Legend's Unexpected Visit to Bermuda on 8/11/04

[SnowWhiteNYC]

So much hostility!

I was on the Legend 8/11 to Bermuda...I spent not one second of my cruise mumbling muttering, complaining, going to the pursers or anything like that...I waited too long for this vacation to waste one nanosecond...

My husband and I loved Bermuda, loved the cruise, still love Carnival (despite its faults-real or otherwise)

We stayed away from the grumpy people - don't rain on my parade....!!!!
Surprisingly almost all the people we came in contact with were happy and not talking about you-know-what....most had our opinion...oh well, deal with it...be thankful for smooth sailing and beautiful weather...which we had... Spectacular weather and we were going so slow the sailing was really easy!

I don't know about you, but $150 is alot of money...I wish I could say it was peanuts but I don't make enough $ to say that...we spent it pretty easily though... :0)

I called Carnival to tell them what a great time we had despite the you-know-what and they offered us the same 15% discount on our next cruise...same result, no nasty feelings...And we will be cruising again next summer, probably on the Legend out of NYC to the E. Carib...

Life is too short for all this wasted negative energy...
SnowWhiteNYC (and yes my glass is always half full and rose colored...!!!! :0)

[MrPete]

[quote name='steveNcindy']MrPeteLI has been posting.... [/QUOTE]Thank you Steve and Cindy.......You'll be receiving your reward in the mail!

:o

[Momma Donna]

I never had to post anything on this site before because I never had a problem. I've only been on one other cruise and it was a 3 day out of Cocoa Beach with Royal Caribbean. The Legend cruise was very expensive for me and like I said in earlier posts I could have found a cheaper cruise to Bermuda but I chose not to go to Bermuda. I did have a great time but that is still not the point. I did not get completely what I paid for.

Although someone in my group who has been on many many cruises still believes that Carnival's policy on the 8/11 trip sucked. For those of you who are on the Great Carnival's bandwagon I just cannot join. I work for an organization where customer service is everything to us. To bad there are not more companies like ours.

Like I said in earlier posts...I just want other cruisers to be aware of what they may encounter on Carnival Cruises...and hey, I might have had the same problem with any other cruise. But I will keep crusing but Carnival will NOT be my first choice.

SHIP HAPPENS but will not anymore ship from Carnival

[steveNcindy]

MrPete - YW

MommaDonna - I am not sure what would make everyone who is disgruntled on this cruise happy. Yes, you can cruise to Bermuda less expensively than you paid for this cruise. But again, are you comparing apples to apples - same time of year (as August is one of the most expensive times to cruise), same number of days, age of ships and other amenities comparable, etc.? What would please you (and I assume other disgruntled passengers) from Carnival for the consequences of the engine troubles your cruise experienced?

[kellyccz]

Jdinrvc2 - I will start by saying that you should definitely be allowed to post the details of what happened and state your feelings on it.

As was mentioned before though, when you start off a post in a Carnival forum basically kind of looking down upon the line we all choose to cruise on, it may be kind of provoking trouble. Why would you say that you kept your expectations in line with Carnival rather than Celebrity or RCCL - that is insulting, as I am sure similar things have happened on those lines also. Secondly, that part was not necessary to tell your story, and would have avoided a lot of the controversy here.

Also, you might want to check out the definitions of the words you use before you post them. You said to OhioBeachBum, "I have trolled this board for years" - judging by your Carnival cutdown statement, that may very well be true, but here, just FYI, is the definition of that:

"A troublemaker who deliberately posts provocative, hostile or annoying messages in a newsgroup or mailing list with the specific intent of starting a flamewar. The practice is known as trolling."

[bbiggar]

How about reading the Change in Intinerary page of the brochure. Seems to me you were lucky to get any compensation, since you went to Bermuda you were entitled to none.

 

I believe any rate to Bermuda is more than any Eastern route, even from the East Coast. Smile and be happy you didn't have anything terrible happen on your vacation. If people would stop whining about little things the world would be a happier place.

[OhioBeachBum]

How about reading the Change in Intinerary page of the brochure. Seems to me you were lucky to get any compensation, since you went to Bermuda you were entitled to none.

 

I believe any rate to Bermuda is more than any Eastern route, even from the East Coast. Smile and be happy you didn't have anything terrible happen on your vacation. If people would stop whining about little things the world would be a happier place.

 

AMEN!

[Paladin]

I'm sorry, but I'm afraid I don't understand one of your comments. You said:

"When I got home I called Mastercard and put a hold on my payment to Celebrity."

 

Would you please clarify this statement? I don't understand why you would put a hold on a payment to Celebrity as a result of your experience with Carnival.

 

Thanks in advance.

[dolfinmusic]

I am sorry to hear that for some of you that your cruise did not turn out how you wanted it to, but I have a question - if everything happened as it did on your cruise but instead of horrible customer service - you had 100% great customer service and you were informed on a daily basis of what was going on - would that have been better??? Sometimes when a bad situation is handled with great care - it seems to make it better. I do understand also that some of you feel that Carnival knew of the problem before the Legend sailed out - so when over 2000 peole arrived in NY and they told everyone that the ship was not going on the planned route and they can either sail or not - I wonder what would have happened then??? My last question is more of a curiousity question - I am not putting anyone down!! I understand that it happened to those people on that sailing and not me, so I am not judging anyone. Good luck on your next cruises!!! :)

[MikeKool]

To Snow WhiteNYC,

AMEN!!!!

To jdinrvc2,

Want some cheese with that whine? P.S.....My God is spelled with a capital "G". You go on a cruise not expecting much.....then you complain. No sympathy from me that you went to Bermuda.

Mike

[jdinrvc2]

Hello cruising folk:

 

dolfinmusic: your questions are actually the most thoughtful in this entire thread. First of all, if the customer service was excellent I would not still be posting about this cruise 1 week since our return. We absolutely would not be as upset as we currently are. As to what we would have done if we found out about the problems with the ship while we were still docked in NY, my husband and I have discussed this. The first thing we would have done would have been to call the other cruise lines running Bermuda cruises out of NY to see if they had any openings for cruises leaving that week or next. We were extremely disappointed that we could have been on a Bermuda cruise with practically 4 days in Bermuda and instead had only 2. If they did not have openings I'm not sure. To be honest, my husband would probably have chosen to take the gamble and stay on the ship, while I, on the other hand, would have gotten off and made other vacations plans.

 

However, no matter what decisions we would have made, the relevant point is that those decisions would have been OURS, not CARNIVAL'S. The fact is they made decisions for us BUT made us pay for them. :mad: If I was given the new itinerary but decided to stay on the ship - if I had a miserable time that would have been my problem - not Carnival's.

 

OhioBeachBum: 1st of all let us clarify that we did not receive any "compensation." Carnival made it very clear that the $150 pp shipboard credit was merely "a gesture." Hmmm. Wonder why. Oh, wait a minute I know why. Because contracts are not air tight. Because Carnival knows that they cannot rely exclusively on the terms of a one-sided (for the layman - "contract of adhesion") cruise ticket tariff which was designed for the purpose of protecting the cruise line in the event of a weather emergency. So Carnival is very scared that the passengers may all decide to get together a bring a lawsuit. While they intended to score some points with the "rose colored glasses crowd" they also wanted to ensure that they didn't give us any "refund" because to do so would admit that they did something wrong. [interesting point that their little jedi mind trick seemed to work on so many of y'all.]

 

And why, on god's green earth would we ever think that Carnival would ADMIT IT WAS WRONG???!!! (Well, because it was, but I ain't waiting for hell to freeze over for them to admit it.)

 

As to the prices of Bermuda cruises, I will certainly state that they fluctuate, but the "rack rates" for the bermuda cruise are much less than the Legend. Furthermore, the Bermuda cruises out of NY have been in much less demand since the Dawn, Legend and Voyager have started thier Carribbean itineraries. So bargains to bermuda this summer were easy to find. In addition, a couple of years ago we paid $600 pp for RCCL out of NY to Bermuda. This is less than half what we paid on Legend. [And we were on bermuda for almost 4 full days!!!]

 

SnowWhite: I still say that your positive attitude is wonderful, but when you characterize our feelings as "wasted negative energy" your hidden wicked witch may be coming through. However, your points are well taken except for your point about $150 being a lot of money. It usually is, but not in comparison to what we paid. What did you pay???? - because I certainly do not think a 10% discount was enough.

 

kellyccz: touche. But I must note: a) I both explained my reasoning and b) apologized if I offended anyone for my statement. And I was unaware of your usage for the term troll but the definition I was using was: "To patrol (an area) in search for someone or something." i guess the term I should have used was "lurker." Thanks for the relevant lesson in internet lingo.

 

steveNcindy: I'm pretty confident (since I have now taken 3 cruises out of NY - that hurricane season is not one of the most expensive seasons to cruise.)

 

Momma Donna: I have to agree with your point: "The Legend cruise was very expensive for me and like I said in earlier posts I could have found a cheaper cruise to Bermuda but I chose not to go to Bermuda. I did have a great time but that is still not the point. I did not get completely what I paid for."

 

Orrsome: except for the fact that you jumped all over MrPeteLI - I do think that the customer service is the main issue!!

 

GoinCruisin: I couldn't possibly agree with you more!!!! Obviously, I'm not really the "say nothing type!!" :rolleyes:

 

"Ship happens" and, as OhioBeachBum points out, "the truth hurts" - evidently Carnival does not like much pain ;),

 

jdinrvc2

[jdinrvc2]

it's C O O L in here - brrrrrrrr! ;)

[MikeKool]

To jdinrvc2,

Again I would beg to differ with your comments to Cindy and Dave. Cruising out of NY the first or second week in August IS Peak Season! When is everyone on vacation? When are all the kids out of school? Anyone should expect to pay a premium to sail at that time. As previously stated.....No sympathy here. I personally wouldn't have sailed Carnival in the first place because I don't like them. If you weren't expecting much......why would you even bother? Ship maintenance is one of many reasons I don't care for Carnival. The Ecstasy burned because nobody cleaned lint from the dryers.....good thing they were close to Miami when that happened.

[MikeKool]

To jdinrvc2,

Sorry about that.....it was SteveNCindy's comment.

[ihhk]

Someone suggested that CCL choose other ports besides Bermuda to visit. However, ports and 'parking spaces' are booked WAAAAAAAAAAAY in advance. Perhaps other ports didn't have accommodations for the ship.

 

Someone else suggested that CCL "must" have known there would be a problem, yet continued on. It doesn't make sense that they would put the ship and 6000 people on board in jeopardy if they "knew" of a problem.

 

Slowing on exit from a harbor does not 'prove' a problem is already evident. There could be many reasons for a slow down in departure... rough waters, yielding to another vessel, adjusting speed to arrive at the destination at the time planned, etc.

 

The drama on this thread is incrdible. When you boarded that ship, you agreed to a set of terms and conditions. Why all of a sudden are you unwilling to accept the contract you originally agreed to? As an attorney, I'm kind of shocked that the OP is trying to wiggle out of the contract and demand that which is not due under it. CCL made a gesture of recompense, and that, too, was accepted. This was beyond their obligations, contrary to provisions in the contract, and not refused for a better offer.

 

Other posters, I agree with. You paid for 8 days of lodging, food, entertainment, the wisdom of the captain and crew, and visits to certain ports. You got it all except the ports, which were substituted with Bermuda.

 

I don't understand the whole analogy of the pax paying for the repairs??? How does that even come into the equation? You paid for a cabin on a ship and got a cabin on a ship. You did not pay port charges for unvisited ports. CCL was well within their contractual obligations.

 

Even ships have mechanical problems. They run 24-7-52. They are just machines. It is not CCL's fault the ship had problems, if they were up to date on maintenance. Have you EVER had a car problem that you could not possibly have avoided with proper maintenance of your vehicle (FLAT TIRE, PERHAPS?). Do you blame the dealership or sales guy for that flat tire because they "should have known" it would happen? Of course not. Not everything is foreseeable. As far as Legend being "only 2 years old", I've seen brand new Cadillacs on the side of the road needing attention... it happens.

 

I agree with others... you were still housed, entertained, fed, and had all the amenities of the ship at your disposal for the entire week. You visited the port CCL was able to provide, given the situation. You were kept safe and comfortable. You had options you did not exercise. You agreed to a contract and now want more than the contract provides for, but are unwilling to OFFER more than the contract provides for.

 

Seems greedy and unreasonable to me. Besides, you open the thread saying you made the best of it, still enjoyed yourselves, are a 'glass half full' kind of person, etc. Doesn't sound there was a lot lost here.

 

Oh, and who referred to the itinerary change as "damages"? This is just ludicrous. While there is disappointment with an itinerary change, it isn't 'damaging' the passengers.

 

Lighten up... everyone is still saying that they had a great time. That, dear friends, is what you paid for and what you got. No further compensation is due.

[momofmeg]

I'm sorry, but I'm afraid I don't understand one of your comments. You said:

"When I got home I called Mastercard and put a hold on my payment to Celebrity."

 

Would you please clarify this statement? I don't understand why you would put a hold on a payment to Celebrity as a result of your experience with Carnival.

 

Thanks in advance.

Hon why be so critical about a brain fa&&^%rt. We all have them. He meant Carnival. Celebrity slipped out because he usually cruises Celebrity. I think about 75% of the posts here have gone a little "overboard" here on both sides. I am just glad I am no cruiseline loyalist. I do feel the poor guy got the shaft. I also feel the couple on RCCL that the hubby got food poisoning also got the shaft. If I was put in such a situation no matter the line I would be upset and I probally would not cruise that line again. Unless something was done by that line to show they cared about my business. It is just like the one post said-Carnival has insurance also and you can bet they collected on it so why not pass it on to their customers? Doing that Carnival could almost guarantee these people would be repeat customers and they would make back any money lost probally 10 fold.

[MrPete]

Carnival has insurance also and you can bet they collected on it so why not pass it on to their customers?

I've seen insurance mentioned a couple of times. Insurance on what? If repairs were necessary, I would imagine that come out of their expense account.

 

If anyone is suggesting there should be insurance for a payout to customers in the event of a missed port, who do you think will ultimately pay for that insurance?

 

All of US!!

[steveaaaa]

IHHK,

Interesting reply.

If you bought a prepaid meal at Red Lobster for a triple lobster meal and they brought you a plate of imitation crab instead would you be upset?

The OP did not get what he paid a hefty premium for and the guarantee was also slighted.If the ship was not damaged it would have made Bermuda in 2 days, thus anyone who wanted to use the guarantee would only loose 25%.Not 50% as a result of the mechanical breakdown.The credit should have been the difference in what a Bermuda sailing would have cost versus this exotic sailing.

Steve

[GayleR]

Steve,

 

Your analogy doesn't hold up. When you book a cruise (with any line) you are told in your documents that ports can change all the way to the cruise can be canceled. Red Lobster doesn't tell you that your order can change or be canceled. It's comparing apples to oranges IMHO. I'm not flaming you, just trying to explain that bad things happen. The ship runs practically non stop for weeks at a time. It's mechanical, things are going to break and need repair. I don't know if it's true, because I was not following the weather, but it was posted that the weather at the ports the ship was suppose to visit was horrible. It sounds like they had beautiful weather in Burmuda. If they were so unhappy with the cruise they should have used the guarantee and flown home. As far as the guarantee being slighted, I don't agree. They were on the ship using the amenities. No, I don't work for Carnival. I just read my cruise documents and brochures. Believe me, all cruise lines have fine print. Every time a cruise ship goes out, something could break down. It's a fact of life. It's a chance we all take when we cruise. It's just that we have been fortunate enough that it doesn't happen most of the time. Do I agree with the way Carnival handled it? Not completely, but I guess I'm not the norm.....I prefer sea days to port days :) .

 

Happy cruising,

Gayle

[momofmeg]

I've seen insurance mentioned a couple of times. Insurance on what? If repairs were necessary, I would imagine that come out of their expense account.

 

If anyone is suggesting there should be insurance for a payout to customers in the event of a missed port, who do you think will ultimately pay for that insurance?

 

All of US!!

I have no knowlege if that is what you mean -I was repeating other posts-but still even if it would cost Carnival a little you could almost GUARANTEE these people would repeat cruise-and a guy who can shell out $1700 a person for a minisuite I am guessing would spend more elsewhere. Ofcourse the same rules should apply to the guy who spent $600-700 for the inside on riveria deck also.

 

I don't think they would have to refund the cruise for example but as the one person said maybe give them a 25- 30% refund or even better tell them they could have 50% off a future cruise-especially as this guy likes the minisuites-YOU KNOW they don't go as fast as the insides, oceanviews and balconies-so instead of upgrading someone who booked a balcony -give it to this guy at half price-he would be happy because he could book the cruise for $850 a person for a minisuite and Carnival would be happy because more then likely he with his income will be spending plenty in the lounge, casino, gift shop, spa, and on excursions. In the end everyone wins.

 

The other post I mentioned about the RCCL food poisioning incident-I felt RCCL really dropped the ball as these people were RCCL loyalists who booked with RCCL 2 cruises a year-hey even if it was Norwalk virus and not food poisoning as some tried to suggest- as loyal a customer they had been it would have been to RCCL's benefit to refund them the cost of that cruise or else perhaps offer them a future cruise free-hey they could have put restrictions on it-like it could only be for certain sailings-perhaps a sailing that was not selling out very well-the people would have been happy and RCCL would continue to receive their business-2 cruises a year. To me it seems the way RCCL handled things-they will be losing money in the long run.

 

Anyway in the end our pocketbooks speak louder then words. If we don't continue to go back for the product these lines will have to look and see what is the problem or else go out of business. So we can argue and complain and disagree all we want but in the end that is the bottom line.

[MrPete]

If we don't continue to go back for the product these lines will have to look and see what is the problem or else go out of business.

Granted (And BTW MOM, the insurance wasn't directed to you....You were just the last to bring it up).

 

This is free enterprise. There will be some that venture off to other competing lines. Those that like what "they" offer will stick with it. Those that don't may come back.

 

I myself have ventured only so slightly, but always come back for the Carnival experience. I would only be hurting myself if I was avoiding Carnival simply because of one bad "issue", that made me think a monetary handout was due.

[beachnative]

JD

 

As an airline employee I totally understand your point of view. Carnival needs to up its customer service and communication issues.

Through the years, I have noticed them making improvements in that area and I give them credit for that. They are still not on the same page as Celebrity but hopefully with comments like yours, they can improve on issues like the communication factor from Miami to the ship. I see them trying, but they have a ways to go.

 

In the airline business we call it "owning the problem". The person you speak to at the airport, plane, (or cruise ship) should take care of you as best they can without refering you to somewhere, someone else. Some airlines like Jetblue do this better, therefore even though they are a discount carrier - and are cheaper than other airlines, they get a good rep for problem solving. When delayed, you know EXACTLY what is going on. So you see, it is not the price of the cruise that should matter, but management policy giving the employee power.

 

When something like this goes wrong - you can't please everyone but the people on the front line (pursers) should be given the information from Miami quickly and effectively.

 

 

After reading all the posts on this thread I hope to best remember AirGirl's statements about "owning the problem". At home, at work, or in the social scene, we all are eventually faced with a situation that gives us the opportunity to do whatever possible to pass on helpful information to the person asking the questions. To take ownership of the problem is to represent our side in a caring way. I hope that I can remember the varying tones in this thread when I am faced with such a situation and choose to respond in the way that AirGirl suggests. Yep, these threads can help us not only with our cruising but also with our choices when interacting with others. I am glad I read this thread and especially thank AirGirl for her response.

[ihhk]

I had a question about the insurance issue, too. Does insurance really pay for repairs and guest credits when a gesture of good will is made? I've gotta find me some of that for my car!

 

As for the guarantee, they enjoyed 4 days at sea. They ate for 4 days, were entertained for 4 days, slept in a cozy suite for 4 days, had all services and amenities for 4 days. Why shouldn't they have to pay for that? You pay for the "8th" day on Destiny, but are forced off the ship before 10AM! No one complains about THAT!

 

Also, what kind of information was missing? I thought that the pax were made aware of the itinerary change when it was made. They were told it was for mechanical problems, right? What more do they need to know? The name of the mechanic in Bermuda? The nature of the propulsion problems that the average lay person wouldn't even begin to understand?

 

Pax are on a need to know basis. They needed to know about the itinerary change and needed to know why. This information was disemminated as far as I understand. What more should have been forthcoming in the way of "information" from CCL?

[kristikae]

IHHK,

Interesting reply.

If you bought a prepaid meal at Red Lobster for a triple lobster meal and they brought you a plate of imitation crab instead would you be upset?

The OP did not get what he paid a hefty premium for and the guarantee was also slighted.If the ship was not damaged it would have made Bermuda in 2 days, thus anyone who wanted to use the guarantee would only loose 25%.Not 50% as a result of the mechanical breakdown.The credit should have been the difference in what a Bermuda sailing would have cost versus this exotic sailing.

Steve

This isn't the same thing. When you buy a cruise you are only guaranteed the certain of number of days on the ship. The ports are never guaranteed and your documents say this. The cruiselines have carefully protected themselves because they know that mechanical problems etc. can prevent you from making it to a port.

 

I'm not saying the cruisers shouldn't have been disappointed. It is understandable but you need to be aware when you book a cruise that there is always the possibility that you might never make it to one port. It is rare but it can happen.

[steveaaaa]

 

As for the guarantee, they enjoyed 4 days at sea. They ate for 4 days, were entertained for 4 days, slept in a cozy suite for 4 days, had all services and amenities for 4 days. Why shouldn't they have to pay for that?

 

True to a point.They did not have the option to get off after 2 days.They do not have the option of eating or sleeping elsewhere.If the ship was not broke,they would have been to port in 2 days not 4. My next question would be how the guarantee is calculated.If you/he took the guarantee the cruise fare would be 50% refunded,plus all port charges since you notify the purser before arriving at the first port,plus the $150 coutesy credit?

 

 

Kristi, per your reply of never making it to even one port.How would the guarantee work then? When the incident earlier this year happened in NOLA (accident at the mouth of the Mississippi) all the passengers on both RCCL and CCL got a full refund,discount on a future cruise and got to stay on the ship I believe?

Just like the airlines,there should be a passenger bill of rights.

Steve