Hijack

[Rum Rat]

A VERY large Oil Tanker.

 

How long before a cruise ship?

 

I see the Oil Tanker companies are now missing out the Gulf of Aden. Arcadia goes through there in January!!!

 

Summer in the sun?

 

Mike

[MattyBarlow]

It's almost happened already

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/4409662.stm

[tom_uk]

The Royal Navy has some ships in the area, so it wouldn't surprise me too much if Aurora, Arcadia (on return), or any of the Cunarders, had a discreet escort from a RN frigate.

 

Speed might also be a factor. I don't know how fast that big tanker was going, but I would imagine that Aurora et al would be at full speed through hazardous waters.

[AbbyCruise]

The Seabourn vessels are much smaller than those of P&O.

 

Pirates would not want to risk boarding a ship with 3000+ people (crew and passengers). That is a lot of risk for not a lot of return.

[Rum Rat]

The Seabourn vessels are much smaller than those of P&O.

 

Pirates would not want to risk boarding a ship with 3000+ people (crew and passengers). That is a lot of risk for not a lot of return.

 

?????????

 

Not a lot of return?

 

No one would bother with a ransom then?

 

What world do you live in?

[Gerrym]

?????????

 

Not a lot of return?

 

No one would bother with a ransom then?

 

What world do you live in?

 

 

Mike, I hope you don't mind me saying, but your reply is a bit harsh!

 

It's only an opinion that I assume does not align itself with yours!

[Rum Rat]

Which has more 'bargaining power'?

 

A tanker full of oil? (Think Torrey Canyon, Pacific Glory. Cargo lost. No bargaining power there)

 

A cruise ship with 2500 INTERNATIONAL people on it.

 

Which would you rather say 'NO. Not bargaining', to?

 

Think. Think VERY hard.

 

Kindest regards

[AbbyCruise]

?????????

 

Not a lot of return?

 

No one would bother with a ransom then?

 

What world do you live in?

 

 

Oh dear. I should have explained further.

 

A lot of risk for not a lot of return.

 

The first part - risk - a ship full of international passengers and crew is a greater risk to pirates. More people = harder to control. The full force of multiple governments during the hostage situation and afterwards, should the pirates escape. It would be very difficult to disapear after that.

 

The return - what can you ransom a cruise ship (and passengers) for? It has to be an amount that can be pulled together and paid reasonably quickly. A billion dollars - unlikely to get away with that. Even a hundred million ransom would be difficult to pull off.

 

Is ransoming a cruise ship worth the risks and consequences? Not really. Not when you consider that there are *comparatively* softer targets sailing through the same waters such as tankers. That is 20 million (the figure currently being bandied about) for a much easier job. Easier to pull off and easier to escape from.

 

I think cruise ships the size of P&O are unlikely targets.

[gstewart]

QE2 will pass through there shortly on her way to Dubai. What a prize she would be for these Pirates. I sincerely hope not though!

[Rum Rat]

"" I think cruise ships the size of P&O are unlikely targets.""

 

 

...... as are huge super tankers full of oil.

 

Tick tock tick tock

[tom_uk]

"" I think cruise ships the size of P&O are unlikely targets.""

 

 

...... as are huge super tankers full of oil.

 

Tick tock tick tock

 

No, I think Abby's right, for the reasons she gives. The pirates are interested in a) the money, and b) keeping their liberty. Hijacking the occasional tanker is the way to do that - no-one gets hurt, it's just oil and money. In fact, think of it this way: hijacking an oil tanker is piracy; hijacking a passenger liner is terrorism, and produces a quite different response from the world.

 

Hijacking a passenger ship would bring about a world of grief for the pirates, for a very long time. It would trigger a very visceral response in people in any affected nation, and that would impel government(s) to do something serious. And the results just don't go away. Passenger Leon Klinghoffer was killed on board the Achille Lauro in 1985 during the hi-jacking of that ship, and the outcomes of that - criminal prosecutions for murder, civil suits for damages, etc - still reverberate. The PLO had to make a settlement with Mr Klinghoffer's family, for example. Which is mind-boggling, really - I didn't think you could sue the PLO! Whereas selling a shipload of crude - that's do-able, and furthermore becomes very difficult to trace because of its fungibility. Or of course the pirates just accept a $20m payment from a middle-east government and hand back their ship and their oil.

 

That's not to say that it couldn't happen, but I think it's very unlikely.

[Rum Rat]

"" That's not to say that it couldn't happen, but I think it's very unlikely.""

 

tick tock tick tock

[capnpugwash]

"" I think cruise ships the size of P&O are unlikely targets.""

 

 

...... as are huge super tankers full of oil.

 

Tick tock tick tock

 

During the Lifeboat Briefing you may remember that the Captain tells everyone that the ship is equipped to deal with security situations that may arise and that they will be dealt with to the full force of the Law. Cruise ships are not a soft target and as previously stated 3500 people take a lot of controlling. The crew, or at least a large contingent will be armed and they wont have too much difficulty identifying the Somali Pirates. VLCC is a totally different matter with just 25 souls on board. I know where I would rather be and it doesn't smell of oil. :D

[tom_uk]

"" That's not to say that it couldn't happen, but I think it's very unlikely.""

 

tick tock tick tock

 

And tick tock tick tock to you.

 

In your first you said:

"How long before a cruise chip?".

 

So tell us - how long do you think? With what probablility? Over what period?

 

Put up or shut up.

[Druke I]

AP is reporting that an Indian Navy warship has sunk a pirate "mother" ship.

 

Several navies have warships on anti-piracy patrol in the Gulf of Aden and along the coast of Somalia.

[Rum Rat]

"" So tell us - how long do you think? With what probablility?""

 

If my mind worked in the way of the Pirates I could answer the first bit. The second bit ........ 100%

 

""Over what period?""

 

See the first part of my answer above

 

""Put up or shut up.""

 

It would seem you feel I have inside information.

Wrong

[bahrain_not_dubai!]

A couple of years back I was taking a cruise on a ship schedualed to go through the Gulf of Aden two cruises after I disembarked. I aksed the Captain if there are any extra security, weapons, etc. for the passage and he said they have about 2 pistols onbaord. This on a ship with 3000 people! Appaling. Also the Seabourn Spirit is a much easier ship to hijack than the P&O liners- first of all they have about 350 people onbaord including crew. Imagine this 20 or so pirates trying to manhandle 3000 people? even with their weapons they could be overpowerd.

[Rum Rat]

So you are saying that a hijack of a cruise ship, of say a couple of thousand people, is NOT going to happen?

 

:-((

 

tick tock tick tock

 

"There are none so blind as those who do not wish to see"

 

Kindest regards

 

Mike

[Host Walt]

Please try to restrict your posts to the topic and avoid disparagement of your fellow Cruise Critic members.

 

Thanks.

[seattlelover]

Please try to restrict your posts to the topic and avoid disparagement of your fellow Cruise Critic members.

 

Thanks.

 

Fair comment Host - I see a reply of my mine has been pulled. But that should apply to all threads surely? There is another thread which has gone 'off topic' near this one and the replies remain. :confused:

[bahrain_not_dubai!]

Earilier this year one of the small ships for the ultra luxury Croisieres Cie des iles du Ponat (Ponat Cruises) where captured in the Gulf of Aden. However unfortunatly for the pirates there where no passengers onbard at the time as the ship was on a non commercial re position cruise.

 

 

details here http://yachtpals.com/boating/le-ponant-3

[tom_uk]

Earilier this year one of the small ships for the ultra luxury Croisieres Cie des iles du Ponat (Ponat Cruises) where captured in the Gulf of Aden. However unfortunatly for the pirates there where no passengers onbard at the time as the ship was on a non commercial re position cruise.

 

 

details here http://yachtpals.com/boating/le-ponant-3

 

That's actually my point: that far from being unfortunate for the pirates, hijacking a ship without passengers is perfect. They can simply extort some money from the ship-owners and return it, and not have to worry about all the headlines about passengers' terrors: "50 years I've been waiting for this cruise and looked what happens! What are the government going to do?"

 

I hadn't heard about this incident, which is exactly what the pirates want: a nice simple extortion that produces few if any headlines.

[The Monocled Mutineer]

Walt:

 

I think it's quite good fun to see threads go off topic and see where they go. Isn't that how conversation in the real world works?

 

So long as folks remain respectful to each other I don't see an issue.

[EtherlyCC]

Have you seen the news today. A cruise ship has been fired upon by pirates in the arden straights. no one hurt but you did say it here first. Well done, perhaps you need to change your call sign to the french policeman in ze pink panzer, inspector cluesoe (i dont spell well in french):D.

[stopgo]

The pirates must have mistaken it for an oil tanker, can't have had their specs on, do pirates where specs?