Saga Rose Greenland Voyager August 2007

[bcscot]

Ruby: England's Lake District is without doubt, one of the most beautiful places in the world, combining natural beauty with quaintness. Unfortunately you are about fifty years too late to see it at it's best. England is a beautiful & interesting country, but is grossly overpopulated, being one of the most densely populated countries in the world (along with Bangladesh). The Lake District in the summer makes Ketchikan look like a ghost town. It used to be lovely there in the 'shoulder season' but I think that even the wintertime is busy there now. When we lived near Dumfries in Scotland, we used to go down to the Lake District sometimes, but I used to think that the only time to really enjoy it would be about 3am to 7am in the morning!

 

The Lake District of Beatrix Potter is long gone I am afraid. The beauty of the Lake District is a more gentle & compact one than the wild grandeur of the Scottish North-West Highlands. Even they are getting far too busy nowadays. Fort William is the worst & would compete with the Lake District for being busy, at the height of the tourist season. This is however still a very beautiful & special area of the world.

 

Talking about 'new speak', I prefer to 'speak' to people rather than to 'differences', Ruby. However I hope that I have addressed the issue as requested!!!:)

 

The Alaska season ends at the end of September. The Ryndam is now in dry-dock in Victoria. Most of the ships have moved on but one or two stay for a while & cruise the Pacific Northwest & BC.

Ketchikan, in my opinion is just a tourist trap, heaving with people buying jewellery & souvenirs. What is it with all these jewellery shops in Alaska & the Caribbean?

 

The Columbia River sounds very interesting Michael. I will look forward to hearing about that one. I also look forward to hearing about how stable the Regatta is on the Atlantic crossing. We too enjoyed Funchal.

 

Graham.

[Saga Ruby]

England is a beautiful & interesting country, but is grossly overpopulated, being one of the most densely populated countries in the world (along with Bangladesh).

 

Ketchikan, in my opinion is just a tourist trap, heaving with people buying jewellery & souvenirs. What is it with all these jewellery shops in Alaska & the Caribbean? Graham.

 

Thanks, Graham, for your thoughts about the reality of the Lake District. Bill Bryson wrote about the density of the UK population musing that it is almost impossible to go on a nature walk without bumping into other hikers - and trash. I have a lovely oxblood's leather bookmark from the Lake District that a friend brought me years ago and, every time I use it, I wonder if perhaps I have missed a Place. Your remarks have assured me that I have not.

 

I spend my travel life avoiding crowds whenever possible therefore my dislike of behemoths. The only crowded city I love to visit is Hong Kong which is a city that works for me as a travel destination.

 

I'm confused about your comments on Fort William. When I was there in '95, it was a quiet town with dropdead views of endlessly deep blue lakes and the towering Ben Nevis. I considered it mostly a transit point between Edinburgh, Glasgow and Skye, not a destination.

 

Is the city now crowded because tourists are seeking natural wonders? There was nothing there to see nor buy other than the wild beauty of the area - which may be what draws the crowds. Fortunately, during my visit, I saw no junk jewelry shops or souvenir shops. My big adventure was going to the RBS and getting "new" Pounds Sterling. Evidently I am lucky that I visited Fort William before the dreaded crowds.

 

Funchal, Madeira - big fan.

 

Ruby

[bcscot]

Ruby: Those 'deep blue lakes' are called 'lochs'.

Fort William is a busy tourist town because of Ben Nevis & the beautiful mountainous countryside. It is even busier in bad weather when people cannot see the mountains & do not want to hike in them.

The Lake District is certainly a 'must see' destination, just go at 3am!

 

Graham.

[Conte Di Savoia]

Ruby, I advise friends to always have a trip booked. That way there is something to look forward to. Unfortunately, I have not taken my own advice. I'm feeling a little "cruised out" at this point after a Central America trip on Regent last January, QM2 in May and Saga Rose a few weeks ago, however, that hasn't stopped me from pouring over the latest brochures. I like Saga Rose's Britannia Club cruise next September, however, we don't qualify for membership (must have 35 days of cruising history with Saga). I would like the next cruise to have sea days. This past trip was our first cruise ever where we were in port every day! Noordam had listed a repositioning cruise in April, a rare sailing from New York to the Mediterranean. It's very reasonably priced and has days at sea. However, I recently learned on these boards that HAL has cancelled Noordam's New York winter cruises (probably to cede the market to QM2.) So the question is open as to what to do next. Have any of "our gang" done transcanal cruising? How about down the Nile? Now there's a thought.

[Saga Ruby]

Have any of "our gang" done transcanal cruising? How about down the Nile? Now there's a thought.

 

When I sailed on Nautica from Istanbul to Singapore last fall, I met a lovely couple who had cruised the Nile on an earlier date, thru Abercrombie & Kent if memory serves. Dick gave me a DVD of their "ship" and it looked so nice, and their voyage was so well done, that I have thoughts in the back of my mind that it might be a possibility for me in the future.

 

I recently finished reading a small book "Down the Nile" about an American woman who rowed a rowboat from Aswan past Luxor to Qena. Her encounters with the felucca captains, aggressive males, and hawkers who wanted her money - and more - rang a bell with this solo traveler. This author achieved her objective against all odds and it was a good read altho' padded with many quotes from travelers in Egypt in the 1800s. But the A&K couple and the solo American rower gave me insights into a cruise on the Nile that peaked my interest. Seeing parts of Egypt on the Iron Man shore excursions from Egyptians ports was in no way satisfying.

 

I have transited the Panama Canal 3 times and highly recommend it. Thoughts - in January 1979, as we waited our turn to enter the Atlantic locks, the heat and humidity ondeck were the highest I had ever experienced at the time. (Malaysia put "paid" to that one!)

 

The only surprise I had in the Canal was that, in an 8-hour transit, 5 hours are dedicated to crossing Gatun Lake so there is initial excitement which evolves into a simple lake crossing until reaching the Pacific locks (Graham - lochs?). Some passengers took the overland train from Balboa back to Panama City but I stayed on the ship all 3 times and was happy with my decision. Just watching the men in the row boats taking the ship's lines from ships to "mules" on rails was fascinating. Did you know that a 40-horse motor opens the 750-tonne gates of the locks? Incredible.

 

A man, a plan, a canal - Panama. My only palindrome.

 

Ruby

[Druke I]

I've taken Amtrak on most of its routes throughout the US, with very mixed results.

 

Their on-time record is abysmal, and wags now call the Coast Starlight the Starlate.

 

Timekeeping aside, I love the trains. Once, when I had business in Philadelphia, PA., I took the train from the Left Coast to Philly, did my thing there, then took the train to NYC, and up to Montreal, where I boarded Rail Via, all the way across Canada to Vancouver BC., bus to Seattle, and Coast Starlight home.

 

The food on Amtrak doesn't compare well with what the private railroads used to serve.

 

We've also done the Panama Canal three times - a great experience. We've done the Kiel Canal twice - very pretty part of Germany, and of course Ruby, we were on Nautica together last November through the Suez Canal.

 

Just last month Virginia and I did the Danube River Canal and locks (Iron Gates).

 

You recall my comment re the Panama Canal Ruby - Jimmy Carter was wrong to give it back - we stole it fair and square!

[Saga Ruby]

About Heathrow and Gatwick - which airport did you use to get to your Saga cruise? I made a firm policy of never flying into LHR about 10 years ago and have never regretted it. On Saga Rose, the British passengers would ask which airport I used and when I replied LGW, they would shake their heads and mention the word "chaos." Evidently LGW costs more as a tariff to the individual airline passenger which I did not know. Regardless, I would rather spend a few more dollars and avoid LHR at all costs (pardon the pun). Michael, which airport do you use?

 

I would like to back up for a mo'. When I am on Saga Rose or Saga Ruby, I don't notice the "aged and infirm" on the ship. I see WWII RAF pilots in excellent shape in their 80s, I see well-dressed women on the random walker, I see many passengers with their "sticks" which they mostly carry on their arms for balance in case the ship heaves, I see social order.

 

You said you saw someone "go down" at Dover - I have never seen a Saga passenger fall. I'm sure they do, and I'm sure that death is not uncommon on Saga Cruises, but I'm interested in hearing your mental images of the passengers. Was it daunting to you to be in such a mature age group?

 

I hope I will be in such good physical and mental shape as the Saga passengers when I become a true senior citizen. I so much admire their spirit, their willingness to face a handicap, and yet they are the little engines that could. Please know that these comments are not meant to be a negative to you; however, we all know the American obsession with mortality and the national fixation of fighting the aging process.

 

My thanks to Michael who has sent some suggestions about using Amtrak in the US. His kind information has skewed my mind into a possibility of flying to ATL then taking my 8- and 6-year old grandsons on a train ride in and out of ATL. Hmmmm.

 

Ruby

[bcscot]

The only surprise I had in the Canal was that, in an 8-hour transit, 5 hours are dedicated to crossing Gatun Lake so there is initial excitement which evolves into a simple lake crossing until reaching the Pacific locks (Graham - lochs?). Ruby

 

........................!!!:D!!!

 

Graham.

[Druke I]

We've always used Heathrow - I don't think it is as bad as some claim - it sure is better than Chas. deGaulle in Paris. I must admit when we came back from the Danube River cruise a couple of weeks ago, through LHR for a connecting flight, we were shunted off to a rather desolate waiting area. LHR, like deGaulle, seems to be always in a state of construction/remodelling.

 

Heathrow is closer to Woking Surrey than Gatwick, according to my daughter, and she picks us up there, so I follow her advice, as a dutiful father should.

[Rickey 88]

 

You recall my comment re the Panama Canal, Ruby - Jimmy Carter was wrong to give it back - we stole it fair and square!

 

Michael, not only did we steal it fair and square, we fixed up all the mistakes made by the French and unscrewed all their screw-ups....

 

(and yes, we heartily recommend a Nile cruise and A&K would be our first and only choice for a tour company. Would be happy to answer any questions)

 

:)

[bcscot]

We also try to avoid LHR but usually do not succeed. We are usually connecting to somewhere else & because of cost or availability, we often end up going to LHR. It is busy, congested, unpleasant & there are frequent delays both in & out. I have not been to Gatwick in years but I remember it being just as bad. Charles de Gaulle is not a bundle of laughs either.

 

We also tended to think of LHR as being a place more likely to be affected by terrorism, but after the Glasgow Airport attack this year, we have had to adjust our thinking.

 

My wife would love to go on one of those Nile cruises (especially if Hercule Poirot was onboard), as she has always wanted to go to Egypt. That will have to go on the wish list too.

 

I have travelled all over Europe by train & a little bit in India, but never in North America. They say the Rocky Mountaineer is nice but it is a very expensive way to just travel through the mountains at speed. Better to take your time & see them. There are so many wonderful classic train journeys around the world though. You could spend a lot of time doing just that.

 

Graham.

[Saga Ruby]

(and yes, we heartily recommend a Nile cruise and A&K would be our first and only choice for a tour company. Would be happy to answer any questions) :)

 

Rickey and his wife have traveled all over the world and are a font of knowledge about Oceania cruises and Nile cruising. Although in the past I have been a rugged individualist in booking my own cruises, I recognize the handwriting on the wall and, in the future, will be using his travel agent for my future cruises.

 

It's unanimous - everyone stays away from Le Grand Charles (CDG) and everybody has a story about it. A woman I respect who travels all around Europe for Microsoft told me a story last year about a French security guard at CDG who purposely made her miss a flight for no reason he would name. "You must return to the ticket counter." "Why?" Gallic shrug.

 

I carefully pick the airports I use, partly because our suitcases are perpetually unlocked and partly because I don't want to "enjoy" the vast concourses and corridors of Frankfurt, the "attitude" and poor management at CDG, or the hurly burly of NYC's airports or LHR.

 

Ruby

[Conte Di Savoia]

About Heathrow and Gatwick - which airport did you use to get to your Saga cruise? I would rather spend a few more dollars and avoid LHR at all costs (pardon the pun).

Ruby

We used JFK and LHR a combination of losers. However, we spent the extra money on Upper Class on Virgin Atlantic and found the experience much better. Last year we returned from our QM2 transatlantic on VA in economy through LHR. The lines were horrendous. I wasn't interested in experiencing that agony again. Hey, you only live once.

 

I would like to back up for a mo'. When I am on Saga Rose or Saga Ruby, I don't notice the "aged and infirm" on the ship. I see WWII RAF pilots in excellent shape in their 80s, I see well-dressed women on the random walker, I see many passengers with their "sticks" which they mostly carry on their arms for balance in case the ship heaves, I see social order.

 

You said you saw someone "go down" at Dover - I have never seen a Saga passenger fall. I'm sure they do, and I'm sure that death is not uncommon on Saga Cruises, but I'm interested in hearing your mental images of the passengers. Was it daunting to you to be in such a mature age group?

Ruby

 

I don't want to create the impression that Saga Rose is a floating nursing home. Each of the first two days we were met in port by ambulances which were evacuating passengers who had fallen and broken bones. These sorts of incidents happen all the time on all kinds of ships. We once took the cruise from hell on board Royal Princess in the Baltic. On that trip we had a critically ill passenger evacuated by helicopter. If you've never seen this operation it is quite dramatic. On the same cruise one lady tumbled down the grand staircase in the atrium as she tried to get the best photo of the Champagne glass waterfall. In Copenhagen a passenger fell between the ship and the pier as she impatiently pushed her way around queued up passengers. She was a bit shaken but otherwise OK. Two gentlemen rushed over to assist her. With outstretched arms these human tugboats pushed against the hull trying to prevent this 43,000 ton ship from slamming against her.

I was not at all daunted by traveling with these seniors and certainly admired their pluck. I want to keep traveling so long as I can. My sick dream is to pass away while on a cruise. There are worse ways to go. I have it all planned. Burial at sea to be followed by a reception in the Britannia Lounge. Suggested Dress Code: Country Club Casual. No shorts permitted.

[Druke I]

We did not find the Rocky Mountaineer to be that expensive - and highly recommend it to all that listen.

 

By breaking up the run with an overnight motel stop in Kamloops, you have a daylight run of beautiful scenery in both the Canadian Rockies and Fraser Canyon. The Canadian Rockies, being so far North, are much greener and prettier than the American Rockies in Colorado.

 

We took the Rocky Mountaineer several years ago from Jasper to Vancouver, and enjoyed it immensely.

 

Being a "train freak", we first flew into Prince Rupert, spent a night, then took Rail Via's Skeena into Jasper. At that time the Skeena still had "heritage" sleepers (we had a drawing room!). I'm told that it is now coach only.

[Druke I]

I just noticed my pal Richard (Rickey 88) snuck in on the board, and commented on the French and the Panama Canal. He and I share mutual feelings about the French (and I have an Anglicized French surname!). Ruby knows how I feel about Jimmy Carter giving away the Canal, and some of the other decisions made during his administration.

 

SagaRuby says she may use his travel agent in the future. That certainly would not be bad - Richard and his lovely wife Viv have had some great trips, and I value his sage advice.

[bcscot]

I just noticed my pal Richard (Rickey 88) snuck in on the board, and commented on the French and the Panama Canal. He and I share mutual feelings about the French (and I have an Anglicized French surname!).

 

Bonjour Michael. I told you that you were a Norman!:D

 

I am glad that you enjoyed the 'Rocky Mountaineer' & also Via Rail. It sounds like you had good weather for your trip, which makes all the difference on a scenic trip like that. I used to live near Jasper & now drive regularly through the Fraser Canyon & often go to Kamloops, so I know that country fairly well in all weathers! Maybe I should consider the Rocky Mountaineer. I have also worked over in Prince Rupert & Terrace, have driven over there, but have never been by Via Rail. Michael Palin (of Monty Python fame) did that trip on his Pacific Rim journey.

 

Do trains have hooters, horns or whistles?:)

 

Graham.

[Saga Ruby]

My sick dream is to pass away while on a cruise. There are worse ways to go. I have it all planned. Burial at sea to be followed by a reception in the Britannia Lounge. Suggested Dress Code: Country Club Casual. No shorts permitted.

 

I want to have a Viking funeral - my remains in a Viking longboat, the archer on the shore with the flaming arrow lighting up the darkest night. Attendees should be dressed in their normal animal hides and Viking helmets. My biggest fear about death is that my obituary will read "She died in Irving, Texas." Ugggghhhhh!

 

I don't want to create the impression that Saga Rose is a floating nursing home. Each of the first two days we were met in port by ambulances which were evacuating passengers who had fallen and broken bones. These sorts of incidents happen all the time on all kinds of ships. I was not at all daunted by traveling with these seniors and certainly admired their pluck. I want to keep traveling so long as I can.

 

My Saga Rose cruise had only one "younger" guy winding up with his arm in a sling (the man who jumped into that chilly Lido pool), and the chopper evacuation of a crew member. Otherwise, no obvious passings or injuries that I am aware of. Your British Isles cruise was a medically busy one!

 

I didn't know there is a Britannia Club for Saga members. I have exactly 34 days with Saga so I guess I'll have to go back for a single-day cruise to qualify for membership. The Royal Mail from Saga comes into my home in such an avalanche that I have gotten out of the habit of reading it. What is the itinerary for the upcoming Britannia Club cruise?

 

Ruby

[Saga Ruby]

Being a "train freak", we first flew into Prince Rupert, spent a night, then took Rail Via's Skeena into Jasper. At that time the Skeena still had "heritage" sleepers (we had a drawing room!). I'm told that it is now coach only.

 

Several years ago in New Orleans, I was staying at a B&B. An Aussie couple was also in the house and we all had breakfast together. Turns out that they were due to leave New Orleans for the West Coast the day before at 5:00pm, the train never came in, it was due in New Orleans at 8:00am that day and was still in absentia.

 

Michael, do you trust Amtrak enough to plan a vacation on their rails? Ever since I heard that story, and with further research, I decided to stick with European railways which are, give or take the Italians, reasonably dependable. Thoughts?

 

Ruby

[bcscot]

Snap Ruby!

 

I think that it is very hard to get permission for burials at sea now. How about just scattering your ashes on the waves, followed by a good 'wake' on the cruise ship?

 

I do not think that the Vikings used bows & arrows Ruby.:) Those Vikings do seem to get in everywhere!

 

Graham.

[bcscot]

Double snap Ruby!:)

 

Graham.

[Conte Di Savoia]

 

I didn't know there is a Britannia Club for Saga members. I have exactly 34 days with Saga so I guess I'll have to go back for a single-day cruise to qualify for membership. The Royal Mail from Saga comes into my home in such an avalanche that I have gotten out of the habit of reading it. What is the itinerary for the upcoming Britannia Club cruise?

 

Ruby

 

This special 22 night cruise leaves September 28 for Lorient, Bordeaux, Bilbao, Oporto, Lisbon, Las Palmas, Funchal for two days to see the Tall Ships Regatta, Casablanca with an included overnight trip to Marrakesh , Malaga, Cadiz, and La Coruna. They even include free house wine with lunch and dinner! So sorry you're one day short.

[Saga Ruby]

I think that it is very hard to get permission for burials at sea now. How about just scattering your ashes on the waves, followed by a good 'wake' on the cruise ship? I do not think that the Vikings used bows & arrows Ruby.:) Those Vikings do seem to get in everywhere! Graham.

 

Um, who said anything about permission for a burial at sea? My son the pilot, a small plane, the urn, prop wash. Done and done. Besides, it could be said that, outside Malaga on Celebrity Constellation, my father's ashes were returned to his roots. Just gotta allow for windage on the top deck.

 

Okay, Graham, you have gotten my full attention about Vikings, longboats, and archers. On Google I ran "Vikings funeral archers" and got tons of silly pages with questionable information, but one website wrote in fine detail about the evolution and migration of the Vikings into Russia and bows and arrows came into use.

 

Some of the practices in ancient times were so gross that I skipped over them. But I am sticking to my Viking scenario until you can prove me wrong with information more solid than that which is obtained on Wikipedia, an "authority" I would never use.

 

Ruby

[Saga Ruby]

This special 22 night cruise leaves September 28 for Lorient, Bordeaux, Bilbao, Oporto, Lisbon, Las Palmas, Funchal for two days to see the Tall Ships Regatta, Casablanca with an included overnight trip to Marrakesh , Malaga, Cadiz, and La Coruna. They even include free house wine with lunch and dinner! So sorry you're one day short.

 

As you could tell, I had no clue and thanks for typing in all that information about ports and all that jazz. As we have discussed, I am "cruised out" and cannot bear to think of booking any voyage in the near future, but it's always nice to know about possibilities.

 

The big discussion on Saga Rose was where Capt. McLundie is taking his "mystery cruise." Many people were signed up for it and the joke was how to pack, warm weather or cold. I said there is no way they are going north to cold weather - Brits seek the sun for obvious reasons and Saga consistently listens to its customers.

 

Ruby

[bcscot]

Ruby: I consulted the BBC on Viking weapons & they say that the spear, sword & battle axe were the main weapons used, but bows & arrows were used, so I bow once more to your superior knowledge. Vikings used bows & arrows, & the Rocky Mountaineer is a wonderful trip, worth every cent of it's moderate price. Thats what I like about this thread; it is so educational!:D

 

Graham.

[Saga Ruby]

Rickey 88, can you tell Conte and me some of the details of your Nile cruise? How long and what ship? All Egyptian crew and chef? How many passengers? Any positives or negatives? Thoroughly satisfied or a wish that doodah had been a bit different?

 

I bow once more to your superior knowledge. Thats what I like about this thread; it is so educational!:D Graham.

 

I ain't got no stinkin' knowledge but I am one fine researcher on the Web. And a tip of the hat to you for letting me soak up a bit of background about the early Vikings. I never care about who's right and who's wrong, I just want to learn something interesting and this discussion has been edumacational.

 

I am wondering about D'maniac. No word from him for awhile. Sir Donald, are you out there? Are you being tortured by dental instruments? I hope all is well.

 

 

Ruby