Personal DVD player in the Dining room?

[kryos]

LZ, who is of the *opinion* that no children should be on cruise ships other than Disney.

LOL ... well, I don't think I would go quite that far. :)

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[bplazo]

I was just watching Bill O'Reilly on Fox news and he was talking about those play station games people are shooting each other over and I liked his comment about how we are raising kids to be "zombies"

 

I work at a restraunt and I see kids all the time playing those hand held games and I also know a teenager who brings in his laptop (and parents are on cell phones). All I can say is that it takes me a few times asking questions to get an order because they are so involved in their "toys".

[babyher]

LOL ... you obviously didn't grow up with a strict Eyetalian father then. :) Don't get me wrong, I wasn't batted around as a child ... didn't have to be. Just knowing that my father wouldn't hesitate to swat my backside was enough. So, all it really took was "the look" to get me back in line. :)

 

And it was the same way with all my friends and their parents.

 

I guess we were just raised in a different age. Things are more "progressive" today ... and the kids much wilder. Today it seems many kids are showered with whatever their hearts desire. Not when I was growing up. Today, parents don't want to deny their kids much because budgets are tight. So they simply whip out the credit cards and make sure their kids have everything that their friends have. When I was growing up, however, there was no shame in telling a kid no if they wanted some new toy or gadget that mom and dad really couldn't afford. There was nothing to be embarrassed about for a parent to simply say "we can't afford it." Today, that seems almost something to be ashamed of. Maybe that's why so many folks are so heavily in debt. I have friends literally buried in credit card debt because they simply can't bear to tell their children no.

 

Wish my dad had a problem with that word when I was growing up. :)

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

 

 

Hey Paisan *LOL*

 

I had the same father as you did.

 

You have no idea how many times I see or hear some today and just think exactly like you.

[michmike]

Call me crazy, but at a couple weeks short of 59, it strikes me that a lot of you are of my generation or close enough and none of us seems to have been overly traumatized as adults from the occasional swat we got from our parents.

 

We learned that there were limits and we learned personal responsibility. We grew up to get up every morning and give an honest days work for a days pay. We by and large didn't use drugs. We can like carry on a conversation w/o you know, like a lot of like slang?

 

So in this poster's opinion, the world might be a better place if kids got a swat when they needed it. That's a far cry from child abuse.

 

I've been working for 30 years in corrections and it's been my experience that the problems these folks have had in their lives arises more from a LACK of parenting rather than trauma cuz they periodically were taken across dad's knee.

[babyher]

Perfect example

 

The craze over this Play Station 3 this holiday season.

 

People are literally sleeping on the sidewalks outside of stores to be next in line to purchase a $600 video game. Because God forbid little Jr. doesn't get one under the tree Christmas morning.

 

Don't get me wrong I am just as guilty as any other parent when it comes to over doing it with the Christmas presents TO A LIMIT!!!!!

 

I would sleep on the streets in line for food for my kids if God Forbid I needed too, For medicine if I needed too. For housing.

 

But for a video game ????...............give me a break

[bplazo]

I was just at Target and there was a line for a Nintendo game. I went over to talk to people who were in line. A couple of them have been camping out since yesterday for this game and they are not selling this game till tomorrow.

 

I have to agree that I would only stand in line if my child needed medicine or food. No way would I do it for some toy.

[NoNoNanette]

LOL ... you obviously didn't grow up with a strict Eyetalian father then. :) Don't get me wrong, I wasn't batted around as a child ... didn't have to be.

 

Ain't that the truth, Rita!

 

I grew up with a strict German father. I don't remember ever getting spanked.... one glare from his was all I needed to "simmer down". ;)

 

What I learned from this is that it makes no sense to take a baby some place where the baby is apt to disrupt others and those that do are putting themselves, their wants before the baby as well as those who are forced to endure it.

 

*WILDLY APPLAUDING this sentiment*

[bdcbbq]

I have to agree that I would only stand in line if my child needed medicine or food. No way would I do it for some toy.

 

I'm betting that there are very few if any parents doing this for their children. They are doing it for themselves. A father may be saying he's standing in live with his son, but he's really doing it for himself and bringing him along. Of course he should get a life too.

[bdcbbq]

I have to agree that I would only stand in line if my child needed medicine or food. No way would I do it for some toy.

 

I'm betting that there are very few if any parents doing this for their children. They are doing it for themselves. A father may be saying he's standing in live with his son, but he's really doing it for himself and bringing him along. Of course he should get a life too.

[jhannah]

Many are only trying to make a killing. Some here said they were only getting one to resell. Look on auction sites. Some are going for several thousand dollars! Looks like LOTS of people need to get a life.

 

Hey ... maybe they're trying to fund a cruise!

[peaches from georgia]

Many, if not most, are standing in line to make a $600 investment. The 'toy' is now selling for several thousand $ on ebay and I'm sure other places.

 

Edit: Posted at the same time Jim.

[HeatherInFlorida]

Oh, wow! I just read the other thread and kept my grubby mitts off it!!! I was fearful of what I would say.

 

I come away from reading both threads feeling terribly worried and awfully sad.

 

I don't know when the transition took place that children have to be entertained and engaged 24/7. That and the fact that the children now control the parents is what has brought us to this place that a question like that even gets asked in this forum.

 

I'm one of those raised in an era when television hadn't even become the norm. Yet somehow I managed to grow up on 180 acres of land without a house in sight and it was an amazing childhood that I look back on with the best memories. We used our imaginations for fun and we learned at an early age to sit at a table and have dinner. We didn't leave that table until we were "excused":) .

 

As everyone says, of course a 15 month old is not going to be able to sit through a 5 course meal. So if the family wants to have quality vacation time together, have dinner in the Lido or use a sitting service if it's available and the parents want a "night out". A baby sitting with a DVD player and headphones isn't enjoying the company of his parents anyway.

 

When I was a child, my parents packed up the car with us 3 kids and 2 dogs and drove us to a cottage rental on Cape Cod for 2 weeks every year. Best vacation in the world and you can't bond with your children any better than that.

 

Take me away, Calgon!!!

[LemonZest]

"LZ" does not speak for everyone in this forum, I assure you.

 

Notice, please, that I did not say I spoke for ANYONE else on this forum, Jhannah.

 

I am just as entitled to express my opinion as anyone else here, and would greatly appreciate if you'd stick to expressing yours rather than bashing mine unnecessarily. Thanks in advance.

 

LemonZest

[jhannah]

I was not bashing in any way. Another poster had expressed concern about sailing HAL based on your comment, so I was simply making a point. Yes, you are entitled to your opinion, as is everyone here.

[DMRick]

It's not a matter of what our opinion of a "swat" is anymore..it's what the law says..the laws changed by many in our generation (the 50's).

 

As for what our "generation" was like when we were young. Yeah, we were so much better than today's youth. There was no 60's or Woodstock, no afro's or Beatle hair, and certainly no low cut sexy jeans or "funny" cigarettes. Pulease..., the more things change, the more they are the same. We may not have been overly tramatized by the occasional swat (a lot had a lot more than the occasional swat..I, for one, don't care to bring up today's youth that way)., but we sure have a lot of our age who are alcholics..(just go into an AA meeting and check out the ages) so we had our problems too.

I have worked with our church's youth group. I'm sorry that so many of you only get to know the downtrowden kids..I've gotten to know many who do community service (as young as 7), are respectful, and certainly aren't turning into horrible kids, just because they take advantage of today's electric age. I think my own grands are great kids..I just spent a full day with my 11 year old grandson in Boston at the aquarium, and it was great (and he owns some of those there electronic gizmo's). He was polite, a lot of fun, and was no zombie.

We were at Walmarts today..seems a new line is forming all night tonight for some new Nentendo game..and of those in that long line, I bet not a single one was under 40. We chatted with some..and they weren't getting them for their kids, but for themselves.

 

Call me crazy, but at a couple weeks short of 59, it strikes me that a lot of you are of my generation or close enough and none of us seems to have been overly traumatized as adults from the occasional swat we got from our parents.

 

We learned that there were limits and we learned personal responsibility. We grew up to get up every morning and give an honest days work for a days pay. We by and large didn't use drugs. We can like carry on a conversation w/o you know, like a lot of like slang?

 

So in this poster's opinion, the world might be a better place if kids got a swat when they needed it. That's a far cry from child abuse.

 

I've been working for 30 years in corrections and it's been my experience that the problems these folks have had in their lives arises more from a LACK of parenting rather than trauma cuz they periodically were taken across dad's knee.

[DMRick]

 

I don't know when the transition took place that children have to be entertained and engaged 24/7.

Hmm..I don't think they were. I think they only wanted to keep the 15 month old busy for a few hours, so they and everyone around them could enjoy their meal. Perhaps the rest of the day was going to be spent with good family time, and she thought her child would be tired at dinner time, but they wanted (and deserved) a nice meal out. This way no one else would have to be bothered by a child at dinner. It's obvious to me, that if this child came and was at all animated, it would bother quite a few posters.

[DMRick]

opps. ..repeat post

[HeatherInFlorida]

Hmm..I don't think they were. I think they only wanted to keep the 15 month old busy for a few hours, so they and everyone around them could enjoy their meal. Perhaps the rest of the day was going to be spent with good family time, and she thought her child would be tired at dinner time, but they wanted (and deserved) a nice meal out. This way no one else would have to be bothered by a child at dinner. It's obvious to me, that if this child came and was at all animated, it would bother quite a few posters.

 

To clarify .... I was not speaking specifically to this situation, I was speaking in general about a broad spectrum.

 

It is an absolute fact that most children are now engaged and entertained every waking moment of their day (there are always exceptions and this is a generalization) .

 

As a result, when they grow to be adults they often (not always) are not equipped with the ability to manage moments of inactivity and temporary boredom. It is good to learn early on that life is not always a bowl of cherries;) .

[DMRick]

I don't agree. You may just hang with a crowd that have their kids engaged and entertained all the time (if you are talking electronics). I certainly have no problem with kids being in sports and school clubs..rather see them engaged in healthy and fun things than on a corner doing drugs (like many were in the 60's). We all were involved when we were younger many moons ago...in music, sports, cheering on our school teams. My grands and their friends still are.

 

I assumed you were speaking to this situation, since that was what the thread was about. I know on many community boards, they talk about all sorts of situations..but in this situation, a 15 month is what was being discussed.

 

It is an absolute fact that most children are now engaged and entertained every waking moment of their day (there are always exceptions and this is a generalization) .

.

[HeatherInFlorida]

I don't agree. You may just hang with a crowd that have their kids engaged and entertained all the time (if you are talking electronics)..

 

 

No, I was not referring specifically to electronics, DMR, and thankfully I don't "hang". I realize you don't agree with me since you made that clear. So we will simply have to agree to disagree.

 

If you've been on the CC boards for any length of time I'm sure you know how threads can twist and turn and life in general is often introduced to support one's opinions. Behavior on a cruise reflects behavior on dry land ... and this thread is addressing behavior, manners, what is acceptable and what is not.

 

If the hosts feel I have veered too far off course they can, of course, remove my posts. That conclusion rests with them.

 

If you were to look back at this thread you will note that many posters were referring to keeping children entertained in general so let's take the focus off me if we could.

 

I am now weary with this topic. Maybe I'll just go "hang" somewhere:rolleyes: .

[ekerr19]

I have three children. The oldest is 25, next is 18 and youngest is 13. We have taken all three on cruises. The two youngest more often. They started crusing about nine years ago. Granted they were not 15 months old, but I fail to see why any child would not be expected to behave in the dining room or other social setting... just so the parents who deserve a nice evening (as stated in numerous posts above) can do so? Sorry, I disagree wholeheartedly.

 

Knowing your childs limitations should be first and foremost in mind. Our two youngest have always been able to sit at a dinner table for great lengths of time and listen and behave politely. My oldest, on the other hand, could not still for more than 20-30 minutes at a time and liked to get up and move around, fidget, complain, etc. As a result, guess what? I rarely ate out at a nice restaurant until he was able to do so - which was until about age 9 or 10. Do I feel like I was "short changed" because I didn't get the nice dinner I "deserved"? Absolutely not! That's part of parenting... I made the choice because I knew it was just too much for him (and us), not to mention other diners.

 

I would not condone the use of a portable DVD (or any electronic entertainment device) to be used by children or teens during dinner. Neither at home or in a restaurant. There is a time and place, and it certainly isn't in a public dining room where other passengers are entitled to enjoy the ambiance they are also expecting.

 

I am still amazed by the constant "it's all about me" posts and threads. I think it sends the wrong message to kids when they are not expected to behave or act appropriately without providing some sort of external stimulation - how the heck are they ever supposed to learn social skills and to converse with others if they are never encouraged to do so?

 

I realize we are talking about a 15 month old here, but in my mind (and from our own cruise experiences), the 15 month old most likely will be overwhelemed by dinner in the dining room and alternate options should be explored for the majority of the cruise. I'm not saying the parents shouldn't attempt to bring the child to dinner at all, but if they know the child can't sit still or is very tired, perhaps arrange for a sitter or order room service (the dining room menu can be delivered to the room during certain hours) and just accept that sometimes you DO have to make compromises for your youngsters. :)

[cruzincurt]

Pigs can now fly......I agree with Heather.

 

When I interview to hire these youngsters brought up on an electronic diet, they just want to sit in their cubicle with their Ipods and earphones and tune out the world around them. I need these people to interact with each other on a design team and be able to act socially when visiting a customer. They all lack these social skills.

 

They are used to an electronic babysitter.

 

Visit an elementary schoool classroom, the kids are over stimulated by all of the stuff hanging from the ceilings and stuck on the walls. No wonder you have to scrape them off the ceiling.

 

Now of course, when we were kiddos, the resturant had crayons and coloring books to keep us busy if necessary.

[kryos]

When I interview to hire these youngsters brought up on an electronic diet, they just want to sit in their cubicle with their Ipods and earphones and tune out the world around them. I need these people to interact with each other on a design team and be able to act socially when visiting a customer. They all lack these social skills.

I must admit that I notice this too in today's society. When I was young, you were quick to start up a conversation with kids you didn't know. If your folks took you to a lake to go swimming, and you saw other kids swimming, you went up to them and started talking. Before you knew it, you had a group of kids to play with ... to hang out with. Even in the 'hood ... you talked to other kids in your neighborhood ... you engaged.

 

Today, though, it seems like all the kids ... and I see plenty of them on the buses and trains since I commute that way ... have either a Gameboy, a CD player, an iPOD or a cell phone in their hands. They selectively engage with their friends on the phone, or totally disengage from humanity by listening to their music. I wouldn't be surprised if many of the kids today had about zero social skills. Unless they met others in school (a place they could probably not have the iPOD in their ears), they probably have few friends.

 

Glad I grew up in a different age. I grew up, in effect, an only child. My brother is a lot older than me and was married by the time I was six. But I had lots of friends and always had a good time when my parents took me somewhere because I knew how to quickly make friends. That's why today I have no trouble making acquaintances on a cruise ship when I travel solo. I wouldn't have wanted to grow up as many of the kids today do, with all these entertainment devices ... cause if I did, I probably would be quite miserable today, unable to travel or go anywhere unless I could get a friend to go with me. Traveling solo would be impossible without sufficient social skills ... and these have to be developed in your youth. Can't do that if you always have a "device" plugged into your ears. At least that's my take on it.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[SarahQ]

Interestingly enough, I agree with Heather as well - but only about one thing...

 

I too have grown weary of this thread - anyone want to know why? Its because I am so sick of seeing every thread that mentions children end up becoming a bunch of old farts whining about how irresponsible and useless parents are these days and how ill-mannered and screwed up their kids are.

 

Was anyone offended by being called an old fart? Hope so...perhaps it'll give you an idea (a very small one of course) of how it feels to be constantly bashed, belittled and brushed off as a parent on this board.

 

If we're going to be general on this thread (which I'm not a fan of, but some people insist on doing in every thread to make it about themselves and their opinions), then let's go whole hog.

 

I find it amusing that some of those posters who are middle-aged or older think there is something special about their opinion that today's kids are in horrible danger of becoming the downfall of the human race - please, get over yourselves. Your opinion is the same one that people in your stage of life have had for hundreds (if not thousands) of years.

 

In the 20's it was jazz and alcohol, in the 50's it was television and rock n' roll, in the 70's it was punk and pot...et cetera, ad infinitum. Guess what? We're all still here...

 

And cruizincurt, I gotta say as one of those "youngsters" you're talking about, I have to completely disagree with you. I grew up with TV, video games, computers, walkmans and the like - as did all of my friends. As adults, we are social butterflys, we have great relationships with older friends and co-workers and we still know what a good work ethic is. Maybe you're just hiring the wrong people.

 

I take my leave with the following tip...if some posters insist on generalizing a thread, so be it; however, leaving the generalizations about people out of it is a good plan. Instead of painting everyone with the same brush, try pointing out you speak about 'some' people, or 'certain' people you've had experience with etc. Makes for much less ammunition for other posters to point out how offensive your comments are.

 

The point here is that in any situation, generalizations can be and are often offensive - personal experiences are not, as they are generally used to back up an opinion. For example, if I wear to say that all posters who didn't agree with my views on this thread were cranky, cantankerous old killjoys (which I don't actually believe, mind you) - that would be offensive. Looking at a comment like cruizincurt's about his yonger employees, its more difficult to be offended, as he is speaking about 'some' people he's had experience with - I still disagree, but it doesn't upset me.

 

In the final analysis, those who have chosen to speak negatively about my generation as parents and our children are really insulting their own kids and grandkids, whether they belive that or not. I know if my mother was on this board saying the things that have been said I would be incensed.

[DMRick]

Can't do that if you always have a "device" plugged into your ears. At least that's my take on it.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

 

I agree..but I keep going back to the original topic. It's words like "always" that bother me. That wasn't what the original op wanted to know. If her child should always be entertained by an electronic device. I assume they want to go out to a nicer place for dinner and wondered if this DVD would be ok for this situation (although reading the real "original" thread, I'm not so sure the original op even planned on doing this).

 

I find it interesting that so many people have posted how the kids are all so used to be electonically entertained and how will they know how to work in real jobs, and that prisons have kids who didn't learn social skills (I don't remember how that went..so I may be off on what the prisons had to do with the electronic age kids)..and yet, with all those who have responded..we all have perfect kids and grands that don't use the electronics to be entertained. They are all delightful seat guests and do just fine on cruises and in better restaurants, and talking with adults.

 

If "most" of the kids have problems intereacting..whose children are they..everyone elses, but not those who cruise on Hal? They certainly don't belong to any of us posting on this thread..so I guess there is hope out there for today's youth. I just find it funny, that so many have responded here..but all of us say "our" kids are brought up correctly..without the excessive entertainment. Am I the only one who is noticing that?

 

Besides that some of you think having a DVD is bad for the child's upbringing..how many of you would it bother enough to ruin your dinner experience (assuming head phones)? Not counting what you think of the parenting, where such a thing would be allowed..but just the bothersome level. Would it bother you as much as it bothers some people to see others not dressed up enough? Would you expect it to be that bothersome?