Lewd is crude but not a crime

[big_duck]

I would have handled the matter in person like an adult, not run to some anonymous BBS like a chicken and make a big deal out of nothing.

 

The complainant did nothing of the sort. She sent an email of complaint to the Naval Academy.

 

An entirely appropriate action under the circumstances.

 

If the Mids had remained anyonymous college spring breakers, this would have been an incident of much milder proporations.

 

By identifying themselves as Mids, they then took on the responsiblity of representing the Navy in the best light possible.

[terri910]

Gee, it seems that some CCers are more likely to get exercised over chair hogging than sexual assault.

An interesting -- and astute -- observation.

[babyher]

OK , unless I am reading something different than everyone else here. This is all based on an E mail some woman sent to the Naval Academy making accusations.

 

From what I read that is all they had to go on. Someone sent an E mail making accusations, no proof, didn't mention if they named any perpertrator by name.

 

Anyone of us can send an e mail to anyone else's boss/husband /wife , whatever and claim all kinds of things ......Prove it.

 

Also from what I have read The Academy took testimony from some of these midshipman and other pax on the cruise. Obviously that testimony didn't back up this womans E mail that any sort of crime took place.

 

Again , I am only going from what I read in the article.

 

Who knows what the womans motive was to write the E mail.

[boaterette]

Weren;t these the guys who were wearing speedo's and cowboy hats? At least that is what I remember from the original post. Who cares if they wear speedo's. And how do any of you know if the girls didn't tell them they were over 21. Gee teenage girls have never been known to lie about their age to appear older. No one has any proof. The only one that complained was an observer and not even involved with the guys. I just don't put much stock in one report these days.

[KtBarker]

And how do any of you know if the girls didn't tell them they were over 21. Gee teenage girls have never been known to lie about their age to appear older. No one has any proof. The only one that complained was an observer and not even involved with the guys. I just don't put much stock in one report these days.

I was thinking the EXACT same thing! There have been times where I have been offered a drink (or vice versa) to someone I just met, and they (I) have never bothered to ask for proof of age before I buy it for them.

 

My sister who is 6 years younger than me has always been thought of as the 'older' looking sister. (Yes I did/do look young for my age)... but if someone found out I was legal they would have assumed she was too.

 

I understand they were rowdy, maybe too rowdy, but one persons allegations doesn't constitute that these men were truly doing what was said. Actions should have been taken during the vacation not post vacation.

[papermans]

If this happened on shore in US would it be considered a crime? And would it be prosecuted?

[big_duck]

I was thinking the EXACT same thing! There have been times where I have been offered a drink (or vice versa) to someone I just met, and they (I) have never bothered to ask for proof of age before I buy it for them.

 

 

Where you horizontal on a couch and almost passed out at the time?

 

That would appear to be the real issue here. Not necessarily that she was underage but the fact they were trying to get her really, really drunk for nefarious reasons.

[PINEVIEW01]

Is there a video that I missed? The story is hearsay, unless there is proof. I am sure that disciplinary actions would have been taken, had the Academy found them to be guilty... maybe they did discipline. The story given on the OPs post is quite short. Is there more I have not read/heard?

 

Disciplinary action is being taken! But, not jail time.

 

"The Naval Academy holds our midshipmen to extremely high standards and this type of inappropriate conduct is not tolerated," the academy said. "Any midshipmen who acted inappropriately will be held accountable and appropriate disciplinary action will be taken."

[Flash4me]

"The complainant did nothing of the sort. She sent an email of complaint to the Naval Academy. "

 

Exactly my point ! The original poster is not involved and placed this issue on the board for what purpose ? Her or she was not involved, has no first-hand information, and is engaging in anonymous character assassination.

 

The posting is as shameful as the alleged bad acts.

[KtBarker]

Where you horizontal on a couch and almost passed out at the time?

 

That would appear to be the real issue here. Not necessarily that she was underage but the fact they were trying to get her really, really drunk for nefarious reasons.

 

Sorry... I don't get what you are asking.

[sgriff17]

"

 

The posting is as shameful as the alleged bad acts.

 

Wow, you've GOT to be kidding me...

[big_duck]

Sorry... I don't get what you are asking.

 

The underager in question was reported to be almost passed out on a couch but they kept feeding her booze.

 

(I am in no way a witness to this, just reporting what was previously said.)

[KtBarker]

The underager in question was reported to be almost passed out on a couch but they kept feeding her booze.

 

(I am in no way a witness to this, just reporting what was previously said.)

 

And the report received at the Naval Academy says it was during dinner at the table...

 

My point was not that they were feeding her booze, but that with certain girls it is easier than others to decipher whether or not they are truly underage.

 

Whether or not it was their intentions to get this young girl drunk (for whatever reason) I can't make make a judgment on. However I can say on our last cruise we offered out tablemates a drink without asking for proof of their age.

[hstrybuf]

"The complainant did nothing of the sort. She sent an email of complaint to the Naval Academy. "

 

Exactly my point ! The original poster is not involved and placed this issue on the board for what purpose ? Her or she was not involved, has no first-hand information, and is engaging in anonymous character assassination.

 

The posting is as shameful as the alleged bad acts.

 

For what purpose? It's a topic of conversation among cruisers. It happened on a cruise ship. Nothing wrong with the OP posting it here where we can discuss it. Shameful? Hardly.

[Flash4me]

So everything that happens on a cruise ship is an appropriate topic ?

 

Then let us discuss your drinking habbits, and I'll make statements that have absolutely no basis in fact. But it is ok because you were on a cruise ship and I can hide behind my screen name like a coward, right ?

 

Spreading rumors and unsubstantiated allegations is just one more form of hate speech, and hate speech has cause more damage then any alleged groping.

[hstrybuf]

My drinking habits don't make the national news. This did. For someone who's been around these boards for over a year, you seem to be taking this way too personally. It's the Internet and this is Cruise Critic. 'Nuff said.

[big_duck]

My drinking habits don't make the national news. This did. For someone who's been around these boards for over a year, you seem to be taking this way too personally. It's the Internet and this is Cruise Critic. 'Nuff said.

 

Given the Girls Gone Wild screename, it is obvious where he is coming from.

[Timmys_mom]

Given the Girls Gone Wild screename, it is obvious where he is coming from.

Benefit of the doubt, L2D.... Maybe he is a professional photographer :rolleyes:

 

Fire away, but my understanding of the timeline is this:

 

The first mention of this was a single post contained within a thread about the behavior of the spring break crowd. The poster mentioned the midshipmen and some of what she witnessed. I didn't get a real sense of urgency from the poster regarding the behavior, just that she was offended by it.

 

Then, an article appears in some Baltimore paper, mentioning that the information was posted on CC, but no mention was made regarding a complaint made directly to the Naval Academy.

 

Later, we hear that an complaint was emailed to the Academy.

 

I don't doubt that it happened, but I start to question the severity of the crime and the intentions of the victim when the timeline is so spread out. If the actions of the individuals were "criminal" in nature, there should have been an immediate reporting of the actions. But firing off an email to the commanding officer after being contacted by a reporter makes everything smell a little funky.

[big_duck]

Benefit of the doubt, L2D.... Maybe he is a professional photographer :rolleyes:

 

Fire away, but my understanding of the timeline is this:

 

The first mention of this was a single post contained within a thread about the behavior of the spring break crowd. The poster mentioned the midshipmen and some of what she witnessed. I didn't get a real sense of urgency from the poster regarding the behavior, just that she was offended by it.

 

Then, an article appears in some Baltimore paper, mentioning that the information was posted on CC, but no mention was made regarding a complaint made directly to the Naval Academy.

 

Later, we hear that an complaint was emailed to the Academy.

 

I don't doubt that it happened, but I start to question the severity of the crime and the intentions of the victim when the timeline is so spread out. If the actions of the individuals were "criminal" in nature, there should have been an immediate reporting of the actions. But firing off an email to the commanding officer after being contacted by a reporter makes everything smell a little funky.

 

Actually the original article was about the email using cc comments as coberation (sp).

 

Thanks for coming up for air. :p

[Timmys_mom]

Actually the original article was about the email using cc comments as coberation (sp).

 

Thanks for coming up for air. :p

You're welcome. I haven't said anything for 4 days - I have a lot on my mind!!

 

So she emailed the CO and copied the Baltimore paper?

[big_duck]

You're welcome. I haven't said anything for 4 days - I have a lot on my mind!!

 

So she emailed the CO and copied the Baltimore paper?

 

No idea how the paper got a hold if it, they never said.

[caribbean dreams]

"

The posting is as shameful as the alleged bad acts.

 

This is a cruising information site, everything that has to do with cruising will be found here, including shipboard inccidents, whether alleged or not, it is news, much like all the posts about people jumping off of ships. No one knows exactly what happend but things like this will always be posted.

[smeyer418]

a couple of points. If I am a woman and I say he groped me, that is all the proof that is necessary if the trier of fact(court martial) believes me. No other proof is necessary. When someone is robbed and says he robbed me that is all the proof that is needed as well. The level of crime may depend on what is taken but the robbery itself depends only on a single person's say so.

The Uniform Code of Military Justice(UCMJ) follows all members of the military where ever they are. As long as they are in the military off duty, off the base, off the country or off the planet for that matter it doesn't matter.

There is a catch all provision that applies to officers which basically says any action that is unbecoming of an officer is punishable as a crime(I think 134 but I am not sure), punishable as the court martial directs. I am not sure whether a cadet or midshipman is covered by that section but there is a similar for non-comms'. Clearly an un consented sexual touching is a crime. It is a crime in most but not all states to give liquor to a minor. The law of the country where the ship is flagged applies as well as the country where the ship is to dock next(maritime rules).

 

for a crime to be charged under the UCMJ the commanding authority/appointing authority after an investigations decides whether to bring non-judicial punishment(article 15 or a captains mast) or to prceed to an article 32 investigation--like a grand jury which may lead to a special or general courts martial-the difference between the two has to do with what penalties can be imposed. Both do rely to some extent on whether the person is available to testify. Only in very unusual circumstances will a crime be prosecuted without the complaining witness being required to testify. Non-judicial punishment can be done with out a witness but the penalties are normally a fine confinement to the baracks etc....(you know bread and water and punishment walks)...

[Cruisin' Ron VA]

Thanks Smeyer for the in depth clarification.

 

Some civilians are ignorant to the fact that military law is different from civilian law. The conduct and actions of some civilians may not be against civilian law, but may be against military law (UCMJ).

 

Location has nothing to do with it. A military person can be in France on vacation (leave) and still be under military law and regulations and subject to punishment upon their return.

 

A little education never hurt anyone eh? :D

 

So hopefully this was all a misunderstanding but if it wasnt then they shall get whats coming to them.

[rgreenpc]

Uniform Code of Military Justice doesn't care when or where... if it can be proven... (military proof is a lot different from civilian proof) then these midshipmen can be charged with something on par with conduct unbecoming of a military officer.

 

Back in "my" olden days we had people get removed from the academy because of things they did on break... it just takes a while to catch up with them... Lets say they got home and got in trouble with the law, it could take several weeks for the info to catch up with them (although they are SUPPOSED to report any transgressions to their TAC with they return from holiday) then the school/JAG must decide if what they did caused an injustice against the military.

 

Then if they are found guilty in the civilian world they would generally proceed with military sanctions as well.

 

It all depends on the severity of the crime.

 

If this was a real issue and the matter is pressed I can honestly see these midshipmen (at least the groaper) loosing his place at USNA.

 

Granted, this is from someone who went to a different service college and assumes that their punishment protocols follow ours.