Just came back from a barf fest on the Volendam

[cruiserman79]

"spray every surface with some kind of disenfectant spray that is effective against noro virus"

 

Such as ?

 

Other than the almost inevitable bugs on third world biz trips (thankfully now in the past) I rarely get sick (touch wood) so I'm not fully up to date on current products.

 

Thanks

 

Spray-9 cleaner states Norovirus as one of the many things it kills, right on the label. We bought some at Canadian Tire.

[cruiserman79]

I totally agree with you suse. But when people have it in their minds that they have been wronged, there is nothing that could be said to change their minds.

 

Dismissing legitimate concerns is equally foolish IMHO. There is ample opportunity for both sides of each incident to provide facts and details. I sincerely hope that HAL plans on listening and working to improve conditions so that its customers can travel as safely as possible. It's much easier just to think that people with complaints are just busybodies making things up but usually when the detail and evidence is provided, there is something that needs to be explained.

[DanL]

Just off & flu was on it. Several letters from captain about flu in BC later "some " on ship.

 

See this about physician & wife on same cruise, 5/31

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=914907&page=14

[Chat Noir]

 

I don't mean to argue, as I really do appreciate your insight. I am refining my case and I think that refunding our money is the very least that could be considered. If we have to take it up with Health Canada or the CDC, then we may go down that route as well.

 

If you purchased travel insurance (as is highly recommend by the cruiselines and many cruisers) you should have absolutely no problem getting a refund if you have your medical record to prove the qurantine. :)

 

If you didn't purchase insurance, I'm not sure there's much you can do as the cruiselines do offer this optional service for this reason, among others.:(

 

I purchased insurance recent cruise, became ill, saw the doc, got the quarantine note and so far the insurance company has been extremely pleasant to deal with. I am expecting a good percentage of my fare (and my husband's fare) to be refunded shortly.

 

I wasn't one to purchase insurance until a family member needed emergency hospitalization just days before one cruise... lesson learned!

[PopPop3]

We cruised on the Volendam from June 1 to June 4.....got on at Skagway, off at Vancouver.

 

We were aware of a virus outbreak about halfway through our cruise, but it appeared to be under control. At no time did I or any of my tour party see anyone who was in obvious distress. Of course, they may have been leaning over or on the pot; but all the same, it seemed like all was fine.

 

We were on the Verandah deck and did not notice any uncleanliness of any sort. Our room was spotless the entire time we were on ship. The public areas were very clean, as well.

 

One can look for, and find, anything one wants to find....including fault. It's unfortunate that the OP was the victim of the virus, but to hold HAL ultimately accountable is unfair, in my estimation. From everything I observed and experienced, the ship was very clean.

 

This was my first cruise, though, so my baseline for cleanliness was not established. I only know what I saw.....

[sportsmum]

Hi Cruiserman- do you mind me asking what room number you had? I am just curious since I will be on the ship in July!

[knitlady037]

Dismissing legitimate concerns is equally foolish IMHO. There is ample opportunity for both sides of each incident to provide facts and details. I sincerely hope that HAL plans on listening and working to improve conditions so that its customers can travel as safely as possible. It's much easier just to think that people with complaints are just busybodies making things up but usually when the detail and evidence is provided, there is something that needs to be explained.

In my opinion, you really haven't gone into the kind of detail you should have. You have ranted about not seeing code red conditions, but if you were quarantined to your room, you wouldn't see them.No mention was made of mandatory quarantining by the ships doctor. I sailed under code red conditions and was clearly told that if we became sick to see the ships doctor have sickness confirmed and we would be issued credit for the days we were quarantined. Also there were written notices given every day and many announcements daily about hand washing and trying to stay healthy. Many people mingled with the other passengers when they were sick. That kind of attitude helps spread any kind of disease no matter how hard people work to clean the ships. No one can say for sure that you contracted the virus from the ship or your local supermarket so I don't feel you deserve a full refund for your cruise. As stated before, if you had travel insurance and followed procedure, you will be reimbursed for your quarantined time.

[calmpets]

I've been researching different cruiselines for an Alaska sailing in 2010, and this post was my first read on the HAL threads. My family always sails on DCL, and let me tell you, they are FORCEFUL with the sanitizing wipes. :D My dad sailed on Carnival once, and three out of four of his party were sick by the time they got off the ship. After that he had a whole new appreciation for Disney's cleanliness standards!

[Jeal]

cruiserman - I am glad your family is recovering. I have never had noro but two people in our group got noro on our last HAL cruise in March. Both of them said that they were sicker than they ever had been before (one of them required intravenous fluids because of severe dehydration) and that it was by far the worst they had ever felt. But, I am wondering if you actually had noro. Both of them also said that they were told that usually only one person in the cabin gets it - I don't know if that is true or not since I have absolutely no medical training at all. But, if it is true, perhaps your family had something other than noro - just a thought especially because of how sick the baby was.

[SonomaDriver]

cruiserman79-As someone who got whacked with noro on my Alaska cruise last month, I sympathize. My experience on Westerdam was much much different from yours. AFAIK, I was the only case on board; with symptoms thankfully lasting only eight hours. The "sanitation" team wiped down every surface in the cabin, switched out all linens and wiped down the windows with disinfectant, all under the gaze of the Chief Steward.

 

We've sailed twice, both with HAL. The ships have been spotless.

 

All that being said, I think what all of us are seeing is a couple of issues combining to bring about Noro:

 

1. All ships have even quicker turn around times with crews that are fewer in number but with more cabins to clean. Even in the Deluxe Veranda Suites/Penthouse Suites, the stewards went from 9 cabins/day to 30 according to staff on our last cruise.

 

2. Please correct me if I'm wrong but all of these hand sanitizers give folks a false sensse of cleanliness. They DON'T work on viruses! This leads to a related point, large numbers of people in close contact with many of them not (ewww) properly cleaning themselves if you know what I mean.

 

This is an issue throughout the industry (except perhaps the luxury lines). HAL is better than most at maintaining a clean ship but with lower staff levels and passengers who don't clean the way they should, Noro will likely be around.

[woody73]

 

2. Please correct me if I'm wrong but all of these hand sanitizers give folks a false sensse of cleanliness.

I agree. You use hand sanitizer before entering the dining room, then they hand you a menu that others have handled. Ewwww!

 

Woody

[SeaFlint]

We usually travel on QM2 but we have heard many good things about HAL and have liked the look of some of the ships we have seen, so I thought I'd scan posts to see what people think.

 

And, oh NO!

 

I am very sorry to hear of your troubles. And sorry to hear the staff and crew did not deal well with your situation.

 

On QM2 (Cunard) we were refunded in-full for every day (2) my wife was sick when she caught "The Virus" returning during our first voyage. This was partly because they want to keep customers. But it was also partly due to the fact that the control of this virus is indeed partly the responsibility of the line. 'Which is why there are hand sanitizers in the public spaces (and the crew spaces). They also went out of their way during the trip to bring her the best possible food, make sure everything was clean and made sure she was as well as she could be.

 

I do not think this is unique to Cunard. And I would think your situation is unique for HAL.

 

In any case, I would hope the line will not hesitate to refund the fare for each ill person for as long as they were ill. The rest - bad resopnse to the situation - you may simply have to avoid by not travelling on that ship (as opposed to that line, which has an excellent reputation, it seems) again.

 

I do hope your next trip is better!

 

Thanks for the reply,

 

Yes indeed I am angry, and I was am aware that people do indeed get sick on cruiselines. In fact, I was not complaining at all about being quarantined or even missing some of our cruise. The crux of my complaint is the conditions aboard this ship and the procedures that were clearly not followed by HAL. Even if they did all that the CDC demands when an outbreak occured, perhaps following the bare minimum of standards is NOT enough to comfort paying customers through horrendous discomfort that is clearly the result of their mismanagement.

 

Regarding the "Code Red". This was mentioned to myself and my family personally by the on board nurse, specifically that the ship was entering a Code Red status. He assured us that extra precautions pertaining to this would occur. This never happened. No notice of any outbreak was given until the captain's final address on the last afternoon of the cruise. This is unacceptable.

 

I don't mean to argue, as I really do appreciate your insight. I am refining my case and I think that refunding our money is the very least that could be considered. If we have to take it up with Health Canada or the CDC, then we may go down that route as well.

 

Again, I realize that gastrointeritis occurs. In fact, the reports are available on the CDC website for all lines and their vessels. The problem I have is that the attempt to warn us and maybe prevent some of the outbreak onboard was extremely minimal to nonexistant.

 

I may live to cruise again, but it won't be with HAL.

[4bolts]

One of the things that you mentioned was the pediolyte (sp) was expired and not restocked. THAT is an issue all on its own that every cruise ship needs to take note of. EXPIRED medication. BTW, was it still on their shelf?

 

When ever anyone becomes ill with severe gastro symptoms the first thing the doctor says is give them pediolyte. Perhaps this is something that anyone traveling with kids should take with them JIC.

[loty]

I'm also going on Volendam in July. But I have a different question, since I'll be flying over from Europe, well we all know how easy is to catch a virus onboard a plane. So is there any problem if u have a cold or something like that (just a running nose cause of ac), but you feel fine, or just take some cold/flu meds and u feel fine? I really don't want to miss a day or two on a cruise just because of a stupid cold...

[Chat Noir]

I'm also going on Volendam in July. But I have a different question, since I'll be flying over from Europe, well we all know how easy is to catch a virus onboard a plane. So is there any problem if u have a cold or something like that (just a running nose cause of ac), but you feel fine, or just take some cold/flu meds and u feel fine? I really don't want to miss a day or two on a cruise just because of a stupid cold...

 

If you have the cold, cover your mouth when you cough or sneeze, and not with your hand, use a disposable tissue once and then toss it, don't keep holding and 'twisting' it as some do. Same for a runny nose, use a tissue then toss it. Wash hands frequently. Just be aware that everything you touch could possibly contaminate others. I am not a fan of handkerchiefs... Maybe back in the day before Kleenex was invented, but not now. Yuck.

 

I agree that the sanitizers lead people to believe that handwashing isn't necessary. They should only be a supplement to good hygiene, not a replacement.

 

If you don't have the cold, and are trying to prevent, do everything possible to keep your immune system healthy prior to flying, including proper nutrition, quality vitamins, maybe some zinc supplements, etc. Short of wearing a mask, there is little you can do if someone sneezes or coughs on you, but you can limit some exposure again, by washing your hands thoroughly and frequently, don't touch public surfaces then your mouth, nose, eyes (mucous membranes) or eat without washing. Be aware of anyone who is coughing and sneezing and distance yourself.

 

Germs are everywhere, some good, some bad... I believe we can limit our exposure but we really can't live our lives in a bubble. Use common sense, good hygiene... and enjoy your trip. :)

[sizzle_sisters]

Just catching up on the threads, and wanted to remind people. In light of the current swine flu, nausea/vomiting doesn't necessarily have to be Norwalk. H1N1 can also be accompanied with N&V. So we shouldn't be so hasty to label symptoms with a disease until proven. Treatment can be so different, along with severity.

[suse]

True, and you don't have the swine flu unless you have a fever.

[suse]

Er, this whole thing has been rather disgusting.:eek:

[DAllenTCY]

I'll be open here, I just came upon this thread. I'm sorry you had such a terrible experience. I would like some clarification on one issue.

You stated "The Vancouver port staff went over and above their jobs to contact HAL, locate our luggage and even help us transport. HAL was nowhere to be seen at this point".

Do you not think that the shoreside staff works for HAL as well? My experience has always been that the shoreside staff is there to help every passenger and that they try extremely hard to locate misplaced luggage...and they, too are HAL employees....even if wearing Worldwide Shore Services outfits.

David

[Sir PMP]

Our New Zealand/Australia cruise on the Volendam last fall spent 12 of 14 days in Code Red. The virus was brought on board by passengers on Qantas flight 26 the day we boarded. I was impressed that they had traced it down to the very flight from which the virus had originated.

 

That is 100% correct, we were on the cruise from L.A. to Auckland and got off right before this cruise.

[cruiserman79]

In my opinion, you really haven't gone into the kind of detail you should have. You have ranted about not seeing code red conditions, but if you were quarantined to your room, you wouldn't see them.No mention was made of mandatory quarantining by the ships doctor. I sailed under code red conditions and was clearly told that if we became sick to see the ships doctor have sickness confirmed and we would be issued credit for the days we were quarantined. Also there were written notices given every day and many announcements daily about hand washing and trying to stay healthy. Many people mingled with the other passengers when they were sick. That kind of attitude helps spread any kind of disease no matter how hard people work to clean the ships. No one can say for sure that you contracted the virus from the ship or your local supermarket so I don't feel you deserve a full refund for your cruise. As stated before, if you had travel insurance and followed procedure, you will be reimbursed for your quarantined time.

 

Hello,

 

I really appreciate your response but I feel that I won't be making much of an impression on you with my events. If I am leaving out detail somewhere then I apologize but I feel that I raised some legitimate issues. I only wish that we had some of the same positive experiences that you had during similar circumstances on your previous dealings with HAL. I know for a fact that Code Red procedures were not taken and that either the ship's medical staff was incorrect or that it was decided to not go to Code Red for whatever reason. I still fail to see how it is not a clear route to take, as everything is clearly regulated by the CDC. I have no idea why this was all left to rumour and innuendo on behalf of the medical staff.

 

As I have stated over and over again here, I do understand that illness is relatively common place on cruise ships. My complaints revolve around the lack of cleanliness on the ship (for which I have photos of), and faults with HAL's customer service on numerous events that took place during our cruise.

 

I appreciate your opinion that we do not "deserve" a refund, but that will be left to the powers that be. I really do wish you all the best on your future cruises with HAL and sincerely hope that your experiences continue to meet your expectations. Personally, the trust factor with Holland America Line has--for me--been severely damaged. However they choose to deal with my situation will either worsen or better my opinion of the company.

 

As of tonight, my older daughter is STILL ill with diahrea and occasional vomiting and we are getting very concerned. We are in close contact with our doctor and have some tests currently underway to find out what is going on with her. This cruise, unfortunately, has been the gift that keeps on giving. I have also not heard anything from HAL corporate aside from the form letter I mentioned previously.

 

Thanks again, and best wishes. I think we may have to agree to disagree, however.

[cruiserman79]

I'll be open here, I just came upon this thread. I'm sorry you had such a terrible experience. I would like some clarification on one issue.

You stated "The Vancouver port staff went over and above their jobs to contact HAL, locate our luggage and even help us transport. HAL was nowhere to be seen at this point".

Do you not think that the shoreside staff works for HAL as well? My experience has always been that the shoreside staff is there to help every passenger and that they try extremely hard to locate misplaced luggage...and they, too are HAL employees....even if wearing Worldwide Shore Services outfits.

David

 

Thanks for your reply,

 

I may indeed be incorrect on my assumption based on their ambiguous uniforms. If they are indeed HAL employees based in in Vancouver then they officially receive a thumbs-up from me for diffusing the situation passed on by their counterparts on the ship.

 

But, anyway you slice it, the whole thing was a confused mess with a clear lack of communication. Normally we wouldn't have minded as much but we all really needed to get to the hospital at that point.

 

I will be sure to compliment their service in this aspect when (if) the communication opens up with HAL corporate.

 

Thanks again

[cruiserman79]

Just catching up on the threads, and wanted to remind people. In light of the current swine flu, nausea/vomiting doesn't necessarily have to be Norwalk. H1N1 can also be accompanied with N&V. So we shouldn't be so hasty to label symptoms with a disease until proven. Treatment can be so different, along with severity.

 

Very good point, here. This is more or less how I felt when we were being seen by the ship's doctor. I would have very much appreciated a stool sample being taken or some effort being made other than "well, she looks okay." (which is literally what was said). Statistically speaking, while looking at the CDC website you can hazard a guess that it is most likely norovirus.

 

But of course, we don't know anything without samples being taken and analyzed.

 

Thanks.

[cruiserman79]

One of the things that you mentioned was the pediolyte (sp) was expired and not restocked. THAT is an issue all on its own that every cruise ship needs to take note of. EXPIRED medication. BTW, was it still on their shelf?

 

When ever anyone becomes ill with severe gastro symptoms the first thing the doctor says is give them pediolyte. Perhaps this is something that anyone traveling with kids should take with them JIC.

 

This is one of my major gripes, actually. I believe it was extremely foolish for them to admit that it had expired and they didn't replenish it. I never at any point requested Pedialyte, it was the nurse that stated that they would "normally" give it under these circumstances. It was stated that they had thrown it away because it had expired and that they "never got any more in." Unacceptable.

 

Was Pedialyte the magic cureall for our baby's symptoms? No. But it would have been nice to at least try it and it was infuriating to hear that their negligence was admitted at the worst possible time. Even more frustrating was the fact that no effort at all was made to replenish the stock at port or by whatever means necessary. We're dealing with an infant here, lets do SOMETHING to at least look like we care.

[cruiserman79]

We usually travel on QM2 but we have heard many good things about HAL and have liked the look of some of the ships we have seen, so I thought I'd scan posts to see what people think.

 

And, oh NO!

 

I am very sorry to hear of your troubles. And sorry to hear the staff and crew did not deal well with your situation.

 

On QM2 (Cunard) we were refunded in-full for every day (2) my wife was sick when she caught "The Virus" returning during our first voyage. This was partly because they want to keep customers. But it was also partly due to the fact that the control of this virus is indeed partly the responsibility of the line. 'Which is why there are hand sanitizers in the public spaces (and the crew spaces). They also went out of their way during the trip to bring her the best possible food, make sure everything was clean and made sure she was as well as she could be.

 

I do not think this is unique to Cunard. And I would think your situation is unique for HAL.

 

In any case, I would hope the line will not hesitate to refund the fare for each ill person for as long as they were ill. The rest - bad resopnse to the situation - you may simply have to avoid by not travelling on that ship (as opposed to that line, which has an excellent reputation, it seems) again.

 

I do hope your next trip is better!

 

Thank you so much for your kind words,

 

I did very much the same thing as you are doing now by scanning the forums. You will clearly find both good experiences and bad experiences with a wide range of fact and opinion. Honestly, and this is only my opinion, I feel that HAL is not the cruise line that they used to be. I very much hope that my experience on the Volendam was an isolated incident and no one else will ever go through what we did on HAL's ships. I very much mean that. You will find those here who are very proud of their previous sailings and who are clearly satisfied with Holland America Line, and I think that is great. I have tried to be objective and factual but I am of course very much upset as well.

 

I think that what we witnessed was inexcusable and largely indefensible but there are many others here who have very positive stories to tell as well. I cannot say that WE dealt with on THIS cruise went out of their way to help us. I have also been clear here in my opinion that the ship was clearly unsanitary it is my opinion that enough was not done to comfort us when we were in need. Now it is up to HAL to address and correct these complaints as any responsible company would when customers have complaints.

 

I really hope my situation is unique as you say, although I am starting to be a little more doubtful in that hope. I don't know how anyone could really argue that we shouldn't be compensated but we will have to see where it goes. Personally, if I were on their side of the complaint at this point, I would make absolutely sure to address it in a meaningful and quick manner. I'm getting the feeling this is not going to be the case.

 

From 20/20 hindsight, the mistake I made was being too trusting based on reputation and opinion from travel agents and the like. On any cruise line you choose, make sure you are prepared and that you are satisfied with the sanitation onboard after a thorough checkover. Reputation is one of those things that can come and go. This is all the more reason to deal with complaints fairly and to make changes where necessary. Anyone in [a successful] business pretty much feels the same. I think it would be great if HAL even agreed with some of what I have raised and made some improvements. I fear that they will try the same tired old corporate tactics of form letter -- deny problem / offer discount -- ignore. I hope I am wrong.

 

Thanks again