Fuel Supplement announced (4 merged threads)

[DaveFr]

[DaveFr]

[FinelyCruising]

I am not seeing anywhere in the document any discussion of cruise fares and other fees and how they are handled from the time of booking other than if you miss the ship you are not getting your money back.

 

The document outlines ability to travel, responsibility of guests, limitations for loss of baggage among other things.

 

Plus it says you can't have more than 300 lbs of luggage. :eek:

[Jade13]

 

Dave,

 

Thanks!

 

Got it and downlowded to jpeg. Basically we believe Section 21 was added on November 16,and is missing on this contract, correct?

 

It would be nice to have a cut/past of the online wording that the cruise fare will not go up, which folks have for RCCL.

 

If anyone wants to know how to save Dave's pics, right click on each one and go to "Save As" "Jpeg". You will end with 3 pictures you can label Celebrity Contract page 1, Celebrity Contract Page 2, and Celebrity Contract page 3.

[FinelyCruising]

I haven't seen the para 21 language...where can it be found???

[jaxon41]

I probably missed the answer to this in one of your earlier posts, but have you asked RCCL for an explanation of the legality of adding the surcharge in view of the above statement?

 

I have -- no response as yet.

[Jade13]

I haven't seen the para 21 language...where can it be found???

 

It's on the New Contract. Try Celebrity.com. I think you can get it without waiting until final payment?

[jaxon41]

I printed it off when I filled out the on line information, you have to check the box that you read and except the terms

It says cruise ticket contract, I printed it 11/10/2007

it has 20 parg. not 21

I see nothing about being able to add additional cost

I was able to read, view & print before final payment

I would scan and attach if I new how

Rob

 

Yesireeeesir! -- I knew someone had to have it -- thank you, Rob!!! Yes, it was my best guess that no paragraph #21 existed on that one either! Funny, because I was recollecting back to my on line check in earlier this month, and I kind of a remembered a scroll and agree, thingy. Further sort of makes my point, that it isn't until you are in cancellation period that you even have a copy of the contract -- I bet ya that is against every state's consumer laws. Jobob says there is a reference to the contact at the web site on his RCL invoice, but I just looked through mine (rcl), and it is not there.

[jaxon41]

"During online check in or during check in at the pier, passengers must agree to the terms of Celebrity's contract. I'm sure the contract that will be presented for acceptance will be the post 11/15/07 contract containing paragraph 21 which allows fuel surcharges. Paragraph 19 of both contracts is identical and says that the contract supersedes all other agreements, written or oral that relate to the subject matter (i.e., the cruise). Celebrity may say that you will not be allowed to board your ship unless you accept the post 11/15/07 contract as part of check in. Paragraph 19 of both contracts also says that waiver of any provision of the contract (i.e., paragraph 21) must be in writing and signed by Celebrity.

 

Now, I have little doubt that a policy of making passengers, who booked prior to 11/15/07, accept the terms of the post 11/15/07 contract as a condition of boarding their ship would be found to be void as against public policy if litigated in court.

 

The practical problem for passengers is that unless the Florida AG acts, a passenger who wants to go on a particular cruise and does not want to cancel will have to accept the new contract terms, pay the fuel surcharge and then litigate the issue in the Florida courts. I'm sure Celebrity is counting on the fact that most people would not go to the expense of individually litigating a maximum surcharge of $140 per stateroom in the Florida courts."

 

That's where class action suits come into play. When it is economically not realistic for an individual to sue, it becomes feasible in a class action suit, and this class would be easy to certify. Call me optimistic, but I don't think it is going to come to that.

 

I have read two articles which say -- do not pay it until you absolutely have to because an AG may overturn it (speaking of those deposited or fully paid before the 15th).

[Jade13]

Yesireeeesir! -- I knew someone had to have it -- thank you, Rob!!! Yes, it was my best guess that no paragraph #21 existed on that one either! Funny, because I was recollecting back to my on line check in earlier this month, and I kind of a remembered a scroll and agree, thingy. Further sort of makes my point, that it isn't until you are in cancellation period that you even have a copy of the contract -- I bet ya that is against every state's consumer laws. Jobob says there is a reference to the contact at the web site on his RCL invoice, but I just looked through mine (rcl), and it is not there.

 

The e-mail PDF confirmation that you get from Celebrity (prior to final payment) says to go to Celebrity.com to get the Terms and Conditions.

 

I paid on one invoice today (the one directly through Celebrity) and the new PDF confirmation e-mailed of the payment now (finally) shows the fuel surcharge due and highlighted. They went to tell me about it when I phoned (otherwise I received no information).

 

I said something to the Rep and was transfered to the Resolutions Department. They said not to listen to anything on CC because people do not know what they are talking about, no waivers are allowed after November 15 and guests will not be allowed to board the ship unless they pay the surcharge.

[Jade13]

 

I have read two articles which say -- do not pay it until you absolutely have to because an AG may overturn it (speaking of those deposited or fully paid before the 15th).

 

 

Do you have a link to the articles?

[FinelyCruising]

It's on the New Contract. Try Celebrity.com. I think you can get it without waiting until final payment?

 

Nope...did that...that portion of the website is under construction. Thanks tho...

[Jade13]

Nope...did that...that portion of the website is under construction. Thanks tho...

 

I just pulled it up. I will look for the link

 

 

"21. Carrier reserves the right to impose a supplemental charge relating to unanticipated occurrences including, but

not limited to, increases in the price of fuel. Any such supplement charges shall apply to both existing and new

bookings (regardless of whether such bookings have been paid in full)."

 

 

This was on the new docs sent to me including the link. The pdf is right there on the web.

 

"Remarks

· This booking is governed by the terms and conditions of the Cruise/Cruisetour Ticket Contract. A copy of the most current version of that contract can be viewed at

 

http://www.celebritycruises.com/CCICruiseTicketcontractpdf.

 

· For detailed information on our Vacation Protection Plan or Cancellation Policy visit www.celebrity.com."

[Jade13]

I just pulled it up. I will look for the link

 

 

"21. Carrier reserves the right to impose a supplemental charge relating to unanticipated occurrences including, but

not limited to, increases in the price of fuel. Any such supplement charges shall apply to both existing and new

bookings (regardless of whether such bookings have been paid in full)."

 

 

 

This was on the new docs sent to me including the link. The pdf is right there on the web.

 

"Remarks

· This booking is governed by the terms and conditions of the Cruise/Cruisetour Ticket Contract. A copy of the most current version of that contract can be viewed at

 

www.celebritycruises.com/CCICruiseTicketcontractpdf.

 

· For detailed information on our Vacation Protection Plan or Cancellation Policy visit <A href="http://www.celebrity.com."[/quote">www.celebrity.com."

 

Also, this was added to my invoice and in red letters:

 

 

*NOTE: FOR NORTH AMERICA RESERVATIONS, A FUEL SUPPLEMENT OF $5.00 PER DAY PER PERSON FOR THE FIRST TWO OCCUPANTS OF A

STATEROOM (SUBJECT TO A MAXIMUM OF $140 PER STATEROOM) WILL APPLY TO ALL SAILINGS DEPARTING ON OR AFTER FEBRUARY 1,

2008. UNLESS THE STATEROOM WAS PAID IN FULL BY NOVEMBER 15, 2007. WE APPRECIATE YOUR UNDERSTANDING WHILE WE UPDATE

OUR SYSTEMS TO REFLECT THE FUEL SUPPLEMENT IN OUR CONFIRMATION INVOICE. IF YOUR INVOICE DOES NOT LIST THE SUPPLEMENT,

PLEASE CONTACT THE RESERVATIONS DEPARTMENT FOR AN UPDATED INVOICE.

Payment deposit

[sunchic1]

I will be on the Celebrity Constellation 2/29/08 and just received a letter

from my TA stating that Celebrity will be charging us $5 a day each for

a fuel charge. This will be add to our finial payment. Sucks...... We booked

4 mo. ago and I thought the charge would be for new bookings;

[FinelyCruising]

Thanks Jade. I am thinking they ought to carve out potential increase items in the contract, not limited to increases in Port Charges that may have changed from the time of booking as I didn't see this in the three pages from Dave, but would really have to read it all again to specifically look for language like that.

 

As for the note in RED I think that is what wll be the waterloo for the cruiseline as it is a bit too heavy handed and is kind of a shame on them for not addressing it sooner with those who booked.

 

While I pointed out X was not including those who had paid and other lines were, they also did not provide an opportunity for those to pay in full and avoid the imposition, and that comes off as a heavy handed and uneven approach particularly because they comment on the scenario for those who did pay in full, only out of timing or sheer ignorance, certainly not proper let alone adequate notice. So it's not an unfair advantage they created, it is just an unfair approach. I'm not sure it's illegal but it is quite an example of poor form and they might have decided most would not prepay anyway to avoid the $140. but still, here's how it all ends up.

 

That the surcharge exists and is imposed as a new line item is still probably not going to change under the circumstances.

[jaxon41]

"I said something to the Rep and was transfered to the Resolutions Department. They said not to listen to anything on CC because people do not know what they are talking about, no waivers are allowed after November 15 and guests will not be allowed to board the ship unless they pay the surcharge.

 

You have to love it -- don't listen to anything on CC, not the person who said their fuel surcharge was waived when they paid on the 16th? If they want to correct our misthinking, then maybe they need to respond to those letters and emails which have been sent!

 

I am currently on hold on the phone with RCLL's credit card. Used it for the first time to book my 2009 cruise on board the beginning of this month. Not only didn't the Loyalty Ambassador book the room I requested, necessitating another call to the line, which still has not sent me an invoice reflecting my discount on a balcony, but now, on my very first bill, RCCL has charged me twice for the deposit!!! UNBELIEVABLE!!!

[jaxon41]

Do you have a link to the articles?

 

Here's one I could find, again.

 

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/fea/travel/bestfares/stories/DN-parsons_1118tra.ART.State.Edition1.3705f2a.html

 

I think the other may have come out of Houston. -- hmmm, Texans thinking alike?

[jlhc99]

OK this thread has gotten into too much legal mumbo jumbo for most of us to deal with - sometimes I truly wonder if the vacationing public is just out to complain about everything or is just truly able to go on vacation and RELAX???? Let's face, relaxation is what it is all about and who wants high blood pressure over things that no matter how much we complain about, we cannot control.

 

All that aside :) , per my previous post, I made our final payment on 11/15 with no warning of any fuel surcharge. Last weekend, I noticed X had decreased the price of our Sky Suite by $100pp for our 2/2/08 sailing on the Summit. I contacted out TA who was able to get a refund of $158 on our reservation. While this will pay for a few more martinis :) . I am now wondering if we now must pay the fuel surcharge and have sent her an email to inquire. No skin off my back as we will ultimately save a few $$ in the long run.

 

Bottom line folks, don't fret too much about what you ultimately cannot control. If you want to do so, then tell your local gas station attendant that you will not pay $3.09 a gallon today when they were charging $2.99 the day before........

[Candymanjim]

Think of the upside to your dollars, as I understand it, each stateroom that pays the fuel surcharge will get 1 article of logowear! Yippee! I will get a $120 Logo T-shirt!

 

Jim

[jaxon41]

OK this thread has gotten into too much legal mumbo jumbo for most of us to deal with - sometimes I truly wonder if the vacationing public is just out to complain about everything or is just truly able to go on vacation and RELAX???? Let's face, relaxation is what it is all about and who wants high blood pressure over things that no matter how much we complain about, we cannot control.

 

All that aside :) , per my previous post, I made our final payment on 11/15 with no warning of any fuel surcharge. Last weekend, I noticed X had decreased the price of our Sky Suite by $100pp for our 2/2/08 sailing on the Summit. I contacted out TA who was able to get a refund of $158 on our reservation. While this will pay for a few more martinis :) . I am now wondering if we now must pay the fuel surcharge and have sent her an email to inquire. No skin off my back as we will ultimately save a few $$ in the long run.

 

Bottom line folks, don't fret too much about what you ultimately cannot control. If you want to do so, then tell your local gas station attendant that you will not pay $3.09 a gallon today when they were charging $2.99 the day before........

 

 

Do you have 1.58 persons in that cabin?

[SHill64]

OK this thread has gotten into too much legal mumbo jumbo for most of us to deal with - sometimes I truly wonder if the vacationing public is just out to complain about everything or is just truly able to go on vacation and RELAX???? Let's face, relaxation is what it is all about and who wants high blood pressure over things that no matter how much we complain about, we cannot control.

 

All that aside :) , per my previous post, I made our final payment on 11/15 with no warning of any fuel surcharge. Last weekend, I noticed X had decreased the price of our Sky Suite by $100pp for our 2/2/08 sailing on the Summit. I contacted out TA who was able to get a refund of $158 on our reservation. While this will pay for a few more martinis :) . I am now wondering if we now must pay the fuel surcharge and have sent her an email to inquire. No skin off my back as we will ultimately save a few $$ in the long run.

 

Bottom line folks, don't fret too much about what you ultimately cannot control. If you want to do so, then tell your local gas station attendant that you will not pay $3.09 a gallon today when they were charging $2.99 the day before........

 

Remember, it's about principle, not about the money! :D Yea right! I applaud this post.

[Susan-M]

 

Bottom line folks, don't fret too much about what you ultimately cannot control.

 

My philosophy in life also, and I am not upset over the surcharge which seems warranted.

 

But I can also understand why people are questioning Celebrity's right to impose this surcharge for those who booked prior to November 16th, without having a provision in their contract for it, information on their website, or notice upon booking that this possibility existed. An answer from Celebrity on this would help.

[FinelyCruising]

I think when all is said and done that might be the only issue, that notice was not given to pay now and avoid the surcharge.

[Susan-M]

I think when all is said and done that might be the only issue, that notice was not given to pay now and avoid the surcharge.

 

Definitely an issue with many, but my post above was not about the issue of allowing passengers to pay up to avoid the surcharge....it was about the lack of information (in the contract, on the website, or upon booking) re fuel surcharges.