Carnival replied, yes, you will need a passport!?

[Bobbye]

But it's best to read the FAQ on the closed-loop exemption. Notice that some ports such as Belize and Roatan are not included in continuous territories and adjacent islands. So per this would require a passport.

 

12/22/2008)A "closed loop" voyage or itinerary occurs when a vessel departs from a U.S. port or place and returns to the same U.S. port upon completion of the voyage. Initially, the definition of "closed loop" came from the Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative (WHTI) rule making process. Per the WHTI Land and Sea Final Rule, travelers on "closed loop" voyages are not subject to the same documentary requirements for entry to the United States as other travelers.

 

Q: Is this definition the same as what is being used for the modified processing of cruise passengers?A: No. The definition was further refined to be in compliance with our statute and regulations.

 

Q: What is the definition of closed loop in the context of modified processing of cruise passengers?A: Closed-loop cruises are defined as U.S. based cruises with itineraries that both originate and terminate in the United States, returning from contiguous territories or adjacent islands.

 

Q: What does contiguous territories or adjacent islands mean? A: Contiguous Territories are any country sharing a common boundary with the United States. Canada and Mexico are contiguous to the United States. Adjacent Islands as follows: Anguilla, Antigua, Aruba, Bahamas, Barbados, Barbuda, Bermuda, Bonaire, British Virgin Islands, Cayman Islands, Cuba, Curacao, Dominica, the Dominican Republic, Grenada, Guadeloupe, Haiti, Jamaica, Marie-Galantine, Martinique, Miquelon, Montserrat, Saba, Saint Barthelemy, Saint Christopher, Saint Eustatius, Saint Kitts-Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Maarten, Saint Martin, Saint Pierre, Saint Vincent and Grenadines, Trinidad and Tobago, Turks and Caicos Islands, and other British, French and Netherlands territory or possessions bordering on the Caribbean Sea.

 

Q: How was it determined that these locations are "Adjacent Islands" A: Adjacent Islands are defined by statutes and regulation. (Immigration and Nationality Act § 101(b)(5) and 8 Code of Federal Regulations §286.1).

 

Q: Why was the "contiguous territories or adjacent islands" added to the definition of "closed loop" for modified processing of cruise passengers?A: The modified processing of cruise passengers includes utilizing the I-94W issued as a multiple use document for the readmission of VWP visitors after departure to contiguous territory or adjacent islands. See 8 C.F.R. § 217.3(b). Q: Which definition is applicable to the Electronic Travel Authorization (ESTA) process for closed loop cruises?A: It has been determined that the requirement for verification of an ESTA authorization is not required for cruiseitineraries meeting the definition of closed loop, as utilized for the modified processing of cruise passengers.

 

http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/travel/inspections_carriers_facilities/closed_loop_faq.xml

[jessemon]

I just don't understand why people don't get a passport anyways. I've used one for over thirty years and never been to a country where I needed to use it. But when going to Mexico, the Caribbean or Canada it is much easier at customs when returning or entering another country...

I say pony up the $79 and git-er-dun........

[CruzMar24]

A passport saves you a lot of trouble. Note: this in OP's case you might be on a closed loop cruise. However, remember, each foreign port of call (including bahamas, mexico, and most of carribbean islands) is not the US Gov. and therefore could care less about your birth certificate and state driver's license. To them it is crap. If you are in trouble or an emergency at the non-US ports of call, A passport on your person in a safe place is the only thing that can help you at the U.S. embassy and with local officials. Then of course, there is the reason of medical purposes as other posters have suggested and not being able to fly home, etc.

 

Also, Even during a normal no problem closed loop trip a passport will greatly expedite and speed up your return into the country, while not having a passport might subject to further questioning, examining etc.

 

Remember, ultimately you are traveling to other foreign countries even on closed loop cruises and while at those countries I would want to be as safe and as protected by the US goverment as possible with a passport: the only officially recognized and accepted travel document by the entire world.

[beach410]

Let me get this clear, its not for me, we have our passports, and its not just $100, it would be $400 for their family. I suggested that it was good to have it and Carnival recommends it, however just letting him know that IT IS NOT REQUIRED as Carnival implied to him that it was.

 

I have also read that they do make exceptions in case of emergencies for people traveling to the carribean on cruises who had to fly back to the US and didnt have passports.

 

This will be their first real vacation as a family in probably the 20 + years they have been together, they simply could not afford to vacation before.

[CruzVinnieCruz]

Let me get this clear, its not for me, we have our passports, and its not just $100, it would be $400 for their family. I suggested that it was good to have it and Carnival recommends it, however just letting him know that IT IS NOT REQUIRED as Carnival implied to him that it was.

 

I have also read that they do make exceptions in case of emergencies for people traveling to the carribean on cruises who had to fly back to the US and didnt have passports.

 

This will be their first real vacation as a family in probably the 20 + years they have been together, they simply could not afford to vacation before.

 

You will get many opinions here on why you should have a passport but for the exact reason you just posted is why the exemption for closed looped cruising was put there in the first place. It was a matter of economics and Caribbean countries that cruise ships visit each year petitioned the U.S. for the exception. They were afraid that families would spend their vacation monies other ways if they had to pony up $400 or more just to step on board the ship.

 

Remember thousands of cruise passengers each week take closed looped cruises with just a birth certificate and government id. Just like thousands of passengers cruise without cruise insurance a week. These two topics can be debated without end.

 

The answer is they will not need a passport for the cruise. Now it is up to them to decide whether to get them or not. In either case have a great cruise:)

[HawaiiFiveOh]

As I am reading all of this, an image popped into my head of all the postings of the "ship runners". You know those people that make up a portion of almost any cruise. The ones that for reasons too numerous to mention, are running to catch the ship as it is sailing away. I wonder if the ones that just sit there and cry are crying because they don't have a passport to get them home??? :p

 

Honestly, if you have a passport, take it. If you don't and can't afford or have not enough time to get one before your cruise. BE VERY CAREFUL. Do not miss the ship at the port of call, do not do any shore excursions or if you do make sure you are well padded so that nothing can happen to you. ;)

 

Get one for the future. Hopefully you will enjoy your cruise so much that you will become addicted to cruising and then you will have your passport for future options.

 

Above all else, use common sense. DO NOT BE LATE getting back to the ship. REMEMBER Ship time may be different from the time that is posted at places at the port of call (bars etc.). Take a watch that does not automatically change to the time that is in the current area that you are in. Get back to the ship at least an hour before it sails. That way you can have choice viewing for watching the people that do not come onto CC to learn all that they can (and then some) about cruising, make that infamous run for the ship. :o

 

PS: Have fun regardless. This is an adventure.

[lizardhowson]

Remember thousands of cruise passengers each week take closed looped cruises with just a birth certificate and government id. Just like thousands of passengers cruise without cruise insurance a week. These two topics can be debated without end.

 

Very well said.... ;)

[L2J]

What do you wanna bet, someone will post the Carnival FAQ again in this thread..... (which we all know supersedes Homeland Security....NOT )

 

As you said, round & round......

 

My PVP told me....so it must be true. I read it on CC...so it must be true.:rolleyes:

 

JMO but a little common sense goes a long LONG way.

 

Oh...get the passport.

[lostinohio]

I just wanted to say that if you do decide to get a passport they are coming back very quickly right now. We applied for our passport on Friday, Febuary 13th and received it back 10 days later on Monday, Feb 23rd. This was using standard service. I was surprised it was so quick. It still isn't even showing up on the travel.state.gov website as being processed yet.

[beach410]

As I am reading all of this, an image popped into my head of all the postings of the "ship runners". You know those people that make up a portion of almost any cruise. The ones that for reasons too numerous to mention, are running to catch the ship as it is sailing away. I wonder if the ones that just sit there and cry are crying because they don't have a passport to get them home??? :p

 

Honestly, if you have a passport, take it. If you don't and can't afford or have not enough time to get one before your cruise. BE VERY CAREFUL. Do not miss the ship at the port of call, do not do any shore excursions or if you do make sure you are well padded so that nothing can happen to you. ;)

 

Get one for the future. Hopefully you will enjoy your cruise so much that you will become addicted to cruising and then you will have your passport for future options.

 

Above all else, use common sense. DO NOT BE LATE getting back to the ship. REMEMBER Ship time may be different from the time that is posted at places at the port of call (bars etc.). Take a watch that does not automatically change to the time that is in the current area that you are in. Get back to the ship at least an hour before it sails. That way you can have choice viewing for watching the people that do not come onto CC to learn all that they can (and then some) about cruising, make that infamous run for the ship. :o

 

PS: Have fun regardless. This is an adventure.

 

 

 

Maybe you didnt read my comments, but I have a passport, and I am very well aware of not missing the boat, as you can see below I am not new to this. I have never missed the boat even when traveling with BC's and I am sure my brother wont either, as he will be with us. But thanks anyway for your words of wisdom. My point here, since you missed it is that Carnival is giving out conflicting information, and I know they have done it before, but I was hoping someone would just simply confirm my findings from my research that Carnival's email response was just simply wrong, as some did reply, so thank you.

[old sole]

But it's best to read the FAQ on the closed-loop exemption. Notice that some ports such as Belize and Roatan are not included in continuous territories and adjacent islands. So per this would require a passport.

 

12/22/2008)A "closed loop" voyage or itinerary occurs when a vessel departs from a U.S. port or place and returns to the same U.S. port upon completion of the voyage. Initially, the definition of "closed loop" came from the Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative (WHTI) rule making process. Per the WHTI Land and Sea Final Rule, travelers on "closed loop" voyages are not subject to the same documentary requirements for entry to the United States as other travelers.

 

Q: Is this definition the same as what is being used for the modified processing of cruise passengers?A: No. The definition was further refined to be in compliance with our statute and regulations.

 

Q: What is the definition of closed loop in the context of modified processing of cruise passengers?A: Closed-loop cruises are defined as U.S. based cruises with itineraries that both originate and terminate in the United States, returning from contiguous territories or adjacent islands.

 

Q: What does contiguous territories or adjacent islands mean? A: Contiguous Territories are any country sharing a common boundary with the United States. Canada and Mexico are contiguous to the United States. Adjacent Islands as follows: Anguilla, Antigua, Aruba, Bahamas, Barbados, Barbuda, Bermuda, Bonaire, British Virgin Islands, Cayman Islands, Cuba, Curacao, Dominica, the Dominican Republic, Grenada, Guadeloupe, Haiti, Jamaica, Marie-Galantine, Martinique, Miquelon, Montserrat, Saba, Saint Barthelemy, Saint Christopher, Saint Eustatius, Saint Kitts-Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Maarten, Saint Martin, Saint Pierre, Saint Vincent and Grenadines, Trinidad and Tobago, Turks and Caicos Islands, and other British, French and Netherlands territory or possessions bordering on the Caribbean Sea.

 

Q: How was it determined that these locations are "Adjacent Islands" A: Adjacent Islands are defined by statutes and regulation. (Immigration and Nationality Act § 101(b)(5) and 8 Code of Federal Regulations §286.1).

 

Q: Why was the "contiguous territories or adjacent islands" added to the definition of "closed loop" for modified processing of cruise passengers?A: The modified processing of cruise passengers includes utilizing the I-94W issued as a multiple use document for the readmission of VWP visitors after departure to contiguous territory or adjacent islands. See 8 C.F.R. § 217.3(b). Q: Which definition is applicable to the Electronic Travel Authorization (ESTA) process for closed loop cruises?A: It has been determined that the requirement for verification of an ESTA authorization is not required for cruiseitineraries meeting the definition of closed loop, as utilized for the modified processing of cruise passengers.

 

http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/travel/inspections_carriers_facilities/closed_loop_faq.xml

 

I went to the source document, because I was sure your assertion about Belize and Roatan couldn't be correct. I read it the same way you do, and it comes from Homeland Security, and is dated less than two months ago, well after all the "final" rulemaking was completed. I can't find any holes in your interpretation.

 

This looks like a huge issue to me, treating some Western Caribbean itineraries differently than others. Also, the irony of favoring Cuba over Honduras and Belize is pretty striking.

[gjsmth]

I was told the other day when we booked the Glory in Aug. by a Carnival PVP that the govt pushed back/delayed the passport requirement. She said that their customer service dept. checked on this multiple times to verify. She did add that the trip needs to start and end in the US too. We plan on getting passports and suggest everyone one else should too, you never know...

[yogi2929]

It seems that you can do closed loop cruises without a passport IF the countries you are visiting do not require a passport of you.

 

http://www.dhs.gov/xtrvlsec/crossingborders/#0

 

I wouldn't want to be at the dock without a passport in case a country changes it's mind about about this. Countries have changed the rules with little or no notice at times.

[Minoushka]

In case of problems you should have a passport .What if you had to go to a country where passports were required due to a ship emergency .Do not take a chance .Get your passport .It should be good for 5 years

As someone pointed countries can change their rules at any time

Better be safe then sorry .

[alphakitty]

I was told the other day when we booked the Glory in Aug. by a Carnival PVP that the govt pushed back/delayed the passport requirement. She said that their customer service dept. checked on this multiple times to verify. She did add that the trip needs to start and end in the US too. We plan on getting passports and suggest everyone one else should too, you never know...

 

That's right ..you never know....you could win a contest......like when RCI called to say I was a finalist in the Name that Ship contest and we'd won a trip to England, leaving in a little less than 3 weeks....I was very, very glad to have a Passport already. :p:D

[beach410]

Again, I have my passport and its $400 more for my brother to get hem for his family, quite a lot to spend, especially since he never cruised before, doesnt know if he will like it and most likely wont be leaving the country again anytime soon. This is their first vacation in 20+ years they are taking due to lack of funds.

 

Its amazing the conflicting information I am still gettting, another Carnival rep insisted he will need the passport after June 1st and when I called back again, I was told no, them amended it for 2009.

 

I called with Homeland Security’ s passport information line directly and was told that information about closed loops cruises is correct, and it depends on where you are cruising to as that country may require that you have a passport, but she said if the Cruise Line tells you don’t need one then you don’t.

I called Carnival back and she said NO, we dont need a passport, I know I know, they are recommended in case of emergency because you cant fly back without one, but that even if you are going to Roatan and Belize after June 1st, you will not need one.

[Lady_831]

Again, I have my passport and its $400 more for my brother to get hem for his family, quite a lot to spend, especially since he never cruised before, doesnt know if he will like it and most likely wont be leaving the country again anytime soon.

 

It's amazing how many times you've had to repeat this and people still keep getting it wrong. I totally understand why your brother would not want to incur that extra expense if not necessary.

 

I would print out Carnival's policy and Homeland Security's policy and have your brother take it just in case he runs into another misinformed customer rep when checking in.

 

Good luck.

[beach410]

Great suggestion, thanks for the understanding, sometimes I feel like I am talking Chinese and it amazes me that the TA I booked with, even after supplying her the above info is still insisting he will need it.

[Cruise, J.D.]

I went to the source document, because I was sure your assertion about Belize and Roatan couldn't be correct. I read it the same way you do, and it comes from Homeland Security, and is dated less than two months ago, well after all the "final" rulemaking was completed. I can't find any holes in your interpretation.

 

This looks like a huge issue to me, treating some Western Caribbean itineraries differently than others. Also, the irony of favoring Cuba over Honduras and Belize is pretty striking.

 

I agree. This is a lurking issue with the closed-loop cruise exception. This document was released without any fanfare and is buried on the DHS website. Belize and Honduras are not "contiguous countries" and they are not "adjacent islands".

 

One poster on here thinks it does not apply to US citizens, but I'm not sure about that. The language of the document appears broad enough to cover all closed-loop cruises, no matter the passenger's status.

 

It doesn't favor Cuba though. It is generally unlawful for US citizens to engage in tourist travel to Cuba under other laws, so there was no reason to mention Cuba in that definition. You won't be seeing any closed-loop cruises to Cuba from the U.S unless those laws are changed.

[Slimpickins]

Look at Carnivals NEW FAQ, they fixed it. What do I win for posting it :D.

 

Quote and link: http://www.carnival.com/CMS/FAQs/New_Passport_Requirements.aspx

 

CRUISE TRAVEL

 

U.S. citizens traveling on cruises that begin and end in the same U.S. port must show proof of citizenship (such as an original or certified copy of a birth certificate) and a government-issued photo ID (such as a driver’s license). Effective June 1, 2009, U.S. citizens traveling on cruises that begin and end in different U.S. ports, or begin or end in a foreign port, must have a valid passport or recognized WHTI-compliant document. For a complete list of accepted documents, see http://www.travel.state.gov.

[Slimpickins]

I agree. This is a lurking issue with the closed-loop cruise exception. This document was released without any fanfare and is buried on the DHS website. Belize and Honduras are not "contiguous countries" and they are not "adjacent islands".

 

One poster on here thinks it does not apply to US citizens, but I'm not sure about that. The language of the document appears broad enough to cover all closed-loop cruises, no matter the passenger's status.

 

It doesn't favor Cuba though. It is generally unlawful for US citizens to engage in tourist travel to Cuba under other laws, so there was no reason to mention Cuba in that definition. You won't be seeing any closed-loop cruises to Cuba from the U.S unless those laws are changed.

 

I agree with you on those 2 ports. They seem to be the only 2 caribbean ports excluded under the newest document. Most docs about the closed loop exception came out around March, 2008. This new document came out in Dec., 2008. If I was going to either of those 2 ports(including Roatan), I would call DHS and get verification.

[Cruise, J.D.]

Look at Carnivals NEW FAQ, they fixed it. What do I win for posting it :D.

 

Quote and link: http://www.carnival.com/CMS/FAQs/New_Passport_Requirements.aspx

 

CRUISE TRAVEL

 

U.S. citizens traveling on cruises that begin and end in the same U.S. port must show proof of citizenship (such as an original or certified copy of a birth certificate) and a government-issued photo ID (such as a driver’s license). Effective June 1, 2009, U.S. citizens traveling on cruises that begin and end in different U.S. ports, or begin or end in a foreign port, must have a valid passport or recognized WHTI-compliant document. For a complete list of accepted documents, see www.travel.state.gov.

 

WOW!! They finally did it! Another nail in the coffin for those spreading misinformation.

[Thirsty Cruiser]

No you dont need a passport.

 

Just taks a note from your mommy stating who you are should be just fine and dandy. Those boogymen at homeland security wont have a problem with your note.

LMAO :D:D

 

 

 

weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

I am getting dizzy :(

 

]I just don't understand why people don't get a passport anyways.[/b] I've used one for over thirty years and never been to a country where I needed to use it. But when going to Mexico' date=' the Caribbean or Canada it is much easier at customs when returning or entering another country...

I say pony up the $79 and git-er-dun........[/quote']

Exactly. For what comes down to about 8 bucks a year (about 2 cents a day) you can skip all the worrying.

Also, not sure if the "card" is still available, but opt for the passport if you are doing this. Too many restrictions on the card.

[beach410]

LMAO :D:D

 

 

 

 

I am getting dizzy :(

 

 

Exactly. For what comes down to about 8 bucks a year (about 2 cents a day) you can skip all the worrying.

Also, not sure if the "card" is still available, but opt for the passport if you are doing this. Too many restrictions on the card.

 

Why do people think that $400 is a drop in the bucket? My brother is 50 and has never ever vacationed out of the country before, I think hes been camping once in Tenesse with his family. This is their first big vacation and may be his last, if he doesnt plan of traveling internationally again, $400 is a lot to spend if he doesnt NEED to.

[yst347]

I agree with you on those 2 ports. They seem to be the only 2 caribbean ports excluded under the newest document. Most docs about the closed loop exception came out around March, 2008. This new document came out in Dec., 2008. If I was going to either of those 2 ports(including Roatan), I would call DHS and get verification.

 

Wouldn't Limon Costa Rica and Colon Panama fall into this category also?