Water on Norwegian Cruise Line

[ZoneHPH]

In all politeness, what in the world are you talking about or referring to? Your comments are so out of context with the rest of the discussion, I don't have any idea what you are talking about.

 

point is that aunt donna bell left nothing to chance. she sterilized her water before using it for those kitchen activities.

[Surfgirl]

You don't actually expect Surfgirl to respond to "logical" question.

 

Where is this personal attack coming from? Why do people feel the need to launch nasty personal remarks when they don't agree with a poster? Or is attacking the only thing you can do because you don't have a logical retort to the link I posted?

[Surfgirl]

Unfortrunately, Surfgirl has not answered any of my questions. Until she does, her report is very one sided. One of the biggest hits restaurants receive by authorities are the soda hoses and pipes.

 

"Her report" ???

 

I'm flattered that you think I co-authored the study, however, I didn't. I merely posted a link to it.

[garycarla]

I just read the article that Surfgirl linked to about contaminated water on ships. It was a study about past incidents and what could be done to prevent future incidents.

 

I did not read anything about how frequent they happen, how big the problem is, etc. It did not compare the risk of drinking bottled water vs ships water. I did not see advice on what one should do when sailing. It did not say if we should or should not drink ships water.

[dadof2]

Article is dated 2004

[Surfgirl]

In addition to the link I provided, there was a case which has since been sealed by the British Courts (Hempel A/S v B BRadford (2006) which provided information about toxicity in potable water aboard certain cruise ships.

 

The problem in the case cited was that the potable water tanks on a number of cruise ships sailing in the U.S. and Europe, was found to be defective. These tanks apparently could break down and release toxins into the water systems.

 

How many years had people been drinking from this water before the problem was found? How safe are the tanks on your ship? How do you know?

 

This is far from the first case of questionable water aboard cruise ships. I'll dig further if you like.

[ZoneHPH]

well let's see.

 

municipal water systems across our country are nothing more than steel pipes buried beneath the ground that supply water from wherever the source may be (aquafers, reservoirs, etc...)

 

imagine how the interior of some of these pipes are breaking down? i'm not talking the newer ones where there is a coating inside.

 

just by realizing this alone imagine all the poeple drinking tap water? by the same token bottled water, of the Spring water variety, are typically ONLY filtered through and industrial sized "Brita" filter...and that's it. the water is then hit with either UV or ozone to kill any microbes in the water. EDIT: yes..municipal water is treated...but it can only be treated so much.

 

but other than that...unless it's Dasani or Aquafina...you might was well just consider it "high end well water".

 

NOTE: there are other local or non-national brands. look for the label that says PURIFIED water where it says reverse osmosis.

 

reverse osmosis = filter medium where ONLY the H2O molecule can pass through.

 

 

for those who truly want to get the other side of the discussion. here is a link to the US EPA safe drinking water page. you can find all you want about contaminants and their limits/allowances. this will give you the reason to drink reverse osmosis water.

 

http://www.epa.gov/safewater/hfacts.html

[Surfgirl]

... and then there's this, from Cruise Ship Blues, by Ross A Klein

(describing outbreaks of E.Coli on three separate ships)

 

"...researchers determined that in each case the source of E. coli appeared to be contaminated water taken on the ship in foreign ports. The 1300 affected passengers had been infected by drinking beverages with ice cubes or by consuming unbottled water. Although cruise ships have water treatment plants designed to avoid these problems, it was believed that the shipboard water treatment system "had briefly failed."

 

The book goes on to also cite two cases of Legionnaire's Disease on Direct Cruises' Edinburgh Castle-- found to be traced to the water purification system.

[closetocruising]

... and then there's this, from Cruise Ship Blues, by Ross A Klein

(describing outbreaks of E.Coli on three separate ships)

 

"...researchers determined that in each case the source of E. coli appeared to be contaminated water taken on the ship in foreign ports. The 1300 affected passengers had been infected by drinking beverages with ice cubes or by consuming unbottled water. Although cruise ships have water treatment plants designed to avoid these problems, it was believed that the shipboard water treatment system "had briefly failed."

 

The book goes on to also cite two cases of Legionnaire's Disease on Direct Cruises' Edinburgh Castle-- found to be traced to the water purification system.

 

You might want to get your facts straight before publishing to a message board where you are open to criticisms. Legionnaire's Disease was first found in a hospital setting. The A/C units were holging water which became contaminated with the bacteria, thus the bacteria was sent into the air through the A/C unit. Not by drinking the water at the hospital.

[ZoneHPH]

... and then there's this, from Cruise Ship Blues, by Ross A Klein

(describing outbreaks of E.Coli on three separate ships)

 

"...researchers determined that in each case the source of E. coli appeared to be contaminated water taken on the ship in foreign ports. The 1300 affected passengers had been infected by drinking beverages with ice cubes or by consuming unbottled water. Although cruise ships have water treatment plants designed to avoid these problems, it was believed that the shipboard water treatment system "had briefly failed."

 

The book goes on to also cite two cases of Legionnaire's Disease on Direct Cruises' Edinburgh Castle-- found to be traced to the water purification system.

 

while i can appreciate the reference for this information...i still don't feel there is a need to be alarmed. yes things can happen (and sadly they can happen during a time when people are on vacation.)

 

now i cannot answer for the water sources where ships refill their holding tanks. unless they have modern water treatment facilities, it's going to be tough to convince someone like you, surfgirl...and that's totally ok! but i still believe that the decision to drink bottled water because it's "cleaner" than tap water gives you a false sense of security (granted the probability MAY be lower in getting sick...but recall my previous posts...there are other sources of contamination.

 

with so many people on a ship at one time...there are far more places to worry about contamination than the drinking water. the 1300 mentioned above were "exposed" in my opinion. now how many truely became ill as a result of this exposure...well i guess i have to read this book, huh?

 

i respect your opinion to drink bottled water exclusively. but i encourage you to understand water purification processes. it's a lot more effective than what these reports suggest.

 

 

You might want to get your facts straight before publishing to a message board where you are open to criticisms. Legionnaire's Disease was first found in a hospital setting. The A/C units were holging water which became contaminated thus the virus was sent into the air through the A/C unit. Not by drinking the water at the hospital.

 

yes i believe that there was an American Legion conference going on in a hotel. and the exposure was due to the cooling systems for A/C as mentioned above. the legionella bacteria became aerosolized into the atmosphere. this is the effect of legionella....not by ingestion. it's infectious route is through the respiratory system. in fact, they first thought it was the water system...but then if that was the case, people in the adjacent buildings would have gotten sick as well. eventually they determined it was the cooling system on top of the hotel that was aerosolizing the system's water. biocides are now used in such applications.

 

the facts on legionella: http://www.osha.gov/dts/osta/otm/legionnaires/faq.html

[hotspur]

So let's see:

 

1. Don't ever fly. Planes have crashed.

 

2. Don't cruise. Ships have gone down.

 

3. Don't go to New Orleans. It's been known to flood.

 

4. Never ride in a car. People have been killed in car accidents.

 

5. Don't eat beef...or any other meat. E. coli has been found in it.

 

6. Stay in your house during flu season. Avoid all contact with others like...well...the plague.

 

Great life, eh?

[hotspur]

yes i believe that there was an American Legion conference going on in a hotel. and the exposure was due to the cooling systems for A/C as mentioned above.

IIRC, it was the Bellevue-Stratford in Philadelphia.

[Surfgirl]

You might want to get your facts straight before publishing to a message board where you are open to criticisms. Legionnaire's Disease was first found in a hospital setting. The A/C units were holging water which became contaminated with the bacteria, thus the bacteria was sent into the air through the A/C unit. Not by drinking the water at the hospital.

 

How can I "get my facts straight" as you put it... when I'm quoting word for word from a book.

 

And if you read the quote, it's not about a hospital, it's water from a cruise ship. Perhaps you need to get "your facts straight" :) about how one can get Legionnaires' disease?

 

Q. How does a person get Legionnaires' disease?

 

A. Legionnaires' disease is contracted by inhaling airborne water droplets containing legionellae. Some investigators believe that the disease may be acquired also by drinking legionellae-contaminated water, particularly if legionellae aspirated from the water are inhaled before the water enters the stomach. Cases have also been blamed on contact between contaminated water and incisions or skin wounds.The disease is not contagious.

 

http://www.hcinfo.com/ldfaq.htm

[ZoneHPH]

How can I "get my facts straight" as you put it... when I'm quoting word for word from a book.

 

And if you read the quote, it's not about a hospital, it's water from a cruise ship. Perhaps you need to get "your facts straight" :) about how one can get Legionnaires' disease?

 

Q. How does a person get Legionnaires' disease?

 

A. Legionnaires' disease is contracted by inhaling airborne water droplets containing legionellae. Some investigators believe that the disease may be acquired also by drinking legionellae-contaminated water, particularly if legionellae aspirated from the water are inhaled before the water enters the stomach. Cases have also been blamed on contact between contaminated water and incisions or skin wounds.The disease is not contagious.

 

http://www.hcinfo.com/ldfaq.htm

 

ok...i'm starting to believe that my undergraduate and advanced degrees are starting to pay off...(finally).

 

it's not the drinking per se...it's the dynamic of how people drink which would result it aerosolization of the potentially contaminated water. (or if you snort it, i guess.) i assure you...there's a certain amount of bacteria in all our water...but definitely not RO water (assuming the system is closed and not compromised). the question is...what is the concentration. bacteria need to have a certain titer (concentration, if you will) in order to proliferate (as well as optimal environmental conditions).

 

i don't subscribe to injestion or parenteral exposure as avenues for L. pneumophilia. the one thing our bodies do without us ever thinking about it is breathing. that's why L. pneumophilia is what it is.

 

and if you look at the EPA link, LP is not among them.

[Cubechick]

Dispense with hysteria. Water-borne illness is possible on a cruise ship as it is on land. As it has been mentioned, with the water purification systems now on board, the risk has been reduced to a minimum, though not eliminated. Again, as mentioned the water purification systems on the ships are much more thorough than many stateside municipal systems. I guess we prefer “roughing-it” Our home water supply is 100% natural, straight from the ground, unmitigated private well water (we’re doin’ just fine. Thanks for asking). :D

What has not been addressed here is the fact that food-borne illness is and continues to be much more prevalent than water-borne illnesses in areas with a treated water supply. I am assuming this is true on modern cruise ships as well.

“From July 1997 to June 2000 there were 232 outbreaks of norovirus illness reported to the CDC of which, 57% were foodborne, 16% were due to person-to-person spread, and 3% were waterborne.” http://www.waterandhealth.org/newsletter/new/winter_2004/sea_sick.html

I know—this pertains only to norovirus but I don’t have time to research every cruise ship malady.

My Point: If you are only going to drink bottled water on a cruise ship, should you not bring along your own food supply as well?

I’ll drink to that! ;)

[Surfgirl]

No hysteria. Just facts. I just quoted a study as to why I drink bottled water on cruises and people when "hysterical". I just don't get it! :confused:

 

Anyway.... guess bottled water, jeans in the dining room and diapers in the pool are three forbidden topics! ;)

[ZoneHPH]

My Point: If you are only going to drink bottled water on a cruise ship, should you not bring along your own food supply as well?

I’ll drink to that! ;)

 

oh man! 100 points goes to cubechick! nice finish on that commentary. bravo! bravo!

 

but i still can't stand the Pats. GO GIANTS. hehehehehe

[ZoneHPH]

No hysteria. Just facts. I just quoted a study as to why I drink bottled water on cruises and people when "hysterical". I just don't get it! :confused:

 

Anyway.... guess bottled water, jeans in the dining room and diapers in the pool are three forbidden topics! ;)

 

don't fret surfgirl. i think what was displayed in this thread was, perhaps a small sampling of what our media has done to us. this whole mass hysteria drives people to buy certain products.

 

"do you have trouble sleeping at night"

"do you have restless leg syndrome"

"are you suffering from depression"

 

granted these are actual clinical Dx...but to have commercials flood our media to the point where people say "hey...you know...i did notice my legs shifting about last night".

 

point is...for every study out there that says one thing....there's always going to be counter studies, as well as people like me who realize that things can totally get out of hand.

 

don't take it personal....((((HUG)))))

[Cubechick]

oh man! 100 points goes to cubechick! nice finish on that commentary. bravo! bravo!

 

but i still can't stand the Pats. GO GIANTS. hehehehehe

 

Thank you for the vote of confidence. For a while I thought I was being too subtle. :D

 

BTW--I like Eli but I have to root for the Pats. We are, in fact playing the Giants on Dec 29th. GO PATS! :cool:

[Don Haynes]

Surfgirl, do you use ice aboard the ship? The water in the ice is the same water you refuse to use. Some people get sick swallowing aspirin.

[jame_g]

Surfgirl, do you use ice aboard the ship? The water in the ice is the same water you refuse to use. Some people get sick swallowing aspirin.

 

I love it when people insist on bottled water then pour it over ice... It's also the same water used in fountain drinks, juice dispensers (made from concentrate), showering, brushing your teeth... altho I have heard of some people using bottled water when they brush.

[dadof2]

I love it when people insist on bottled water then pour it over ice... It's also the same water used in fountain drinks, juice dispensers (made from concentrate), showering, brushing your teeth... altho I have heard of some people using bottled water when they brush.

 

and iced tea, cocktails, coffee, tea!

[smeyer418]

Cruise ships that cruise from the US monitor the potable water supply very closely. The amount of chlorine is tested hourly and the reports are checked by the US public health bureau. The water on cruise ships is manufactured on board or bought from "certified sources". All out breaks of disease on ships leaving or returning ti the US have to be reported when they reach a threshold. Yes dirty hands, dishes and bottles carry disease(by the way it is recommended that you not refill plastic bottles because normally if you touch the spigot you are passing YOUR gems to others(including possibly meningitis)...so I suggest you stay home and boil your water....

[Surfgirl]

don't fret surfgirl. i think what was displayed in this thread was, perhaps a small sampling of what our media has done to us. this whole mass hysteria drives people to buy certain products.

 

"do you have trouble sleeping at night"

"do you have restless leg syndrome"

"are you suffering from depression"

 

granted these are actual clinical Dx...but to have commercials flood our media to the point where people say "hey...you know...i did notice my legs shifting about last night".

 

point is...for every study out there that says one thing....there's always going to be counter studies, as well as people like me who realize that things can totally get out of hand.

 

don't take it personal....((((HUG)))))

 

 

Ooooh.. I know you meant well..... but... what you probably don't realize is that I AM in the media! LOL!

[Surfgirl]

Surfgirl, do you use ice aboard the ship? The water in the ice is the same water you refuse to use. Some people get sick swallowing aspirin.

 

No, of course I don't use the ice on the ship.