Carnival Dropped the Ball when guy died.

[med9114u]

Again, being a firefighter/paramedic, I have a thought for all the AED advocates on here. Yes, I believe...and know for a fact, that AED's save lives. I have never seen them on a cruise ship, but have not been looking for them either.

The cruise lines would need to be very careful with the placement of the AED's...most of us on cruises spend some...okay, alot of time in/near the pools. What is a BIG NO, NO with an AED? WATER!!! What would happen if someone were to drop in an apparent cardiac (heart) event? Jo-Blow good citizen with no training grabs the AED, applies it to the patient as instructed, shocks the patient as instructed, and then wait!!! Now Jo-Blow good citizen and the patient are BOTH dead...why? The patient was drug from the pool soaking wet when he was "shocked" by the AED. So now what happens...the family of the patient, the family of Mr. Good Citizen sue the cruise line for negligence...and WIN the cases.

Just something to think about. Again, I agree that they should be there and they probably are, just not in public view for that reason. Heck, I think they should hire EMT's and paramedics to work on the ships...we are the ones trained to deal with an emergency...not a Dr. (Sorry to all the Dr's on here); but honestly, Dr's are used to dealing with situations in a controlled environment...not in an emergency situation.

 

Take care and be safe...

[lovesublime]

I'm a long term cardiac nurse and currently work in CV recovery. If someone suffers a cardiac event away from a hospital (AED available or not) their chances of survival are less than 5%. Heck, even at the hospital, their chances are slim. Bottom line-most people who go into a fatal arrythmia or asystole DO NOT survive. Where I work, we average about two codes a day. I can literally count on one hand the patients who have survived-and I've been working here for many years.

[dan40]

Again, being a firefighter/paramedic, I have a thought for all the AED advocates on here. Yes, I believe...and know for a fact, that AED's save lives. I have never seen them on a cruise ship, but have not been looking for them either.

The cruise lines would need to be very careful with the placement of the AED's...most of us on cruises spend some...okay, alot of time in/near the pools. What is a BIG NO, NO with an AED? WATER!!! What would happen if someone were to drop in an apparent cardiac (heart) event? Jo-Blow good citizen with no training grabs the AED, applies it to the patient as instructed, shocks the patient as instructed, and then wait!!! Now Jo-Blow good citizen and the patient are BOTH dead...why? The patient was drug from the pool soaking wet when he was "shocked" by the AED. So now what happens...the family of the patient, the family of Mr. Good Citizen sue the cruise line for negligence...and WIN the cases.

Just something to think about. Again, I agree that they should be there and they probably are, just not in public view for that reason. Heck, I think they should hire EMT's and paramedics to work on the ships...we are the ones trained to deal with an emergency...not a Dr. (Sorry to all the Dr's on here); but honestly, Dr's are used to dealing with situations in a controlled environment...not in an emergency situation.

 

Take care and be safe...

 

Yes, let the emergency people handle the emergencies! I worked Safety at auto races many years. One time working turn 6 a Formula V took an "agricultural excursion" off turn 5. He flipped a number of times and was unconscious when workers reached him. The driver did survive fairly well. Once he woke up, his only injury was where the rookie safety worker CUT HIS THROAT trying to cut his helmet off! A new training session was immediately scheduled!!!:D

 

 

Dan

[luckycruzer]

Horrible stuff! This is not good nor right. I truly believe the doctors on ships are not qualified and are doctor "rejects" from the real world where they couldn't make it in their own practices. I think they are second rate doctors and most of them are from other countries.

 

NEW JERSEY, and very blonde....yummm

[iwannacruznow]

I'm a long term cardiac nurse and currently work in CV recovery. If someone suffers a cardiac event away from a hospital (AED available or not) their chances of survival are less than 5%. Heck, even at the hospital, their chances are slim. Bottom line-most people who go into a fatal arrythmia or asystole DO NOT survive. Where I work, we average about two codes a day. I can literally count on one hand the patients who have survived-and I've been working here for many years.

Just wondering why we hear about so many HA survivors?

[Mrs. Ram]

Just to be straight with you...Internal bleeding that you are talking about can only be diagnosed that way if the source of the bleeding is located in the Alimentary Canal (meaning from the entire tract-- mouth to the rectum) ;)...if the bleeding were coming from any other source, it would be trapped in the area surrounding it.....IE brain bleeds do not show up in vomit or stool.....same with many bleeds from abd trauma and occasionally ruptured ectopic pregnancies. So it is not always a no brainer and is not always easy to diagnose. Just going on my RN training and hospital work ;)

 

June

 

Didn't want to get graphic but my friend was have black, tarry stools from what she told me and the doctor still didn't mention it to be internal bleeding

[lovesublime]

Just wondering why we hear about so many HA survivors?

 

 

Not everyone who has a heart attack goes into a fatal arrythmia or asystole.

[kyrisong1]

Just to be straight with you...Internal bleeding that you are talking about can only be diagnosed that way if the source of the bleeding is located in the Alimentary Canal (meaning from the entire tract-- mouth to the rectum) ;)...if the bleeding were coming from any other source, it would be trapped in the area surrounding it.....IE brain bleeds do not show up in vomit or stool.....same with many bleeds from abd trauma and occasionally ruptured ectopic pregnancies. So it is not always a no brainer and is not always easy to diagnose. Just going on my RN training and hospital work ;)

 

June

I won't get into a medical debate with you on a cruise board, however you will see some kind of symptoms from internal bleeding, for instance a intercranal bleed is going to show neuro symptoms, a simple neuro check will show that something amiss, to diagnose, no you can't without CAT. I agree that advanced testing is needed for bleeds that are outside of the GI system, however something is going to clue you in, severe abdominal pain in a woman of pregnancy age, it would follow that you would do a pregnancy test, which is very simple, and then fly out prn.

I am not a trauma nurse but I've worked in IMC, cardiac, pulmonary and now psych.

I do not believe that you see alot of the internal bleeding in day to day life, unless you are talking of trauma. A cruiseship should not be expected to have the advanced diagnosis tools that ERs have.;)

[kyrisong1]

Not everyone who has a heart attack goes into a fatal arrythmia or asystole.

you are absolutely correct, and many people have smaller heart attacks and aren't even aware of it, having shrugged it off as indigestion or such.

But the muscle without oxygen will die and heart muscle in that area will cease to function. One NP was fond of saying "dead meat don't beat" rofl she was cute but ditzy.

Carole

[iwannacruznow]

Didn't want to get graphic but my friend was have black, tarry stools from what she told me and the doctor still didn't mention it to be internal bleeding

Can we stop it with the black tarry stools?

[BallFour4]

Actually prostate cancer is the #1 killer of men.

 

While annual prostate exams and PSA tests are a must so is good cardiac care.

 

Heart disease is the number one killer of men in America, the numbers are a frightening 28%.

 

Prevention is where i spend my days in the medical field.

 

Get a PSA test and full cholesterol panel at least annually!

[Mrs. Ram]

I had to chime in here...but only to clear up a few things. As an OB nurse who works in Labor and Delivery and I have for many many years (yes, I'm old)...I had to comment on the Ectopic Pregnancy issue. Not only do I deliver babies but I work in an area where newly diagnosed pregnant women come in with pregnancy problems in the hospital. I have also working in an OB/GYN office, so I have heard many issues that were thought to be caused by one issue, only to turn up being caused by another.

 

#1 - If the patient INDEED had internal bleeding, this would have meant that she had a RUPTURED ectopic pregnancy and would have been a LIFE THREATENING emergency and would have needed to be MEDIVAC-ED off the ship....What I suspect is that maybe she had some Vaginal bleeding and pain complaints and wasn't sure where the blood source was coming from (sorry to get so graphic). This is seen quite often in L&D as women come in and aren't sure if the blood they are seeing is Urinary or vaginal...so I can see how that may have happened here.

 

#2 - An Ultrasound would have solved the whole issue. What I suspect is that the patient was having mild - mod crampy pain which can present itself like kidney stone complaints. In addition, the patient probably said "I had some blood when I went to the bathroom" I hear this one alot too. Being that the ship's doctors (and MOST doctors who aren't OB's) do not do pelvic exams. Even in the Emergency rooms you all go to everyday for problems, those doctors do not do pelvic exams....that is usually reserved for an OB...so it isn't a STANDARD thing for a physician to do. The patient was probably given pain meds and sent on her way.

 

#3 - Considering the fact that the HOSPITAL also missed this diagnosis, leads me also to believe that the patients complaints were probably vague. I don't know how many times a patient comes in to me and can't describe what is bothering them. It isn't possible to go thru the list of all known diseases and their symptoms with the patient, so a healthcare provider can only go on what the patient is telling them. I'm certain she was asked (atleast in the hospital) when was your last menstrual cycle....could you be pregnant...that is pretty standard on all types of questionairres.

 

I'm not saying that the ship or the hospital didn't do anything incorrectly, I'm just saying the situation was probably not as DIRE as some have hinted at. Being that she made it thru that extended time period without dying. I have seen many terrible cases of Ectopic Pregnancies that have ruptured and seen a couple that ended in death due to lack of timeliness in getting them resolved...and it wasn't extended periods of hours we are talking about...We are talking within an hour of having it rupture.

 

Just wanted to give some facts on the matter there.

 

I pray for the family of the young man.

 

June

 

When she went in to the doctor she told him she felt like she was dying, so I would consider that to be extreme pain. She did not think she was pregnant because she was bleeding and thought she was having an irregular period, seeing as she had just gotten off the week before (dont know why she would still get her period if the egg were still growing, but I am not a doc!). She also had black stools but for some reason did not think much of it. Maybe she didn't know that was a sign of internal bleeding. Not sure! I have no idea why the hospital in Port Canaveral missed it because she was in such bad pain that she had to be pushed off the ship in a wheel chair. When she did have to have her surgery the doctor had to cut a portion of her tube out. The doctor showed it to her and apparently it was "bulging" like it was about to burst. The doctor said she was extremely lucky to have gotten there in time. I think I answered your questions!! *wipes sweat from forehead*:)

[Mrs. Ram]

Can we stop it with the black tarry stools?

haha made me laugh...I wipe a babies butt all day so doesn't bother me at all;)

[alphakitty]

:eek:

:rolleyes:

 

I wonder if I'll ever stop being totally flabbergasted when I hear stuff like this.

 

Let's hope not halos. :eek:

[fllady61]

There was a guy in his 30's who died on our Fascination cruise while playing basketball. I have not posted on this board much, and want everyone to know that I am not a troll. I would want people who are concerned about their safety to know that Carnival does not have a clue how to handle emergency situations. It took forever for anyone to arrive at the scene. There was no crowd control. When crew members finally arrived they were WALKING with no equipment, difribulators, etc. No one could believe their eyes. I will never take a carnival cruise again. This cruise was a great value, but I can't have my family's life in their hands. I would hate to see what kind of chaos would have prevailed if they had to evacuate the ship. Just felt the need to share.

 

 

that is strange because they were needed 3 times on my last cruise, and arrived within 3 minutes to the scene. and as far as being a medical emergency, our captain broke all speed limits getting a crew member to a facility. closest one was 4 hours from where we were from at the high speed.

 

Maybe you should send carnival a complaint about it. the medical staff is to act like a landline evac unit would be. If they were unprepared, maybe they got wrong info and did not know what they were up against.

[Almost Packed]

i was in a car accident once...the response time for the police and ambulance were horrendous.

 

i guess i will never drive again! lol

 

too bad some of those people in the crowd did not know CPR or help out huh?

[San_Antonio_Ex]

I did not mean that prostate problems can not be a serious problem but it more than likely wont kill a man in 2 days. When a woman has a problem concerning her reproductive system it could kill her in 24 hours depending on the severity. I also did not post this to cause a debate. Just to post our experience with the health care on Carnival. :p

 

I'll admit this is off-topic and I apologize for hijacking the thread, but other than an ectopic pregnancy - which is rare, what female reproductive system problems do you know of that can kill a woman in 24 hours? My gosh - you make it sound as if we are walking time bombs...:rolleyes:

 

There are many types of medical emergencies that can first present on a cruise - or any other vacation. You know when you go that you will be at sea and away from a hospital for long periods of time. There is some element of risk that we all need to assume for ourselves - male, female, young or old.

 

It's very sad what happened to what appears to be a lovely young man. I feel for his wife and family. I don't blame Carnival. I don't blame him. Death happens to us all.

[jakieemma]

So you believe his heresay? He wrote his wife joined him in the restaraunt and told him what happened. That you believe but op you don't. I was there the whole time and it was a good 10 minutes before medical attention arrived. This is not heresay I WAS THERE. An autopsy revealed his life could have been saved with quick actions. Are you happy now Carnival blew it. The carnival employee could have stuck a knife in him and you would and all these cheerleaders would still defend Carnival. The truth hurts. :(

 

That's the funniest thing I've read on this post...:rolleyes:

[San_Antonio_Ex]

Amazing another one hit wonder has made a post

 

Everyone has to make a first post at some time, and thereby be a "one hit wonder" - why is this relevant????? :confused:

[Almost Packed]

Also...moving this guy off of the court would prevent some serious burns to his back. I had a guy collapse while playing basketball in the summer on a local park BB court. The guy ended up surviving but suffered from bad burns to his back after laying on a super hot court for 15 minutes.:eek:

 

if you are dead, i don't think burns matter much.

[jakieemma]

Also...moving this guy off of the court would prevent some serious burns to his back. I had a guy collapse while playing basketball in the summer on a local park BB court. The guy ended up surviving but suffered from bad burns to his back after laying on a super hot court for 15 minutes.:eek:

 

if you are dead, i don't think burns matter much.

 

Did you read what I wrote...he survived the arrest and suffered 3rd degree burns to his back which almost killed him. You don't have to be dead to be unconscious and laying on hot pavement.

If this guy did survive his arrest he may have suffered other problems. I doubt the court on board is as hot as a city park bb court...I was making a point.

[Almost Packed]

if you are dead, i don't think burns matter much.

 

Did you read what I wrote...he survived the arrest and suffered 3rd degree burns to his back which almost killed him. You don't have to be dead to be unconscious and laying on hot pavement.

If this guy did survive his arrest he may have suffered other problems. I doubt the court on board is as hot as a city park bb court...I was making a point.

 

yes, i read what you wrote...you did not mention 3rd degree burns...many times, when people collaps, you are instructed not to move them so you don't cause more injury to them. of course, if they are in a pool drowning, or a burning car, then i would assume it's okay to move them.

[renalrn]

You know one comment really grated on my nerves, about the doctors being third rate because they are foreign.

I cannot tell you how many of the excellent doctors I've met that are "foreign" or from other countries, I think you'll find a great number of specialists in this country do not come from here. I'm a nurse and have worked in hospitals about 16 years, so I know from first hand experience.

Keep your hate speech to yourself, whether you are aware of it or not, it IS hateful to say someone is not up to par because they don't come from your country.

My opinion, like it or not.

Carole[/quote

 

-Agree in total. Often a physician trained in poorer countries are better with hands on assessment skills because they were trained in a setting of not having the luxury of MRI's,CTscanners and other expensive tests. I've noticed that MD's who completed med school in another country spend more time at the bedside while most trained here spend the majority of their visit in the nurses station with the chart.-Just an observation after 26 yrs of nursing.

[renalrn]

Just to be straight with you...Internal bleeding that you are talking about can only be diagnosed that way if the source of the bleeding is located in the Alimentary Canal (meaning from the entire tract-- mouth to the rectum) ;)...if the bleeding were coming from any other source, it would be trapped in the area surrounding it.....IE brain bleeds do not show up in vomit or stool.....same with many bleeds from abd trauma and occasionally ruptured ectopic pregnancies. So it is not always a no brainer and is not always easy to diagnose. Just going on my RN training and hospital work ;)

 

June

]

June is correct. My hubby had a retroperitoneal bleed that wasn't found until after his sixth unit of blood. All good now!

[jakieemma]

Did you read what I wrote...he survived the arrest and suffered 3rd degree burns to his back which almost killed him. You don't have to be dead to be unconscious and laying on hot pavement.

If this guy did survive his arrest he may have suffered other problems. I doubt the court on board is as hot as a city park bb court...I was making a point.

 

yes, i read what you wrote...you did not mention 3rd degree burns...many times, when people collaps, you are instructed not to move them so you don't cause more injury to them. of course, if they are in a pool drowning, or a burning car, then i would assume it's okay to move them.

 

I'm not going to debate about patient care. All I said was you might want to move him if the ground was very hot. In this guys case, I doubt anything would have changed the outcome...no matter how fast they got to him. He was a ticking time bomb.