Non-verbal child at Camp Carnival

[crusinmama06]

Chrystine, yes the 6-8 year old group is less structured. In that group, my oldest could choose to make a craft, play a game, play on the computer, OR just sit back and chat with the other kids.

 

In the 3-5 year old group they were expected to join the group, period.

 

Since I first replied earlier, I started looking into other sites and I am seeing the SAME response over and over again about RCCL and the 3-5 year old program.

 

They need to seriously make some changes to that age group. I am finding parents over and over again (some who are no stranger to cruise ships) have the same exact issue with RCCL.

 

We all can't just be imagining things. :) ;)

[isk8]

Thanks for the responses! We've been talking about changing, but both my husband and my mom really want to go on the Freedom of the Seas. If my son doesn't like AO, he just won't go. I'm sure he'll have no problem spending the sea days at the H2O Zone!

[cprofits]

Well...I have to say that the Explorer of the Seas has been the only ship where my children did not beg to stay in the kid's club. They are seasoned cruisers, 8th sailing for my 7 year old and 5th sailing for my 4 year old. My 4 year old loves everything, loves everyone and normally begs me not to pick him up. By the end of the second day, my 4 year old was dragging his feet about going to the club. By the 4th day, he completely refused to go back. I found myself talking to a lot of moms around the pool with their similarly aged kids who were having the same problem. Most of them pretty much said the same thing about their past cruise experiences so we all decided there was some unhappy stuff going on in that 3-5 year old room. I did speak to the head of AO about half way through the cruise and explained my situation and while he was sort of sympathetic to my concerns, he basically listened to me and sent me on my way. I did suggest he take a look around the ship and see his half empty 3-5 room and see lots of parents carrying their 3-5 year olds around looking anxious for a moment to lie on a deck chair and read a book...it was not just us. This didn't seem to phase him and that was that. My 7 year old was happy to go but not as eager as she usually is on other ships. When I asked the kids what the problem was (daily) I'd get a nonchalant, 'it's just not that much fun,' or 'I'll go for 45 minutes but will you promise to come check on me and see if I want to leave?' For long time cruisers, you know that is not normal behavior for kids. In the past, after a day or so of not really seeing very much of them we have to look at the daily schedule and make decisions about what's the most important activities for them to do just to keep them from trying to stay there whenever they're open. I'm not trying to scare you but I do feel this is an honest evaluation from my kids who, when they think of cruising, they think of the kids club.

[purplephenom]

Chrystine, yes the 6-8 year old group is less structured. In that group, my oldest could choose to make a craft, play a game, play on the computer, OR just sit back and chat with the other kids.

 

In the 3-5 year old group they were expected to join the group, period.

 

Since I first replied earlier, I started looking into other sites and I am seeing the SAME response over and over again about RCCL and the 3-5 year old program.

 

They need to seriously make some changes to that age group. I am finding parents over and over again (some who are no stranger to cruise ships) have the same exact issue with RCCL.

 

We all can't just be imagining things. :) ;)

 

 

Let me start by saying I'm going to talk about my experiences and obviously this probably isn't true for everyone. Also, I'm not talking about cruise experiences exactly, just some things about the different age groups.

 

I attended day camp from I was about 6 til I was about 12. Then I worked at a camp for about 4 years. Also, I went to daycare, both private and in-home. So that's where I'm coming from.

 

At day camp, the younger kids are expected to join in. When I worked at camps, it was ok to put the youngest kids in timeout for basically anything. Not joining in an activity, not properly participating in an activity, crying for too long when their parents left (because crying is "disruptive") etc. Now, it may seem like well that was just a poorly run camp. Though I noticed this at several camps, run by different groups- both private and public, even the ones with insanely long waitlists. Now, with the older kids, (over about 6 or 7) it was completely different. Kids couldn't go off on their own, because it would have been too disruptive in that setting, but if they didn't want to participate in whatever activity was going on, they were free to sit on the side of the gym/craft room and play hand games, do gimp, chat with friends, etc. Of course, being disruptive still wasn't tolerated, but there's a lot more freedom.

 

Now for the reasoning behind this. What we were told is younger kids can't always safely entertain themselves. If there are too many kids sitting on the side, there was always a chance for someone to get their hands stuck in the bleachers, wander to another activity, etc. With the older kids, they don't need constant watching, and can be more trusted to be safe.

 

Now my experiences with daycare were different. Yes, there were some structured activities, but there were more choices, and reading/napping/talking/coloring was no problem.

 

Someone posted earlier that Carnival runs more of a daycare, while RC runs more of a camp. From what I've read on these boards, that may be true, but day care doesn't have to have a negative connotation.

 

From my experiences, it seems that daycare staff is more focused on supervising the kids and then helping them have fun, while camp staff is more (not totally) focused on making sure an activity runs correctly. And an activity will run more smoothly if all the kids are participating, and the staff can focus their attentions there, rather than spliting their attention between the the kids participating, and the kids playing on their own.

 

 

Maybe this doesn't make any sense, I don't know...but it seems there are different schools of thinking on what makes for a better kids program, and neither one is clearly better- just different

[Eclipsepearl]

I think the age grouping is the problem. There is a vast difference in development between 3 and 5 years in general, not to add in individual differences. To lump them togeher and expect them to group activities together doesn't seem realistic.

 

At Celebrity, just to throw in another cruise line here, my 3 year old was fine doing other activities. It was all in a big room and they could still keep an eye on her.

 

Understanding is more important than speaking. A small child can point and lead when they need something. These counselors should be equipped to handle non-English speaking children on these cruises so non-verbal children who understand English should be able to be accomadated.

 

For the record, my oldest didn't speak until he was 2 1/2. If we had lived in the States, he would have been referred to speech therapy. He's just not a very verbal child but he was being raised bilingually and took time to absorb both languages. He also understood far more than he spoke, so this is good to point out those working in the clubs.

 

He never had any problem with daycares, babysitters, kids clubs on vacation or school. He's very social and followed directions. Heck! He didn't talk back at that age either lol! By contrast, my older girl, who is very verbal (sentences in both languages at 20 months) did terribly in those kinds of places. She only went if her brother was with her. It had nothing to do with self expression and everything to do with her HN personality.

 

There is a habit in the U.S. to blame pretty much anything and everything on a child's lack of verbal ability. I know this first hand with the whole bilingual issue. My children all spoke English from when they started to speak, but admittedly, not at the level of a child growing up in an English speaking country would. This was always tied into whatever fault by child possessed.

 

Lack of speech, as many of you know, can be the symptom of something more serious but rarely is it the cause. Circumstances, a child's personality, family situation, etc. can all play a role in whether a child talks early or late, with no actual medical condition present.

 

So in our experience, a child's ability to adapt to group situations and their language development have no relation at all. Send your silent ones to the clubs with confidence and if there is a problem, please don't assume it's langugage-based. It probably isn't.

[twins2go]

You guys have me nervous now. We are cruising NCL with our almost-3-year-olds on Sunday, and I was hoping they might enjoy a some short periods in the kids club. They both have autism diagnoses, but we are working intensely with them and I am proud of how well they are doing. The last thing I need is for some counselor to make me feel bad about the fact they currently have a hard time staying with a group activity for long. Yikes. Well, I will be prepared for the worst. Fortunately, my DH's parents are coming along, and worst case scenario we will be able to do shifts with the girls.

[isk8]

Twins,

 

I was really nervous for a few days after reading the posts, but I'm over it now. If my son doesn't like Adventure Ocean, so be it. If he gets "kicked out," so be it. We too are taking my mom and sister for extra back-up. I am only planning on putting him in AO for a few hours during the sea days. And I'm only going to send him to activities I think he will like. Before we leave, I'm going to call RCL and let them know that he is on the spectrum, and then once we get on the ship, I'll let the counselors know too. I'm also going to ask for a pager. I'm not sure if they will have one available, but I've read that they sometimes have them for parents of special needs kids (on RCL). I'm sure you can use some of the same strategies on NCL. Good Luck!

[Mammaof2girls]

Not to be a stickler...but it is dyspraxia...not apraxia. Apraxia happens to adults after a stroke.

 

Sorry, but this is incorrect. It is apraxia, and dyspraxia is a milder form of apraxia. Two neurologists, and three speech therapists diagnosed my little one with having apraxia of speech...both verbal and oral motor apraxia. My 7 yr. old nephew got diagnosed with dyspraxia which is like apraxia but much milder.

 

Anyway, on to the OP: my almost 4 yr. old daughter suffers from apraxia as well. Since she started the special ed. preschool when she turned 3, she has made huge strides in verbalizing. However, she is extremely intelligible. Poor thing gets frustrated when people can't understand her. And most of the time strangers, whether it be adults or other children, cannot and will not understand a child with apraxia...unless they have a sibling in which alot of times the sibling can sometimes make it out what they are saying. To some posters: this is alot different than just a speech delay, this is a neurological disorder that affects the execution of speech due to poor motor planning...which requires not only a ton of speech therapy but oral motor skills therapy as well with an OT or highly experienced speech therapist as well. To the OP...it will get better, little by little, all in baby steps...as I'm sure you already know. ;) We went from her saying 10-15 (if that) words last year, to her talking now!!! She can now string 4 (sometimes 5) words together. Granted, it's hard to understand her but she is certainly talking!! :) Good luck to you.

 

Just let the camp know of what she has, etc. so they are made aware. That's what I plan on doing for our first cruise next mo. And though we are not traveling on the Carnival, I felt drawn to post here because I share that connection and understand what it's like to have a child w/ apraxia. I wish you and yours the best of luck. Try to get as much speech therapy in as you can, aside from working with her at home. The more therapy they get now, it will only be that much more beneficial to them later. :)