Passports witheld on Carnival Destiny.

[Snoopyto]

If Carnival took the passport, it is their call. You booked via a cruise contract for passage on a vessel to go from point A to point B. The Master of the vessel has full right and authority to do as he so desires on his vessel. If he says take the passport of everyone 6' and under, then that is his choice. Your choice is simple, cruise or stay home. The Master of the vessel is responsibile for all people on his ship and including immigration and custom's clearance. Through International Law of the Sea for his purposes, he can take your passport. Is he authorized by the UK? For purposes stated, the Crown would probably agree. However, there is no master list of who can or can't have your passport.

 

CCL is not the only place that takes your passport. In Russia, Hotels will take your passport when you check in. I am sure in other countries as well, they do so in the hotels.

 

Is the US paranoid about security. Yes. However, the problem is that many passports can be faked. So where in the past taking them was not necessary, they now have immigration officers who are trained to look for counterfeit passports. Generally, this will lead to a crime, whether smuggling or terrorism.

 

Many US citizens will get further upset as the State goverments implement the REAL ID Act. The problem lies in that a US Passport can be had with a Bith Certificate, Baptisal Certificate and a few people to vouch for their identity. With a forged Birth Certificate and a few people to say who I a, could be the Pope. So the States will now require people to provide initially and every 16 years, their Birth Certificate and Social Security Card. They will check the validity,and when they renew their Driver's license, after the act is implemented. Currently in FL someone can go 24 years witout ever setting foot in a DL office. So there is a lot of room for fraud. I am sure other countries have similar issues. However people seem to forget common things, Flying, Cruising and driving are privileges. Flying and Cruise are done by private companies and they reserve the right to refuse service. It is their sand box and you go by their rules if you want to play in it. Driving, well, I am sure enough has been said in our lifetime.

[mwsrccl]

if I was the only one who had expressed concern about this Carnival contract provision (yes, I had read it) I might begin to think I was a bit off my rocker.

 

"Derbyshire born and Derbyshire bred, strong in the arm and thick in the head" is how it goes for my birthplace.

 

However, all of the UK residents I spoke to on the ship (they were doing a package which included a hotel in Barbados before and after the cruise) were saying the same thing, and two born and bred Barbadians didn't like having their UK passports taken off them. Other Barbadians seemed to accept and asked no questions. I accepted, but this does not mean I should not ask questions, certainly afterwards.

 

Many Barbadians do not like to ask questions, some still have a slave mentality, especially of the Americans, who "carry guns".

 

As a seasoned traveller I have always carried my British passport everywhere with me, and would only surrender it if I was arrested. On the Destiny I was just a happy-go-lucky traveller, not a suspected criminal.

 

I think many Americans are a little paranoid, and the reactions here to my posts seem to confirm this. 9/11 was awful, but awful things are happening all of the time, through natural evil as well as human evil. We have to pick ourselves up and get on with living, whilst we have the chance.

 

Re my other thread, but I may as well say so here, they might have had to carry me off kicking and screaming. Our waiter told us a tale that when some guests on another occasion had refused to get off, the whole ship was compounded and delayed.

 

I am not alone in this thinking, just sharing a few views I picked up on the cruise. Perhaps it is better we leave this now, and thank God that we did not meet in the whirlpool. However, I am sure you are great people, its just this anonamous forum that brings out the aggression in some of us.

 

Okay, anyone but me think that the 9/11 comments were uncalled for. The stupidity of anyone relating the posts on this board to 9/11 is horrible. Did the OP live through 9/11? Did OP lose family and friends in 9/11? Get over it?- You need to get over yourself and leave these boards....

[bunny1954]

if I was the only one who had expressed concern about this Carnival contract provision (yes, I had read it) I might begin to think I was a bit off my rocker.

 

"Derbyshire born and Derbyshire bred, strong in the arm and thick in the head" is how it goes for my birthplace.

 

However, all of the UK residents I spoke to on the ship (they were doing a package which included a hotel in Barbados before and after the cruise) were saying the same thing, and two born and bred Barbadians didn't like having their UK passports taken off them. Other Barbadians seemed to accept and asked no questions. I accepted, but this does not mean I should not ask questions, certainly afterwards.

 

Many Barbadians do not like to ask questions, some still have a slave mentality, especially of the Americans, who "carry guns".

 

As a seasoned traveller I have always carried my British passport everywhere with me, and would only surrender it if I was arrested. On the Destiny I was just a happy-go-lucky traveller, not a suspected criminal.

 

I think many Americans are a little paranoid, and the reactions here to my posts seem to confirm this. 9/11 was awful, but awful things are happening all of the time, through natural evil as well as human evil. We have to pick ourselves up and get on with living, whilst we have the chance.

 

Re my other thread, but I may as well say so here, they might have had to carry me off kicking and screaming. Our waiter told us a tale that when some guests on another occasion had refused to get off, the whole ship was compounded and delayed.

 

I am not alone in this thinking, just sharing a few views I picked up on the cruise. Perhaps it is better we leave this now, and thank God that we did not meet in the whirlpool. However, I am sure you are great people, its just this anonamous forum that brings out the aggression in some of us.

 

On every trip that I have ever made to Europe....including the UK.....I have been asked at every hotel for my passport. Some of them even kept it overnight. Yes, it is disconcerting to be in a foreign country without your passport. That is why we make a copy of the important pages and keep them with us......just in case an occasion should arise that we might need them. Since you had to go through immigration in San Juan.....a US territory......then Carnival was acting as a representative of the US government in obtaining your passport and verifying all information.

 

Have you ever traveled to Israel? If not, I don't recommend it for you. If they asked for your passport and you complained this much, you would probably be denied entry. They don't play over there.

[Cruisin' Ron VA]

Canadians are not required to surrender passports by Carnival and we are not U.S. citizens.

 

bob

 

Yes because Canadians are pretty good at GOING BACK HOME after their visit.

 

Some people would walk off the ship in San Juan (PR is a US territory for those who are not aware) or another US port and try to stay there. It's called illegal immigration. If taking your passport away will help curb the problem, I say go for it.

 

Cruiselines have long held passports for passengers. Americans also are subject to this on cruises that board in other non Caribbean ports as well. So it isnt just the United States Government picking on the foreigners.

 

Carnival is authorized by the immigration officials to collect and hold your passport. I am pretty sure they are also holding the passports of their crew as well. Again this goes back to someone wanting to bail and stay illegally.

 

A lot has to do with certain treaties between different countries as well. For a long time Americans and Canadians enjoyed free travel between our borders with no passport required. I would never have been able to fly to England and get in without a passport right?

 

 

NOW THIS IS IMPORTANT:

 

Page 6 line 2 of the United States Passport:

 

U.S. Government Property: This passport is the property of the United States Government. Upon demand made by an AUTHORIZED representative of the United States Government, it must be surrendered.

 

So there is your answer. Carnival can be appointed a representative of the United States Government.

[PaulMedik]

newbie21,

 

Notice the irony in the way you refer to Carnival cruisers as 'cattle?' I guess the Brits are 'sheep' since they surrender their passports without hesitation when they feel they don't have to. :o :D

 

The basic answer to your question is that you are entering those countries as guests of Carnival cruise lines and Carnival is responsible for making sure you are accounted for. The only way they can do that is by limiting your freedom to travel elsewhere while you are in those contries.

 

The Queen's only interest in providing you with a passport is to verify who you are upon your return and that you have a right to return. The Queen has no authority over the agencies you contract with for your travels and those agencies can simply deny your passage if you refuse to comply. Go ahead and refuse to be the sheep next time and see if you enjoy your trip. ;)

[SpacemanSpiff]

Dense that is the only word I can think of when talking to you. You really do not get it do you? How many ways or times do you need the same information given to you? The US has every right to take your Passport, end of discussion.

 

ICE not only has the right to take your passport (or authorize who does), but they have the right to take you as well:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/14/us/14visa.html?_r=1&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=all&oref=slogin

 

Seriously, Mr. Newbie, if you believe that Carnival has committed an error, please address it with Her Majesty's Embassy in whatever port you are at at the time, or with the Home Office upon your return.

 

As a common carrier departing from a US port, they are indeed authorized to see and hold your passport. For that matter, so are any airlines flying in or out of the US, though they're usually happy enough to see the passport.

[Pegs222]

OMG people give it up!! Yes they have the right to take your passport from you!!! They are authorized!!! Ok now are you happy????

 

The OP is not going to listen to any of us. He is so sure that he is right and we are wrong. One day they are not only going to take his Passport but perhaps him too and then he can really have something to b!tch about. You can only p!ss off a government for so long before they get tired of it. Rules are placed there for a reason, we do not need to know why, just that they are.

[datamood]

Quote "Rules are placed there for a reason, we do not need to know why, just that they are."

 

Really?

[LuckyStar]

Yes because Canadians are pretty good at GOING BACK HOME after their visit.

 

Some people would walk off the ship in San Juan (PR is a US territory for those who are not aware) or another US port and try to stay there. It's called illegal immigration. If taking your passport away will help curb the problem' date=' I say go for it.

 

Cruiselines have long held passports for passengers. Americans also are subject to this on cruises that board in other non Caribbean ports as well. So it isnt just the United States Government picking on the foreigners.

 

[/quote']

 

Thanks for clarifying this. I am NOT a seasoned world traveler and had no idea why one's passport would be held at all.

[LuckyStar]

The OP is not going to listen to any of us. He is so sure that he is right and we are wrong. One day they are not only going to take his Passport but perhaps him too and then he can really have something to b!tch about. You can only p!ss off a government for so long before they get tired of it. Rules are placed there for a reason, we do not need to know why, just that they are.

 

Yikes...We should all question our govt. One that is not questioned becomes Iran...

[Jolimont]

Taking away my passport or my car keys or my remote control rubs me the wrong way. BUT having survived passport deprivation last year on the Freedom, I think I'll endure it again. I get a lot more out of my Carnival cabin key than any passport ever!!!

 

Edited to say: Last week at a beach in Spain I asked at to borrow a volleyball at the bar. The man said sure but give me your passport as guarantee that I'd return. Who goes to the beach with their passport?!!! I gave him my car keys and got my ball.

[Pegs222]

Yikes...We should all question our govt. One that is not questioned becomes Iran...

 

Oh please, I was talking about the Passport requirements, chill.

[coolbasset]

The May 7 cruise, Barbados to Barbados, we were unaware that on embarkation our passports would be witheld by Destiny, returned to us after compulsory disembarkation in San Juan.

 

I joked that what if the ship sinks, I would like to have my passport on me! Seriously, I was so proud when I got my first British passport in 1962, I have carried it in my wallet ever since, using it as my ID.

 

I have read some posts in these threads, where posters would have liked to have their passport with them onshore at any port of call, especially if they miss the ship.

 

Many of us were concerned about this procedure, simply being told it's the rules, so just accept it.

 

In my current passport, note 6 says: "It should not be tampered with or passed to an unauthorised person".

 

I trust Carnival are authorised to do what they did. Any opinions anyone?

BTW, we all had a great time, and the ship did not sink!

 

In short, yes, Carnival is authorized to take your passport at embarkation. If you need to know why then you need to take that up with YOUR government. It's called research. Research doesn't mean coming here and posting a question and waiting for all of us "cattle" to do the work for you. You should be research this on your government's website, much like I did when I applied for my passport.

 

I tried to tell you in your other, equally annoying thread that your callous remarks regarding 9/11 are beyond insulting.

 

I think many Americans are a little paranoid, and the reactions here to my posts seem to confirm this. 9/11 was awful, but awful things are happening all of the time, through natural evil as well as human evil. We have to pick ourselves up and get on with living, whilst we have the chance.

 

Seriously, I'm almost at a loss for words. Americans didn't collectively fall of their bikes! I guess you had to be here to understand. Rather than try and convince you, let me just say that you are probably insulting a large group of people here. A lot of people claim that Americans are ignorant about foreign lifestyle and culture, and rightfully so. You are a perfect example of how that works both ways.

[gr1634]

Geez - welcome to the boards. I am ashamed of the people on here who took an opportunity to slam this poor poster over what seems to be a relatively simple question. If the poster was bothered by Carnival taking their passport -then they were bothered. Not any worse than some of the other "concerns" I have seen on this board. Hope you are proud of yourselves for being so "nice." Hosts should jerk your privileges. Have a nice day.

GR

[Pegs222]

Geez - welcome to the boards. I am ashamed of the people on here who took an opportunity to slam this poor poster over what seems to be a relatively simple question. If the poster was bothered by Carnival taking their passport -then they were bothered. Not any worse than some of the other "concerns" I have seen on this board. Hope you are proud of yourselves for being so "nice." Hosts should jerk your privileges. Have a nice day.

GR

 

Apparently you did not see the other thread the OP put up with the same question. He has asked the question over and over with the same answer and still refuses to understand. Until he gets the answer he wants he will continue to ask it.

 

This is from Carnival:

 

On occasion, non-U.S. citizens and U.S. Alien Residents may be asked to surrender their passport and/or Alien Resident Card at time of embarkation. These documents will be returned upon completion of the Immigration inspection at the time of debarkation. Non-U.S. citizens eligible to apply for admission under the Visa Waiver Pilot Program must still have a valid, unexpired passport. U.S. State Department regulations require all guests traveling from visa-waiver countries be in possession of a machine-readable passport that includes a biometric identifier - e.g., embedded digital photograph. Otherwise, guests will be required to obtain a U.S. Multiple Re-entry Visa. Guests without proper identification may be refused boarding or entry into the United States.

[ruskatab]

WOW I just remembered something. We were on the Destiny last week and had breakfast with 4 from England that had gotten on in Barbados. They were very interesting to talk to . Wonder if this guy was one we had breakfast with. I was not trying to flame you just stating thats the way immigration works, sorry if I offended you. Also some countries dont let you in if your passport is stamped that you visited certain countries. Ive never had my passport stamped.

[newbie21]

Not me, ruskatab, I am British but live in Barbados.

I said I would not return to this thread, but one or two seem to have read my posts and understand that I am not complaining, just finding out. This was my first cruise, but perhaps not my last. I've learnt nothing new about behaviour on Internet fora, cyberspace seems to have this effect on some people.

There seems to be some misunderstanding about my use of the word "seasoned" traveller. the nuances of the English language, I guess. I did not mean "experienced". In a Venn Diagram, we have the universal set of all travellers, and two sub-sets, seasoned and experienced. Of course there is an intersection, those who are both seasoned and experienced.

For the difference, I use the dictionary:

[URL]http://www.thefreedictionary.com/[/URL]

ex·pe·ri·enced:
1. Having had experience in an activity or in life in general: a highly experienced traveler.
To render competent through trial and experience: a lawyer who had been seasoned by years in the trial courts.

seasoned:
To accustom or inure; harden: troops who had been seasoned in combat.
To moderate; temper.
v.intr.
To become usable, competent, or tempered.

My experience in travelling extends over 50 years, but I am certainly not experienced in present day cruising, or current immigration requirements since 9/11. However, my seasoned approach got me through my first cruise, the Destiny staff were exceptional in helping me through my concerns, and I laughed and enjoyed the experience all the way. I came here for a discussion, not a fight. Sorry I upset so many of you. As some have said, chill it!

[figs]

[quote name='newbie21']the nuances of the English language, I guess. I did not mean "experienced". In a Venn Diagram, we have the universal set of all travellers, and two sub-sets, seasoned and experienced. Of course there is an intersection, those who are both seasoned and experienced.
[/quote]


I, too, useth yon amazing feat of technology, thy "Free Dictionary". Whilst in my schooling years, I learnt many ways to obfuscate my intentions.

pom·pous play_w2("P0435800") (p[IMG]http://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/obreve.gif[/IMG]m[IMG]http://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/prime.gif[/IMG]p[IMG]http://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/schwa.gif[/IMG]s) [I]adj.[/I][B]1. [/B] Characterized by excessive self-esteem or exaggerated dignity; pretentious: pompous officials who enjoy giving orders.
[B]2. [/B] Full of high-sounding phrases; bombastic: a pompous proclamation.
[B]3. [/B] Chracterized by pomp or stately display; ceremonious: a pompous occasion.

[Middle English, from Old French pompeux, from Late Latin pomp[IMG]http://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/omacr.gif[/IMG]sus, from Latin pompa, [I]pomp[/I]; see [B] pomp[/B].]

A Venn Diagram, really? You're going to bring up a Venn Diagram in a cruisecritic discussion board? This is a friendly place for advice and discussion. Instead, you insult Americans (who did you NO harm as far as I could see) and attempt to belittle us by calling us "cattle". I believe that shows more about YOUR personality than ours.

Ladies and Gentlemen, I believe we have a troll. Ignore....ON! But on the off chance that the poster is sincere---sorry, dear. Lighten up and stop criticizing the very people trying to answer your questions, and maybe everyone will "chill". Just a thought.

[dan40]

[quote name='newbie21']Not me, ruskatab, I am British but live in Barbados.

I said I would not return to this thread, but one or two seem to have read my posts and understand that I am not complaining, just finding out. This was my first cruise, but perhaps not my last. I've learnt nothing new about behaviour on Internet fora, cyberspace seems to have this effect on some people.

There seems to be some misunderstanding about my use of the word "seasoned" traveller. the nuances of the English language, I guess. I did not mean "experienced". In a Venn Diagram, we have the universal set of all travellers, and two sub-sets, seasoned and experienced. Of course there is an intersection, those who are both seasoned and experienced.

For the difference, I use the dictionary:

[URL]http://www.thefreedictionary.com/[/URL]

ex·pe·ri·enced:
1. Having had experience in an activity or in life in general: a highly experienced traveler.
To render competent through trial and experience: a lawyer who had been seasoned by years in the trial courts.

seasoned:
To accustom or inure; harden: troops who had been seasoned in combat.
To moderate; temper.
v.intr.
To become usable, competent, or tempered.

My experience in travelling extends over 50 years, but I am certainly not experienced in present day cruising, or current immigration requirements since 9/11. However, my seasoned approach got me through my first cruise, the Destiny staff were exceptional in helping me through my concerns, and I laughed and enjoyed the experience all the way. I came here for a discussion, not a fight. Sorry I upset so many of you. As some have said, chill it![/quote]

Copied from your link:

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Thesaurus[B]Legend:[/B] Synonyms Related Words Antonyms
[B]Adj.[/B][B]1.[/B][B]seasoned[/B] - aged or processed; "seasoned wood"[URL="http://www.thefreedictionary.com/unseasoned"]unseasoned[/URL] - not aged or processed; "unseasoned timber"

[B]2.[/B][B]seasoned[/B] - rendered competent through trial and experience; "a seasoned traveler"; "veteran steadiness"; "a veteran officer"[URL="http://www.thefreedictionary.com/veteran"]veteran[/URL]
[URL="http://www.thefreedictionary.com/experienced"]experienced[/URL], [URL="http://www.thefreedictionary.com/experient"]experient[/URL] - having experience; having knowledge or skill from observation or participation

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX


So did you mean you are "seasoned" but not experienced or did you mean you are "experienced" but not seasoned.
Your answer will go to my ignore list.

Dan

[aggieastrosfan]

[quote name='newbie21']i
I think many Americans are a little paranoid,...[/QUOTE]

The paranoia is not coming from the Americans...:rolleyes:

[floss]

I have taken this cruise on 2 occasions and was a bit concern with leaving my passport(british) on the first trip. It was explained to me by an officer when I asked and when I check the guidelines it was there but like the small print on some documents it was overlook in my case.

What I would explained though is the remark of having a slave mentality.

As a Barbadian who was lived in UK for 30 years .The British have a mentality too.

[newbie21]

Many thanks for your understanding of my experience, floss. I sincerely apologise for all my snide comments against you and others here, as I have already said this cyberspace thing seems to bring out the worst in some people, perhaps including myself.

However, I have not said anything here which was not said in RL during this cruise. It was said in good humour, and if anyone was upset at the time none of us communicated it at the time as none of us wanted to spoil our cruise.

I quite agree, I could list a few things about the British! For my part, its water off a duck's back, I have already run myself down as being born in Derbyshire.

The comedian in one of the shows on the Destiny cracked a few jokes against different country folk, and then he said, "I see there are a few black people here". The audience went quiet. The he said, "It's alright, I don't make jokes about black people", which made us all laugh.

I say again, once I made representations to the Destiny staff, I was given VIP treatment, for which I am most grateful. You are quite right, I did not read the small print beforehand. Who ever does? Also the responses here have taught me a lot, in lieu, I hope, of my second cruise.

[floss]

Don't worry about it my friend.
I enjoyed my stint in UK and it had broaden my life expericences. It"s fine place to live but as the saying goes "there is no place like home " hence I left before I got too old at 42

On my last trip via Royal Caribbean we sat at a table all Brits I supposed it because of my British passport that it work out that way. We have keep in touch since and I look forward to their visit to Barbados in August

After the first time it get better once you know how so now I look forward to cruising once the fuel prices stay within my pocket range.

Don't let it damper your trip . A few ships that cater for Brits can be boarded here at home so enjoy

thanks for the exchange

[sa_girl]

[quote name='irishgirl']I cruise with a girl from London every once in a while. She always has to surrender her passport and pick it up the morning of debarkation. That's partly why they are calling names in the morning you debark, either to pay up on your Sign & Sail or to pick up your passport.

[B]It's nothing new, it's been done as long as I've been cruising. Any non U.S. Citizens must surrender their passport.[/B]

Judy[/quote]


Sorry Judy that is not totally correct. Last December we sailed twice two different cruiselines and they never asked for our passport at any time. I have also travelled extensively around the world including middle east and far east and have never been asked to surrender my passport.
I am not interested in whether it is right or wrong and what is in the contract but just to point out that your sentence that "any non US Citizens must surrender their passport" is very incorrect.
Linda

[yst347]

[quote name='sa_girl']Sorry Judy that is not totally correct. Last December we sailed twice two different cruiselines and they never asked for our passport at any time. I have also travelled extensively around the world including middle east and far east and have never been asked to surrender my passport.
I am not interested in whether it is right or wrong and what is in the contract but just to point out that your sentence that "any non US Citizens must surrender their passport" is very incorrect.
Linda[/quote]

You are quite right. The Carnival web site and the cruise contract say "may be required" and it is in this light it should be viewed. The OP admits he didn't scrutinize the contract and was surprised at the request while boarding.

As an American I was surprised at the OP's attitude. This practice used to be near universal in Europe. Within the last 15 years I have been asked to surrender my passport to a lodging proprietor in Italy while touring. I have also had to surrender my passport to Saudi Arabian officials for the duration of my business trips. I had to do likewise in Indonesia when visiting on business in the early 1990's.

I can relate to the discomfort this can cause but it isn't an unusual or particularly "American" procedure. To attribute it to American paranoia as the OP has seems grossly unfair bordering on ignorance and/or arrogance.