Carnival Legend 9/1/06-9/9/06

[MrPete]

Funny how the word GROUP can be substituted for just about anything. This one took a turn at the time as well:

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=303260&highlight=rosie

[Jacquelyn11]

http://www.carnivalconnections.com

 

It's set up to be a starting point to start a group cruise. It might be a good place to look to see if a large group is booked for an upcoming cruise. Of course, if the group dosen't post or create their own web page you won't know till you board! :eek:

 

Anyone know if TA's can look to see if a large group is booked on a cruise?

 

Jacquelyn :D

[Leo Jay]

Despite some disagreement and a few ruffled feathers, I must say I'm impressed that this thread has remained impressively civil by and large, even while the candor level has been raised on this potentially volatile issue. Kudos.

 

So now perhaps we can explore other important matters like this "no live music in the Golden Fleece" thing. What's up with that? GF and I dined there twice last week and stopped by another two times, and Benerly and Jun were in delightful form on all occasions. Each of them in a pinch could carry an entire evening of music, so even if one of them happened to be ill on a given night, I can't imagine the show wouldn't go on. Even if BOTH were out, I can't imagine that Marc (?), the ship's Musical Director, wouldn't have re-staffed accordingly (I met him Thurs or Fri -- he seemed a very capable fellow).

 

The whole GF operation was very professionally-run and provided a delightful and graciously-hosted evening, in our experience, so OP (if you're still around...), what night were you there, and what explanation were you given?

[mamaskittles]

Funny how the word GROUP can be substituted for just about anything. This one took a turn at the time as well:

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=303260&highlight=rosie

 

for the link

Call me nascarphobic, homophobic,firefighetrphobic,petaphobic,rosiephobic,weightlossphobic(true),redneckphobic,squaredancephobic,bigbandphobic,

littlebandphobic,deadbandphobic,chipmunkphobic,christianphobic,

judiacphobic,islamicphobic,buddistphobic,nudistphobic,bubbaphobic.......I don't care. I don't want to sail with a large group if I can help it.:eek:

I don't even want to sail with a very large group of my own friends, been there done that it wasn't pretty, but that's a tale for another day.:o

I will sail with everyone in normal day to day doses.;)

[Crazy about cruising]

LeoJay,

 

I had dinner in the Golden Fleece on Monday night. There was no live entertainment . It was wonderful experience except that I had asked the Sommelier to recommend a nice wine which she did. I signed a receipt for one price and noticed a couple of days later,the price was credited to my account and I was charged a much higher price. Apparently, she charged me wrong the price. I have no problem with paying for what I received. I do have a problem not being told about the mistake until I questioned it. All they had to do was leave me a message in my cabin. I felt they just expected I wouldn't notice the difference.

[Leo Jay]

Odd. What was their explanation? I wonder if the OP also dined on Monday night. Maybe they operate on a Broadway theatre schedule -- no performance Monday nights...

[battersea]

We were also in the Golden Fleece on Monday, while docked in San Juan. No sign of any entertainment. We also had a problem with our bill for wine in the Golden Fleece.

[vincenzo0506]

We were also in the Golden Fleece on Monday, while docked in San Juan. No sign of any entertainment. We also had a problem with our bill for wine in the Golden Fleece.

 

I sense a trend...anyone else fleeced in the Golden Fleece?

 

vincenzo:)

[Leo Jay]

Hah, one of the first things my GF said when we first went in to sneak a look at the place was "'The Golden Fleece' would be a great name for a clip joint". :D

 

Both nights we dined there, we were attended by pretty much completely different staffs, (the sommelier and entertainment were the same), and both nights we were treated beautifully. I left my camera on the table when we went to the dance floor, and our server surprised us by secretly snapping our photo while we danced! (Unfortunately, they didn't turn out too well, but that's beside the point! ;) ). I can't say enough about how professional, sweet and gracious everyone was the nights we were there. And the chow was purty good eatin' too!

 

Anyway, it's unfortunate that others had a less than stellar experience. :o

[atroop711]

As I was reading these post refering to "the group", I was wondering what some of you ment by this. Now I see that someone has confirmed that you ment exactly what I thought. I as highly offended as I am an african american female. I am 41 years old and I am no "gangsta". And the majority of african americans are not!!! Maybe some of you have never had the pleasure of being around black people but if you have a problem with it then maybe you should stay home. I will continue cruising and try by best to aviod people like you.

 

Let me put some light on this..(Not sure if you were on this cruise but I was)...this was my 10th cruise and never had I had to deal with fould mouthed, obnoxious ghettoness while on vacation. Before you flip out I am a minority but I call it as I see it. I was raised poor but had a good upbringing. These individuals who seem to be part of one group that came together, were OUT OF CONTROL. Downright embarrassing! I cannot say WHO the thugs belonged too...but I was completely annoyed, embarrassed and just out right pissed off at how many of the ppl on this cruise acted like animals. These are the same ppl that would be the first to bitch and moan about why they are being stereotyped. It is ppl like this (the ones that were rude, obnoxious, thug like, very ghetto) that give us minorities a bad name. You may not like what I am saying but a duck is a duck. I just hope that the others who shared this experience with me on the ship will remember that one batch doesn't make all of us bad.

[softasylum]

Let me put some light on this..(Not sure if you were on this cruise but I was)...this was my 10th cruise and never had I had to deal with fould mouthed, obnoxious ghettoness while on vacation. Before you flip out I am a minority but I call it as I see it. I was raised poor but had a good upbringing. These individuals who seem to be part of one group that came together, were OUT OF CONTROL. Downright embarrassing! I cannot say WHO the thugs belonged too...but I was completely annoyed, embarrassed and just out right pissed off at how many of the ppl on this cruise acted like animals. These are the same ppl that would be the first to bitch and moan about why they are being stereotyped. It is ppl like this (the ones that were rude, obnoxious, thug like, very ghetto) that give us minorities a bad name. You may not like what I am saying but a duck is a duck. I just hope that the others who shared this experience with me on the ship will remember that one batch doesn't make all of us bad.

 

Cheers to ya:) You go girl !!!

[Jacquelyn11]

Bill Cosby would be very proud of you! :)

 

Jacquelyn :D

[shabcruzn]

I have to agree. It's not so much the reference to the "group" but the references to "gangsta" or "thugs." My nephew wears baggy jeans and t'shirts and a large necklace around his neck (a cross btw) and has cruised twice in this attire. He does smoke, drink, or use other drugs. He is a customer service rep and a talented musician (plays for the church), not a thug. I have cruised several times--I hate to think my race is a question or that people look at our clothing and make judgements? Call out the behavior as inappropiate for any race, but leave the racial stereotypes and generalizations out of it!

 

I just wanted to add that my nephew DOES NOT drink, smoke, use drugs, etc--bad typo

[Leo Jay]

It is ppl like this (the ones that were rude, obnoxious, thug like, very ghetto) that give us minorities a bad name.

 

But to me, that's exactly the problem -- why is that? If you see a group of unruly people who happen to be white, is it then appropriate to form some conclusion about "white people"? Of course not. Why is it even relevant whether the person is black, brown, white or green? Why not just hold each person accountable for his/her own individual conduct and leave it at that?

[vincenzo0506]

But to me, that's exactly the problem -- why is that? If you see a group of unruly people who happen to be white, is it then appropriate to form some conclusion about "white people"? Of course not. Why is it even relevant whether the person is black, brown, white or green? Why not just hold each person accountable for his/her own individual conduct and leave it at that?

 

YES!

[softasylum]

Leo Jay please read my post in response to my sister's review thread. I'm glad you had a great time and sorry we missed meeting you and your lady.:) It's #31 on page two. Please don't feel that ANYONE is drawing any conclusions about any particular race or ethnicity we are just cranky about the bad behavior exhibited that we experienced directly.

[Leo Jay]

Leo Jay please read my post in response to my sister's review thread. I'm glad you had a great time and sorry we missed meeting you and your lady.:) It's #31 on page two. Please don't feel that ANYONE is drawing any conclusions about any particular race or ethnicity we are just cranky about the bad behavior exhibited that we experienced directly.

 

My comment wasn't directed at you -- I was responding to atroop711's post and questioning the notion of any individual's behavior reflecting on a group as a whole. Should I one day lose my ever-lovin' mind and decide to go on a CC group cruise, I certainly wouldn't want the behaviors of some of youse to reflect on me or the CC community as a whole! :eek: :D

[natcolb65]

Let me start by saying for those of you that think that i was defending the actions of the rude, out of control guest, you are wrong. I was not on this sailing so I don't know how they acted but if they acted the way some people are saying then you had every right to be annoyed. My problem was not what you were saying about the people that were rude, my problem was those of you that catagorized this whole group as rude, and out of control. And the fact that some of you kept refering to them as "the group". To me that ment "that group of black people" and i also had a problem with the terms, "gangsta, and thugs". As i stated before i doubt had these people not been african american you would have called them those things. Let me say this also "ghetto is ghetto" i don't care what race you are I have seen ghetto in every race so I do not take offense to it if it is not directed toward one race of people. I also thought some of the things people complained about was ridiculous! I don't understand why anyone would care about have much food someone else piles on there plate. I could care less if you have a plate full of bacon! How does that affect me? They will replenish it. I think that some people looked for things to complain about because it was "the group" that they had a problem with.

[mamaskittles]

Let me start by saying for those of you that think that i was defending the actions of the rude, out of control guest, you are wrong. I was not on this sailing so I don't know how they acted but if they acted the way some people are saying then you had every right to be annoyed. My problem was not what you were saying about the people that were rude, my problem was those of you that catagorized this whole group as rude, and out of control. And the fact that some of you kept refering to them as "the group". To me that ment "that group of black people" and i also had a problem with the terms, "gangsta, and thugs". As i stated before i doubt had these people not been african american you would have called them those things. Let me say this also "ghetto is ghetto" i don't care what race you are I have seen ghetto in every race so I do not take offense to it if it is not directed toward one race of people. I also thought some of the things people complained about was ridiculous! I don't understand why anyone would care about have much food someone else piles on there plate. I could care less if you have a plate full of bacon! How does that affect me? They will replenish it. I think that some people looked for things to complain about because it was "the group" that they had a problem with.

 

Perhaps I read the other reviews wrong but I did not see anyone state that the entire group was out of control, gangsta thuggish. I seem to recall the posters stating that SOME of the people in the groups behaved abominably. I saw a thread yesterday that showed a princess cruise with thuggish, out of control, gangsta types and it looked to me that they were for the most part white.

I was there.

You were not.

If I were part of either one of the family reunions or the classic soul cruise, I would have been mortified by the behavior of SOME of those cruising with me.

As for the food issues, I could care less how much anyone wants to eat but when you are forced to stand in a line for 25+ minutes and someone ahead of you takes the whole tray of food onto their plates and leaves grease and crumbs for the next guy it seems to me to be the epitome of dis-courteousness and disregard for others that was rampant on this cruise.

Yes the trays were replenished but this only made the wait longer for everyone else, and further harried an already harried and harassed staff who only wanted to please.

Now I need to ask, in all honestly would you have written in to comment if you had found out that the group that was referred to was 550 nascar enthusiasts or perhaps heavy metal fans who behaved in the same manner? I think not.

If someone is behaving like a gangsta, thug, fool, reprobate,bully,hitman,mafioso,slut,whatever...the are earning the names themselves, they don't need me, Annette, softasylum, Amanda Beaverhausen, or anyone else to title them as such.

Therefore offense should not be taken when the finger is pointed at those who (by their own actions) earned the reputation.

[vincenzo0506]

Perhaps I read the other reviews wrong but I did not see anyone state that the entire group was out of control, gangsta thuggish. I seem to recall the posters stating that SOME of the people in the groups behaved abominably. I saw a thread yesterday that showed a princess cruise with thuggish, out of control, gangsta types and it looked to me that they were for the most part white.

I was there.

You were not.

If I were part of either one of the family reunions or the classic soul cruise, I would have been mortified by the behavior of SOME of those cruising with me.

As for the food issues, I could care less how much anyone wants to eat but when you are forced to stand in a line for 25+ minutes and someone ahead of you takes the whole tray of food onto their plates and leaves grease and crumbs for the next guy it seems to me to be the epitome of dis-courteousness and disregard for others that was rampant on this cruise.

Yes the trays were replenished but this only made the wait longer for everyone else, and further harried an already harried and harassed staff who only wanted to please.

Now I need to ask, in all honestly would you have written in to comment if you had found out that the group that was referred to was 550 nascar enthusiasts or perhaps heavy metal fans who behaved in the same manner? I think not.

If someone is behaving like a gangsta, thug, fool, reprobate,bully,hitman,mafioso,slut,whatever...the are earning the names themselves, they don't need me, Annette, softasylum, Amanda Beaverhausen, or anyone else to title them as such.

Therefore offense should not be taken when the finger is pointed at those who (by their own actions) earned the reputation.

 

I would have hoped that this point had been made enough times that natcolb65 would realize that nobody meant it as a racial coment.

 

Apparently this is not the case.

 

I believe the common theme here is that there were rude people about. They may or may not have been part of the group or groups that were on board. It doesn't matter to anyone here that they were black, white, or purple. The fact is that they were rude. Plain and simple.

 

vincenzo

[natcolb65]

I'm gonna say this and then i'm done with this subject. vincenzo0506 you may not have meant it as a racial comment but you cannot say what someone else may have ment. And as for you mamaskittles no I would not have benn offended if you were talking about any other group that you didn't refer to by race and even though you say thats not what was meant by it I think that was what was meant. And if you read some of the other posters I was not the only one that caught on to and was offended by yours and others comments. Now like I said before I am done with this subject.

[Leo Jay]

I guess the point is, it's unfortunate that it was made an issue at all. If someone had posted a comment about a Princess cruise with a bunch of unruly "white" people (or used some appropriate euphemism to make the point), I'd certainly wonder why they'd felt it necessary to make race an issue there as well.

 

Anyway, kumbaya and all that good stuff. :o Woo Hoo!

[vincenzo0506]

I'm gonna say this and then i'm done with this subject. vincenzo0506 you may not have meant it as a racial comment but you cannot say what someone else may have ment.

 

You are correct. I shouldn't think or speak for anyone but myself.

 

vincenzo:)

[battersea]

I'm gonna say this and then i'm done with this subject. vincenzo0506 you may not have meant it as a racial comment but you cannot say what someone else may have ment. And as for you mamaskittles no I would not have benn offended if you were talking about any other group that you didn't refer to by race and even though you say thats not what was meant by it I think that was what was meant. And if you read some of the other posters I was not the only one that caught on to and was offended by yours and others comments. Now like I said before I am done with this subject.

 

 

Maybe our fellow passengers should have been referred to not as a G_ _ _ _ but as an assemblage, the body, the bunch, the collection, a crowd, a gathering, the ensemble, just everyone, the beautiful people, multitudes, or the smart set, the upper echelon, better still the whole enchilada or the flock!! Would that have relieved your feeling of it being a racial comment? You can call "a gathering of people" by any name but...rude is rude, no matter what color it is. Get over it...you don't have a clue what happened on that ship you were not there! The facts have been presented accurately by everyone.

[mamaskittles]

I guess the point is, it's unfortunate that it was made an issue at all. If someone had posted a comment about a Princess cruise with a bunch of unruly "white" people (or used some appropriate euphemism to make the point), I'd certainly wonder why they'd felt it necessary to make race an issue there as well.

 

Anyway, kumbaya and all that good stuff. :o Woo Hoo!

 

Leo Jay I hate to burst your bubble but I went back thru the thread and you were the first to point out that the "groups" in question were African American.

If you go to my original review and any of my subsequent posts and replace Classic Soul Cruisers with Lord of The Dance Highsteppers the behaviors I complained about would not have changed, only the ethnicity of the offenders.

The poster who is so offended, (by her own admission) would not have been offended at all.

The facts remain what they are.

SOME members of a very large group and SOME member of a smaller (but still sizable) group exhibited rude, obnoxious, disgusting behavior on a cruise that I and my family paid our hard earned money to enjoy.

So my answer is don't shoot the messenger. The rude people on the Legend 9/1/06 sailing who I would not want to cruise with in the future were African American.

I am not ignorant enough to even consider the thought that the behaviors I witnessed by a percentage of a population on a cruise ship is any indication of the behaviors of that population as a whole.

That said, I believe if anyone of any race witnessed what I did and honestly states "I thought they were fine and every one who is complaining is a racist" believes that, then they are either deluding themselves or they are just plain PC liars.

 

Vincenzo you said nothing to apologize for. You are absolutely right. None of us cared what color the slobs and rude people were, all we cared about was not being subjected to foul language, fistfights, food hoarding, sex acts in the hot tubs, pushing, shoving, yelling, and so on.

Most of us stated emphatically that the majority of people we met on the cruise were lovely. I still stand by that statement.