The recent rash of mean-spirited, personalized, argumentative posts

[annebill]

Sounds kind of like the 'ol "if you don't do it my way I'm gonna take my toys and go home".

[HeatherInFlorida]

[quote name='annebill']Sounds kind of like the 'ol "if you don't do it my way I'm gonna take my toys and go home".[/QUOTE][font=Comic Sans MS]For my part, I honestly didn't mean that at all. I have agreed with you throughout this thread. All opinions should be welcome here. My only feeling is that in some cases a few people have gotten a little carried away, to say the least, with their own opinion....to the point that they didn't even allow that there might be another point of view on a subject. [/font]

[font=Comic Sans MS]It never bothers me if someone disagrees with me; I love an honest debate such as you have described. But when the name calling and back biting sets in, that just might be a good time to simply say "I will not engage". We do this in life sometimes ... just stay a little above the fray rather than lower oneself into the muck and mire of a really ugly argument.[/font]

[font=Comic Sans MS]One very good thread with a lot of good stuff has just been lost forever because of this kind of oneupsmanship. I think it's really too bad because overall (and I'm fairly new on these boards), people are very friendly and helpful and a lot of good natured debate takes place. That's not the same as what the initiator of this thread was talking about.[/font]

[superstein61]

[quote name='annebill']Joedog, no, I was not referring to you. I wasn't aware that you had used the term. I was referring mostly to the post I had made which some considered politically incorrect and called "off topic" so it was deleted. However, the term has been used frequently in the past by many to protest other's posts.The irritating thing is that the same people who do that are VERY frequently off topic themselves, posting all kinds of personal stuff that have nothing to do with HAL or cruising. Check out ANY of these threads and you'll see what I mean. I would have no problem with it EXCEPT when they cry "off topic" in order to silence others with who they disagree---either that or resorting to labeling them "troublemakers", etc.

Well, I feel better after blowing off a little steam---it's all very silly. Right ?[/QUOTE]

Well said Annebill - Keep on posting !!!

[superstein61]

[quote name='joeinwpb']There are some on the HAL forum that find a second opinion as being divisive and all kinds of stuff. Too bad because it creates a bad [but inaccurate] opinion of the typical HAL cruiser. [/QUOTE]

Agreed Joe, Agreed !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BigDave]

If she did mean you, (or me for that matter) and she had added you to the auto ignore, then replying won't be very productive.

(If ignore does what I think)

[quote name='superstein61']heather - lets be honest - you are referring to me.[/QUOTE]

[superstein61]

[quote name='BigDave']If she did mean you, (or me for that matter) and she had added you to the auto ignore, then replying won't be very productive.

(If ignore does what I think)[/QUOTE]

To me, there are more people than just her reading this board - so posting my opinion is shared among all of them. If someone wants to close their mind to others - thats their right - but it doesn't mean anyone has to stop providing our opinions on what others may post publically here

[HeatherInFlorida]

[quote name='superstein61']heather - lets be honest - you are referring to me.
[/QUOTE][font=Comic Sans MS][color=indigo]Yes, I was. And you are not on my "ignore" list because I ignore no one. It would have to be pretty bad before I would do that. Superstein and I made up a long way back on these threads. I have no argument with anything Superstein has said. I did have a problem with the manner in which it was delivered. [/color][/font]

[font=Comic Sans MS][color=#4b0082]I wholeheartedly support differing opinions. I just think that when it's the written word, and we can't see someone's smile, or hear a laugh, we have to be a little careful in how we word things. [/color][/font]

[font=Comic Sans MS][color=indigo]I've seen many informative, interesting posts by Superstein. So I wanted to clear this up. The reason I decided not to respond further is that I made a decision to try not to appear combative on these threads. I'm here for fun, not to fight. There is enough animosity in the world without me getting on my high horse with people I really don't know at all.[/color][/font]

[font=Comic Sans MS][color=#4b0082]The other thing is, believe it or not, I do not spend my every waking hour reading all the posts. I actually have a life[img]http://boards2.cruisecritic.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] . My email notifications are not working all the time so if I miss a post and don't respond, let me apologize now.[/color][/font]

[paint]

Egad! There has been more B--- S--- spewed out on this thread than will be "harvested" for the 10 day rodeo at the Calgary Stampede. Is'nt it time to give it a rest?

[annebill]

Paint, I can't imagine why you would have read it.

[paint]

Annebill, you are absolutely right! I asked myself the same question.

[annebill]

It must have been the deep thoughts and great writing, Paint.

[superstein61]

[quote name='HeatherInFlorida'][font=Comic Sans MS][color=indigo]Yes, I was. And you are not on my "ignore" list because I ignore no one. It would have to be pretty bad before I would do that. Superstein and I made up a long way back on these threads. I have no argument with anything Superstein has said. I did have a problem with the manner in which it was delivered. [/color][/font]

[font=Comic Sans MS][color=#4b0082]I wholeheartedly support differing opinions. I just think that when it's the written word, and we can't see someone's smile, or hear a laugh, we have to be a little careful in how we word things. [/color][/font]

[font=Comic Sans MS][color=indigo]I've seen many informative, interesting posts by Superstein. So I wanted to clear this up. The reason I decided not to respond further is that I made a decision to try not to appear combative on these threads. I'm here for fun, not to fight. There is enough animosity in the world without me getting on my high horse with people I really don't know at all.[/color][/font]

[font=Comic Sans MS][color=#4b0082]The other thing is, believe it or not, I do not spend my every waking hour reading all the posts. I actually have a life[img]http://boards2.cruisecritic.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] . My email notifications are not working all the time so if I miss a post and don't respond, let me apologize now.[/color][/font][/QUOTE]

Thanks Heather - I agree with you. Many times it is hard to judge the intent of someone with simply words on a message board. It is hard to do so not seeing how a message was delivered. I am sure people can interpret my delivery in several ways - just as I do others. This probably hurts us all - but unfortunately that is one fault of this medium

[HeatherInFlorida]

OhmiGod:eek: !!! I feel another group hug coming on!!! Superstein, be very very careful because you are going to ruin your reputation:) .

Seriously, thanks. This time you put it really, really well.

[Cruiseoften]

[COLOR=Orange][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=5]Isn't it time we went back to the original post?[/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE]

[url]http://members.aol.com/intwg/trolls.htm[/url]



[quote name='BorderLady']Many posts nowadays smell strongly of mildew, mold and fungus – like they’re coming from under a bridge. One suspects there are trolls in our midst.

Exactly what is an internet troll and how to deal with them? Here’s an excellent piece on how to identify trolls and avoid encouraging them.

Internet Trolls
[url]http://members.aol.com/intwg/trolls.htm[/url]

This isn’t the first time this article has been recommended in this forum.

It seems to me it’s time to read it again and think about the effect of trolls on a message board -- topics that get sidetracked and degenerate into a lot of accusations, defensiveness, space and time-wasting nonsense.

For those who don’t have time to read, here’s the bottom line:

Ignore them. Don’t respond to their posts. They’ll give up and go away sooner that way.[/QUOTE]

[superstein61]

[quote name='HeatherInFlorida']OhmiGod:eek: !!! I feel another group hug coming on!!! Superstein, be very very careful because you are going to ruin your reputation:) .

Seriously, thanks. This time you put it really, really well.[/QUOTE]

LOL - Ooops - I forgot about my reputation :)

Sometimes folks take me the wrong way becuase I have differing opinions - and do enjoy hearing the good and the bad - I am sure that contributes to it. Plus, yes I have been known to argue my point if I really believe in it :) Plus as we noted, its hard to judge someone's intent thru this medium since emotion / inflection / laughter / etc doesn't translate real well

Anyway, thanks for the comments

[HeatherInFlorida]

[quote name='Cruiseoften'][color=orange][font=Comic Sans MS][size=5]Isn't it time we went back to the original post?[/size][/font][/color][/QUOTE]
[font=Comic Sans MS]If you read thru this thread carefully, you will see that it all does refer back to original post. The river runs through it:o [/font]

[Seems_to_me]

I stayed off this string because I thought it did no good to comment as those who violate the spirit of this board see themselves as perfectly justified.

However, I do not agree with the idea of ignoring although ignoring will eventually take care of trolls. It is not trolls who are the great offenders, but those who will tolerate no disagreement with their view and eventually fall back to personalization. It is these we must report, if for no reason than to bring such behavior to the attention of the administrators.

Anonymity seems to bring out the worst in many of us.

[annebill]

Getting back to the subject, one way to get rid of all those odors borderlady smells is to open it up, shine some light on it and air it out. That's better than closing it up and ignoring it.

[Host Walt]

This thread is closed for what I hope are obvious reasons.

[Orcrone]

Thanks you, Walt!!!

[Host Walt]

[quote name='Host Walt']This thread is closed for what I hope are obvious reasons.[/QUOTE]
Based on a few emails I received, the reasons are, apparently, not as obvious to some as they are to me.

First, this thread eminated, in part, from another thread where the discussion toggled between hostility and pleasant. Second, the thread is not cruise related. Third, there are several direct violations of our Community Guidelines contained in it, in particular on page three.

The objective of these boards is clearly stated in the Guidelines:

[b][i] Cruise Critic is a community of folks who love to cruise and we all benefit from the exchange of advice that takes place particularly here! Our Cruise Board is a cooperative effort which depend on all of you to make it work well.[/i][/b]

Expected comportment is also included in the guidelines:

[b][i]Cruise Critic is committed to providing an online environment that is free from these types of harassing postings. Please, don't attack another poster personally. Do not harass, threaten, embarrass, or do anything else to another member that is unwanted. This means: don't say bad things about them, don't keep sending them unwanted Instant Message notes, don't attack their race, heritage, etc. If you disagree with someone, respond to the subject, not the person[/i][/b]

In other words, the generally accepted standards of civil discussion also apply to the Cruise Critic Message Boards. If a member disagrees with the position of another member about anything, even the timing of the celebration of a 35th anniversary on board ship, unless there is a community benefit to exploring the matter ([i]e.g.[/i], the discussion can be helpful to either the original poster or to others reading the Cruise Critic boards in anticipation of a cruise) there is no valid reason for personalized negativity. More to the point there is never a reason for [u]hostile[/u] disagreement to be tolerated in any situation.

That said, I am reopening this thread in response to those requests and will remove some of the posts, but ask that you all keep the Community Guidelines in mind as you go forward.

Thanks.

[HeatherInFlorida]

[font=Comic Sans MS]Now that Walt has scared everyone away:D I just want to publicly thank him for having an open mind and reopening this forum. While I did not begin the thread, I did feel the heart of the subject was an effort to "quiet" things down a little. It was a bit of a rough road, and did get off course, but I think the effort was worthwhile.[/font]

[ekerr19]

I'm sorry, I just don't get it? I haven't seen anything on this thread that should cause it to be shut down - I've seen much worse on other threads recently... it seems to me the jist of this is that a few people are just trying to figure what they've done (posted) to inflame so many and why others are "ignoring" them... I am I wrong? I think this has been pretty civil, for the most part...

I agree with joeinwpb - if you ignore someone, you may not see where they posted an apology. Everyone has a tendency to react (not always positively) when they feel they are attacked or see someone else attacked. I did so with Superstein - he is entilted to his(her) opinion and I posted a pretty trite (mean) response to something he posted - he never would have seen that I apologized had I been on ignore. Since that point, I've tried to be coginzant of others and really think about something from someone else's point of view.

To me, ignore gives you the opportunity to say what you want - while choosing not to listen to anyone else.

[annebill]

Not to belabor the point, but I have a small problem with Walt's second reason :...."not cruise related". First, I think the whole discussion was in answer to a poster's question seeking opinions about a cruise related matter. Second, I've perused these boards for a long time and have seen just about everything under the sun discussed here---current weather conditions in various parts of the country, best places to eat and/or stay in various cities, various job descriptions, health problems of friends or family--not the cruisers themselves, marriages of family members, theology, and on and on. Those posts don't bother me as we are all free to pick and choose what we want to read. What does bother me is when something that is, IMHO, cruise related is called "off topic" because someone doesn't like the discussion. I don't mean the obviously mean or personal attacks which should be censored. I don't believe any of these discussions reached that point. I feel that the censors should be consistent in labeling things "off topic".

Hope you all have many happy HAL cruises (wanted to be "cruise related "here).

[HeatherInFlorida]

[font=Comic Sans MS][img]http://boards2.cruisecritic.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] You know, Annebill, I think you have a valid point. After all this happened earlier today I got to thinking about it and remembered several threads I've read that have nothing to do with cruising.[/font]

[font=Comic Sans MS]As to EKerr's points, I think that Walt removed some of the posts on this thread so it may read a little differently now. That happened on another thread that really now reads oddly because it has 3 posts in a row from me but none of Superstein's responses. [/font]

[font=Comic Sans MS]I also think some people don't read a thread through completely and therefore take offense when none should be taken. It's kind of like eavesdropping on a conversation and only hearing half of it.[/font]

[font=Comic Sans MS]Cruisewise, I have to say I'm happy we rarely run into negativity on our cruises. Must be that sea air!!!![/font]