RCCL New Smoking Policy Discussion (merged)

[Mark_K]

Thanks for the reference, as per usual, it seems that if you check two different studies, you'll get two different conclusions, usually directly contradictory. Guess it depends on what conclusion the study author wants to draw. Problem is, you never get a complete perspective. However, I will say that the study you reference does not establish that there is any increase in illness or infection, only the probability of an increase due to confined quarters and lack of outside ventilation. LOL, how's that for geek speak?

Much like the smoking and global warming studies. The two things you can be sure of ... Researchers have lives, families, etc. just like the rest of us and need money to live on. Producing research that is neither alarming in nature nor in line with the popular group think of the day is not a good way to get more funding and to keep your family fed.

[Hondu]

Actually, the smarter thing would be to have forward cabins non-smoking so that the smoke is going in the opposite direction as the ship moves. ;)

 

what happens when the ship is in port and a nonsmoker wants to enjoy the balcony while the offending party is on his balcony puffing away in ecstasy?

[Bakincakes]

what happens when the ship is in port and a nonsmoker wants to enjoy the balcony while the offending party is on his balcony puffing away in ecstasy?

 

 

Well since it is a designated smoking area you might speak with your neighbor. It will be up to them whether or not to accomodate you.

[Schplinky]

Much like the smoking and global warming studies. The two things you can be sure of ... Researchers have lives, families, etc. just like the rest of us and need money to live on. Producing research that is neither alarming in nature nor in line with the popular group think of the day is not a good way to get more funding and to keep your family fed.

 

So now you don't believe the studies on global warming, either? It's interesting what's up for debate these days. Can Darwinism/intelligent design be far behind in this debate? Where babies come from?

 

I have yet to read on this thread one smoker say they think it is a healthy thing to do, and yet they try to cast in doubt any study that says it isn't.

 

I say we serve folks who doubt the smoking studies their food on aluminum plates in asbestos coated rooms, since they likely don't believe those studies, either.

[Hondu]

 

RCCL do the right thing and ban it from all venues onboard the ship - except outer decks !!!

 

jj....

 

Now, now, not too fast. We must give the smokers a chance to adjust.

 

How about January 1, 2010 for smoking on open decks only?

[Goofyisme]

As Mark_K so properly points out, in the world of studies and research you most often get what you paid for as a conclusion. Which is what can make these type of threads so much fun to read and allows people of diverse opinion to authoritatively quote various studies and reports.

As for myself, I firmly believe smoking is bad for me - quit 23 years ago.

I think it is probable that second hand smoke can contribute to ones susceptibility to cancer, however I am not convinced that it is a greater threat than any of the multitude of carcenigens we are exposed to daily.

That said, while I am not especially sensitive to smoke I avoid it when I can. Everyone can have their own opinion and express it in a civil manner but those that are zealots and in an overbearing manner loudly proclaim their belief as the only true fact (on both sides of the argument) and try to belittle those who disagee are merely amusing and do little to effectively promote their cause to the intelligent reader.

So keep 'em coming I am hard up for amusments these days.

[Hondu]

 

I say we serve folks who doubt the smoking studies their food on aluminum plates in asbestos coated rooms, since they likely don't believe those studies, either.

 

Will that be in Traditional or Anytime Dining?:)

[Mark_K]

So now you don't believe the studies on global warming, either? It's interesting what's up for debate these days. Can Darwinism/intelligent design be far behind in this debate? Where babies come from?

 

I have yet to read on this thread one smoker say they think it is a healthy thing to do, and yet they try to cast in doubt any study that says it isn't.

 

I say we serve folks who doubt the smoking studies their food on aluminum plates in asbestos coated rooms, since they likely don't believe those studies, either.

In the mid 1980's, the water levels were rising in the Great Lakes, all the studies concluded that there was no end in sight and they were going to continue to rise (the alarmist conclusion, that guaranteed further funding for studies). Lots of people spent lots of money moving houses, putting up huge breakwaters, etc.

 

The lake levels have been going down ever since. Now we have studies saying they're going to continue to fall (the alarmist conclusion that guarantees further funding for studies).

 

So, to answer your question, I believe there is global warming, even researchers can read thermometers. But, no, I don't believe they know much, if any, more about the causes and cures than they did about Great Lakes water levels. But they do know what gets their funding continued.

[Lynn the Cruiser]

I keep reading about all kinds of different "studies" and "research." What's the point? Do you want the point to be that no "conclusions" are truly accurate or correct? Which then might lead some to believe that second hand smoke and/or smoking is not bad for you?:confused:

[TXSailor]

Wonder why RCI will be implementing a "cleaning fee" in smoker's cabins starting January 2008? Are not the stateroom attendants already deodorizing and cleaning these cabins? So, what is the difference between today and January 2008? Absolutely nothing except that RCI will be pocketing the moolah. No smoking in the cabins means more smokers around the ship, especially in the casino. Most complaints that I always heard were from non-smokers having to walk through the smokey casino to get to another area of the ship. So much for passenger feedback, muchless passenger health and comfort. Its all about the money, nothing else. Lets see, how will RCI make more money from this policy alone:

 

Cleaning & Deodorizing Fees

Price Increase on Balcony Cabins (due to high demand)

More Smokers in Casino = More Gamblers/Gambling

 

Fausto

[DC2OC]

Wonder why RCI will be implementing a "cleaning fee" in smoker's cabins starting January 2008? Are not the stateroom attendants already deodorizing and cleaning these cabins? So, what is the difference between today and January 2008? Absolutely nothing except that RCI will be pocketing the moolah. No smoking in the cabins means more smokers around the ship, especially in the casino. Most complaints that I always heard were from non-smokers having to walk through the smokey casino to get to another area of the ship. So much for passenger feedback, muchless passenger health and comfort. Its all about the money, nothing else. Lets see, how will RCI make more money from this policy alone:

 

Cleaning & Deodorizing Feesnce.Most smokers

Price Increase on Balcony Cabins (due to high demand)

More Smokers in Casino = More Gamblers/Gambling

 

When the dust settles there will be little differerence.Surveys showed there would be little change in room choice.The newer ships have more balconies.Most smokers on this thread don't smoke in the cabins anyway because their spouse or roomie doesn't smoke or because the cabin is small and the ventillation so-so.The repeat smoking cruiser is already savvy enough to book a balcony-less cabin near an open deck.The new rule is simply a money saver because it takes longer to clean smoking cabins.5 minutes times 100 cabins =500 minutes =8 man hours plus the cost of supplies times the number of cruisers,add too this most effected are use to or will accept changes,the downside will be minimal.

[copnlpn2]

Hondu - The answer to your question - "what happens when the ship is in port and a nonsmoker wants to enjoy the balcony while the offending party is on his balcony puffing away in ecstasy" is already stated in the new smoking policy - Smoking is permitted on balconies. Period.

 

The policy in no way sets forth a time frame for smoking, nor any requirement (other than common courtesy)to ask permission to smoke, nor any restriction on whether its cigarettes or cigars smoked on a balcony. Period.

 

BTW - After a failed attempt with Chantix to stop smoking this past spring(that's another whole story!), I'm still working to decrease/stop smoking. I don't need applauded or patted on the back for my efforts because I'm doing so for my own reasons and not because of the hype or pressure from non-smokers. Period.

 

Cindy

[ShedQueen77]

what happens when the ship is in port and a nonsmoker wants to enjoy the balcony while the offending party is on his balcony puffing away in ecstasy?

 

I'm going to try and be polite here, but honest at the same time.

 

Whatever happened to compromise?!?!? My goodness, some of the non-smokers seem to want to have it 100% their way. In reality, that is pretty unreasonable and not very fair.

 

You don't want us smoking in the cabins and "stinking up your cabin when you use it next". Fine....ship us to the balcony. Now you want to restrict it there too? What's next? If you say "ban it everywhere" I'll burst into flames! ;) :D

 

Thanks to the new policy, the smokers have put in their part of compromise by being told not to smoke in the staterooms. OK, we won't. Case closed. Now what are the non-smokers willing to bring to the table? No offense intended, but smokers do not have to bow and scrape and indulge your every whim, especially since smoking on the balcony is what is being asked of us. Be courteous and follow the rules? Absolutely, and that applies to BOTH sides.

[bluejeans]

I'm going to try and be polite here, but honest at the same time.

 

Whatever happened to compromise?!?!? My goodness, some of the non-smokers seem to want to have it 100% their way. In reality, that is pretty unreasonable and not very fair.

 

You don't want us smoking in the cabins and "stinking up your cabin when you use it next". Fine....ship us to the balcony. Now you want to restrict it there too? What's next? If you say "ban it everywhere" I'll burst into flames! ;) :D

 

Thanks to the new policy, the smokers have put in their part of compromise by being told not to smoke in the staterooms. OK, we won't. Case closed. Now what are the non-smokers willing to bring to the table? No offense intended, but smokers do not have to bow and scrape and indulge your every whim, especially since smoking on the balcony is what is being asked of us. Be courteous and follow the rules? Absolutely, and that applies to BOTH sides.

 

Thank you, thank you, I couldn't have said it better myself. They (some) of the nonsmokers will NEVER be happy no matter where they stick us. Let em rant and rave. I will sit back and watch as this thing unfolds in the year 2008.

[wraithe]

I keep reading about all kinds of different "studies" and "research." What's the point? Do you want the point to be that no "conclusions" are truly accurate or correct? Which then might lead some to believe that second hand smoke and/or smoking is not bad for you?:confused:

 

 

Yep, unfortunately, the truth is that for every study you want to point to in support of your theory, someone who believes something else can point to another one, and then like mine and Chris3679 discussion, you have to resort to seeing which one was done when, blah blah, blah. In the end, it comes down to what you want to believe.

 

Happy sailing!

[Aubiecruiser]

I'm going to try and be polite here, but honest at the same time.

 

Whatever happened to compromise?!?!? My goodness, some of the non-smokers seem to want to have it 100% their way. In reality, that is pretty unreasonable and not very fair.

 

You don't want us smoking in the cabins and "stinking up your cabin when you use it next". Fine....ship us to the balcony. Now you want to restrict it there too? What's next? If you say "ban it everywhere" I'll burst into flames! ;) :D

 

Thanks to the new policy, the smokers have put in their part of compromise by being told not to smoke in the staterooms. OK, we won't. Case closed. Now what are the non-smokers willing to bring to the table? No offense intended, but smokers do not have to bow and scrape and indulge your every whim, especially since smoking on the balcony is what is being asked of us. Be courteous and follow the rules? Absolutely, and that applies to BOTH sides.

 

I applaud your post. Very well stated.

I think that in the spirit of compromise the non-smokers should give up their assault for a non-smoking casino.

Aubie

[NOT my real name]

I'm still working to decrease/stop smoking. I don't need applauded or patted on the back for my efforts because I'm doing so for my own reasons and not because of the hype or pressure from non-smokers. Period.

 

Cindy

 

Look at your own words closely and see what it is you are saying. You are trying to decrease/stop smoking because of the benefits TO YOU. On the flip side, you are unconcerned about the negative health effects your habit causes OTHER PEOPLE. No amount of "hype or pressure" will get you to CARE ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE DOING TO OTHERS. Basically if you benefit you will try to stop. But if you cause death and disease to other people, you don't care and that is no reason for you to consider stopping. Can you see how this ME-FIRST reasoning would create problems for people who DO CARE ABOUT WHAT YOUR HABIT DOES TO THEM?

[elou]

If our pent up anger over this was e-mailed or called to RCCI, maybe they can be told they are discriminating to the minorities; as well as stating we do not want to cruise with them anymore. I'm sure it won't help; but it won't hurt. I'd love to hear how many non-smokers won't cruise anymore. If I pay the asking price, why can't I receive the same treatment as you?

[dc-snoopy]

ENOUGH ALREADY!

The point of this thread was to discuss the new smoking policy and *NOT* the pros and cons of smoking. That discussion is extremely off-topic. If you continue with this nagging at each other, this thread, like three others on the Carnival boards, will get deleted , end of story.

 

And I am a non-smoker with a wife that is ***allergic*** to smoke. Due to her allergies, we travel with a HEPA filter and allergy medications. We have entered rooms where we cannot smell the smoke but she can tell from her body's reactions that there are smoke residues, sometimes small trace amounts of smoke, other times tar buildup, in some of the porous surfaces/materials. We ask the ship's crew to clean the room. They glycolize (Ozium) or ionize the room, they clean with special solvents and we set up our HEPA filter to try and filter out some of the remaining particulates. We cope. We stay almost exclusively in Marriott properties and only with non-smoking friends. We do not condemn smokers, we just avoid them and where they smoke when we can (yes, the smoke residue on their clothing can in fact precipitate an allergic reaction). We rarely say anything, we just move away and leave. Due to the change in policy, we'll add to our luggage small fans that we can use to keep the smoke away from us if we have smoking neighbors. We haven't had this problem in our balcony staterooms yet, but if we have a smoking neighbor, if we encountered that person, we would probably try to negotiate times of the day when they would be smoking on their balcony. Somehow we'll cope. Basically rules are in place. We avoid the areas where they smoke and we expect them to avoid polluting the non-smoking areas with smoke.

 

Leave the rules to the company. Complain, if you like, to the company. Yelling and screaming at each other is not constructive. You aren't likely to change anyone's mind. Just follow the rules for your side and leave them to theirs. Like I said, other passengers are not going to change the rules, only the cruise line can do so. So, make your complaints and arguments to them. The smoking debate has NOTHING to do with cruising, so take if off line if you must.

[Aubiecruiser]

Look at your own words closely and see what it is you are saying. You are trying to decrease/stop smoking because of the benefits TO YOU. On the flip side, you are unconcerned about the negative health effects your habit causes OTHER PEOPLE. No amount of "hype or pressure" will get you to CARE ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE DOING TO OTHERS. Basically if you benefit you will try to stop. But if you cause death and disease to other people, you don't care and that is no reason for you to consider stopping. Can you see how this ME-FIRST reasoning would create problems for people who DO CARE ABOUT WHAT YOUR HABIT DOES TO THEM?

 

Gee, I didn't see any of that in that post, wonder why..

Aubie

 

[dc-snoopy]

If our pent up anger over this was e-mailed or called to RCCI, maybe they can be told they are discriminating to the minorities; as well as stating we do not want to cruise with them anymore. I'm sure it won't help; but it won't hurt. I'd love to hear how many non-smokers won't cruise anymore. If I pay the asking price, why can't I receive the same treatment as you?

 

It's very easy. RCI is trying to cater to the majority of their passengers. If smoking in your cabin (which is essentially the only change in the policy other than one lounge becoming non-smoking), then you should vote with your dollars and select a cruise line (such as Carnival and all its subsidiaries) that still allows smoking in your cabin. Those of us who are avid non-smokers will select RCI. The cruise industry and individual cruise lines will do what they have to to ensure profitability. Your vacation dollars and where you spend them is your vote in the matter.

 

I intend to support those businesses that cater to my preferences. Isn't that what capitalism is all about? You select the businesses that satisfy the greatest number of your preferences. Trying to convince other members of the cruising public that they should change their minds is pointless. Trying to convince the cruise lines that their policies are wrong, is pointless. They will go by what brings in higher profits. The only way you can really convince them of this is by voting your wallet.

[copnlpn2]

NOT my real name - To quote you: "Look at your own words closely and see what it is you are saying. You are trying to decrease/stop smoking because of the benefits TO YOU. On the flip side, you are unconcerned about the negative health effects your habit causes OTHER PEOPLE. No amount of "hype or pressure" will get you to CARE ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE DOING TO OTHERS. Basically if you benefit you will try to stop. But if you cause death and disease to other people, you don't care and that is no reason for you to consider stopping. Can you see how this ME-FIRST reasoning would create problems for people who DO CARE ABOUT WHAT YOUR HABIT DOES TO THEM?"

 

We don't know each other so it's understandable for you to make assumptions. Since I was old enough to work, I've dedicated my life to helping others in my community. I've been a firefighter/EMT, a police officer and volunteered as a member of Emergency Management in various capacities, including a storm tracker. Now I work as a geriatric nurse. And I've never had anyone refuse my help because I've smoked.

 

May I politely say that you have no idea where I smoke or when or how much I smoke. It could be I only smoke in the privacy of my own home or car. Please don't make assumptions until or unless we meet and you can determine for yourself if my smoking is a danger to others. Deal?

 

As far as having a me-first attitude - yes, I've been accused of that. Ask the fire chief or police chief I worked for and they'll tell you I have no problem saying "I'll do it! I'll volunteer! Send me in first!"

 

Always have safe, happy and memorable cruises!

 

Cindy

[The Beaner]

"Which major hotel chains actually allow smoking anymore?"

 

 

Best Western, Comfort Inn, Super 8 - may not be high end, but they do allow smoking in NYC

[ShedQueen77]

Thank you, thank you, I couldn't have said it better myself. They (some) of the nonsmokers will NEVER be happy no matter where they stick us. Let em rant and rave. I will sit back and watch as this thing unfolds in the year 2008.

 

Thank you! :) I agree that some of the non-smokers will never be happy no matter what we do or say. I support their right to have their opinions; I don't support their running roughshod over smokers. Smokers DO have rights no matter what anyone says as long as we follow the rules that apply to our habit.

 

I applaud your post. Very well stated.

I think that in the spirit of compromise the non-smokers should give up their assault for a non-smoking casino.

Aubie

 

Thank you! I would fully support a "no smoking night" or two in the casino but not banning smoking entirely. I would just choose not to patronize the casino on the non-smoking nights as the non-smokers would probably refrain from visiting on smoking nights. Obviously there are non-smokers who go in despite the smoke, and I might go on a no-smoking night, who knows? It sounds pretty simple to me. I don't understand why it has to be such a complicated issue. Compromise can be a wonderful thing! :)

 

If our pent up anger over this was e-mailed or called to RCCI, maybe they can be told they are discriminating to the minorities; as well as stating we do not want to cruise with them anymore. I'm sure it won't help; but it won't hurt. I'd love to hear how many non-smokers won't cruise anymore. If I pay the asking price, why can't I receive the same treatment as you?

 

I plan on shooting an email off to RCCI about my situation as well. I don't know if it'll help or hurt, but I always feel more empowered by making my opinions known. We were really leaning towards trying Mariner as our first RCCL cruise but I can't justify spending so much more with RCCL on a balcony vs. Carnival Pride's balcony rates, especially since I am being more restricted on Mariner. I would pay for the privilege of smoking in my own cabin however if Carnival had been the one to say "No smoking in staterooms" and RCCL said "Go ahead!"

[dc-snoopy]

"Which major hotel chains actually allow smoking anymore?"

 

Best Western, Comfort Inn, Super 8 - may not be high end, but they do allow smoking in NYC

 

Hyatt is still mixed smoking and non-smoking. Carlson (e.g. Radisson and Country Inn & Suites, etc) is usually mixed. In areas where they are entirely non-smoking they still offer smoking on balconies. I think the majority of the chains are still mixed smoking and non-smoking. The ones that I know are fully non-smoking are Marriott and Westin.