Fuel Surcharge Illegal?

[rellersi]

I couldn't agree more with your way of thinking. If they had just rasied the price of the cruise, no one would have been the wiser, and there would not have been, and continues to be, all this flack abou the surcharge :)

 

If they had raised the price of a cruise it would have had to have been $40 pp for a 7 day not the $35 they are getting from the fuel surcharge, because they pay travel agents around 15% commission by raising the cruise price they would need to pay the TAs more, to cover that the increase would have to be larger. Also if they advertised a cruise for more money there would be an entirely different group of people complaining and I am sure most of us complaining here would also be complaining because they raised prices. Weather they could legally do so the way they did it I do not know, obviously their legal department said that they could or they would not have

[VentureMan_2000]

If they had raised the price of a cruise it would have had to have been $40 pp for a 7 day not the $35 they are getting from the fuel surcharge, because they pay travel agents around 15% commission by raising the cruise price they would need to pay the TAs more, to cover that the increase would have to be larger.

 

 

Actually, no... it wouldn't cost them more in TA commisions as Carnival breaks their prices down into two categories:

 

Commisionable fares -- this is cost of the cruise itself like cabin, food, etc.

 

Non-commisionable fares -- lumped into this category are fees, taxes, surcharges, port usage fees, and a bunch of other overhead fees.

 

I would think they would place fuel surcharges into the non-commisionable fee category.

[rellersi]

I couldn't agree more with your way of thinking. If they had just rasied the price of the cruise, no one would have been the wiser, and there would not have been, and continues to be, all this flack abou the surcharge :)

 

If they had raised the price of a cruise it would have had to have been $40 pp for a 7 day not the $35 they are getting from the fuel surcharge, because they pay travel agents around 15% commission by raising the cruise price they would need to pay the TAs more, to cover that the increase would have to be larger. Also if they advertised a cruise for more money there would be an entirely different group of people complaining and I am sure most of us complaining here would also be complaining because they raised prices. Weather they could legally do so the way they did it I do not know, obviously their legal department said that they could or they would not have

[rellersi]

Actually, no... it wouldn't cost them more in TA commisions as Carnival breaks their prices down into two categories:

 

Commisionable fares -- this is cost of the cruise itself like cabin, food, etc.

 

Non-commisionable fares -- lumped into this category are fees, taxes, surcharges, port usage fees, and a bunch of other overhead fees.

 

I would think they would place fuel surcharges into the non-commisionable fee category.

 

My bad you are right, and sorry for the double post.

[sea_u_onboard]

I am one of the original posters who feel the whole way Carnival handled this surcharge leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Yeah, yeah it's only $5 per day... yah dah yah dah. It's just the way that did it - hitting not just new bookings but even those who had paid in full or deposited. It's not the surcharge - it's how it was applied.

 

For all those who feel like everyone is making a big fuss over nothing let's take this same situation and apply it to other things in life. Go to the airport (we all know airlines add surcharges - just like a dozen other service industry companies) so you go to the airport and your checking in and they tell you that there is a $20 surcharge on your ticket. According to some on this board they are just going to wipe out their wallet and hand over a Jackson without blinking an eye because we all know prices have increased and if the airline needs it - well I should just roll over and take it.

 

Personally - it's not going to stop me from cruising - I can afford the surcharge and I agree if you can't afford the surcharge you shouldn't cruise - but please don't tell me I just have to roll over and take it in the backside because the cruisline feels justified in to retroactively tacking on a surcharge.

 

If the AG determines that the practice is unsavory are any of us going to see the money back? Don't count on it - but maybe they will think twice before they arbitrarily (sp) decide they can stick it to the consumer.

[lvtotrvl1]

Actually, no... it wouldn't cost them more in TA commisions as Carnival breaks their prices down into two categories:

 

Commisionable fares -- this is cost of the cruise itself like cabin, food, etc.

 

Non-commisionable fares -- lumped into this category are fees, taxes, surcharges, port usage fees, and a bunch of other overhead fees.

 

I would think they would place fuel surcharges into the non-commisionable fee category.

 

What difference would that really make? They are breaking them out now...At least you know what you are paying for.. If they clump them in non-commissionables, they could raise it at any time, and you wouldn't even know. Now that would be a way to get this board a tlakin:)

[cruisecruisecruise1234567]

Where do you get $250,000 per day just for sailings from Florida? That would be 50,000 pax per day sailing from Florida, 350,000 per week, or over 18 million pax per year, just from Florida. There are only about 13 million pax per year cruising.

 

Just asking...

 

Your figuring it all at $5 per day,

The fuel charges are based on $3 per person per day for daily trips to the bahamas, on up to $12 per day for upper end cruise lines. Lines like NCL charge $7 per,for the 1st 2 passengers and $3 each after that. As far as the actual berths being from FL, I am a little unsure as CCL is lumping the surcharge from Alaska and CA, sailings into their figures,but they are FL based,so whether its is from FL sailings or FL based companies is unclear.

I will find out more detail on Monday.

[Cuizer2]

I am one of the original posters who feel the whole way Carnival handled this surcharge leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Yeah, yeah it's only $5 per day... yah dah yah dah. It's just the way that did it - hitting not just new bookings but even those who had paid in full or deposited. It's not the surcharge - it's how it was applied.

 

For all those who feel like everyone is making a big fuss over nothing let's take this same situation and apply it to other things in life. Go to the airport (we all know airlines add surcharges - just like a dozen other service industry companies) so you go to the airport and your checking in and they tell you that there is a $20 surcharge on your ticket. According to some on this board they are just going to wipe out their wallet and hand over a Jackson without blinking an eye because we all know prices have increased and if the airline needs it - well I should just roll over and take it.

 

Personally - it's not going to stop me from cruising - I can afford the surcharge and I agree if you can't afford the surcharge you shouldn't cruise - but please don't tell me I just have to roll over and take it in the backside because the cruisline feels justified in to retroactively tacking on a surcharge.

 

If the AG determines that the practice is unsavory are any of us going to see the money back? Don't count on it - but maybe they will think twice before they arbitrarily (sp) decide they can stick it to the consumer.

The bad taste in the mouth I can understand.

 

Big fuss - yes. Over nothing - I don't know if I would call it nothing.

 

File a complaint with the AG - fine (great even).

 

See any money back - yes, a future cruise credit of $3.50 per day (maybe :)).

 

Think twice??? - this assumes they thought once about this.

 

Even though I am one of those who paid the surcharge "without blinking an eye" ('cause my opinion was, what took them so long?) I have no problem with those who take exception to the surcharge and do something constructive (contact the AG, cancel the cruise, spend less on the cruise ...).

 

My problem is with those who either just complain (and take no positive action) or who decide to pick on innocent bystanders (reduce tips, kick the dog ...).

 

I got hit with this from both Carnival and Royal Caribbean. I just paid it and let it go at that (as I said, my opinion was, what took them so long?).

 

What I don't understand is, why is there still a fuel surcharge? Fuel is part of the cost of operating the ship (I don't see a food surcharge or a labor surcharge or a dock fee surcharge - I am sure all have gone up). The cost should just be added to the cost of the cruise plus a little extra for the agents commission. The companies know about the cost now, so just factor it in. Surcharges should be for temporary costs imposed by the government (Federal, State or local), not for and increase in the cost of supplies consumed as part of the normal operation of a business.

 

I realize that to each person, an extra $5 is not that big of a deal, but when 2000 people are contributing this small amount, it can be a big deal to Carnival ($10,000 per day per ship). All of this reminds me of the American Airlines olive story ...

 

It’s impossible to talk about cutting airline costs without mentioning Bob Crandall, the firebrand former chief of American Airlines. And so, let us revive the olive story. Most notorious among Crandall’s legendary cost-cutting was his idea to remove an olive from each salad served to passengers. A tiny garnish would never be missed, the reasoning went, and savings amounted to at least $40,000 a year.

 

So, if something as small as an olive is worth $40,000 to American Airlines, I can see where $5 per day per person could be a big deal to Carnival.

[Pitboss32]

For all those who feel like everyone is making a big fuss over nothing let's take this same situation and apply it to other things in life. Go to the airport (we all know airlines add surcharges - just like a dozen other service industry companies) so you go to the airport and your checking in and they tell you that there is a $20 surcharge on your ticket. According to some on this board they are just going to wipe out their wallet and hand over a Jackson without blinking an eye because we all know prices have increased and if the airline needs it - well I should just roll over and take it.

 

The problem with your logic above is that the cruiseline isn't asking you for more money once you get to the pier.

[cruisecruisecruise1234567]

The problem with your logic above is that the cruiseline isn't asking you for more money once you get to the pier.

 

In a way they are.

 

The airport scenario I take is to mean you are there,and if you don't pay you don't go.

 

The same with the cruise,if you don't pay you don't go. I know you will say you can cancel and get your money back. The truth is most had non refundable air tickets and if purchased insurance,those premiums are gone as well.

[Guest nhrich]

Your figuring it all at $5 per day,

The fuel charges are based on $3 per person per day for daily trips to the bahamas, on up to $12 per day for upper end cruise lines. Lines like NCL charge $7 per,for the 1st 2 passengers and $3 each after that. As far as the actual berths being from FL, I am a little unsure as CCL is lumping the surcharge from Alaska and CA, sailings into their figures,but they are FL based,so whether its is from FL sailings or FL based companies is unclear.

I will find out more detail on Monday.

 

Yeah, but the average is still probably somewhere around $5.

[Guest nhrich]

To finish what I was saying, the numbers are flawed, regardless of whether you're using FL based companies or sailings.

 

If you're using FL based companies, Holland America & Princess are based in California, not Florida. If you're using FL based sailings, there are a LOT more ports of embarkation than California & Alaska you can't use...Texas, Louisiana, Alabama, Massachusetts, New York, Hawaii...I could name others, just in the US. Then there's the embarkation ports in Europe, Asia, South America, Australia...

 

The numbers aren't going to come close, either way.

[Pitboss32]

In a way they are.

 

The airport scenario I take is to mean you are there,and if you don't pay you don't go.

 

The same with the cruise,if you don't pay you don't go. I know you will say you can cancel and get your money back. The truth is most had non refundable air tickets and if purchased insurance,those premiums are gone as well.

 

What I hate worse more than people who "know-it-all", is people who THINK they "know-it-all". I've read your numerous posts and think to myself, 'self, if ccInfinity keeps talking, eventually something intelligent SHOULD come out of their mouths' but I keep waiting for that to happen.

 

Just by you starting off with "in a way they are" automatically bumps it down to the apples to oranges logic instead of apples to apples.

 

Me thinks you inhaled too much "red tide" there in Melbourne.

[kdr69]

Got a Holland America brochure in the mail yesterday and in fine print under each cruise listed was either showing the fuel surcharge of 82.60 per guest or it showed per day of 5 something. Got to the last cruise was a 15 day cruise I believe and the fine print said 82.60 per guest, per day.:eek: Im thinking it was a typo....ummm least I hope it was a typo.:rolleyes:

[VentureMan_2000]

I am one of the original posters who feel the whole way Carnival handled this surcharge leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Yeah, yeah it's only $5 per day... yah dah yah dah. It's just the way that did it - hitting not just new bookings but even those who had paid in full or deposited. It's not the surcharge - it's how it was applied.

 

 

 

I don't understand. How much advance notice do you need...?

 

In all the carnival brochures I have dating back to 2003, they all explain very clearly that fuel surcharges are not protected by paying in full. Only the price of the cruise rate is protected.

 

Their 2003 policy on Cruise rates states that 'fully paid guests will be protected, except for fuel charges, government taxes...'

 

Carnival has clearly stated for over 4 years (probably longer) that they may impose fuel charges at any time, and that fuel charges are not price protected.

 

I personally give Carnival kudo's for eating the fuel prices for so long, that have tripled in the last couple years, and not passing on the costs.

 

Again, How much advance notice do you need...?

[sea_u_onboard]

The problem with your logic above is that the cruiseline isn't asking you for more money once you get to the pier.

Gee really - what's the difference?

[Cuizer2]

Well the Florida AG is reviewing this ...

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap_travel/20080205/ap_tr_ge/travel_brief_cruises_fuel_surcharge_1

[Cuizer2]

I pulled up my credit card statement on line today and found a mystery $35 credit from Royal Caribbean. I am checking with my agent regarding this (he will not be in until Monday), but I believe that Royal Caribbean just refunded me my fuel surcharge ...

 

[Jade13]

I pulled up my credit card statement on line today and found a mystery $35 credit from Royal Caribbean. I am checking with my agent regarding this (he will not be in until Monday), but I believe that Royal Caribbean just refunded me my fuel surcharge ...

 

 

Did you write a letter of complaint to RCCL? Do you live in Canada?

[Jade13]

double post

[Cuizer2]

Did you write a letter of complaint to RCCL? Do you live in Canada?

No, I didn't write a letter of complaint. And since the news didn't say anything about Canada invading California, I believe that Los Angeles is still part of the United States. :)

[reno3]

Well the Florida AG is reviewing this ...

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap_travel/20080205/ap_tr_ge/travel_brief_cruises_fuel_surcharge_1

 

 

I found an article that said the FL Attorney Generals office had received over 150 written complaints about the fuel charge. They are looking into it. They also had a comsumer contact form that you can download and file a complaint. I printed it out...I don't know if I will fill it out or not. I don't know if it will do any good or not:rolleyes: