Loreni

I hear the cruise lines want new, younger customers.  My understanding is that many young people are deciding to only do business with companies that they consider to be socially responsible or environmentally responsible...sometimes both.  The magic pipe and other environmental incidents probably will discourage some of the potential young customers from cruising.  What will this do?  Sometimes doing the right thing is also the smart business move at least longterm.  I am very disappointed in what appears to be a lack of leadership on the part of Princess during this crisis.  No reasonable person would blame Princess for the existence of the Coronavirus.  But we do want to be assured that Princess is doing what is best for the passengers during this unprecedented health crisis.  

Not just Seabourne.  A number of luxury cruise lines have done this, I believe.  Why are they doing this?  Isn’t it terribly unfair to their other passengers who bought CFAR insurance.  Yet, the luxury companies are doing this.  Why?  I guess they think it is a good business decision.  Apparently Princess does not think so.  Why would it be a good business decision to treat the luxury market one way and the mass market another way?  is it to prevent immediate cancellations and encourage bookings in the hope that this virus will soon have a treatment.
 

Or Could it be that they think luxury consumers have more options in how they travel, so they need to be treated with more respect, compassion, and decency.  We all have options.

I just read one of the linked stories and while it had a number of inaccuracies, it stated that the captain did not inform the passengers until FIVE HOURS after the Governor’s new conference.  If this is true, it is inexplicable.  Why try to keep passengers in the dark. People will find out anyway.  If I were on board, I would have liked to have known ASAP so I could be even more aware of hand washing.  Also, if I was coughing I would be less likely to assume it was just the common cruise crud cold.  And Given questions about whether the virus spread through the Diamond Princesses ventilation system, I might have decided to spend more time in the fresh air of the open decks and avoided my cabin.

Some report that the theater shows were cancelled, but the casino remained open.  Why?  The casino might even be a riskier place with everyone touching slot machines, cards and chips...or were these all being continuously disinfected.

I agree that improving the ventilation won’t prevent virus transmission.  But could it reduce it in a meaningful way?  Another way to ask would be: is there anything at all that can be done to significantly reduce the current rate of virus transmission on cruise ships?  If the answer is “no” what does this mean for passengers?  If the answer is “yes” or “maybe” then shouldn’t it be investigated and, if feasible, implemented.  If the ships will be empty anyway, why not take the opportunity to make real improvements.

I read an article from a Purdue professor saying, unlike planes, cruise ship ventilation systems don’t filter viruses.

I don’t really want to stop cruising, but I also don’t want to get sick....even with just the regular flu.  So I was researching online and shopping for a portable air purifier that kills viruses.  Apparently they exist and the use UV light.  I also found an article saying that most people wouldn’t even accept a free cruise right now.  With all the cancellations form both the passengers and Princess, the ships may end up empty anyway.  This could be an opportunity to make some improvements to the ventilation system.  

If you can not understand why this is different, I doubt anyone can explain it to you.

The Grand Princess is returning to SF early so that Princess can cooperate with the CDC investigation and they still won’t let people cancel with penalty?

Does this mean that the patient had the Coronavirus while he was aboard the Grand Princess.  If so, does this speak to the effectiveness of the pre cruise screening.  How about the hand washing? Maybe lessons were learned from the Diamond and that is why even more Grand Princess passengers are not sick.  I still have concerns about the air filters on the ships.  Is it possible to bring your own portable air filter...the ones that kill viruses?

This is a different decision.  We had this very discussion before leaving on our February cruise right before news broke of the Diamond quarantine, but just after news of a ship being quarantined in Italy.  We decided the disappointment of canceling would crushing and maybe canceling would be overreacting.  
 

Frankly, in retrospect, perhaps we should have canceled.  The cruise was not as carefree and relaxing as usual.  The internet speed has improved and I found myself checking for news of the Diamond everyday.  We were not allowed to go ashore at two of our scheduled ports, but good substitutions were provided. I wasn’t the only one checking the internet for info on the Diamond.  I saw others doing so at the IC.  And people were talking about it.  And every time someone coughed, which was often, it crossed my mind.  We still had a nice cruise, but not as nice as usual.  
 

If you decide to cancel, maybe you can take the sting out of it by planning a much bigger and better cruise for the future when things have settled down.  The Tahiti cruise is a fantastic cruise.

 I agree with others, talk to your doctor.  if you cancel, Maybe you can treat yourself to something else in the meanwhile.  Many people say one derives more happiness from money spent on experiences rather than items...but maybe there is some item you could treat yourself to.  Whatever you decide, we wish you the best.

Just read that the cruise industry is beginning to relax its cancellation policies.  So far Princess is not listed as one of the companies doing so, and I’m not sure the changes announced would have helped the OP.  But the good news is much of the industry is  beginning to accept that this is not a normal situation.  So there is hope that more cruise lines will follow suit.

After an unfortunate incident where Princess would not let me cancel without penalty just 12 hours after I booked directly with them...even though they had not yet put the charge through and they had offered me a 24-hour courtesy hold that I foolishly declined....I always buy their CFAR insurance and I have used it.  There are those who would have been so upset that they would never have traveled with Princess again, but I considered it a painful lesson...they were technically correct in what they did, but obviously had no heart.  I will never forget this important lesson.  Despite all the talk about how they value their loyal customers and the little buttons they give you..it is a purely transactional relationship, as it should be.

Having said that, Princess, I believe, is being financially shortsighted in this case.  How much do they spend on marketing.  How much marketing will they need to erase the perceptions caused by the Diamond Princess quarantine...especially when it has been followed by, I believe, questions about Coronavirus on the Grand Princess, the Caribbean Princess having two instances of bad norovirus, the Sun Princess being turned away from various ports and then stoned at another.  And let’s not forget the sanitation score of, I believe, the Regal...was it the worst of all ships inspected?

Now would be a great time for Princess to show leadership and generate some positive headlines and goodwill with its customers. Why not allow a few cancellations and take they money from the marketing budget.  Frankly aggressive marketing now would appear tone  deaf.  So with the money they save by stepping back from marketing, they can afford to behave in a way that would appear compassionate but actually be financed astute.  There is no reason why the industry cannot survive and thrive in the long run.  I believe now is the time to at least feign  some compassion, but maybe I’m wrong.

I am glad this ended well for the OP.  As I said we learned our lesson the hard way a few years back when we booked directly with Princess and paid in full on the spot even though they offered us a 24 hour courtesy hold.  Just 12 hours later I needed to cancel.  They had not yet charged my credit card when I called them.  They would not let me cancel without loss of money and they charged my card in full the next day.  I almost decided to never cruise with them again, but technically they were correct.  Still it seemed low.

so I learned to use a travel agent, say yes to a courtesy hold, and buy CFAR insurance.  I also decided to always arrange my own shore excursions and never use the ship’s shops, spa, casino, or specialty dining. Nor do I buy drinks onboard.  We still have a great time.

I just want to add that I read airlines are letting people cancel, so the idea is not unprecedented.  Also, it would only be a financial disaster for Princess to let people cancel, if lots of people want to cancel.  But if lots of people want to cancel, there would be a reason for that.  It would also be a disaster for Princess if the Diamond situation repeats itself on other ships.  I think the industry will suffer no matter what they do at this point. 

Don’t listen to a professor who, according to you, knows nothing about cruise ships.

  How about the the CDC? Is it okay to listen to them?  Only 17 cases in the US?  I assume you are not counting the Diamond Princess cases.

if their is something special about a cruise ship environment that allows the virus to spread rapidly, this is clearly a valid concern.

I know anyone can cancel. I am on a Princess ship right now and have no future cruises booked.  I always have cancel for any reason insurance.  I learned my lesson a few years ago when I paid in full rather than accepting the 24 hour courtesy hold when booking directly with Princess.  12 hours later, I need to cancel and called Princess.  Even though they hadn’t put the charge through yet, they wouldn’t let me cancel and put the charge through the next day.  So I learned a big expensive lesson that day.

I am asking if Princess should let the uninsured cancel.  This is a true black swan event. It would be great PR for Princess to let anyone cancel now.  Princess could use good PR after the Diamond.  It would show they are putting passenger safety first.

Not just Princess, but other cruise lines.  Right now, Princess response to the Diamond Princess situation seems to be to send a letter telling future passengers to be sure to have enough medication with them for at least 2 weeks after their cruises are scheduled to end.  What?

 Cruise ships are not being allowed to dock at numerous ports.  We know that the Purdue professor says cruise ship ventilation is suboptimal in dealing with viruses.  What is the likelihood of more cruise ship infections?  I wonder if the industry has insurance that would allow them their cancel their sailings until this dies down.  Maybe if it is actually declared a pandemic, then the cruise lines can cancel? Maybe this is what the industry is waiting for.   I don’t know, but this seems like a very unique situation.  It seems it would be very bad PR if Princess won’t let people cancel and we get jet another Diamond Princess situation.

On 2/23/2020 at 7:11 AM, gottagocit said:

I would also like to see improvements in air filtration onboard planes. Maybe that will also come out of this. Time will tell. 

I believe I recently read an article quoting a professor from Purdue stating that air filtration on cruise ships is much worse than on planes with regard to viruses.  He was talking about why the Diamond Princess quarantine failed.  So maybe better cruise ship air filtration will also result from this.  We can hope.

I am on a Princess ship now, 28 day cruise, and for the first time I have no plans to purchase future cruises credits.  An article in the Atlantic, I believe,  implied that a vaccine is 12-18 months away at best.  I won’t cruise until the vaccine exists,  We will probably rent a beach cottage in a few months  like we used to decades ago, before we began cruising regularly.  If we enjoy it more than cruising, then we may just stop cruising.  What happened to the people on the Diamond is terrible.  I would like to understand why so many became infected while they were quarantined onboard. Was it the air filtration?  Would fewer have been infected if they had been quarantined ashore?

I’ve noticed some changes in the menu at these.  For example, Crown Grill used to offer diver scallops as an appetizer, now it is bay scallops...big difference.  The new Share menu as of October 2018 also has less expensive ingredients in several cases.  The changes at Sabatini’s have been previously discussed.  We know what has happened to the MDR over the past several years.  I believe the always available beef is now hamburger.  We still find cruising a good value and the food is good enough.  However, we had been considering do more specialty dining to try to recapture the way cruising used to feel, so it is a shame to see cutbacks at these venues too.

Do you still find the specialty dining to be a good value?

Any advice is appreciated.  

We have a morning tour which will either return us to the tender dock at noon or drop us off at Tipaniers hotel for lunch and to enjoy the beach.  I think it would be a shame to go back onboard when we don’t sail until 6 pm, but DH worries that we won’t be able to get a cab back to the ship because the island will be overwhelmed by our fellow passengers.  I think it would be nice to spend few hours at the beach. The hotel appears to be a 10 minute ride from the harbor.

Does anyone have experience with this situation or have a recommendation for something else we could do after our morning tour?

If you don’t care about missing Ketchikan, Royal is the ship for you!

This is very interesting.  We were discussing NCL Bliss or a Princess Alaska cruise.  

We had already specifically ruled out the Royal Princess because Princess did not see fit to provide forward viewing for the majority of its passengers.  It also did not see fit to provide a traditional outdoor promenade deck.  NCL Bliss has enough regard for all its passengers to provide them with forward viewing AND a lovely outdoor promenade deck...two promenade decks actually (and the worst one still beats Royal Princess’ so-called promenade deck.). I don’t want to go all the way to Glacier Bay and have to struggle to view it clearly!

 Now I see there are even potentially more serious problems with the Royal in Alaska.  It looks like we’d need to be prepared to skip Ketchikan.  

This report raises so many questions.  Why did Princess feel the need for a non-disclosure agreement, when the other cruise lines did not?  This is a troubling question. Does the pilots’ report create liability for Princess if they take Royal to Alaska and an incident occurs?  In light of any potential liability, would Princess voluntarily decide not to sail Royal in Alaska?  Will scheduled cruises be canceled?

NCL, with Bliss and her sisters, has found a way to provide forward viewing to all while still having the ship within a ship concept.

Perhaps Princess will also show this level of respect for all her passengers on their new ships.

This is sad, sickening, and stupid.

The cruise industry is desperately trying to attract younger cruisers...even to the point of alienating their base.  Many young adults care deeply about the environment and many young adults strive to do business with corporations that reflect their values.  This will be a deal breaker for many.

Unless CCL is losing money and on the brink of bankruptcy and thus desperate to stay afloat, there is simply no excuse.  Last I checked, they were profitable.  So  to wring a bit more profit from the company, they pollute to ocean?

Thank you for the feedback.  I am considering the Bliss for a number of reasons. One of my traveling companions no longer leaves the ship.  She is also short,, cannot stand for long periods of time, and has asthma.  She wants to see Glacier Bay.  Also, the IC is her favorite place to spend time on a Princess cruise.  I fear desirable viewing space is very limited on some Princess ships and if people are lined up 2 or 3 deep, she won’t see.  Coral might be OK for viewing,  but’s she almost certainly will be unable to use the IC.

The BLiss has a forward viewing lounge with light food...and no smoking and abundant seating.  It also has two promenade decks that allow outdoor viewing...at least one of which allows forward viewing.   I believe the buffet on Bliss allows forward viewing.  It is nice, that unlike Princess, NCL permits non-suite passengers a forward view on its newer ships.  It is also wonderful that NCL, unlike Princess, has found a way to provide a promenade on its newer ships.   I think the Bliss casino is non smoking, but not sure.  I Have never sailed NCL and expect a few trade offs though.

We missed having the IC on the Island...we were on the last sailing before she was butchered and probably won’t sail that ship again.  So I’m happy to find one on the Coral.  But...

I’m looking at the deck plans.  It seems like the IC is half in and half out of the casino.  Is there a glass wall or some other barrier or ventilation  to keep smoke out of the food and away from the seating?  This seems like a bad location when the majority no longer smoke. It also looks like one of the shops is in the casino...also a curious design choice.  But sometimes the deck plans are not entirely accurate.

I noticed there is also a Patisserie in the atrium.  Does anyone know if some food is offered here like croissants or donuts.  

I’m glad the Coral escaped the Island’s fate, but I’m worried about sailing her.  Trying to decide between Coral, another Princess ship, or NCL Bliss in Alaska. I ruled out the Royal Princess and the Pacific Princess due to no forward viewing area and questionable promenade decks.