Say Goodbye To Horizon And Zenith

[jezzdogg]

Just back from a fantastic time on the Millennium 14 day cruise, wonderful time and wonderful people.

Was told by several sources that Horizon has been sold and they are also selling the Zenith (that is why they did not go forward with putting balconies on them) Horizon will be the first to leave, as it is sold according to my source.

They are being replace with 4 - 1,200 passanger cruiseships, that will be start sailing in 2007. 2008 and 2009.

Also Celebrity is going forward with 2 with an option for 2 more larger ships that will hold 3000-3.500 passangers, these ships are in the drawing stages and we will see the first of these in 2007 also.

[Danno]

Maybe...but I've heard this rumour non-stop for the last 5 years...we'll see.

[chessbriar]

I find that exciting and fascinating. I look forward to confirmation from the cruise line. With what they want to do itinerary wise, it's needed. They went from one of the newest fleets to one of the older. I'd be curious to see it the 1200 pasenger ships are new builds or bought from another fleet.

[gkm]

When we're on the Galaxy I'll ask around and see if they've heard anything. :confused:

 

Garry

[hdawson]

I would hate to see the Horizon and Zenith leave the fleet. Sure hope Horizon will be around for my cruise in Feb 05. I do recall a posting several months ago where an RCCL ships officer reported that the rebels on Haiti had entered and destroyed the RCCL private resort Labadee. Nothing could have been further from the trueth. It does seem as though some people, including possibly those that are in positions of authority like to spread unfounded rumors. This statement is in no way directed at the OP. BTW. The Captain's Club desk just last week confirmed that the balconys are still a firm plan, but with no specific date.

[richsea]

Time will tell how accurate this information is. I'm sure Celebrity will make an announcement at the appropriate time regarding new builds & the fat of Horizon & Zenith. It is interesting that there are no published itineraries for Horizon beyond the 2005 Bermuda season.

 

Personally, I'd love to see X have new ships more in the 50,000 GRT range. Not too crazy about 3000 passenger ships though.

[chessbriar]

I will confirm there are no itineraries beyond October of 2005. Did they happen to mention where the 4 1200 passenger ships may be coming from? New build or buying from another line? My interest is now peaked.

[benjamins]

Just back from a fantastic time on the Millennium 14 day cruise, wonderful time and wonderful people.

Was told by several sources that Horizon has been sold and they are also selling the Zenith (that is why they did not go forward with putting balconies on them) Horizon will be the first to leave, as it is sold according to my source.

They are being replace with 4 - 1,200 passanger cruiseships, that will be start sailing in 2007. 2008 and 2009.

Also Celebrity is going forward with 2 with an option for 2 more larger ships that will hold 3000-3.500 passangers, these ships are in the drawing stages and we will see the first of these in 2007 also.

 

 

I'm getting very close to giving up on Celebrity if this is true. Right now, I'm not taking this too seriously, the Zenith and Horizon have been sold and left the fleet countless times already.

 

However, this proposal is full of problems. I'm OK with 1200 pax ships, exactly what the doctor ordered in this day of same size/same features ship. But 4? Why? Celebrity has the trained crew for 2 ships, not 4. And, hopefullly, they'll test the first ship thoroughly so they won't have the fiasco with the bad mermaid pods they had on the Millennium ships. Also, after the first, the old Celebrity that built the Horizon and Century class would make improvements and design changes to the next in series. Within this short time frame it sounds like they'll just churn out 4 peas-in-the-pod, can't tell one from the other ships, so any design mistakes in the first one would make it into the next 3.

 

The big ships. Forget it. Who needs more big ships. Not interested.

 

The cruise public so far much has shown it is eager for new over creative or setting high quality standards. The whole point of holding Celebrity to fewer ships is to up the standards of quality of crew and keep the ships in demand, therefore increasing prices to a point that Celebrity can be a real premium line. More ships, more training of crew is needed, more learning curve to learn new ships and gel as crew, more inconsistent service. And where to put all of these ships with the other lines adding to their fleets at such a rapid pace.

 

Hopefully, this is rumor. I would actually look forward to a 1200 pax ship or two within the next 5 years. Zenith and Horizon are fine, but the insistence on balconies may just put them out of service before it is time.

 

Reading speculation about new ships, and some excited responses, it just seems that the cruising public favors new over quality of cruise product delivery. This does not favor raising the bar of the premium cruise rung, not Celebrity raising it anyway.

[chessbriar]

I checked with friend in X, just rumors right now. Have been going on for a while with regard to Zenith and Horizon. There is talk of one new ship. That's it. Of course this is here say just like the rest. We'll see what happens

[ABSCruiseLuvers]

I will be on Zenith in two weeks and I will poke around and see what I can find out...but we have all been down this road before have we not...

[missm]

On our recent Baltic cruise (8/14-26), the Captain announced at the Captain's Club party that Celebrity would be building new ships soon. That was all he would venture to say. However, I asked the CD about specifics and he stated that they were looking at ships around the same size as the M-class ones, but with larger cabins and more balconies. He said they were in the drawing-board stage in this process. No mention of selling Horizon and Zenith.

 

MissM

[SueSea]

So far, Cruise News Daily's Guide to New Ships does not show any new Celebrity ships planned at this time. If the new ships are slated to start cruising in 2007, I would think the first would be on order now. Of course, it's possible that CND just hasn't learned about it yet.

[CruznTom]

The gossip mill is neverending!:D

 

Here's a link to reality - RCL

[tbelian]

The gossip mill is neverending!:D

 

 

Yup! You got that right.

 

Haven't seen a 'they are going to S T R E T C H the Century thread ' in a while either ..... :)

[CruznTom]

:D Let's not even get into individual rumors. I don't think I could handle the hilarity.

[jezzdogg]

Hey guys

This what I was told by 3 different sources while on the Millie cruise. The 4 ships will debut in 2007-8-9 according to what I was told and are going to be built in the same yard that built the Millennium class, he also said that Horizon was leaving the fleet first and even knew the name of the group that bought her (sorry forgot the name of the group).

As I said the plans for the larger ships are being drawn and designed with 2 beig built and an option for 2 more.

I for one hope that what I was told is true, withe Zenith and Horizon, you do not have the balconies, alternative restaurants etc that you have on the m class. Celebrity certainly needs some new ships to cover all the different iternaries she is trying to do and still have a present in the carribbean.

[CruznTom]

Jeez - I believe that you are intelligent and informed by reputable sources, but here is an example to ponder.

 

My wife and I have cruised every January ( in addition to some other cruises) since we met in 1995. We even got married mid-cruise in St Thomas in Jan 1999.

Last January, while on the Zenith, I went to book our cruise for this January (same ship, same itinerary). I was told that it could not be done, as the Zenith would be in dry dock for 5 to 6 weeks for refurbishment. I then booked the February 13th sailing instead. ( This was the cruise consultant, not a dancer)

When my wife asked the Captain at dinner, he confirmed that that was the plan.

About 4 or 5 months later, The January 16th sailing mysteriously re-appeared on the schedule after being missing for the duration - and our favorite cabins had already been booked. In fact the ship was 2/3 full! Figure that one out!

 

Bottom line is don't believe anyone or anything until it happens.:D

[BobN]

Our first cruise on the Celebrity line was on the Horizon, We had almost given up on cruising after our last lousy trip on Princess. The experience was so good that on Dec. 6th we will be taking our 9th Celebrity voyage and the 4th on Summit, We love the balcony.

[Hilary]

It'll sure be fun to watch what unfolds in regards to Horizon and Zenith. I do find it interesting that the latest "selling" rumor includes the building of four 1200 passenger ships. Since both Zenith and Horizon sail with approximately that number of passengers, it wouldn't make much financial sense to sell them and buy new ships. Can't see how even a complete refurbishment would cost as much as a new build....

 

Still looking forward to my Horizon cruise. <G>

[Bruin Steve]

I don't understand the big deal...

Cruise lines constantly build new ships and retire old ones...

Otherwise, we'd all be cruising on those turn-of-the-century ocean liners...

Of course, I don't doubt there are some here who would prefer that...

 

If the initial rumor is true and Celebrity intends to build four 1200 passenger ships and two 3000 passenger ships, I'd say it sounds like they were trying to keep everybody happy...Some folks like small ships, some like large ships...Frankly, I see a market for both and could enjoy cruising either...But it would be a departure from most other lines who only seem to build bigger every time...

 

And, I don't buy the notion of benjamins' that they'd just be churning out 4 ships at once without the trained crew to support them...First, you don't build four at once...and you do change the design ship to ship if you find improvements you can make...Second, growing the line means training more crew...and I am certain Celebrity knows how to do this as well as anyone...I do not fear any drop-off in service...

 

As to retiring the older ships...that's just a necessary fact of life...Ever have an old car you once loved? Didn't you eventually unload it? Even though you really loved that car?

 

Ships become outmoded, repair needs mount, styles and amenities change...

I loved the first ships I ever cruised...but I wouldn't want to sail them today...

 

And I was on one of the last few cruises of the Crown Princess...and my attitude was "Good Riddance!!!" Unfortunately, Princess retired her just a little too late...

 

I trust Celebrity to come up with new ships I'll really enjoy...and I will appreciate and welcome the opportunity to sail on them some day in the future...

[benjamins]

I don't understand the big deal...

Cruise lines constantly build new ships and retire old ones...

Otherwise, we'd all be cruising on those turn-of-the-century ocean liners...

Of course, I don't doubt there are some here who would prefer that....

 

Cruise lines of today do. Not so previously. Many of us fly in airplanes that are 18 years old and older, ride in trains that are 20 years in service and more, visit establishments that were erected 20-100 years or more ago. What we are calling old for ships today is absolutely ludicrous. The QE2 can handle rough seas consistently that would take most new ships out of service. This ship dates back from 1960. One of the most revered ships was the Rotterdam V, a ship built in 1959 and was in big demand for far more than 10 years and finally was put out of service a few years ago. She's so special that Holland wants to turn her into a museum. The Norway satisfied for years, yes it became old but not after 10 years. It is silly to take a ship out of service that hasn't been in service for at least 15 years, at least one that has been decently maintained. Ships should be in service 30 or so years. For some perspective, P&O cruisers love the Oriana and think it is a lovely, modern ship with timeless interior spaces. It came out in 1995. The newer Aurora isn't the same ship, just lacks something the Oriana has. Also, look at the interest in the Century. It also came out in 1995. Great products are produced because they were produced to be great, and sometimes, special products are produced, and they have appeal for decades. You don't need to replace a ship like a Century because it is a ship made to high standards. The higher the standards, the fewer that can be built. The lower the standards, the more compromises made, they'll be less special and less likely to prove themselves over time. The more the same they are, the less distinctive they are, and most new ships are just series ship, the same old thing in the same places with a few different colors and patterns here and there. Virtually undistinguishable from the other, like the Millennium ships.

 

 

And, I don't buy the notion of benjamins' that they'd just be churning out 4 ships at once without the trained crew to support them...First, you don't build four at once...and you do change the design ship to ship if you find improvements you can make...Second, growing the line means training more crew...and I am certain Celebrity knows how to do this as well as anyone...I do not fear any drop-off in service...

 

It's happened numerous times, with Celebrity and other lines. Take a look at the first reviews of the Millennium, look at the service issues. Take a look at continuing problems in service with HAL's Vista ships. Celebrity hasn't proven at all that they can grow the line as smoothly as other lines. What's the reason for new ships? New ships for newness sake? They have a fairly young line of ships, the only thing new ships will bring are more people with a "we sail any ship" attitude onto Celebrity and I think will compromise the quality, compromises which I say have happened already. Celebrity made no significant improvements to the Millie class. They are the same. They did with the Century class, especially from Century to Galaxy, and yet the Century holds a magic that's lacking in the *newer* Galaxy and Mercury. It's not newness that makes something appealing and endearing, it is what is put in that ship and how it all comes together.

 

 

 

 

As to retiring the older ships...that's just a necessary fact of life...Ever have an old car you once loved? Didn't you eventually unload it? Even though you really loved that car?

 

Ships become outmoded, repair needs mount, styles and amenities change...

I loved the first ships I ever cruised...but I wouldn't want to sail them today...

 

Celebrity has no old ships. They have middle aged ships in the Zenith and Horizon. The other ships are in no way old. Areas of ships can be refurbished and redesigned successfully. If people continue to depend on new then there's something lacking in the content of cruise ships. One should not continue to need new, expensive-to-make cruise ships to keep the experience interesting. What should be interesting is what goes on within the ship, distinguished ways of using the spaces, creatively appealing ways of defining and refining the product, not constant new ships every year. The cruise lines are absolutely ridiculous with the amount of new ships that are coming out. At one time introduction of a new ship was an event, now it's yawn, another new ship.

 

 

I trust Celebrity to come up with new ships I'll really enjoy...and I will appreciate and welcome the opportunity to sail on them some day in the future...

 

If Celebrity wants to look at replacing the Zenith and Horizon in a few years, fine. But what will distinguish Celebrity, if they choose to be distinguished, are not new ships. What will distinguish them is their making the product smarter. Increase the food budget and up the level of quality of the food, come up with new menus--we've seen the same tired menus for years, come up with new ideas about service enhancements, come up with new ideas on keeping the staff motivated.

 

The cruise public is too interested in new equipment because the cruise lines, for too long now, are just making obsolete perfectly fine ships with newer ones. This has created an expectation that cruise lines should have new ships out every year. If they don't something's wrong. Look at the high-rated Crystal. They have 3 ships. Harmony of 1990, Symphony of 1996 and Serenity of last year. They don't come up with a new ship every year yet they consistently are rated high. When Celebrity got their highest ratings it was on the Meridian, Horizon, and Zenith, not the Century ships and not the Millennium ships. Look at comments about Celebrity's food and service from the early 90s vs. now. I'm far more concerned with Celebrity staying a manageable size, staying focused and not trying to please everybody because you can't and that's a sure recipe for making a product mediocre and coming up with more peas-in-a-pod formula ships, like the Millennium ships.

[benjamins]

I would hate to see the Horizon and Zenith leave the fleet. Sure hope Horizon will be around for my cruise in Feb 05.

 

Why? I'm not disagreeing with you at all. I'd just like for you to state what it is that makes these ships appealing for those that are Zenith and Horizon fans.

[hdawson]

Bigger and newer does necessarily translate to better. Much more cozy and intimate ship. Much more likely to meet and make friends with more guests and the staff has a better opportunity to get to know the guests. The galley is preparing for 600 for each sitting rather than 950 or 1000. I've found food and service on Horizon to just be a small notch better than on the larger ships.

[hdawson]

Benjamin. As relates to vessel age, the Air Force's B52 is now being flown by the grandchildren of the original crews. Looks like it will be around till at least 2028.

[CaribbeanBound]

Interesting rumor.

 

Another thread, just posted, indicated that the Horizon is being drydocked in October. Major refurbishing: ne carpets, balconies across the Atlantic deck, Millie-class decor in all cabins, a disco, Zodiak being changed to an alternate dining location, and the possibility of a 50-foot extension to the Bridge. This info is from the CD, and other ship personel.

 

Well, maybe both are right. You can get a good 3 years out of a refurbished Horizon before the 2007 deliveries take place.