I feel we long time CC'ers have been beaten into submission and the great debates

[fig414]

are fruitless. We used to spew our thoughts about the usual subjects with zeal and we still care but we know we have been defeated. I'm only 52 and have been cruising for 15 years. I know I'm not an old fart because we love to hang out late with the kids. It's just the long time cruisers (and 15 years is not that long) wanted to keep a lot of some cruising traditions alive. Dress codes, chair hogging, smoking, smuggling, showing up late for dinner etc etc etc. Carnival has obviously accepted the way the masses act today and we have to accept that. What I miss is the fervor that people on this board used to argue (both ways) about these subjects. Nowadays we know what the final determination will be and the fights are fruitless and I've noticed the long time CCer's just avoid them. Oh well. The site is still great for info though. I guess 5 years makes me a "long time CCer" Who knows. Thanks

[jimjamxx]

are fruitless. We used to spew our thoughts about the usual subjects with zeal and we still care but we know we have been defeated. I'm only 52 and have been cruising for 15 years. I know I'm not an old fart because we love to hang out late with the kids. It's just the long time cruisers (and 15 years is not that long) wanted to keep a lot of some cruising traditions alive. Dress codes, chair hogging, smoking, smuggling, showing up late for dinner etc etc etc. Carnival has obviously accepted the way the masses act today and we have to accept that. What I miss is the fervor that people on this board used to argue (both ways) about these subjects. Nowadays we know what the final determination will be and the fights are fruitless and I've noticed the long time CCer's just avoid them. Oh well. The site is still great for info though. I guess 5 years makes me a "long time CCer" Who knows. Thanks

 

WHAT!!!

I am not sure just what you are trying to say or imply.

JimmyJames

[Cruise Cat]

are fruitless. We used to spew our thoughts about the usual subjects with zeal and we still care but we know we have been defeated. I'm only 52 and have been cruising for 15 years. I know I'm not an old fart because we love to hang out late with the kids. It's just the long time cruisers (and 15 years is not that long) wanted to keep a lot of some cruising traditions alive. Dress codes, chair hogging, smoking, smuggling, showing up late for dinner etc etc etc. Carnival has obviously accepted the way the masses act today and we have to accept that. What I miss is the fervor that people on this board used to argue (both ways) about these subjects. Nowadays we know what the final determination will be and the fights are fruitless and I've noticed the long time CCer's just avoid them. Oh well. The site is still great for info though. Thanks

 

I avoid those debates simply because Cruise Critic is not a democracy where you can post your free speech, it is more like the internet in China. Also, many (as myself) are on group cruises. Yes, I could say what I want on my opinions; but to what end? I'd rather cruise accepting the regression of the cruise industry towards it's own "Idiocracy" (look up the movie) and get along with my cruisemates than to be arguing with them over what we like the least about cruising. Better to focus on the few good things that are left.

[tarps14]

I get what you're saying completely. I think this last one on the chicken pox thing kinda did me in. I don't get why everyone feels the need to debate to the death every little thing that comes along. We come on here for cruising info, not to solve the world's problems. I don't get why people feel it necessary to have everyone else in the known universe agree with their point of view. I think in the grand scheme of things, the internet, while having it's definite pros, it has also evolved us all into beings that aren't concerned enough with other's feelings. We say things we might never consider saying to someone's face. I don't know.....JMHO.

[LanaJae]

Just wanted to say that I really appreciate all the advice from those who've been cruising for years!

[Kurbanfan]

are fruitless. We used to spew our thoughts about the usual subjects with zeal and we still care but we know we have been defeated. I'm only 52 and have been cruising for 15 years. I know I'm not an old fart because we love to hang out late with the kids. It's just the long time cruisers (and 15 years is not that long) wanted to keep a lot of some cruising traditions alive. Dress codes, chair hogging, smoking, smuggling, showing up late for dinner etc etc etc. Carnival has obviously accepted the way the masses act today and we have to accept that. What I miss is the fervor that people on this board used to argue (both ways) about these subjects. Nowadays we know what the final determination will be and the fights are fruitless and I've noticed the long time CCer's just avoid them. Oh well. The site is still great for info though. I guess 5 years makes me a "long time CCer" Who knows. Thanks

 

There has been a few debates going on........maybe you missed them:confused:

[*Mach*]

are fruitless. We used to spew our thoughts about the usual subjects with zeal and we still care but we know we have been defeated. I'm only 52 and have been cruising for 15 years. I know I'm not an old fart because we love to hang out late with the kids. It's just the long time cruisers (and 15 years is not that long) wanted to keep a lot of some cruising traditions alive. Dress codes, chair hogging, smoking, smuggling, showing up late for dinner etc etc etc. Carnival has obviously accepted the way the masses act today and we have to accept that. What I miss is the fervor that people on this board used to argue (both ways) about these subjects. Nowadays we know what the final determination will be and the fights are fruitless and I've noticed the long time CCer's just avoid them. Oh well. The site is still great for info though. I guess 5 years makes me a "long time CCer" Who knows. Thanks

 

 

If I may... I am not a 'long time CCer'... only about a year and a half but I think I have a few valid observations...

The passion is not gone concerning these discussion but the civility IS. Threads about dress codes, choice of dining, chair hogs and smoking get deleted because the participants can't remain civil. These treads seemingly ALWAYS descend into name calling, insults and slander. If discussions of those topics could be conducted with respect for the other debaters in mind all would be right with the world and perhaps something truly useful could come of them...

But, then again... what do I know... I'm just a rookie...

Thanks for reading...

[Barefootin']

I understand what the original poster is saying, and I tend to agree with her. For nearly seven years, I have been a frequent reader and an infrequent poster on these boards. They are not as lively or as entertaining as in the past, but the info provided is invaluable, and my wife and I have personally benefited from it on a number of cruises. But the boards lack the zest of the past, and cruising is sacricificng some its great traditions.

 

Dan

[rebeljohn]

If I may... I am not a 'long time CCer'... only about a year and a half but I think I have a few valid observations...

The passion is not gone concerning these discussion but the civility IS. Threads about dress codes, choice of dining, chair hogs and smoking get deleted because the participants can't remain civil. These treads seemingly ALWAYS descend into name calling, insults and slander. If discussions of those topics could be conducted with respect for the other debaters in mind all would be right with the world and perhaps something truly useful could come of them...

But, then again... what do I know... I'm just a rookie...

Thanks for reading...

 

Keeps you busy, doesn't it.............?

[*Mach*]

Keeps you busy, doesn't it.............?

 

 

Certainly does...

By the way... love the avitar...

Mach

[Cruise Cat]

If I may... I am not a 'long time CCer'... only about a year and a half but I think I have a few valid observations...

 

The passion is not gone concerning these discussion but the civility IS. Threads about dress codes, choice of dining, chair hogs and smoking get deleted because the participants can't remain civil. These treads seemingly ALWAYS descend into name calling, insults and slander. If discussions of those topics could be conducted with respect for the other debaters in mind all would be right with the world and perhaps something truly useful could come of them...

 

But, then again... what do I know... I'm just a rookie...

 

Thanks for reading...

 

Kind of reminds me of how wars are started between countries. It starts out with something trivial and then escalates because both side have to prove they are right. When they run out of arguments on the actual issue or start to lose, they attack the individuals. Arguing: Just because you can, doesn't mean you should......

[Cruzman]

I understand what the original poster is saying' date=' and I tend to agree with her. For nearly seven years, I have been a frequent reader and an infrequent poster on these boards. They are not as lively or as entertaining as in the past, but the info provided is invaluable, and my wife and I have personally benefited from it on a number of cruises. But the boards lack the zest of the past, and cruising is sacricificng some its great traditions.

 

Dan[/quote']

 

Yowza! I agree, especially about the traditions. I am one of those people who have a strong belief that "if it ain't broke, don't fix it!

[Cruise Cat]

Yowza! I agree, especially about the traditions. I am one of those people who have a strong belief that "if it ain't broke, don't fix it!

 

The only thing that was broke with some of those traditions was they did not produce enough income for the cruise lines. Their answer was to change their target customers and fill up their cruise ships (we are not part of their target customers anymore). To do that, traditions and enforcement of certain rules had to go out the window becaue their new target audiance did not like them. It really started to go downhill several years ago as RCI and Carnival Corporation bought up their smaller competitors. It's all about the corporation's bottom line and the competion between the two lines to be the biggest and have the biggest shopping malls, I mean ships:D......

[Kurbanfan]

The only thing that was broke with some of those traditions was they did not produce enough income for the cruise lines. Their answer was to change their target customers and fill up their cruise ships (we are not part of their target customers anymore). To do that, traditions and enforcement of certain rules had to go out the window becaue their new target audiance did not like them. It really started to go downhill several years ago as RCI and Carnival Corporation bought up their smaller competitors. It's all about the corporation's bottom line and the competion between the two lines to be the biggest and have the biggest shopping malls, I mean ships:D......

 

So who are their target customers now:confused:

[Cruise Cat]

So who are their target customers now:confused:

 

What it is not are those who want to get dressed up and have a nice quiet dinner every night in the formal dinning room where the dress code is stringent and enforced as in days gone by. It is not those who want a quiet but fun cruise without a bunch of little kids running all over the ship, parading down the promenade singing, or in the hot tube in their diapers. It is not those that want to relax and listen to steel drum music out by the pool without a theater screen giving the morning news. It is not for those that would like to watch a first run movie in their cabin without an additional cost. It is not those that want a comfortable square foot per passenger ratio. It is not those that want to be isolated from the world (internet and annoying people on cell phones throughout the ship, not to mention the annoying walkie talkies). It is not for those that want a ship to look and feel like a ship on the ocean instead of a shopping mall or convention center.

 

I could go on. Some depend on the cruise line, like having to pay for room service in the am like on RCCL. It is for the mass market now, not the traditional cruiser (which was the OP's point). They are going for the peak of the bell curve. As a business, I understand that and don't blame them at all. That is why I don't harp on things and argue about what it was or should be anymore. It is what it is as they say. All of us can take it or leave it. Rather than argue these things with someone on a cruise board, I would rather get to know the person and talk about the fun things we are going to enjoy on the cruise. Arguing traditional cruising and the target customers is like talking old tradtional baseball parks with mechanical signs and modern ballparks with electronic gizmos all over the place.

[gaylensgigi]

Kind of reminds me of how wars are started between countries. It starts out with something trivial and then escalates because both side have to prove they are right. When they run out of arguments on the actual issue or start to lose, they attack the individuals. Arguing: Just because you can, doesn't mean you should......

Oh boy do I hear you. And that is my comment on spandex.."just because you can dosnt mean you should"

I joined CC a year ago. I have learned a lot.I usually stay in my groups threads because there are actually some very mean people on this board. I come here to chat an pick up information. I have made some truly great people that i will call friend for many years to come. But when you state an opinion that certain people dont like they tell you "get over it, ship happens..take a big girl pill" Come on..is this the playground at middle school?

[Cruise Cat]

Oh boy do I hear you. And that is my comment on spandex.."just because you can dosnt mean you should"

I joined CC a year ago. I have learned a lot.I usually stay in my groups threads because there are actually some very mean people on this board. I come here to chat an pick up information. I have made some truly great people that i will call friend for many years to come. But when you state an opinion that certain people dont like they tell you "get over it, ship happens..take a big girl pill" Come on..is this the playground at middle school?

 

That's why I stay away from threads on hot topics. Our debating and getting mad at each other is not going to change things, cure cancer, or solve world hunger; so why argue? I agree with the group thread thing (and also the fun threads in the off-topic area). Some people just want to argue and prove they are right, and will step on everyone to do it. As in my post above; I have preferences and opinions. They may not be shared by others and it is not my job to impose them on other sto make them think exactly as I do. They are entitled to disagree with me and have their own opinions.

[tbjl24]

What it is not are those who want to get dressed up and have a nice quiet dinner every night in the formal dinning room where the dress code is stringent and enforced as in days gone by. It is not those who want a quiet but fun cruise without a bunch of little kids running all over the ship, parading down the promenade singing, or in the hot tube in their diapers. It is not those that want to relax and listen to steel drum music out by the pool without a theater screen giving the morning news. It is not for those that would like to watch a first run movie in their cabin without an additional cost. It is not those that want a comfortable square foot per passenger ratio. It is not those that want to be isolated from the world (internet and annoying people on cell phones throughout the ship, not to mention the annoying walkie talkies). It is not for those that want a ship to look and feel like a ship on the ocean instead of a shopping mall or convention center.

 

I agree with your points above but there are other lines out there that offer these amenities. That is the beauty of the Carnival Corporation, they own different lines, each with their own atmosphere to target specific demographics.

 

I believe Carnival Cruise Line's strategy is going right along with their marketing campaign of Fun for All, All for Fun.

 

I have not been on Princess or HAL, but maybe they offer more of what folks are missing from the "old" cruising days.

[Kurbanfan]

What it is not are those who want to get dressed up and have a nice quiet dinner every night in the formal dinning room where the dress code is stringent and enforced as in days gone by. It is not those who want a quiet but fun cruise without a bunch of little kids running all over the ship, parading down the promenade singing, or in the hot tube in their diapers. It is not those that want to relax and listen to steel drum music out by the pool without a theater screen giving the morning news. It is not for those that would like to watch a first run movie in their cabin without an additional cost. It is not those that want a comfortable square foot per passenger ratio. It is not those that want to be isolated from the world (internet and annoying people on cell phones throughout the ship, not to mention the annoying walkie talkies). It is not for those that want a ship to look and feel like a ship on the ocean instead of a shopping mall or convention center.

 

I could go on. Some depend on the cruise line, like having to pay for room service in the am like on RCCL. It is for the mass market now, not the traditional cruiser (which was the OP's point). They are going for the peak of the bell curve. As a business, I understand that and don't blame them at all. That is why I don't harp on things and argue about what it was or should be anymore. It is what it is as they say. All of us can take it or leave it. Rather than argue these things with someone on a cruise board, I would rather get to know the person and talk about the fun things we are going to enjoy on the cruise. Arguing traditional cruising and the target customers is like talking old tradtional baseball parks with mechanical signs and modern ballparks with electronic gizmos all over the place.

 

good save:D

I could be wrong but I think the op meant they miss a good civil debate whether right or wrong...........

[fig414]

OP here. I agree with the "Cruise Cat" responses. The "hot topic" discussions are the ones I was trying to comment upon. The traditional fights are so, far smaller, and less intense for good reason I guess. The masses have won out and that's fine. 2009 cruises are so totally different from even 2001 which was our 4th cruise out of 8. You can rarely beat the majority. We CCer's often forget that we are a minuscule part of a cruise. Since I've been a member I've asked every dinner mate if they knew about Cruise Critic and not one, zero, nada knew what I was talking about. 3 Carnival and 1 Princess. Around 0-40. We "traditionalists" take some topics so seriously to no avail. All we want is to see one thing. Everyone dressed nicely for dinner. Majority rules so we move on. It will never stop us from cruising on Carnival. I just miss the threads where we thought we might make a difference and turn the tide. What are you gonna do. Save your seats, wear your jeans and tee-shirts, and let your kids in the adult hot tubs. I'll always miss the fight though.

[Kurbanfan]

I agree with your points above but there are other lines out there that offer these amenities. That is the beauty of the Carnival Corporation, they own different lines, each with their own atmosphere to target specific demographics.

 

I believe Carnival Cruise Line's strategy is going right along with their marketing campaign of Fun for All, All for Fun.

 

I have not been on Princess or HAL, but maybe they offer more of what folks are missing from the "old" cruising days.

 

LOL!!! Such drama:rolleyes: Look at their future cruises;)

[Kurbanfan]

OP here. I agree with the "Cruise Cat" responses. The "hot topic" discussions are the ones I was trying to comment upon. The traditional fights are so, far smaller, and less intense for good reason I guess. The masses have won out and that's fine. 2009 cruises are so totally different from even 2001 which was our 4th cruise out of 8. You can rarely beat the majority. We CCer's often forget that we are a minuscule part of a cruise. Since I've been a member I've asked every dinner mate if they knew about Cruise Critic and not one, zero, nada knew what I was talking about. 3 Carnival and 1 Princess. Around 0-40. We "traditionalists" take some topics so seriously to no avail. All we want is to see one thing. Everyone dressed nicely for dinner. Majority rules so we move on. It will never stop us from cruising on Carnival. I just miss the threads where we thought we might make a difference and turn the tide. What are you gonna do. Save your seats, wear your jeans and tee-shirts, and let your kids in the adult hot tubs. I'll always miss the fight though.[/quote]

 

Then fight..........

[rvrgirl]

OP here. I agree with the "Cruise Cat" responses. The "hot topic" discussions are the ones I was trying to comment upon. The traditional fights are so, far smaller, and less intense for good reason I guess. The masses have won out and that's fine. 2009 cruises are so totally different from even 2001 which was our 4th cruise out of 8. You can rarely beat the majority. We CCer's often forget that we are a minuscule part of a cruise. Since I've been a member I've asked every dinner mate if they knew about Cruise Critic and not one, zero, nada knew what I was talking about. 3 Carnival and 1 Princess. Around 0-40. We "traditionalists" take some topics so seriously to no avail. All we want is to see one thing. Everyone dressed nicely for dinner. Majority rules so we move on. It will never stop us from cruising on Carnival. I just miss the threads where we thought we might make a difference and turn the tide. What are you gonna do. Save your seats, wear your jeans and tee-shirts, and let your kids in the adult hot tubs. I'll always miss the fight though.

 

Oh please........really kids in the adult tub can only be blamed on Carnival..... other cruiselines moniter this.....jeans are allowed on most all mass market cruiselines....

I don't get it:confused:

[tedjazz]

This is an interesting thread...where's Dan? ;)

[Kurbanfan]

This is an interesting thread...where's Dan? ;)

 

 

You have been around longer then the op.....tell us how you feel:D