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GrimWheel

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Anybody read The Times today ? Detail of the fate of the QE2 on page 4, so it looks official. Even the rusty decline of the United States* would have been preferable to this defilement.

 

Off with her funnel.

 

Out with her engines to make room for an entertainment complex.

 

Ditch the lifeboats.

 

Trash the interior.

 

The only way she would have been a going concern in Dubai would have been as herself, for which she is famous. As an unrecognisable hulk with glitzy rehashed interiors she will be neither hotel nor historic ship. Nobody will bother. Anybody who knows her will prefer to consider her dead, so thats another lot of non-visitors. I wish she'd been scrapped. Very very sad indeed.

 

*The ship, not the country. Though that's debatable currently it seems.;)

 

 

 

Ps can I have a few more posts on my poll pls ?(Muzak)

 

(I know I'm new here so forgive the presumption):)

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Anybody read The Times today ? Detail of the fate of the QE2 on page 4, so it looks official. Even the rusty decline of the United States* would have been preferable to this defilement.

 

Off with her funnel.

 

Out with her engines to make room for an entertainment complex.

 

Ditch the lifeboats.

 

Trash the interior.

 

The only way she would have been a going concern in Dubai would have been as herself, for which she is famous. As an unrecognisable hulk with glitzy rehashed interiors she will be neither hotel nor historic ship. Nobody will bother. Anybody who knows her will prefer to consider her dead, so thats another lot of non-visitors. I wish she'd been scrapped. Very very sad indeed.

 

*The ship, not the country. Though that's debatable currently it seems.;)

 

 

 

Ps can I have a few more posts on my poll pls ?(Muzak)

 

(I know I'm new here so forgive the presumption):)

 

Or, wouldn't it have been very nice, had her final resting place been at the bottom of the sea, much like the fate of a ship ,the Britanis, that was my first cruise. The Britanis was on her way to a scrap heap and sank, instead. It almost seemed that was what the QE2 wanted yesterday as she went aground.

 

Do they have no sense of history?:confused:

 

And new is nice!!!:)

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Anybody read The Times today ? Detail of the fate of the QE2 on page 4, so it looks official. Even the rusty decline of the United States* would have been preferable to this defilement.

 

Off with her funnel.

 

Out with her engines to make room for an entertainment complex.

 

Ditch the lifeboats.

 

Trash the interior.

 

The only way she would have been a going concern in Dubai would have been as herself, for which she is famous. As an unrecognisable hulk with glitzy rehashed interiors she will be neither hotel nor historic ship. Nobody will bother. Anybody who knows her will prefer to consider her dead, so thats another lot of non-visitors. I wish she'd been scrapped. Very very sad indeed.

 

*The ship, not the country. Though that's debatable currently it seems.;)

 

 

 

Ps can I have a few more posts on my poll pls ?(Muzak)

 

(I know I'm new here so forgive the presumption):)

 

 

GrimWheel,

 

Do you have any idea when the QE2 is arriving in Dubai?

 

Gail

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I like your username - Grim Wheel. I wonder how many out there know what that is...

 

Anyway, I whole heartedly agree with your post. As part of my day of "mourning" and celebration yesterday I watched the National Geographic Special: "Superliner, Twilight of an Era". I was onboard QE2 a few weeks before that was filmed in 1979 so I treasure that documentary as it visually preserves the memory I have of QE2. As I watched it, I thought that although QE2 has gracefully transformed from a two-class trans-Atlantic liner to full time one-class cruise ship, she is truly the last of her kind. In my opinion, the essence of her trans-Atlantic liner traditions has been absent for a long time although the memory of it has been nicely preserved.

 

What I mean by this is that QE2 was built and operated in her early years during a time much different than today. Watch this video (http://www.stv.tv/content/news/features/scotlandyesterday/ - click on "Contract 736, launch of the QE2) but don't be short-sighted and turned off by the male chauvinism and other things that are counter to today's PC standards. Watch it in the context of the long, proud tradition of Scottish shipbuilding on the River Clyde and what this liner was becoming - the next generation in an esteemed line of ships and the pride of a nation. It was a time when a job was more than just a paycheck; when pride in workmanship was very much alive. The soul of QE2 is these men that built her and the crew of her early years that had direct ties with 100 years of trans-Atlantic service traditions and operated her accordingly.

 

Her early crew was made up of folks who had strong ties to the golden age of the trans-Atlantic liners. Those that served during the post-WW2 heydays and those serving on merchant ships during WW2. There was certainly a definite tone and demeanor in the crew back then that is not there now.

 

Don't get me wrong, QE2 retains her elegance to the end and her gutting in Dubai is a travesty. The problem I have is that while the presence of the true trans-Atlantic era departed long ago, it was a gradual and relatively unnoticed process and the spirit remained. The crime in Dubai is that now the physical reminder of that age is about to abruptly and sadly pass with a remodeling that will remove all of what I have described above. QE2 is truly the last of her kind and should be kept as a reminder to all of what she stands for. In today's world I guess money speaks louder than preserving history. I don't think that QE2 would have any problem filling her staterooms (port holed that is - insides could be remodeled) and public rooms in their current configuration as a hotel/museum/conference center in England. Learn from the mistakes of Queen Mary which could have and should have been managed and done so much better.

 

Is this fate better than Alang? Yes but only because there remains the possibility that someday she could be returned and restored to her former splendor as a proper tribute to her history and traditions in her homeland.

 

Anyone up for starting a rescue the QE2 Campaign?

 

 

 

 

Without knowing where you came from, you will have no idea where you are going.

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I like your username - Grim Wheel. I wonder how many out there know what that is....

At least we are three and it seems a topic like this is just for engineers as I'm one.

Sadly the grim wheels on QE2 came off in silence during the first TA after fitted with this invention.

 

All the best from

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Hey stop stealing giant photos of QE2 from my website! :D

 

I am proud to say I was on board when the Grim Wheels were still fitted, and she achieved 35 knots.

 

I was also interviewed (and mentioned!) in that Times article, which came out better than I thought it would - and its about time such an article was written. Why Britain is letting its flagship go without a fuss is beyond me. I still don't know how much, if any, of it is "fact" though?

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Off with her funnel.

 

Out with her engines to make room for an entertainment complex.

 

Ditch the lifeboats.

 

Trash the interior.

 

 

I agree with you, after all,

 

it's the original funnel... um,

ok then it's her original engines... ah,

ok, they are all original lifeboats... ummm,

well at least the interior is original and 60's stylish... oh.

 

So preserving the new or add-on or redecorated bits makes a lot of sense!

 

I had hoped they might have learnt from the mistakes made when QM retired, but obviuosly not. She will be barely recognisable in a couple of years. Great pity. But, when you sold your last car on did you tell the new owners what they could and couldn't do with it? QE2 has been sold after a VERY long and eventful life (not all of it great despite people only selectively looking at the good bits). We all had 40 years to enjoy her. If we spent our money elsewhere and missed the chance to sail on her, that was our choice. The superstucture is cracked and patched and coming to the end of its safe life. It's time she retired.

 

She will no longer need engines and they are not historic turbines so take them out, they are not a tourist attraction. To get them out, one way is straight up. So the funnel must go. They then build a replica to replace this '80's replacement funnel. So what. The funnels on QM are not the originals. In fact, with a new "funnel" QE2 can lay claim to being a three funnel liner! :D Several, if not all, of the lifeboats have been replaced over the years. As a hotel she has no need for lifeboats. If they are replaced by balcony cabins the revenue generated could ensure her survival. As for the interiors, the lower decks are an unsafe warren of dead end passageways with state cupboards off of them. So they must go as they are a fire risk. And can you imagine customers, used to well laid out hotels and modern cruise ships, trying to come to terms with lifts that don't reach every floor? Or staircases that by-pass the restaurant you're trying to reach? Or (in the case of the stairs down to the interior pool) an access that can only be found on one side of the hotel and remains invisable and unfound if you walk along the wrong side? As for the public rooms, not one is in original condition (the theatre and synagogue come closest). The trumpet pillars in the Queens Room are original but nothing else. And some of the other rooms are hideous, the Chart Room, Golden Lion and Lido are the worst offenders. And the Grand "show" Lounge has a shopping centre on its balcony!

 

So, yes, I am sorry to see her go (I had a great time on board her and was very sad in Southampton during the firework display, but, as she disappeared into the smoke they caused, I realised that the fireworks were celebrating her life and so I smiled). She was simply the best looking and most beautiful passenger ship that I've ever seen. But she is very, very old. She's had a hard life. She's had countless millions spent on her and millions of passengers can, like me, look back and remember her in her prime, as she was then, not as she is now at the end of her life. Time to let her go and move on.

 

The queen is dead, long live the queen.

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The 1987 funnel was in fact the original funnel, modified. You can still se the warped steel from a 1970s engine room fire on it.

 

Huge numbers of cabins are almost completely original, as well as stairwells, corridors etc. Many of the rooms, although remodelled, are in their original location and its just the decor that has changed. The Queens room has the same roof, pillars, lowered dance floor, raised seating areas - its all original, except the decor and furniture. The general layout of most of the ship is almost entirely original...

 

I quote Ian McNaught in this month's Ships Monthly - "This ship has a sense of purpose and is in very good shape."

 

I dread to think what would have happened to the Queen Mary if Long Beach hadn't run out of money!!!

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RAL 72:

 

Two things come to mind. I think Long Beach always realized the charm of the 1930's deco. ( also it was built of a very high standard and the Q.M. was much more orginal in 1967 than QE2 is today). Also much of the QM has a granduer that the more compact QE2 never did. For example the 2 and three deck high public rooms.

 

Actually Disney could have been more dangerous to the ship in the late 80s if they wanted to.

 

It is very sad to think of the orginal suites and public rooms going. Also there is much cool exteriors left that I hate to see go on QE2. Also QE2 is loaded with Asbestos to a much greater degree than the QM was. Perhaps these needed to be gutted for that reason? The old S.S. Rotterdam has practically been 100 % rebuilt, because of Asbestos.

 

Tom in Long Beach

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I like your username - Grim Wheel. I wonder how many out there know what that is...

 

Anyway, I whole heartedly agree with your post. As part of my day of "mourning" and celebration yesterday I watched the National Geographic Special: "Superliner, Twilight of an Era". I was onboard QE2 a few weeks before that was filmed in 1979 so I treasure that documentary as it visually preserves the memory I have of QE2. As I watched it, I thought that although QE2 has gracefully transformed from a two-class trans-Atlantic liner to full time one-class cruise ship, she is truly the last of her kind. In my opinion, the essence of her trans-Atlantic liner traditions has been absent for a long time although the memory of it has been nicely preserved.

 

What I mean by this is that QE2 was built and operated in her early years during a time much different than today. Watch this video (http://www.stv.tv/content/news/features/scotlandyesterday/ - click on "Contract 736, launch of the QE2) but don't be short-sighted and turned off by the male chauvinism and other things that are counter to today's PC standards. Watch it in the context of the long, proud tradition of Scottish shipbuilding on the River Clyde and what this liner was becoming - the next generation in an esteemed line of ships and the pride of a nation. It was a time when a job was more than just a paycheck; when pride in workmanship was very much alive. The soul of QE2 is these men that built her and the crew of her early years that had direct ties with 100 years of trans-Atlantic service traditions and operated her accordingly.

 

Her early crew was made up of folks who had strong ties to the golden age of the trans-Atlantic liners. Those that served during the post-WW2 heydays and those serving on merchant ships during WW2. There was certainly a definite tone and demeanor in the crew back then that is not there now.

 

Don't get me wrong, QE2 retains her elegance to the end and her gutting in Dubai is a travesty. The problem I have is that while the presence of the true trans-Atlantic era departed long ago, it was a gradual and relatively unnoticed process and the spirit remained. The crime in Dubai is that now the physical reminder of that age is about to abruptly and sadly pass with a remodeling that will remove all of what I have described above. QE2 is truly the last of her kind and should be kept as a reminder to all of what she stands for. In today's world I guess money speaks louder than preserving history. I don't think that QE2 would have any problem filling her staterooms (port holed that is - insides could be remodeled) and public rooms in their current configuration as a hotel/museum/conference center in England. Learn from the mistakes of Queen Mary which could have and should have been managed and done so much better.

 

Is this fate better than Alang? Yes but only because there remains the possibility that someday she could be returned and restored to her former splendor as a proper tribute to her history and traditions in her homeland.

 

Anyone up for starting a rescue the QE2 Campaign?

 

 

 

 

Without knowing where you came from, you will have no idea where you are going.

 

 

Thank you, reltco, for providing us with that wonderful video. It shows good insight into the lives of the men who built the ships, and what they were like. Also it shows how much real skill and labaor went into the building of the QE2. Excellent!!!:)

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Remember the Queen Elizabeth in Hong Kong, what about the Oriana, both perfect disasters at making once beautiful ships into floating wrecks.

 

Without going into too much detail, as a consortium we were working on the idea of the puchase of the QE2 a while before it was offered for sale. We had a location that was superb, a sense of history that worked, and good plans to retire QE2 correctly. That is leaving the exterior of the ship looking almost completely intact. Even an entrance that let you leave your current location and arrive as if you were geting on board for a luxury cruise. We were expecting the sale to be anounced.

 

The main problem was getting enough funding as we knew we would need around $25m US to purchase and more for the renovations etc. (this seemed to be about the going purchase price at the time). It seemed when it came to the crunch, that the banks and investors etc. did not believe in this as they all pointed to the Queen Mary debacle.

 

The only way to do this was having someone wealthy enough to fund the whole project.

 

We knew that certain inside areas of the ship would need complete remodeling, and had architects work on the initial ideas. But the main idea was to PRESERVE as much as possible of the original structure. Even though just like before, the grandur would be kept in line with the ship.

 

A lot of energy, time and money went into this, but as time dragged on enthusiasm in some areas waned. Then we find out Mikey sold it to Dubai for $100M. Wow, even he said he didn't expect that. What a price!

 

So to do a rescue of QE2 is beyond imagination and beyond money.

 

The only thing to do is to lobby the new owners, in a very big way to make them see some sense in preserving the QE2 as the QE2 and not some garish %%#ed up sideshow.

 

People tried to save the Blue Lady, it did not happen.

 

I have no intention ever of going to Dubai, as to see this travesty would be too much to bare...

 

Sorry for that but what can we do?:mad:

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Remember the Queen Elizabeth in Hong Kong, what about the Oriana, both perfect disasters at making once beautiful ships into floating wrecks.

 

Without going into too much detail, as a consortium we were working on the idea of the puchase of the QE2 a while before it was offered for sale. We had a location that was superb, a sense of history that worked, and good plans to retire QE2 correctly. That is leaving the exterior of the ship looking almost completely intact. Even an entrance that let you leave your current location and arrive as if you were geting on board for a luxury cruise. We were expecting the sale to be anounced.

 

The main problem was getting enough funding as we knew we would need around $25m US to purchase and more for the renovations etc. (this seemed to be about the going purchase price at the time). It seemed when it came to the crunch, that the banks and investors etc. did not believe in this as they all pointed to the Queen Mary debacle.

 

The only way to do this was having someone wealthy enough to fund the whole project.

 

We knew that certain inside areas of the ship would need complete remodeling, and had architects work on the initial ideas. But the main idea was to PRESERVE as much as possible of the original structure. Even though just like before, the grandur would be kept in line with the ship.

 

A lot of energy, time and money went into this, but as time dragged on enthusiasm in some areas waned. Then we find out Mikey sold it to Dubai for $100M. Wow, even he said he didn't expect that. What a price!

 

So to do a rescue of QE2 is beyond imagination and beyond money.

 

The only thing to do is to lobby the new owners, in a very big way to make them see some sense in preserving the QE2 as the QE2 and not some garish %%#ed up sideshow.

 

People tried to save the Blue Lady, it did not happen.

 

I have no intention ever of going to Dubai, as to see this travesty would be too much to bare...

 

Sorry for that but what can we do?:mad:

 

 

My theory is that QE2 will eventually become more of a nuissance once the novelty wears off. She will be shell of her former self but there will always be plenty of corporate knowledge of of how she looked and should look. My hail Mary hope is that we can get her second hand from Dubai for a cheap price if there is no backdoor deal to scrap her. Of course there is the towing and refurbishment costs...who knows how much that would be. Just a pipe dream at this point

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So, yes, I am sorry to see her go . But she is very, very old. She's had a hard life. She's had countless millions spent on her and millions of passengers can, like me, look back and remember her in her prime, as she was then, not as she is now at the end of her life. Time to let her go and move on.

 

 

AT last, amid all the sentimental sobbing, the voice of reason. Thankyou pepperrn.

The QE2 will cease to be in a couple of weeks. No matter how much the Emeratis preserve or restore or what they choose to call their new hotel it will not be, it cannot be the QE2. The QE2 is (nearly said 'was' then) an ocean going vessel, not an hotel. The boat is gone folks, gone, gone, gone. Get over it. We've all had good times. We've been the ones lucky enough to have been able to afford to travel on it. All this breast-beating is pure unadulterated, self-indulgent, mawkish sentimentality. |It's a kind of 'whose best' about who is the most upset. All this , final this and final that, is getting boring and repetetive.

QE2 R.I.P. For goodness sake.

Gari

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AT last, amid all the sentimental sobbing, the voice of reason. Thankyou pepperrn.

The QE2 will cease to be in a couple of weeks. No matter how much the Emeratis preserve or restore or what they choose to call their new hotel it will not be, it cannot be the QE2. The QE2 is (nearly said 'was' then) an ocean going vessel, not an hotel. The boat is gone folks, gone, gone, gone. Get over it. We've all had good times. We've been the ones lucky enough to have been able to afford to travel on it. All this breast-beating is pure unadulterated, self-indulgent, mawkish sentimentality. |It's a kind of 'whose best' about who is the most upset. All this , final this and final that, is getting boring and repetetive.

QE2 R.I.P. For goodness sake.

Gari

 

Gari

God help me but I totally agree with you

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What happened to Oriana?

 

From 1973 Oriana was converted to operate as a cruise ship and from 1981 until retirement in March 1986 was based in Sydney. After a layup of two months, the ship was sold and moved to Osaka to become a floating hotel. This venture was ultimately not very successful, and she was subsequently sold to Chinese interests in 1995. The ship again served as a floating hotel and tourist attraction in Shanghai until 2002, when she was moved to Dalian. In 2004 Oriana was damaged in a storm; repairs proved to be unfeasible and she was towed to a ship breakers yard and dismantled in 2005.

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I think a rescue is probably pie-in-the-sky stuff at this point, but it does make sense to try to persuade the new owners that she would be more valuable to them if preserved as much as possible (don't tell me that nonsense about telling the new owners of my car what they can or can't do with it; QE2 is hardly an old Chevy. So much of her appeal and indeed value has to be in her history and present appearance). If it were possible to get enough people interested, specifically someone who knows his/her way around the subject of publicity, that might be the best hope. Any ideas, anyone? The asbestos is being removed. I'm not so sure about the engines, as there IS still fairly credible talk about taking her out once in a while - though that too seems a bit far-fetched, bearing in mind the engines would need constant maintenance, I would have thought. But there is a press release from the new owners currently circulating, showing her at the base of her "palm tree", looking very much as she does now, funnel included. So perhaps there is hope. Surely they can't have spent all that money on this ship, only to change her out of all recognition? Where's the sense in that?

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Seachase, the engines have already been sold so the occasional going out is a pipedream. Do you think that the Arabs would have spent so many of your gas dollars on the ship to treat her in any way other than a commercially smart way. Whatever they choose to do , I am sure (ish) that the result will be far better than that experienced by the Queen Mary.

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AT last, amid all the sentimental sobbing, the voice of reason. Thankyou pepperrn.

The QE2 will cease to be in a couple of weeks. No matter how much the Emeratis preserve or restore or what they choose to call their new hotel it will not be, it cannot be the QE2. The QE2 is (nearly said 'was' then) an ocean going vessel, not an hotel. The boat is gone folks, gone, gone, gone. Get over it. We've all had good times. We've been the ones lucky enough to have been able to afford to travel on it. All this breast-beating is pure unadulterated, self-indulgent, mawkish sentimentality. |It's a kind of 'whose best' about who is the most upset. All this , final this and final that, is getting boring and repetetive.

QE2 R.I.P. For goodness sake.

Gari

AT last, amid all the sentimental sobbing, the voice of reason. Thankyou pepperrn.

The QE2 will cease to be in a couple of weeks. No matter how much the Emeratis preserve or restore or what they choose to call their new hotel it will not be, it cannot be the QE2. The QE2 is (nearly said 'was' then) an ocean going vessel, not an hotel. The boat is gone folks, gone, gone, gone. Get over it. We've all had good times. We've been the ones lucky enough to have been able to afford to travel on it. All this breast-beating is pure unadulterated, self-indulgent, mawkish sentimentality. |It's a kind of 'whose best' about who is the most upset. All this , final this and final that, is getting boring and repetetive.

QE2 R.I.P. For goodness sake.

Gari

 

I do see your point. The "last voyage" etc stuff is a bit mawkish and parochial, personal only to those that have travelled on her and can no longer. But I think there is a wider perspective to be had. There are just three ships of her kind left anywhere in the world. Ships of historical merit. The Rotterdam, the United States, and the Queen Mary. Possibly the US is beyond saving, she's been rusting for years and I think her inside is gutted, not sure. All credit to the Danes for saving the Rotterdam. The QM is in the wrong place of course, a location with no transatlantic liner resonance. She should be in New York. It's possible present day people do not appreciate the need for preservation. Consider the Great Britain. How fantastic she is still with us, against all odds - Beached unloved on a distant shore to rot.

 

QE2 is a Ship Of State. She personifies Great Britain. She went to war for us. She carries a Monarch's name (yes, I know, another ship's name), the world's most famous ship. A surviving link to the great liners. If she were a hotel, interiors like the Queen's Room would probably have a preservation order slapped on them by now. What is bothersome is that we seem to have so little regard for our own national heritage when it comes to ships. She deserves retirement and preservation in the UK, not for her (she is, after all, just a big piece of steel), but for the present and future people of the UK, for the sake of national pride. It is the offense against this that really rankles when one reads of her future defilement in Dubai. And what a place for her to go. I hope she sinks on the way (without loss of life).

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I do see your point. The "last voyage" etc stuff is a bit mawkish and parochial, personal only to those that have travelled on her and can no longer. But I think there is a wider perspective to be had. There are just three ships of her kind left anywhere in the world. Ships of historical merit. The Rotterdam, the United States, and the Queen Mary. Possibly the US is beyond saving, she's been rusting for years and I think her inside is gutted, not sure. All credit to the Danes for saving the Rotterdam. The QM is in the wrong place of course, a location with no transatlantic liner resonance. She should be in New York. It's possible present day people do not appreciate the need for preservation. Consider the Great Britain. How fantastic she is still with us, against all odds - Beached unloved on a distant shore to rot.

 

QE2 is a Ship Of State. She personifies Great Britain. She went to war for us. She carries a Monarch's name (yes, I know, another ship's name), the world's most famous ship. A surviving link to the great liners. If she were a hotel, interiors like the Queen's Room would probably have a preservation order slapped on them by now. What is bothersome is that we seem to have so little regard for our own national heritage when it comes to ships. She deserves retirement and preservation in the UK, not for her (she is, after all, just a big piece of steel), but for the present and future people of the UK, for the sake of national pride. It is the offense against this that really rankles when one reads of her future defilement in Dubai. And what a place for her to go. I hope she sinks on the way (without loss of life).

 

I mentioned my first cruise was on the SS Britanis. She had been built in the US as a luxury liner and christened the SS Monterey. She too had been a war hero during WWII. After that she changed hands several times, and even was considered for a hotel in San Francisco, but finally was on her way to a scrap heap in India when she finally, suddenly sank.

When I read about this, I realized that this was absolutely the best ending for an American hero. Her last name was Belofin 1 at her end.

 

I agree, the same fate would be best for such a British icon, as well.

 

 

 

UPDATE: BELOFIN-1 sank off South Africa while under tow by the Ukrainian tug IRIBIS on 21 October, 2000. britanislifeboat2.jpg

Photo and copyright Richard Kehl 2002.

On 24 August, 2002, a section of Number 8 lifeboat was located on the beach along the western Skeleton Coast of Namibia one hour north of Cape Cross in an important discovery documented and shared with Maritime Matters by German-based visitor Richard Kehl.

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She went to war for us. quote]

 

There will be no meeting of minds on the subject of this damn boat I'm quite sure. And everyone will think what everyone will think. But the above quoted statement is patently ludicrous.

'She' did not 'Go To War' for us.

 

Notwithstanding the frequent use of the feminine pronoun, a nautical custom worked to death on this subject, IT IS NOT AN ANIMATE BEING! IT DID NOT HAVE FREE CHOICE. IT IS AN OBJECT. I do not know for an absolute fact, no doubt some trainspotter will tell me, but I would imagine that IT was chartered to serve as a troop transport. Bought and paid for!

Gari

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