RCCL New Smoking Policy Discussion (merged)

[Newfamilycruiser]

Thank you all for your replies. I think I'll book an OV room now, instead of a balcony. While I realize that there are a lot of environmental factors that could contribute to/cause lung cancer (aside from second hand smoke), why should I expose my children to the smoke if I don't have to?. Plus, I hate the smell. I wish they would designate a portion of the rooms (one side of the ship) "smoking balconies" and another section "nonsmoking", the way hotels do.

[isujim]

I certainly don't think it would be wrong for them to allow cancellation because of this, but I can certain see a reason they might not. They might not want to set a precedent with this change. Where, then, would you draw the line? What if someone is upset with a slight change in the itinerary (which happens a number of times)? Do you allow refund for that? What if you decide to make the casino non-smoking for half the days? Does that change qualify for a full refund? What if someone loved the old menu, but you change that after they've booked . . . . . ??? Some people, smokers included, would find those changes more important than whether or not they could smoke in a small, enclosed space.

 

 

In a word.........YES.........we certainly can cancel in our country if they change the itinerary, change the menu's etc........AS LONG AS.......we are outside the final payment period. It is a choice we are provided as consumers in our country......people vote with their pocket all the time......as long as it is outside the final payment window. (again playing by the rules as they are established)

 

We probably aren't disagreeing as much as we think........but maybe somebody can explain WHY the UK plays by different rules.........that is the mystery to me........and in reality it is probably a mute debate trying to compare RC UK to what we have in the US........but I sure don't understand:)

[Goofyisme]

I certainly don't think it would be wrong for them to allow cancellation because of this, but I can certain see a reason they might not. They might not want to set a precedent with this change. Where, then, would you draw the line? What if someone is upset with a slight change in the itinerary (which happens a number of times)? Do you allow refund for that? What if you decide to make the casino non-smoking for half the days? Does that change qualify for a full refund? What if someone loved the old menu, but you change that after they've booked . . . . . ??? Some people, smokers included, would find those changes more important than whether or not they could smoke in a small, enclosed space.

 

Absolutely you should be able to get a refund under all the conditions you describe. A unilateral change to a contract voids that contract, while I agree their current contract conditions appear to give them the right to refuse, it might make for an interesting legal case, many of the conditions in cruise line contracts would probably not pass judicial review but why make more lawyers rich. It will stay the way it is but it isn't right.

[cegmar]

You say I am selfish? Read the whole post before judging me... here is a DIRECT quote from my post

 

"I keep my smoking in private... now we can't smoke in our staterooms AWAY from everyone else? "

 

When I rent the stateroom, it is my private area for the week... so I TRIED to keep my smoking confined to either in the stateroom or on the balcony. I would sometimes go to the very aft of the ship so as to not be a nuisance to anyone...

 

BUT... people will not be happy unless smokers are banned from the planet. Funny thing is, yeah, second hand smoke is probably not good for you... but it would take a LONG time and LOTS of exposure to get sick from it... not a week on a cruise. It only takes ONE drunk driver ONE time to kill someone. It only takes ONE drunk moron to jump/fall off a cruise and ruin it for 2000 people. It only takes one careless person with a hot cup of coffee to burn and disfigure a child (I have a really bad burn I have carried all my life because of that)... yet YOUR vices are OKY DOKY... but mine should be banished. That is where the hostility comes in. My smoke might make you sneeze... but if someone dumps a drink on me, making me smell like a booze hound, that is just fine. I am a responsible smoker. I don't smoke around my kids, my wife, my non-smoking friends... I go outside... however, this kind of thing just infuriates me... Hurray for a ban. Smell in a cabin? Ever hear of Febreeze? Like I said before, I will leave my cigarettes at home and take up cigars for my cruise. Maybe if anti-smokers were a little more considerate of those of use who choose to smoke, or can't stop even if we tried, maybe I wouldn't be so militant....

 

Talk about flawed logic.:rolleyes:

 

Like it or not, all it takes is a one time exposure to second hand smoke to increase anyone's risk of developing health realted issues, whether that be lung cancer, asthma related attacks, etc...

 

But to keep on the same logic that you seem to understand...all it takes ONE smoker distracted from lighting up at the wheel to kill someone.

 

All it takes is ONE smoker to fall asleep with their cigarette and severly burning and disfiguring a child (my cousin has had to live with that all of his life).

 

Now add the fact that your vice has been proven to increase the risk of developing health problems in those that don't have that vice, well I think it places it a little bit higher up than spilt coffee on the scale of societal concerns.

[cegmar]

Could one of the non-smoking zealots help me out with this fact: In 1955 male smokers in the U.S. were 54.2 % and lung cancer deaths were 30/100,000. In 1990, 25.7 % smoked and the lung cancer rate was 72/100,000. Could it be that industrial pollution, vehicle emissions, radiation, diet etc. is causing far more lung cancer deaths than smoking?

 

Oh come on, what does that prove??

 

What about all of those previous smokers that stopped but still died from health related issues due to smoking? What about those exposed to cigarette smoke and develop health related issues?

 

Could those perhaps account for the numbers? There are certainly other factors in lung cancer deaths, but to quote random numbers out of context and making that kind of statement, well then you are just going to make yourself look silly.

[Marley-Bop]

Alcheme

 

Athough I agree you have made some very valid points, The bottom line is I would not have booked this cruise if I had been informed of the change in smoking policy at the time of booking. As another poster said, this could have easily been done at the time of releasing the new brochures/bookings.

 

As I have already said, I just got back from the Navigator where the outer decks were closed during extreme weather conditions which also made sitting on the balcony impossible. The smoking areas of the bars were full to capacity and will get much worse when the new rules come in. Other than hovvering about "near" designated smoking areas I found it near on impossible to find somewhere to go.

 

Chubbas XX

[kimbtech]

High 5 to RCCL! This is wonderful news. My husband and I are avid non-smokers and welcome this great news. I wonder if the whole ship will become smoke free. I know Carnival tried that with their Paradise and it didn't work. We can only hope!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[alcheme]

In a word.........YES.........we certainly can cancel in our country if they change the itinerary, change the menu's etc........AS LONG AS.......we are outside the final payment period. It is a choice we are provided as consumers in our country......people vote with their pocket all the time......as long as it is outside the final payment window. (again playing by the rules as they are established)

 

We probably aren't disagreeing as much as we think........but maybe somebody can explain WHY the UK plays by different rules.........that is the mystery to me........and in reality it is probably a mute debate trying to compare RC UK to what we have in the US........but I sure don't understand:)

 

Sorry. I thought it was obvious that I was asking whether they should change their refund policy for any of the reasons I mentioned. I believe they need to have a deadline after which you cannot get a full refund. It would make trying to fill their ships a nightmare, if people could change right up to the last minute, with no penalty. So, they do have a deadline, and if you are past that deadline, I don't think they should be obligated to alter the refund policy for every little change. Of course, most passengers are US based and have plenty of time to get a full refund. I do agree that it's odd they don't have a similar cancellation policy for other countries, such as UK.

[MikeNJ1109]

Just got the update from RCI on thier new smoking policy....it sounds good and should make a lot of people feel warm and fuzzy.. But like so many businesses RCI is adopting the policy to be politically correct! If they truly cared about the health and well being of the passengers they would also make the following changes to their policies:

1. No one would be allowed on board if they had a cold or any other communicable disease...but they won't do this because they would lose too much doing last minute refunds...Hypocricy # 1

2. No liquor would be sold or allowed....there is nothing worse than a bunch of drunks who think because they are on vacation they can be abnoxious..but they won't do this because they will lose too much money Hypocricy #2

3. No colognes would be allowed to be worn or sold on the ship..a lot of us out there are allergic to fragrances They won't do this because they would lose too much money selling fragrances! Hypocricy #3

4 The crew would be screened better and US standards for employment would be adopted...they won't do this because they would lose too much money Hypocricy #4

5. All food should contain 0 bad fats, there should be no grease used and the menus should feature all natural food....they do this because they would lose too much money Hypocricy #5

 

After receiving this new policy I think I will cancel my future BOOKINGS with RCI and spend the time visiting nursing homes with all the lovely elders in their 80's, 90's and some are over 100 and who spent most of their lives in homes with lead paint, asbestos, hazardous chemicals, and yes even had smoked filled rooms.... I guess back when they were living their lives..." Political Correctness" did not exsist!

 

Ok...time to put on my suit of armor and be prepared to get bashed...Here is the 1st thing you hit me for...the spelling in this posting...but don't go there.. because it is politically in correct to make fun of people's weaknesses...in fact because of this spelling challenge I think I deserve some govenment benefits and RCI should spell everything on thier menus so I can read them in my thought process!!

 

 

No reason for the body armour, as it is I agree with you. Many politicians, corporate entities, and the media appear to have taken the attitude that they know better and they need to protect us from ourselves. It's very unfortunate that people can't be left to their own devices and make decisions -- for better or for worse -- on their own.

 

Personally, I would greatly enjoy having no cigarette smoke on-board ship, as I am allergic to something within the cigarette. Realisticaly, however, I can handle almost anything up to a certain point...once I'm at that point, my own version of ADHD (in Yiddish I would say "shpilcus") makes me get up and take a walk anyway. I only wish more of us would do the same.

 

Michael

[isujim]

Sorry. I thought it was obvious that I was asking whether they should change their refund policy for any of the reasons I mentioned. I believe they need to have a deadline after which you cannot get a full refund. It would make trying to fill their ships a nightmare, if people could change right up to the last minute, with no penalty. So, they do have a deadline, and if you are past that deadline, I don't think they should be obligated to alter the refund policy for every little change. Of course, most passengers are US based and have plenty of time to get a full refund. I do agree that it's odd they don't have a similar cancellation policy for other countries, such as UK.

 

Certainly agree with deadlines........I'm all for them and understand why.......but in the case of the UK.......there apparently is no deadline.....once you are booked, you are booked, whether 500 days out or 70 days out.........that is what I don't understand........and probably never will.

[Elizanessie]

We probably aren't disagreeing as much as we think........but maybe somebody can explain WHY the UK plays by different rules.........that is the mystery to me........and in reality it is probably a mute debate trying to compare RC UK to what we have in the US........but I sure don't understand:)

 

The answer given to me on the Liberty Pre-Inaugural at the "Common Ground" meeting was...Not Possible...not much of an answer I know but that was all that was given. I have campaigned for years now for RCCI UK to consider changing their policy on cancellations but I am afraid it is NO WAY/NOT POSSIBLE situation. As far as I can gather it would cause a lot of problems/issues/expense/retraining etc etc to change the policy here. It has been looked into by our current MD and his team but it just cant be done. :(

 

Cruising is only in the last couple of years "taken off" over this side of the pond...maybe just maybe in a few years they will reconsider the policy and find a way to change it...but at the moment we are stuck with what we have.:(

[Marley-Bop]

I have approx 290 days before sail date :(, I only booked the cruise in the middle of June 2007.

 

Chubbas XX

[alcheme]

I have approx 290 days before sail date :(, I only booked the cruise in the middle of June 2007.

 

Chubbas XX

 

Well, I hope you end up taking the cruise, have nice weather and a wonderful time. :)

[AmyGarner]

So, before this, no irons and such were allowed in cabins, but lit cigarettes and cigars were? I know I've heard of fires in hotels and dorms starting from lit smoking implements (including the illegal kind) - has there been any fires on cruise ships from them?

 

It is good to remember that smoking is a privilege, not a right. No business has to allow anybody to smoke on their property, cruise ships and hotels included.

 

I was going to bring this up as well. The first thing I thought of was when I saw the policy change was that there must have been another fire on another ship. I am actually surprised this policy wasn't enacted a few years, when a ship had several staterooms on several decks severely damaged from someone's cigarette butt.

[LHP]

Might I suggest a small tip for those nonsmokers who are concerned about their balconies. Wish I could take credit for this idea, but it came from somone else. I would give them credit, if I could remember who.

 

Carry two of the small, battery operated personal fans. They are tiny, don't take up much room and if there is smoke coming onto your balcony, simply direct the fan to blow it away.

 

That way smokers can use their balconies without worrying about bothering others and nonsmokers can enjoy their balconies without smoke.

 

Piano bar entertainers who do not smoke, use larger fans on their pianos all the time to redirect the smoke.

[OHCruisin]

This is why I think the smokers are upset about the new policy... it is all "baby steps", eliminating place by place, with the non-smokers saying "I applaud this, after all it's not like we're making it illegal, what are they getting so upset about?" ... Tell that to the employees of the hospital near me that outlaws smoking by their employees within a mile of their facility.... this includes in their car on property the hospital doesn't own. but, hey, they are not saying you can't smoke, after all, it's still legal....

 

Actually, one of the hospital groups in my area HAS instituted a new policy that they won't hire smokers. In addition, current employees will be helped to quit. After a certain time, there will be random blood tests. If nicotine is in their system, they'll be fired.

[Shipyard Cruiser]

If most of your cruisers don't smoke why would you allow smoking on half the ship?

 

It seems to me that no smoking is just good business.

 

Not that may people still smoke and the number is dropping fast.

 

So the new smoking policy is really no big deal to most of us.

 

Just the few hard core smokers who can't or won't quit.

 

And they are always the ones who will yell the loudest.

 

Just read any of the smoking post out here.

 

For the cruise line it's nothing personal, just business and keeping most of their cruises happy.

[PA Dutchman]

The feel good move by RCI. The only place where you would not bother someone else smokeing, thats what they ban. So it really won't change anything for the complainers. But it looks good.

[Dolby1000]

"No reason for the body armour, as it is I agree with you. Many politicians, corporate entities, and the media appear to have taken the attitude that they know better and they need to protect us from ourselves. It's very unfortunate that people can't be left to their own devices and make decisions -- for better or for worse -- on their own."

 

And why do you suppose this has happenned over the last two decades?

 

Can you say lawsuits? These companies have to protect us from ourselves because if they don't, we will sue them (and win sometimes too) for not doing so.

 

So, in order to get insurance, protect themselves from lawsuits and try to keep prices manageable (at best), rules, rules, rules, rules, rules and lawsuits, lawsuits, lawsuits.

 

In less than 50 years, I suspect many theme parks, carnivals, roller coasters etc. will all be gone, due to impossibly high insurance premiums or wiped out by lawsuits. How's that for a pessimestic (okay, now I'm on board with the bad spelling) outlook.

 

And, actually, yes, hyprocrisy is the order of the day as RCL is a business and the bottom line is what it is all about. Find me a business that doesn't have it hyprocrisies.

 

As for smoking, well, personally I am happy with the policy. I too am allergic to it, so I would like to go to the casino once in while without leaving due to terrible wheezing because some smoker sits next to me at the blackjack table and blows smoke away from them an directly in my direction (it happens a lot).

 

And if you think other cruise lines won't follow suit, well, maybe not those in Europe, but I bet most cruise lines that serve the US will adopt similiar policies.

 

Dolby1000

[Happy ks]

I have approx 290 days before sail date :(, I only booked the cruise in the middle of June 2007.

 

Chubbas XX

 

I have an idea, why not use some of that time to participate in a stop smoking program :)

 

Not only will those who love you be thrilled, your overall health will be so much better. You can do it!

[Lynn the Cruiser]

Personally, I don't think RCI will ever be "smoke free", and actually I it would be stupid on their part to do so. I am not a smoker, but my best friend's DH is and they cruise with us and I want them to continue to cruise with us. I don't think RCI could ever expect smokers to not be able to smoke for an entire 8-12 day cruise. Could you imagine the group of people rushing to get off the ship at the ports!!!!! There would be stampedes!(lol) Personally, smoke doesn't bother me outside. It's not like I am ever standing around "hundreds" of people smoking...and if that would ever be the case, I would move. In inclosed places, smoke does bother me so I limit myself in those places (probably saving myself some money-casino). Now we all know that most work places, restaurants, etc are smoke-free, but the smokers have the options to go outside. So smoking "outside" on the cruise ship is the same thing. As far as the smokers go, when arguing your point, don't try to say that there is nothing wrong with smoking, because it IS unhealthy and everyone knows that, even the smokers (and so is lots of other things, but they don't necessarily affect other people). I know lots of smokers just ENJOY smoking for whatever reason and will never quit so smoke away in outside open spaces and try to get over the room thing, it's no different than any other places today, that's just the way it is, whether you like it or not, you probably can't smoke at work either. As far as Atlantic City, they lost some revenue when the casinos opened in Pennsylvania, it's not just the smoking.

[alcheme]

I don't believe it's health and well-being or political correctness. It's a business decision. They are not a benevolent organization interested in improving everyone's health. They are a provider of vacations. If they have done a little market research and believe that wellness and "Vitality" will sell, then they'll do it. It's not hypocrisy to offer healthy options without eliminated every possible unhealthy option. They're not claiming to force healthy options upon people. (I realize some smokers may disagree, because of the new stateroom policy, but they're still not trying to force you to quite smoking, just to keep it out of the staterooms.)

 

Bottom line, though, it's not about being politically correct; it's about what they think will be best for their company. Time will tell if they made the right call.

[trock]

I am not going to read back through this whole thread to hear everyone's social and political views on this subject. Flame Me, I really don't care! I am typically a non-smoker. When I go on vacation I drink alcohol and I smoke while I am doing it. I stay off your Island and don't bother you, so do not bother me if I am in my area and doing what I am aloud to do. If I don't want to smoke I go away from it. If I do want to smoke, I go to those areas.

If you or your kids have an alergy to something it is your responsibilty to know that, not the cruise lines. If you are appauled by the cruise, then don't go. I will make that choice my self one day.

The smoking section is not that large to begin with. You people ( and not all, some have made sense ), as I said I am not going to read the whole thread.

I'm sorry to do a flamming post but darn it folks, why can't we just go on vacation anymore. Why does everyone need a cause to Champion! Leave it alone and relax and enjoy your time. Sorry to say this, but without smokers, drinkers, gamblers and sponsers, the cruise industry will not grow and it will calapse. If you like economical cruising, then enjoy the fact that the people that are doing the smoking are paying the bills to keep your trip affordable!:cool:

 

 

 

AMEN

I just want to go on vacation and chilll!!!!!!!!!!!!

No worries...Isnt that what vacation is about

[crusinmama06]

Disney not too long ago announce that all there hotels were smoke free and the response has been great.

 

How do you figure it's been "great"? There was a HUGE controversy over this as well and as a backlash MANY people booked non Disney properties like the Swan/Dolphin for their Disney trips.

 

Disney does not allow smoking on their balconies AT ALL and only have one small smoking area per HUGE resort property so the parents would have to leave their children in the room or take the child TO the smoking section...instead of just simply being able to step outside on a balcony.

 

So who does THIS benefit? The children being left alone in the room or the ones being taken to a smoking area? (Obviously neither works)

 

My group in August...we usually stay at the Wilderness Lodge at $400/night. Gone...I voted with my wallet and booked the Swan/Dolphin for my entire group.

[rsscaptain]

How do you figure it's been "great"? There was a HUGE controversy over this as well and as a backlash MANY people booked non Disney properties like the Swan/Dolphin for their Disney trips.

 

Disney does not allow smoking on their balconies AT ALL and only have one small smoking area per HUGE resort property so the parents would have to leave their children in the room or take the child TO the smoking section...instead of just simply being able to step outside on a balcony.

 

So who does THIS benefit? The children being left alone in the room or the ones being taken to a smoking area? (Obviously neither works)

 

My group in August...we usually stay at the Wilderness Lodge at $400/night. Gone...I voted with my wallet and booked the Swan/Dolphin for my entire group.

 

Michelle you might want to check that reservation. We just booked at the Swan for November and I thought I read that they have gone non-smoking as well. I am not sure but if it's important to you, I'd give it a check...:)