Are there adverse impacts from cruising?

[Presser84]

The post by FIRELT5 regarding port crowding has prompted me to post the following:

For a class I’m taking in college I am writing a paper on the growth of cruising and its adverse impacts, both on the environment and on the host countries’ population and culture. I didn’t exactly choose the topic, but I wanted to do something about cruising, and this was the topic the professor proposed.

I have been able to find a lot of information from the cruise lines perspective, and from the perspective of environmentalists, but I would like to get some opinions from the people who love to cruise. For example, do you think cruise lines are doing enough to prevent environmental damage? Do you think cruise lines make their passengers aware of the need to recycle, to not do things during excursions that could damage the environment, etc.? Is cruising changing the cultures of the ports/countries that cruiselines go to? Do cruises have more of an adverse impact than other forms of tourism?

I want to add that it is not my intent to bash the cruise industry. I want to write an objective paper that looks at the issue from all sides, and I’d appreciate any input you can give me.

And, although this is my first post here, my parents have been participants on these boards for some time (they post under the screen names Figsgrandma and FigsGrandpa).

[DedeM]

I've only been on RCCI and Celebrity and they seemed to have recycling trash containers all over the pool deck. When we throw stuff away in our cabin, I believe the room stewards put the recyclables in a separate bag, but I don't know that, it probably doesn't matter (see next paragraph).

 

I watched a special on the travel channel that showed how they process and clean the water on board and do laundry and recyle all the garbage right on the ship. It was really interesting. You might want to find out about that documentary. I remember seeing it within the last 2 years or so.

 

I don't know about the ports and cultures that are visited. I know that when I go to key west, it gets very crowded down there where there are ships at port. I think it bothers the locals more than other tourists - but I could be wrong. So while KW earns port fees, they could be losing tourist dollars in hotels and even more with locals moving away. I don't know though, just an assumption.

[diamond girl 000]

The adverse effect that I know of is my consistently empty wallet :) Now seriously, RCCL participates in 'Save the Waves' . I'm sure that this makes a huge impact on a grand scale if even a small percentage of travelers take part in conservation efforts. Logically, there must be some deterioration to natural entities due to excursions. However, we need to keep in mind that tourism is the main - if not sole - source of revenue in many of the places that the ships port. St. Lucia as an example, their only 2 real sources of revenue generation are the banana crop and tourism. One bad crop and their economy will suffer for years. They at least have the money produced from the tourist trade to help support them. We aren't 'doing them a favor'...we are simply putting money into economies that have very few other options. JMHO

[cruisePRN]

I remember being told NOT to give money or goodies to the children begging in Mexico because they won't go to school. That seemed to impact their education.

[Pumbaamd]

We've seen recycling programs on all the cruise lines we have sailed on. The dollars that go to the islands visited by the cruise ships are difficult to calculate. If cruise ship conservation continues, and island prosperity continues, everyone wins. Hoping this little bit of info helps you. If you need any assistance from experienced cruisers, please don't hesitate to ask.

Good luck on your project.

Rick and Deirdra

[waterrats]

From what the cruise lines actually tell passengers, they really do want you to recycle. There are recycle bins all over the ships for plastics and metals.

 

What isn't seem much is the behind the scenes as to how much of the food may actually get tossed in the trash. I reallly don't know how much would actually get tossed but when you are feeding some 3000 people for dinner, you just know that there will be extra food prepared that just isn't going to make it to the tables.

 

As for shore excursions, the cruiselines don't really say much about them. They seem to leave any information up to the company that is running the excursion.

 

In my opinion, I do think that cruiseships have changed port drastically. All you have to do is get off a ship in one of the ports (Ocho Rios, Cozumel, Grand Cayman, ect. ) and you see lots of people trying to push cab rides or trying to sell goods. It all depends on the port as to what they are trying to sell you. If you go to Cozumel or Jamainca, it seems that cabs are the main thing to try and sell you on. If you go to Grand Cayman, they try to sell you excursions.

 

Joe

[NHLFAN]

Here's a link to what Seattle is doing to curb the diesel pollution problem...

 

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/cgi-bin/PrintStory.pl?document_id=2002397553&slug=cruisepower23m&date=20050723

[Presser84]

Thanks for the link, NHLFAN. I had read about Princess doing this in Juneau, but hadn't seen that it was also doing so in Seattle.

 

And, DedeM, thanks for the info about the Travel Channel. I'll check their website, maybe the show will be re-run before my paper's due.

[pjbrock]

I would think the tourist trade changes the local culture- Ho wcould it not. Many of these islands are dependant on cruisers for their living. On the other hand it does give them a source of income - just look at hem greet the ships every time they roll into port. I think others have covered the save the waves stuff. Most all the tours stress laeving th evegetation alone etc. just like at home. I think they realize that the beauty is the draw.

[Sue L]

We have been on several very ecological type tours in several different ports and the one thing they always stress is the only thing you should take is pictures and memories and the only thing you should leave behind is footprints.

[kingsgirl]

I only have one cruise to speak from but while on Majesty 2 years ago, I really have to admit that I never saw any sort of recycling boxes for anything, but then again, there isn't a whole lot that I can say I would be throwing out since they provided food and drinks for us (hence no plastic bottles or containers that I had to throw out).

 

While in Nassau, I know that the cruise line helps to make money for several locals and our friends encouraged us to tip these locals for their services (eg. we took a boat to Princess Is by a local) and we heavily supported the local market. At the same time tho, because they are catering to tourists, the community has changed from a unique one from a US oriented one with fast food joints down town now - which was disappointing to see, but you can understand that from their viewpoint they think this will appeal better to cruisers/travellers.

 

While snorkelling/scuba diving, we were instructed not to take any shells etc from the bottom that we saw but we witnessed ppl doing this anyway. There was no actual enforcement of guidelines set forth even on RCI own island - they did however have a 15 minute help session for snorkelling which included reasons why not to do something to affect the environment. I don't think they could watch everyone and what they are doing anyway.

[TEXASMUNK]

implies a pre-disposed prejudice. I would suspect he or she assume that we human beings are the worst thing that ever happened to the world!!!

 

I will try and offer a few thoughts. Pick one island...Roatan, off the coast of Honduras. Prior to NCL building a dock, this island was the poorest of the poor within the country of Honduras.

 

Roatan is considered the third best scuba and snorkel locale in the world. SInce cruise ships have begun visiting the islands.....

 

The orphanage has prospered and the children are clothes and being educated.

 

The small town has begun paving the roads.

 

Foreign investors are building private homes.

 

The coral reefs have been protected.

 

Two US flagged airlines now fly, daily into Roatan.

 

One small example to thwart the lack of intellectual integrity of your professor <-- my opinion.

[torpeedo]

I would think that to be a balanced report, you should do both positive and adverse impacts. Seems very one sided. Having cruised in excess of 25 times over a period of 25 years I can tell you that there have been many positive impacts made by the cruise industry. You should look at both sides to present an honest report.

[JanineM]

We have been on a few cruises, all in the Caribbean. Here is my perspective, which is probably way too lengthy, but it is an interesting topic.

 

Anytime you introduce something new into a foreign setting, there is going to be some type of impact. I think you might want to give some thought as to how you define "negative" and "positive" impact. You will also want to determine if you are looking at current impacts, or those that may appear 50 years from now.

 

Certainly cruises are impacting civilisations wherever they dock. There is money introduced, new customs and traditions are demonstrated, viruses are spread, etc., etc. You could absolutely argue that the economic impacts are extremely positive because cruise lines often dock in areas where there may have been limited opportunities to create capital. There are doubtless environmental impacts, however I don't know enough about the methods used to discard sewage and trash to say if it is positive or negative. In some ports you will see a real mess in the general vicinity, other ports are pristine and very modern. For example, the port area in St. Thomas is filled with big containers and lots of garbage bins. In St. Maarten, it is clean and new with no signs of any refuse.

 

On the ships, I have seen the big recycling bins for plastic and glass, and have stood on the balcony and watched the trash being removed to bigger recyling bins to be hauled off somewhere at the port. They must have some crewmembers who spend time sorting trash, because I have seen bins for different categories than you see on the ship. The interesting thing about the recycling on the ship is that people don't create nearly as much trash on the cruise as they do at home. You are limited in what you can buy in a can or bottle, so I suspect the majority of the recycling is from the kitchen, laundry, and bars.

 

Since I had not travelled to any of these ports prior to visiting on a cruise ship, I can't say definitively what type of commerce was prevalent. However, on a lot of these islands they rely on selling all kinds of stuff, and most of it is not native to the area. In every port I look for something that represents that particular culture or country, but I wind up spending most of my time looking at t-shirts made in the U.S. or China, or watches made in Switzerland.

 

I think it is possible to measure the impact by looking at Cozumel after Hurricane Wilma. We were there in March, when things were still a mess. Their beautiful dock was smashed, so we were tendered to the port. Store fronts were boarded up, some buildings were partially destroy --- but many of the shops were open! We were reminded countless times that the people in Cozumel needed our tourist dollars more than ever, because they were relying on that money to rebuild their city. I wondered what would happen to Cozumel if the ships decided to skip that port until the dock was repaired.

 

I don't necessarily think that cruises are making a negative impact, but they do certainly change the places where they dock. It would be interesting if you could get the perspective of those who live in some of the places where the ships dock.

 

Hope this helps. Good luck with your paper!

[Presser84]

implies a pre-disposed prejudice. I would suspect he or she assume that we human beings are the worst thing that ever happened to the world!!!

I will try and offer a few thoughts. Pick one island...Roatan, off the coast of Honduras. Prior to NCL building a dock, this island was the poorest of the poor within the country of Honduras.

Roatan is considered the third best scuba and snorkel locale in the world. SInce cruise ships have begun visiting the islands.....

The orphanage has prospered and the children are clothes and being educated.

The small town has begun paving the roads.

Foreign investors are building private homes.

The coral reefs have been protected.

Two US flagged airlines now fly, daily into Roatan.

One small example to thwart the lack of intellectual integrity of your professor <-- my opinion.

 

 

I would think that to be a balanced report, you should do both positive and adverse impacts. Seems very one sided. Having cruised in excess of 25 times over a period of 25 years I can tell you that there have been many positive impacts made by the cruise industry. You should look at both sides to present an honest report.

 

I don't think my professor has a prejudice against tourism. However, in the class we are looking at all aspects of tourism - it's history, motivations for people to travel and for the types of travel they do, economic aspects, societal aspects, etc. We have been discussing both the good and the bad. I think she just wants us to realize that tourism is a huge industry, and that, like any other industry, it has both good and bad effects.

 

As I said in my original post, I'm not out to bash the cruise industry, and hope to produce an objective report. That's part of the reason I asked the question here on Cruise Critic - so that I could get the opinions of the people who cruise a lot.

 

Any other comments would be greatly appreciated.

[eloyps]

I am from the caribbean and maybe I can give another point of view.Enviropmentally wise,we know peolpe is going to come anyways,so it is much better for the enviropement to bring 3000 people in one big ship,than to have 1500 little boats getting everywhere breaking corals and mongroves!We kind of trust more the big cruises to be enviropmentally responsible than the privates.Yes,it is so very true that cruises bring very welcome economical benefits,but that is not,by any means the most inportant things to us.Quality of life is not measured in dollars,even if some of it you can buy with it.This seem to be overlooked in all the other postings,(maybe this is an islander's thing!!!).We looove peaceful laid back,happy lifestyles,and to us ; that has to do with so many other things other than money.Having said that,I consider that the impact on the islands is not all that big,it brings money,but it does not really interfere with our culture or living.We continue to live the same way we did before,but with a little bit more of cash flow,that's all.Granted sometimes too many tourist may be overwhelming,it disrupts the routine a little bit,but it is not that bad.We don't mind that much.At the end of the day,tourist leave and after all....we are the ones actually LIVING in the caribbean!!!!!!!How much more lucky can we get?

[Fran Harp]

The post by FIRELT5 regarding port crowding has prompted me to post the following:

 

For a class I’m taking in college I am writing a paper on the growth of cruising and its adverse impacts, both on the environment and on the host countries’ population and culture. I didn’t exactly choose the topic, but I wanted to do something about cruising, and this was the topic the professor proposed.

 

I have been able to find a lot of information from the cruise lines perspective, and from the perspective of environmentalists, but I would like to get some opinions from the people who love to cruise. For example, do you think cruise lines are doing enough to prevent environmental damage? Do you think cruise lines make their passengers aware of the need to recycle, to not do things during excursions that could damage the environment, etc.? Is cruising changing the cultures of the ports/countries that cruiselines go to? Do cruises have more of an adverse impact than other forms of tourism?

 

I want to add that it is not my intent to bash the cruise industry. I want to write an objective paper that looks at the issue from all sides, and I’d appreciate any input you can give me.

 

And, although this is my first post here, my parents have been participants on these boards for some time (they post under the screen names Figsgrandma and FigsGrandpa).

 

Hi, Presser84.....

 

Here's the little I know. Royal Caribbean has posted signs and reminds people frequently not to throw anything off the ship. Each ship has an environmental officer. At the Captain's Ship Talk, there was information about the processing of waste. Some of it is burned on board in furnaces which leave almost no trace, and little air pollution (for instance, food garbage). Recycling and hazardous waste is stored and only taken off in ports which have recognised and licensed waste removal companies to dispose of it. They don't just offload it wherever they happen to be. So, the waste which was stored on our recent cruise was offloaded in Lisbon and Barcelona. Every effort is made to reduce environmental impact. Of course that's not totally possible.

 

Brilliance of the Seas has operated high-efficiency engines to produce the power needed for the ship, and using the #1 airline fuel which is fairly clean burning. Unfortunately it is quite expensive, and we were told that in 2007 the two turbines will be taken out, and diesel fuel engines installed. I suspect there will be more air pollution from these, although diesel can be fairly clean-burning as well.

 

Hope this is helpful in some way.

 

Fran in Toronto

[TEXASMUNK]

The sins of yesterday are NOT the problems of today.

 

Cruise ships have gone green. Re-cycling, waste disposal, sewage disposal, etc.

 

RCI, Carnival, Celebrity, Cunard, etc have all developed new vessels that leave almost no footprint on the environment.

 

A very positive aspect.

[rsscaptain]

I wish I could remember the statistics that we learned on the Golden Princess, but I can tell you that all in our group were absolutely amazed at how "green" these ships have gone. We had a bridge tour and the captain talked with us about how efficient and clean the electric engines were. They recylce and clean the water on board even. Buy the time the lecture was over it was apparent that these modern ships are really self sufficient cities that take the environment more seriously than some our small towns do.

 

It would be nice if you could speak to one of these on board environmentalists for you paper. I would love to read it when you're done. Would you post it for us?

 

I liked hearing from a person that actually lives in "Paradise" LOL That's a good perspective. I wouldn't know much about that. Also the Explorer has the only lab on board that it helping research weather paterns and the like. I believe it's NOAH. Other's may know more about that, but I found that to be very interesting.

 

As was said already the cruise lines are extremly different nowadays, than in times past when all the garbage was just thrown over board. Although you can still dump trash over board so many miles out. You could find that list of what you can dump and where on the Coast Gaurd website. It's a bit dissheartening to see that it's still legal but it is.

 

Good luck with your research!

Go Patriots! ;)

[TEXASMUNK]

with the use of azipods, fuel consumption has dropped 15%. Now you have to calculate into the the added benefit that while fuel usage is down, the ship carried twice the number of passengers of the old diesel powered shaft driven ships.

 

Another point. An entire industry has sprung up in Costa Rica. Enviro tours, with students gaining college level degrees in tourism and eco tours have flourished in Costa Rica and Panama....they are income generating for these nations, enhance the education level of the population and educate the tourist.

[whale-watcher]

I would suggest checking out cruisejunkie dot com for some additional links about the environmental and socioeconomic impacts of the cruise industry. There ARE some positives, such as increased environmental awareness both for the tourists and the locals (for example, cruise ship tourists supporting the developing whale watching industry in caribbean nations such as Dominica will help the islanders realize that living whales are worth more than dead ones, and discourage possibility of commercial whaling in these waters).

[Presser84]

I too hope we can keep this a "nonpolitical" discussion, but at the same time I'm interested in all the different viewpoints.

 

I have been on the cruisejunkie website, as well as read one of the books, and one report, written by him (the originator of the site). I have also read many position papers by various environmental organizations that have taken a very negative view of the actions of the cruise lines. They all believe that the cruise lines would not have taken any environmentally friendly action on their own, and it is only the pressure from these organizations, and hefty fines against the cruise industry, that has forced the cruise lines to change their ways.

 

At the same time I have read many articles and reports from various cruise line associations, and the cruise lines themselves, detailing the many steps they have taken to change their procedures to protect the environment. And, there is no question that over the last few years, with ramped-up recycling, the use of cleaner burning fuel and more efficient engines, that the number of incidents of dumping at sea, oil spills, etc., have decreased. I intend to mention all of that in my paper.

 

I do believe that environmentalists often take extreme positions, many of which I don't agree with. At the same time, I also believe that industries often need a push from outside forces to do what's right, especially if doing so will hit their bottom line.

 

eloyps, I appreciate the response from someone in one of the destination ports. I may try posting on some of the Ports of Call Boards and see if others have similar opinions. I know there's been a lot of talk (and controversy) on the Alaska board about the new $50/person tax on cruise passengers. I also know that Bermuda is sensitive to the size of ships and number of passengers that dock there each day. Other than those, I haven't seen much discussion of the topic for other destinations.

 

I'm looking forward to hearing more here, if anyone would like to add to this discussion.

[whale-watcher]

...I do believe that environmentalists often take extreme positions, many of which I don't agree with. At the same time, I also believe that industries often need a push from outside forces to do what's right, especially if doing so will hit their bottom line....

Very well said! I do hope you share your final paper with us; I'm sure it will be fascinating.

[Silvery Seas Cruiser]

Key West did do an economic impact of cruising study about a year ago meant to determine if the city truly benefited from the many cruise ships that visit there nearly every day.

 

They even came up with a dollar figure of the amount spent per capita by cruise ship passengers. As I recall, the average was a miserly (and hard to believe) average of twenty dollars per passenger! That number may include passengers who never leave the ships.

 

They wanted to weigh the income against the increase in traffic, the crowding of side walks, the crowding of local bars, saloons, restaurants, and other attractions. As I recall what they found is that most cruise ship passengers benefit only a small part of the town, mostly Old Town and merchants, restaurants, tour operators and guides, but attractions further away do not benefit much if at all.

 

Local hotels and bed and breakfasts don't benefit from cruise ship passengers because they compete with the hotel guests for services. What I notice mostly as a land based tourist in Key West is that on a busy cruise ship day, the sidewalks can be very crowded.

 

The city must maintain the docks where the ships anchor. I don't know if any other costs accrue for the city. I don't know if cruise ships somehow impact the Keys' pristine waters and corals. I do know that when the ships pull away from the docks, they churn up that water and it turns mud brown for a period of time from the action of their side thrusters.

 

This study in full detail was published at keysnews.com for a long time. I do not know if the study is still linked there, but do check it out. I hope it is still there because the study was very thorough and details both the positive and negative impact of cruise ships coming to Key West and reveals matters one might not consider.

 

I believe it is fair to do an impact study to better understand both the good and bad and weigh in a more enlightened manner which one, the good or the bad, has more impact on the port in question. Cruise ships may help some ports and hurt others. Only careful research can reveal these answers.

[Presser84]

Key West did do an economic impact of cruising study about a year ago meant to determine if the city truly benefited from the many cruise ships that visit there nearly every day.

 

 

I just did a search and found two studies done by and/or about Key West and the cruise industry, one from 1997 and the other from 2005. I haven't had a chance to read either of them yet. It will be interesting to see what changed and what stayed the same in that (approximately) 10 year period.

 

And xpcdoojk, I didn't take offense at your comment - I didn't think it was directed at me. But I really want to say to everyone please don't paint my professor in such a negative light. There have been negative impacts from the growth of the cruise industry, but that can be said about industrialization in general. What's important is that those negative impacts be recognized, and fixed where ever possible. That's part of the reason I asked in my original post whether those impacts were any worse than for other types of tourism. And, while I haven't yet decided on everything I'm going to write, I had been thinking of including something about the negative impacts caused by the construction of Disney World and the increase in tourism to our national parks to help balance the issue. I have to see how the rest of the paper shapes up.