

I am quite sure they were not referred to as RMS, anyway!

 

Perhaps, as mail was carried by planes by the time QE2 began her transatlantic career in 1970 and Cunard were then trying hard to move away from its 'traditional' image - maybe she was never designated RMS (shock horror!!!)???

She was definitely designated as an RMS. She even carried mail on her maiden voyage which was specially marked as having been carried on hthe maiden voyage of RMS QUEEN ELIZABETH 2.

 

However, I do not think she regularly carried mail, that is aside from that which was (and still can be) posted aboard of course.

 

Why otherwise would the former Cunard CEO Pam Conover make a point of announcing that, after discussions with the Post Office, QM2 was to be designated RMS at the naming ceremony in 2004???

I don't know what that has to do with QE2 being an RMS?

 

Yes, I do believe Cunard consulted with the Royal Mail to ensure that they were able to use RMS and of course they did get the go-ahead.

 

Does RMS stand for Royal Mail Ship, or Royal Mail Steamship?

As far as I know, it is "Royal Mail Ship" or else there would not be RMS QUEEN MARY 2, RMS ST. HELENA, etc.

 

Perhaps it once stood for "Royal Mail Steamer" but was later changed to "Royal Mail Ship" as motorships became more prevalent?

[travel-to-go]

She was definitely designated as an RMS. She even carried mail on her maiden voyage which was specially marked as having been carried on hthe maiden voyage of RMS QUEEN ELIZABETH 2.

 

However, I do not think she regularly carried mail, that is aside from that which was (and still can be) posted aboard of course.

 

I'm not taking sides here. It's like the argument over what "makes" a Commodore. Whoever is in a position to name that (person/ship) that at the time!

But I guess if the criterion were posting mail aboard, then every ship I have been on so far is entitled to carry the designation of MS (whether royal, from one country or another, or not!)

I know. Doug did not say that.

But it does seem like these are totally arbitrary desginations (according to Wikipedia, and I can't find anything else to back it up yea, or nay). It's really like calling yourself the emperor of your home, or chief grand poobah of some society that you have just made up. It's only meaningful if people think it's meaningful, and believe in the authority who declares it so!

 

Karie,

 

Who is Mistress of Her Own Domain <*>

[Peter_LT]

I sort of guessed that they only let the rather better staff sail on her - when

I crossed on CARONIA (III) I chatted with a German lady who had served on

the Queen Mary post war, and as Cunard were desperate to get her to

continue she was able to get assigned to CARONIA....clearly the plum jobs!

 

Well, the strange thing about the plum job part is that there was no sense of

"superiority" on the part of the crew on board the Green Goddess herself.

That was was reserved for the Lizzie, where there was a strong sense of

"flag-shipitis"!

 

That's not to say that we weren't proud to serve aboard Caronia, we were!

Indeed, almost to a man, the words that crop up most in the feedback I

receive from the Timeline are "it was a privilege". With the Caronia being used

almost exclusively for cruising in her later years, and with periods of up to

six months away from home, this created an atmosphere where the ship was

very much more than just a place of work.

 

The Green Goddess was a happy ship, but the plum job label would not sit

well off the ship. If we were in a port abroad with another British ship,

especially from P&O, I'd make a point of not visiting the local haunts. The mix

of alcohol, rivalry twixt companies and perhaps a touch of jealousy was too

inflammatory for me.

 

There were guys on both sides who'd set out to wind each other up. They

were in their element if they got into a fight. The idea of facing the wrath of

the Restaurant Manager if I were to turn-to for duty with a black eye was

quite enough of a deterrent for me... You knew who commanded respect!

 

By contrast, Mr. Prescott being invited by Cunard to attend the renaming of

Caronia III, I think any British Merchant Seafarer will tell you emphatically

just what an act of hypocracy that was - especially if their ship ended up being

transferred to a flag of convenience as a direct result of that 1966 strike! :(

 

Regards,

Steve (Peter S.)

Caronia II Timeline Webmaster

< http://www.*****.info/ >