CCL leaves family over medical issue

[G'ma]

Obviously we don't know the whole story - the news article didn't even get her original procedure right. You don't TREAT a cardiac ablation, you GET an ablation, usually to treat an aberrant electrical pathway.

 

It sounds like we need to be questioning Carnival about their choice of medical providers. If they hire incompetent doctors (because they work cheap after they're fired from land based medical practices) to work on the ships, then everyone that cruises with them is in danger.

 

It also sounds like Carnival and the doctor were simply playing CYA, at the expense of the patient.

 

It's not CYA. It's in the terms and conditions......

 

2. NATURE OF CRUISE AND GUEST’S OBLIGATIONS

(a) The Guest admits a full understanding of the character of the Vessel and assumes all risks incident to travel and transportation and handling of Guests and cargo. The Vessel may or may not carry a ship’s physician or other medical personnel at the election of Carnival. While at sea or in port the availability of medical care may be limited or delayed. Guest acknowledges that all or part of their voyage may be in areas where medical care and evacuation may not be available. Guest agrees to indemnify and reimburse Carnival in the event Carnival elects to advance the cost of emergency medical care, including medical care provided ashore as well as transportation and/or lodging in connection therewith.

 

And:

 

b) Carnival and the Master each reserves the right to refuse passage, disembark or confine to a stateroom any Guest whose physical or mental condition, or behavior would be considered in the sole opinion of the Captain and/or the ship's physician to constitute a risk to the Guest's own well-being or that of any other Guest or crew member. Guest understands and acknowledges that in addition to the limitations on medical care described in Clause 2 (a), prenatal and early infant care, in particular, may require specialized diagnostic facilities and/or treatment that are not obtainable during the cruise on board the ship and/or ashore in ports of call.

[LemurCat]

HER physician wasn't there.

 

So what? My physicians routinely give me treatment plans that don't require me seeing them. As long as they know what the issue is and don't have to write a prescription this isn't unusual.

 

He recommended ice packs......those are in the medical facilities.

 

Because ... you know ... ice isn't easily accessible anywhere on a cruise ship ...

 

The ship's doctor is doing what he's supposed to do; making sure she sees a physician ashore where they have the medical facilities to handle these types of situations.... The ship doesn't.

 

I completely agree with you there.

 

As for why Carnival's medical staff was involved? Who do you think would be sued if the woman stayed on board and her medical condition deteriorated or she had a stroke' date=' etc.?[/quote']

 

The physician who cleared her to travel so soon after cardiac surgery. A judge would have no trouble throwing out a suit against Carnival because they can only be responsible for medical conditions they have pre-existing knowledge of. Carnival didn't cause her condition to deteriorate. Carnival can't be sued for people having strokes on their ships ... if they could be sued for heart attacks and strokes that happened while on ship, they would have gotten out of the Alaska cruises long ago. ;)

 

Better question ... what if the woman slapped a bandage on it, applied an icepack made from ice from her cabin in a plastic bag and nothing happened?

 

My point is this ... to blame Carnival for being left behind is ridiculous. She should look at her own decisions and figure out where things went sideways from there.

[SmogMonster]

I tend not to have a whole lot of sympathy for people who fail to protect themselves with travel insurance. However, in this case, it is very clear that Carnival was in the wrong and needs to reimburse these folks and give them another cruise. Come on CCL, step up to the plate!

 

Why is Carnival in the wrong? A medical doctor contacted the ship with his diagnosis and apparently stated she needed to be hospitalized. Put yourself in Carnival's place. What if they had said "we disagree with the doctor who examined her and will let her back on the ship". Then something happens and she gets worse or , heaven forbid, dies. I bet the family would definitely go for a lawsuite then. The family had an opportunity to buy travel insurance. This is what travel insurance is for. They should have done so but chose not to. I am not a carnival cheerleader and in fact have cruised RCCL more than Carnival so I am not one of those who gets bent out of shape anytime Carnival gets accused of poor quality or service or whatever. I just dont see any problem with what they did.

[PaulMedik]

Because ... you know ... ice isn't easily accessible anywhere on a cruise ship ...

.

 

 

LemurCat,

 

My ribs are hurting! Stop it! :D

[fireofficer5]

Don't ever go to the ships butc,,,, er, doctor.

[klmorg]

Don't ever go to the ships butc,,,, er, doctor.

 

Hey now... we have nothing but PRAISE for the infirmary doc on the Liberty who helped save my DH after a heart attack onboard. The infirmary doc and nurse were FABULOUS in our experience. The hospitals/doctors he saw after the "event" all had praise for the ship's doctor and the care he received there... said they saved his life.

 

BTW... there was no cardiologist on the island in Grand Cayman when we had to debark there. That's why they had to air ambulance him to Miami for surgery. Cayman Islands Hospital was very decent though.

[renalrn]

But... HER physician said she was fine. And obviously, her physician was right.

 

"Her cardiologist at JFK hospital told the couple not to worry, to put an ice pack on it and enjoy their trip. The ship's physician though wanted Judy to see a doctor in the Cayman Islands, where the boat was docked for the second day of the trip."

 

Why would Carnival overrule the physician who treated her?

 

And, good luck with the lawsuit in a foreign country.

How can any physician assess anyone accurately from 2,000 miles away?

I'd go with the MD who is seeing her at the moment, physical condition can change in an instant.

[salty dingo]

This is not the cruise line's issue. Their doctor erred on the side of caution. With a bleeding artery and a recent heart procedure, that was a good idea to have her checked out in a real hospital. The article does not say when the JFK doctor was consulted; regardless, that doctor could not have examined the patient who was thousands of mile away.

 

A Caymans doctor called and said a passenger in his care was too ill to cruise. What was Carnival supposed to do? Say "sorry Mr. Physician, but we disregard your medical advice."? And then the husband and kids wanted to stay with the ill passenger.

 

The passengers obviously erred by not getting insurance. And the press loves to play up a story like "poor vacationer versus big heartless corporation."

 

Sounds to me the real culprit is not Carnival, but the doctor in the Caymans. Who knows why he would want to keep the patient for a week or more over that. Whatever - that's where the article should have placed blame. Instead, it unfairly blamed the cruise line who only did exactly what it should have done - followed a doctor's advice.

[salty dingo]

You should also consider the source of the news story - a local television station. This was not the AP or some publication where an editor checks facts. It was just one reporter's opinion. And a lopsided one at that!

[BaseballMomof4]

The lesson here is stay away from the ships doctor.

[JerseyJaguar]

My dad has a pacemaker and hasn't had any major surgery in years. He and my mother go on two or three cruises a year and they would never travel without insurance because of their age, their health, his heart. It makes no sense to skimp on insurance when you fall in all those categories.

 

Hope it's a lesson to all older couples who think it can't happen to them. My folks have never needed to apply the insurance, but they have one less worry in case anything goes wrong.

[LemurCat]

The lesson here is stay away from the ships doctor.

 

Or buy insurance.

 

Or don't try to cruise with an open incision from a recent cardiac procedure.

 

Or buy insurance.

[klmorg]

The lesson here is stay away from the ships doctor.

 

 

Not. I think you've missed some key points.

[SmogMonster]

The lesson here is stay away from the ships doctor.

 

No thats not the lesson here! The problem is not with the ships doctor. He/she did exactly was every other consciencous doctor would do. Send the patient to a facility more qualified to deal with the issue.

I see three lessons here..

1. buy insurance

2. buy insurance

3. buy insurance.

[kat228]

Actually, this article is rather timely. We were just debating about travel insurance and thought the only reason we'd need it would be for a weather delay from flying in wintertime. But I'm rather accident prone... Healthy, but accident prone. (My boyfriend still makes fun of me for falling down the stairs.)

 

So let's say we didn't get the insurance, I was on the boat, fell down the stairs ('cause I'd never do that) and break my ankle. The ship doctor does what he can, but says that when we get to Grand Cayman, I need to see a doctor there. They have to keep me past when the boat is due to leave port. I miss the boat because it's in my best interest to stay at that doctor. Do I blame Carnival? No. I blame my own clumsiness and I learn a very pricey lesson: get travel insurance next time. I'm 24. Why can I figure that out and this couple can't?

 

...Not to mention the above scenario is based on me being clumsy...not on having heart surgery right before a cruise. If I were having surgery, it would be a no-brainer. C'mon...no sympathy. Sympathy if they were someone on here saying it was important to get insurance because this can happen to you and they weren't looking for something for nothing? Then yes. But whining because they didn't take the proper steps to protect themselves? Unexcusable.

[Disney Debbie]

I agree that they should have gotten insurance and it really isn't Carnival's fault but wanted to correct something that keeps getting repeated. She did not have the procedure the day before the cruise - it was weeks before the cruise. So I don't fault them for going on the cruise - usually a procedure like that - which going up through the artery is similar to a heart cath - you're pretty much over it in a week or so. It's not the same as heart surgery - which takes months to recuperate from.

 

HOWEVER - because of that - the fact that it was bleeding a few weeks after the procedure is even more bothersome in my opinion - it should have been pretty much healed by then. We always get travel insurance for 2 reasons - 1) I'm a cancer survivor and if something else comes up I don't want to have to worry about that and 2) my husband has very elderly parents and we need to consider that we might have an emergency with them. This family took a gamble - and they lost.

[Illinoisgal]

Sad for them but hardly Carnival's fault

 

if she is that unwell, why not get insurance?? getting that procedure done a day before the cruise sounds really stupid especially knowing they didn't have insurance

 

what if she had not gone to the doctor/hospital and bled to death ? then they would sue Carnival over that??

 

Carnival has to draw the line somewhere...people need to buy insurance or else just realize that their "emergency" is their own problem

 

the article said a few weeks before the cruise not the day before

 

 

I too was wondering why it would be bleeding weeks after. I think the reporter got his info messed up. On a good note I just bought travel insurance today for our upcoming cruise

[Illinoisgal]

ps that article has the reporters email address I vote with email him and update him with some info

[GottaLuvCruising]

Why is Carnival in the wrong? A medical doctor contacted the ship with his diagnosis and apparently stated she needed to be hospitalized. Put yourself in Carnival's place. What if they had said "we disagree with the doctor who examined her and will let her back on the ship". Then something happens and she gets worse or , heaven forbid, dies. I bet the family would definitely go for a lawsuite then. The family had an opportunity to buy travel insurance. This is what travel insurance is for. They should have done so but chose not to. I am not a carnival cheerleader and in fact have cruised RCCL more than Carnival so I am not one of those who gets bent out of shape anytime Carnival gets accused of poor quality or service or whatever. I just dont see any problem with what they did.

 

According to the news article (which may or may not be factual or complete), the "doctor" that suggested hospitalization did so prior to actually examining the guest. Her own physician, who was supposedly aware of the situation, said the guest was fine continue traveling. I'm wondering why the guest went to the ship's doctor in the first place (and it sounds like they are sorry they did). But if they did consult with the ship's doctor, I guess they are stuck with the consequences. I've reconsidered my initial conclusion.

[nlb1050]

Illinoisgal

 

I followed your advice and have emailed Jamie, the reporter. This station is one of my local stations so I will see if he says anything.

 

And Disney Debbie I agree that if it really has been a few weeks why is it bleeding. A very good point.

[mistshar]

Another thing that some have missed in the article is the bleeding was not coming from her heart. It was from her leg which would not be as serious as if it were coming from around her chest area. It is my understanding that sometimes those leg incisions are hard to get healed up so that is probably not unusual.

[sam1148]

Don't ever go to the ships butc,,,, er, doctor.

 

In the past I've never seen a post that said "I went to the ships doctor and everything was great service and wonderful outcome". (except for getting some motion sickness pills for free). We'll hear about great food, MDR, etc. But I don't think I've ever seen anyone praise the ship's doctor.

[klmorg]

In the past I've never seen a post that said "I went to the ships doctor and everything was great service and wonderful outcome". (except for getting some motion sickness pills for free). We'll hear about great food, MDR, etc. But I don't think I've ever seen anyone praise the ship's doctor.

 

Go back & read my post (#31). :)

[lennel]

But... HER physician said she was fine. And obviously, her physician was right.

 

"Her cardiologist at JFK hospital told the couple not to worry, to put an ice pack on it and enjoy their trip. The ship's physician though wanted Judy to see a doctor in the Cayman Islands, where the boat was docked for the second day of the trip."

 

Why would Carnival overrule the physician who treated her?

 

And, good luck with the lawsuit in a foreign country.

 

What was the reason that she saw the Carnival Doctor? If all was well she had no reason to see him unless she started bleeding again. Also I agree If they had insurance they would have been fine, and maybe should have had a second opinion befrore boarding the ship in the first place.

[Illinoisgal]

Illinoisgal

 

I followed your advice and have emailed Jamie, the reporter. This station is one of my local stations so I will see if he says anything.

 

And Disney Debbie I agree that if it really has been a few weeks why is it bleeding. A very good point.

 

Maybe he will respond since you are local. LEt me know, Im interested in what he has to say :) Just seems way fishy to me.