Semi formal nights to be dropped on Ventura and Oceana!

[lostinvegas]

If you are observant even ties are less common for the fashionable, even when wearing a suit!.

 

I agree with this statement, it is possible to look very smart without a tie.

 

But I do not agree with what you have said about hotels. A hotel and a cruise ship are a very different place. A lot of people use hotels for business as well as pleasure, where as a cruise ship is 100% holiday makers.

 

All the top hotels in the country will have a dress code for dinner, its certainly not going to be black tie but most will insist on trousers and shoes.

 

I used to work at the Bel-air (night club at The Belfry). Our dress code was very strict. Your shirt had to be tucked in and I saw a number of people refused entry for not keeping to this part of the dress code.

 

In P&O's defence they have Ocean Village for people who do not want to dress up so they are giving potential customers lot of options.

 

I hate wearing ties but I do like dressing up for a night out, so i can put up with it to book with P&O.

 

 

Chris

[davecttr]

Well Ocean village won't be around in a year or so so if P&O want to cater to the 'casual' market they will have to have ships with no formal dress code at all. What irritates me is that statement in the brochure about the code applying to the whole ship, do you only have the option of skulking in your cabin that evening and will be pounced on by the P&O inquisition if you step outside the door. It would seem to me that a reasonable compromise would be to have semi formal, for which I have no objection, applying to the rest of the ship on formal evenings and formal for the restaurant. I would willingly take a blazer/sports/linen jacket in addition to my normal smart casual but it appears that P&O don't want my money.

[LibraLass41]

What is a sports jacket? A zippy jacket/jogging top? How is that formal wear?

 

P & O have now decided no semi formals; so jackets are not required atall on Oceana and Ventura so no need for a blazer, linen jacket or sports jacket on those 2 ships, but they will have 4 formal nights( sorry ) out of 14 nights ....so you will need a black dinner (tux) suit which can be bought for £50-£100 or a dark suit... If you feel 10 smart casual nights are not enough out of 2 week cruise then perhaps a informal cruise ship is for you NOT pando?

[lostinvegas]

What is a sports jacket? A zippy jacket/jogging top? How is that formal wear?

 

They call a blazer a sports jacket on Carnival ships. We found it very amusing. I can imagine turning up in an addidas shell suit top to dinner and showing them the dress code.

 

I am not sure how strict they are on formal nights with dress outside the dining rooms. I can't really remember from our last cruise but I am fairly sure non of the P&O staff would say anything if you were dressed in a shirt with a jacket on. Certainly some men took their bow ties off in the casino when playing cards after dinner. This sort of thing does not bother me but it probably irritates some of the more traditional cruisers.

 

I think someone would only say something if you were in shorts and t-shirt, mind you reading some recent reviews of Ventura they might not.

 

Chris

[David&Heather]

As OV cruisers we have been reading this, and other threads about Ventura & Oceana as we have been considering future cruises on these ships.

 

P&O would be daft if they did not attempt to cater for OV customers post 2010. OV is a good product (forget the butlins / hi-de-hi hype - it is simply not the case), they also have a loyal customer base with people who keep going back for more.

Faced with conservative customers who are resistant to changes P&O re-branded 2 of their older ships as OV in order to establish a P&O casual cruise brand. As a proof of concept OV & OV2 appear to have been, and continue to be, very successful.

Faced with pressure to supply more and better ships to P&O Australia and with several new high capacity ships in the P&O UK portfolio they are now taking the risky stratergy of intigrating casual (OV style) cruising into the main P&O UK brand, only time will tell if this will work.

P&O's get out of jail card has already been hinted at as they say the OV brand may appear again in the future, if too many traditionalists defect to RCI, Cunard etc and too many former OV customers migrate to Thompsons, NCL etc will we see Ventura and Oceana re-branded as OV? (I do hope so:))

In a few days we are off on what will probably be our last cruise on OV2, hoping to do a cruise on OV1 in the autumn. After that we are not sure who to cruise with, P&O are making the right noises with Ventura & Oceana but NCL have also caught our eye. Like many of OV's repeat customers we are relatively new to cruising and would never have taken a cruise on a formal ship, however we very much want to carry on cruising post 2010.

[Single Cruiser]

Good post David&Heather.

 

I've done OV cruises every year since 2005 and whilst may get a final one in on OV1 next year after that it's unknown. Maybe NCL or Thomson. I would prefer a UK-orientated ship with onboard in £s and none of this compulsary stuff, after all you're on holiday, a time to unwind and relax and not a formal business meeting! :)

[Beckyfaye-2008]

People choose different Cruise Company's for different reasons, one of the reasons I choose P&O is because of its dress code, I like the ambiance that it gives at dinner etc. When I was on Ventura in Oct we had 4 Formal, 4 Semi Formal and 10 Smart Casual and 99.9% of the passengers adhered to this dress code. When P&O announced that it was to drop the Semi Formal for Smart Casual, this did not bother me too much, because that was no different to what happens on their Caribbean cruises.

 

However when they said they were going to reduce the number of Formal nights on a 14 Day cruise to 2, then I was concerned. However P&O received a lot of complaints from seasoned cruisers from a number of cruise Forum sites, including the P&O site re the changes, P&O issued a directive,that there had been a change of plan and that 4 Formal nights, would be remaining, only the Semi Formal changing.

 

However somebody has reported on another site, that their 14 night cruise in April on Ventura, has only 2 Formal nights, and rightly are complaining that this is not what they booked the same as I will be complaining if my 7 night cruise on Oceana in June only has 1 formal night, again not what I booked. It would appear, P&O changed it from 4 to 2, then back to 4 and now down to 2 again on a 14 nighter.

 

Personally I don't mind what they do, as long as I am aware of it when I book, and can therefore make a choice of whether to book or not. I would not choose OV for the opposite reasons to why people choose not to book P&O, each to ther own. The only thing is I loved Ventura as a ship, but would not book it again if they reduced the Formal nights from 4 to 2, because as I say, the ambiance forms part of my holiday enjoyment.:p

 

Beckyfaye

Happy Sailing;)

[daiB]

Yes the lack of clarity is not helpful.:mad:

 

 

:):)Happy Cruising:):)

 

 

:cool:

 

Dai

[Single Cruiser]

I think I read on the P&O Aus forum that there was a rumour on those ships that formal nights were going to be re-branded as "Cocktail Nights".

 

Edit: Found the thread: http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=922660

[David&Heather]

Good post David&Heather.

 

I've done OV cruises every year since 2005 and whilst may get a final one in on OV1 next year after that it's unknown.

 

Lots of us in that situation.

 

Maybe NCL or Thomson. I would prefer a UK-orientated ship with onboard in £s

 

Completely agree, we also prefer ships that look like ships and not floating office blocks.

 

and none of this compulsary stuff, after all you're on holiday,

 

Watch out as you might get shot at dawn for suggesting such an enlightened view:D

 

a time to unwind and relax

 

can't do that we are British!

 

and not a formal business meeting! :)

 

Too many of those at work

 

Warning - some of the above may contain humour:p

[LibraLass41]

Beckyfaye

I agree with your last statement, I wish they would not change the rules AFTER taking my booking/deposit.

I am booked on Oceana for Aug 09, booked June 08, then in Jan 09 they tell us NO SEMI FORMALS on Oceana (and Ventura) from April this year.... I did not agree to this !!:rolleyes:

 

I too love formals and dressing up, now I will have 5 nights out of 7 smart casual....thats smacks of informal cruising to me and p&o was never that!

[southwinds]

P&O Australia is quite a different company to P&O uk so because they are dropping the Formal night wont mean the UK company do the same, in fact I am surpised the Aussies do formal!!! as they are a very informal race...

Cocktail seems a more Aussie ... version of Formal dress to me.

 

P&O were crafty with the new brochure in that on the page with all the ships pictures and information about them you see under Ventura and Oceana they say' Informal nights' hummmm bit of a clue there but none of us spotted it.:rolleyes:

[davecttr]

P&O parent company management must be burning the midnight oil over how they are going to handle the loss of both Ocean Village ships. They could drop casual cruising entirely which would leave a market of over 6000 passengers with just one 'british' ship (Island Escape), this would make TUI and Thomson very happy. Or they could gradually convert some ships to casual, a process made easier by the upcoming Azura, however they still have the industry wide problem of squaring the circle of lots of new capacity and maybe shrinking passenger numbers. Say they decided to retire 2 ships, which ones would go?.

[daiB]

P&O parent company management must be burning the midnight oil over how they are going to handle the loss of both Ocean Village ships. They could drop casual cruising entirely which would leave a market of over 6000 passengers with just one 'british' ship (Island Escape), this would make TUI and Thomson very happy. Or they could gradually convert some ships to casual, a process made easier by the upcoming Azura, however they still have the industry wide problem of squaring the circle of lots of new capacity and maybe shrinking passenger numbers. Say they decided to retire 2 ships, which ones would go?.

 

 

Not going to happen

 

Even in recession the cruise market will expand. Not as much as first thought but it will still expand helped by the strong Euro and to a lesser extent a strong $. As European holidays go up with exchange changes then the relative price of cruising goes down.

 

BTW It is my understanding that OV was making a profit just not as much as the even more expanding Aussie market.

 

 

:):)Happy Cruising:):)

 

 

 

:cool:

 

 

Dai

[Single Cruiser]

P&O parent company management must be burning the midnight oil over how they are going to handle the loss of both Ocean Village ships. They could drop casual cruising entirely which would leave a market of over 6000 passengers with just one 'british' ship (Island Escape), this would make TUI and Thomson very happy. Or they could gradually convert some ships to casual, a process made easier by the upcoming Azura, however they still have the industry wide problem of squaring the circle of lots of new capacity and maybe shrinking passenger numbers. Say they decided to retire 2 ships, which ones would go?.

 

6000 Passengers... No, way more.. Ov1 and OV2 combined carry about 3,500 passengers each fortnight. Assuming the average passenger only does one 2 -week cruise a year thats a total of 26*3500 = 91,000 paying guests on OV each year. After Oct this year 45,000 of them are looking to another brand.

 

I'm sure that rather than retiring the older P&O vessels they could rebrand say Oceana to be OVx :). At one stage it was planned that Carnival would move Golden Princess to be the next OV ship.

 

As Island Escape is now owned by Thomson and they are losing Island Star in March there is even less choice for UK casual cruisers!

[David&Heather]

After Oct this year 45,000 of them are looking to another brand.

 

Or put another way 45,000 potential customers for other cruise lines willing to offer informal relaxed cruising. P&O appear to be trying to attract a proportion of these but I am sure that will leave most of their ships as bastions of formality.

[daiB]

Or put another way 45,000 potential customers for other cruise lines willing to offer informal relaxed cruising. P&O appear to be trying to attract a proportion of these but I am sure that will leave most of their ships as bastions of formality.

 

 

Which is exactly what 95% of P&O cruisers want.:cool:

 

 

 

:):)Happy Cruising:):)

 

 

 

:cool:

 

Dai

[davecttr]

Sorry, when I stated 6000 casual passengers I meant an approximate weekly total for the four british ships involved. This halves this May and halves again next year leaving just one ship. I wonder if most casual passengers take a one week cruise rather than two, and if the recession will mean less 2 week cruises taken? If so, P&O basing their ships in Southampton is not a good idea as they will restrict cruisers to Iberia, Norway etc. I would expect to see at least 1 ship based in the Med offering 1 week and 2 week cruises. This has the advantage of cutting out the long haul around Spain and would allow for proper cruising to Greece etc, not just a token call at Corfu as part of a long itinery.

 

Or look at it another way, for the 'british' market, two years ago:

 

'P&O' - 5 formal ships and 2 informal

'TUI' - 5 semi formal ships and 2 informal

 

Now:

'P&O' - 6 formal ships (equivalent to 7) and 1 informal

'TUI' - 4 semi formal ships and 1 informal

 

Post Azura:

'P&O' - 7 formal ships (equivalent to 9)

'TUI' - 4 semi formal ships and 1 informal

 

P&O better hope they can grow the formal market or convert 2 of the ships to informal!

[daiB]

Sorry, when I stated 6000 casual passengers I meant an approximate weekly total for the four british ships involved. This halves this May and halves again next year leaving just one ship. I wonder if most casual passengers take a one week cruise rather than two, and if the recession will mean less 2 week cruises taken? If so, P&O basing their ships in Southampton is not a good idea as they will restrict cruisers to Iberia, Norway etc. I would expect to see at least 1 ship based in the Med offering 1 week and 2 week cruises. This has the advantage of cutting out the long haul around Spain and would allow for proper cruising to Greece etc, not just a token call at Corfu as part of a long itinery.

 

Or look at it another way, for the 'british' market, two years ago:

 

'P&O' - 5 formal ships and 2 informal

'TUI' - 5 semi formal ships and 2 informal

 

Now:

'P&O' - 6 formal ships (equivalent to 7) and 1 informal

'TUI' - 4 semi formal ships and 1 informal

 

Post Azura:

'P&O' - 7 formal ships (equivalent to 9)

'TUI' - 4 semi formal ships and 1 informal

 

P&O better hope they can grow the formal market or convert 2 of the ships to informal!

 

 

But the market is still growing!

 

P&O will not move a ship to the med. Cunard tried it with QV and returned to Southampton.

 

P&O will not replace OV at the moment. OV was not making enough money. So the ships were moved to Australia where they will make more.

 

The Fly cruise to the med from the UK is not big and covered by other lines eg. Costa, another Carnival line. They have a massive fleet and appear to be quite cheap.

 

 

:):)Happy Cruising:):)

 

 

 

 

:cool:

 

 

Dai

[davecttr]

The cruise market is still growing sounds funny to me in the present economic situation. Do you have the figures?

 

Cunard does not cater for the casual market so QV trying the med base does not give any clues to whether a P&O 'casual' ship would do well there.

 

Costa!!!, Costuna Fortuna is an apt name for a ship as according to several reviews everything aboard appears to cost extra and is expensive plus it is not a 'british' operation.

 

Anyway there is no need to argue over this, time will tell!.

[daiB]

The cruise market is still growing sounds funny to me in the present economic situation. Do you have the figures?

 

Cunard does not cater for the casual market so QV trying the med base does not give any clues to whether a P&O 'casual' ship would do well there.

 

Costa!!!, Costuna Fortuna is an apt name for a ship as according to several reviews everything aboard appears to cost extra and is expensive plus it is not a 'british' operation.

 

Anyway there is no need to argue over this, time will tell!.

 

Thats where I got my figures:-

 

Mr P Time

Luton.:D

 

You need to factor in the exchange rate which will hit all European hols. this and next year whereas P&O cruises are payed for in £'s

 

 

 

:):)Happy Cruising:):)

 

 

 

:cool:

 

Dai

[Norfolk Brit]

The cruise market is still growing sounds funny to me in the present economic situation. Do you have the figures?

 

Some of the travel writers are trying to talk this up, with the emphasis being particularly on all-inclusive holidays being a better deal in the current climate. As they cruise free of charge prior to writing their reviews, they may not be the most unbiased observers on the planet.

 

The vast number of offers arriving daily in my inbox tells another story.

 

Mary

[David&Heather]

Anyway there is no need to argue over this, time will tell!.

 

Could'nt agree more and it's going to be interesting to see the outcome of all this. However Carnival / P&O need to do a bit more if they are going to retain my custom and that of many present OV cruisers.

[Hasta La Vista Baby]

I agree that P&O should not have changed the dress code from that detailed in the brochure. One of the joys of travelling from Southampton is taking lots of posh frocks without worrying about baggage allowance.

 

Hopefully, P&O keep their word and maintain the four formal evenings.

 

As for the demise of informal, I'll still be wearing my lovely dresses on semi formal nights.

 

I plan to wear long dresses on formal nights, cocktail length on most semi formal nights and a pair of classy trousers and shirt/jacket on the remaining evenings.

 

My other half will also be wearing his sports jacket for some of the semi formal evenings - especially if we choose to eat in a speciality restaurant, or even to take a walk on deck after dinner if the evening is chilly.

 

It's down to individual choice I guess, if you're a girl who loves to dress up then I say go for it!!

[feebee_71]

Hasta la Vista Baby,

 

I am not sure which ship you are on but, if it is Oceana or Ventura, there won't be any semi-formal nights for you to wear your cocktail dresses on.

 

From their return to Southampton from the Caribbean the 2 ships will only feature 2 formal nights on a 7 night cruise or 4 formal nights on a 14 night cruise. All the rest of the nights onboard will be smart casual.

 

Feebee_71 :)