Heidi13

2 hours ago, CDNPolar said:

 

I can understand why the Master would be hesitant to conduct Bridge tours while sailing, but we were hoping that we would have the opportunity on our upcoming TA sailing.

 

On Viking, other than embarking and disembarking for excursions, I have never really ever seen "security" on board.  Would the Master have enhanced security on the Bridge during tours?

 

 

When providing access to the Bridge while underway, I don't see a need for enhanced security measures. Normally visitors would be provided some basic guidelines prior to the visit, which can include don't touch and don't distract the actual watchkeepers.

Bridge visits will normally have the Master or an additional officer conduct the tour, as the watchkeepers remain focused on navigation.

On 5/24/2024 at 4:59 PM, catspaw1 said:

We went on a HAL cruise southbound about 30 years ago in mid- late August. Hit a gale storm & missed a port of call. We are blue water sailors so weren't bothered by it too much. When we went to the dining room it was over 90% empty. Everyone was seasick & in their cabins. I think better calmer seas are best in June - July. Once the northerly winds start, the seas get rougher. Bring seasickness meds & take a full 2 hours before it gets rough.

Every year the weather systems change.

Having spent 35+ yrs working on this coast, I have experienced significant NW storms as early as May. In all my years working this coast, I've experienced at least one 40 kt + storm each month of the year.

Since you allude to being a "Blue Water Sailor" you should know that the sea state is not just caused by wind waves, from the prevailing winds, but also swell from weather systems that can be many thousands of miles distant. Since Alaska cruising also involves coastal cruising, the sea state can also be impacted by shoaling waters, especially in areas such as Hecate Strait. I have made hundreds of crossing of Hecate Strait in summer, and while most were calmer than the winter storms, few were devoid of wind waves/swell.

In my experience, you have just as much chance of experiencing snotty weather in June/July as mid-late August. 

2 hours ago, Florida_gal_50 said:

That’s crazy.  People should have to suffer in minus 40 like we do for at least a couple weeks per year.  I’m so happy I’ll only have to endure one more winter of working before I’m planning to retire.  I won’t miss going out in that.

Minus 40 C - that's inhuman.

Move to the West Coast, as we complain, and have to wear long trousers, when the thermometer drops to zero.😁

14 hours ago, Gail & Marty sailing away said:

If you booked it on  a ship you will get something ..

Varies by cruise line.

We booked the 2015 Princess WC onboard a previous cruise, and the perks did NOT include OBC.

14 hours ago, Gail & Marty sailing away said:

Holland America Has over 22 POP dinners on the World cruise .....

For those of us that don't cruise Holland America, what is POP dinners.

2 minutes ago, RlyLvn said:

Thanks Heidi13. sounds like you have certainly had your share.

 

I dont want to risk it if I dont need too.  We are in Zanzibar for 2 days and Mombasa for 2 days.

Having said that I dont want to contract Yellow Fever either.

 

As I posted previously, please visit a specialised travel medical professional, who has access to the latest WHO recommendations. During our doctor visits, they researched the latest recommendations for each specific area we were visiting.

In many cases, cities were low risk, the risks increased when you left suburbia and into the bush.

9 minutes ago, RlyLvn said:

Thank you so much for your detailed responses.  This is very helpful and very much appreciated.  We do have an approved Travel Health Provider from our land trip to Africa a few years ago.

 

We have heard from others that they were very sick with the vaccine.  Glad to hear you didnt have any side effects Port Power.

 

tigerfan75 how did you tolerate the vaccine? 

 

Thanks again.

I have probably received more YF vaccines than most posters. Never had an issue with any of them, with my last one being at 55. Now at 67, based on the risks of the live vaccine, I will never get another YF vaccine.

Personally, I prefer to research risks rather than the experiences of a tiny group of recipients. Rather than polling CC posters, I suggest discussing the risks with a specialised medical professional.

4 hours ago, MaineYachtClub said:

DW and I are going to Africa later this summer.  We are both in our 70s.  As part of our prep we were told to get the yellow fever vax by both our family doctor and by the county health department.  We received the vax 3 weeks ago with no reaction at all.

 

Regarding your world cruise.  We went RTW in 2023 and the only vax that we got was a COVID booster.  No vaccinations were required anywhere that we stopped.

I certainly hope the medical professionals giving you the YF vaccination clearly outlines that YF is a live vaccine and the risks increase significantly when over 60. If you are privy to the same information I have been provided, you are braver than me. I have received multiple YF shots since being a teenager, but at 67 would never accept the potential risks of receiving a live vaccine, with the inherent life-threatening risks.

Stating you only required a COVID booster for a World Cruise is meaningless without providing information on your previous vaccinations and itinerary.

BTW - if you visit a competent travel medicine doctor, they don't just ask for your itinerary (ports of call), they want specific details on any tours and overland tours you are planning. Surely, your family doctor and county health department asked these questions. Our pre-World Cruise cruise visits to a specialist doctor lasted about 1 hr, while they researched every port and tour.

Yes, we have completed 3 RTW trips and had to cancel another one. I also spent 35+ years at sea.

4 hours ago, Port Power said:

I don’t know why you dread it?  Have you had a yellow fever vaccination in the past?  Medical opinion has changed, and it is now considered a life long vaccination.  I was about to renew mine after 10 years, but now won’t have to. That saves $$!

The reason the OP is dreading the YF vaccination is because it is a live vaccine and the risks for those over 60 increase significantly. When over 60, the risks are increasingly potentially life threatening.

Having received my first YF vaccine at only 17, I have received a number of boosters at 10 yr intervals. My last vaccine was at 55 yrs of age, when they advised the vaccine was good for life, but they had no definitive proof that previous vaccines would be included in the new validity.

Since there was no guarantee my previous vaccinations would be accepted by all countries we planned to visit, I opted to get another dose. Remember, when it comes to vaccines, the final decision isn't your country's medical opinion, it is the opinion of the immigration official in each country you visit.  

8 hours ago, oskidunker said:

Please let me know which ship tours you liked and those you did not. Am on Jan 6 cruise

The only Shorex we booked was the Hunter Valley tour from Sydney. Brilliant tour, but there was only 4 pax. All other ports in Aus/NZ we did small group private tours, which were exceptional.

On 5/24/2024 at 8:32 AM, duquephart said:

I think it's up to the the captain as to what's allowed.

The determining factor for Bridge visits is first and foremost the Ship's Security Plan (SSP), which is a requirement of the ISPS Code. If the SSP provides any restrictions on Bridge visits, the Master must comply, lest s/he is committing a serious non-compliance.

On many ships, Bridge visits are restricted to when the ship is in port. The Viking SSP obviously gives the Master significantly more latitude in approving Bridge visits. Therefore, provided the SSP does not prohibit them, every visitor to the Bridge is at the Master's discretion.

Having been brought up on pax vessels and having conducted Bridge visits every 1/2 hr on sea days, I was always comfortable having pax visit. However, many Masters were not so comfortable.

22 hours ago, Popsy_cruises said:

Thanks Don. I’ve only ever cruised round the Mediterranean and I’m referring to the main cruise lines as those are the ones I’m familiar with. We’ve been told by one person it’s better to cruise on ships with a capacity of around 2000 and another said the bigger ships are much better, hence my post. But previous comments have established, the person who’s been adamant that the small ships are better has also got a lot of their information incorrect. It’s all personal preference but I’m interested to learn about other people’s experiences. 

My favourite Alaska cruises were my first seasons working on the original Princess ships - Island Princess and Sun Princess (Spirit of London). They had about 700 pax and we rarely had more than 2 ships in port. Lots of space aboard the ships and ports weren't crowded. Unfortunately, those days will probably never return.

As a pax, in Alaska, we have sailed on Sun Princess, Island/Coral Princess and Diamond/Sapphire Princess. The Sun Class had the worst pax/space ratio, so were the most crowded. The other 4 ships were larger, with Diamond/Sapphire having a few more pax and Island/Coral having less, providing better pax/space ratios onboard, so less crowding. Also did one cruise with RCI, on Radiance, as I knew the Captain. Didn't enjoy that one, which was my only Alaska cruise that didn't visit Glacier Bay.

Another consideration for mega ships, is which prime viewing areas are restricted to Suites/Elite pax, etc and/or additional fee areas. With Princess, once they introduced the Sanctuary, those prime areas required an additional fee. In Glacier Bay, it was a significant charge. For photographers, what open decks are available that don't have glass screens. On Island/Coral, I didn't use the upper fwd decks because of the high screens, preferring the fwd decks below the Bridge.

Personally, I now prefer ships with a max of 1,000 pax and pax/space ratios of > 50. Unfortunately, none of the mainstream lines meet this criteria, so if sticking to my preference, I am limited to premium/luxury lines. 

If looking for an exceptional BC Coastal/Alaska experience, seeing most of the Inside Passages, your other option is checking out the local ferry schedules. Alaska State ferries operate from Washington State, up the BC Coast to Alaska. Although BC Ferries no longer provide service from the Lower Mainland, they have a daily daylight sailing between Port Hardy (north tip Vancouver Island to Prince Rupert). It alternates north/south daily through the summer. The route is spectacular, having completed it way too many times, both by cruise ship and ferry.

8 hours ago, DarrenM said:

I doubt this cough is related to air conditioning.

 

Definitely a cold/flu bug.

The air conditioning may not be the root cause, as somebody had to bring the virus onboard. However, the air conditioning is a contributing factor, as in addition to cooling the air, it lowers the total humidity.

Less humid air dries out the membranes in the nose, which is your defence against airbourne viruses, etc. If you don't use a nasal spray you increase the risk of contracting an airbourne virus.

32 minutes ago, Popsy_cruises said:

The person we spoke to said the smaller ships often sail in the inside passage and larger ones don’t. They also said sometimes smaller ships are allowed to sail when larger ships are turned away if there’s limits on the number of ships in glacier bay for an example. This person has cruiser Alaska 3 times and this is the advice they gave us but this is why I’ve asked for other people’s opinions as they may not have been accurate in the advice they gave. 

Glacier Bay is a National Park operated by the Parks Service. They issue requests for proposal to the cruise industry to apply for entry permits. Permits are valid for 10-years and were last issued about 2019. Princess and HAL have the most permits, and from memory, NCL, Cunard, Seabourn and Viking also have some permits. RCL were offered permits, but declined, so no RCI ships visit Glacier Bay. Ships are normally limited to 2 vessels per day, which can be restricted to 1 vessel early/late season.

The size of the ship, has minimal impact on whether the ship will sail, or how much of the Inside Passage the ship navigates. The largest Princess ships, the Royal Class, do not sail through Seymour Narrows and the Canadian Inside Passage. The reason is not the size, but the fact the ships do not handle well, as Princess went cheap with propulsion and manoeuvring equipment.

Back in the 70's and 80's Alaska cruises sailed the entire Inside Passage, but this required 2 Canadian pilots for 48 hrs, US Pilots for most of the remainder and lots of additional fuel. To provide perspective, on 7-day R/T Vancouver cruises, I spent only 6 hrs a week on the Bridge without a pilot aboard. As the size of ships increased and cost cutting became the norm, they cut the top half of the Canadian Inside Passage, saving 50% of the pilotage fees and reducing fuel consumption. Cutting some of the Alaska Inside Passage saved additional pilotage fees. Some smaller ships do still sail the total Inside Passage, but they are usually the very small expedition ships.

Entering Glacier Bay is based on permits, not the size of the ship. However, some of the very smaller expedition ships are US Flagged, and never having worked on US tonnage, I have no experience on whether they get preferential treatment. On foreign-flagged tonnage, the size of the ship has zero impact on entering the bay.

This is from completing 2-seaons working Alaska cruises on the Bridge, then 30+ years working on the Canadian West Coast. Clearly the advice provided by the 3-cruise rookies isn't overly accurate.

3 hours ago, AndyG167 said:

Hi all,

First time post on here, so here goes.

 

Alaska is a bucket list item for my wife and I, I turn 40 next year so we are looking to make it a reality. Looking to combine it with a driving trip through Canadian Rockies, so we're looking for options out of Vancouver.

 

We're both the outdoors types and the main attraction is the whales, hiking, mountains and bears, going to Glacier Bay is also a must. We have found two options for May 2025 and are torn, have you any suggestions.

 

Option 1 - Vancouver return 3rd May for 11 nights - https://www.*****.co.uk/travels/princess-cruises-coral-princess-alaska-11-nights-6510_P?productCode=6510_P&type=DynamicPackage&dateFilter[dateFrom]=2025-05-01&dateFilter[dateTo]=2025-05-31&dateFilter[flexible]=0

 

This one seems to tick a lot of boxes as it goes further than the 7 day Vancouver returns and also goes to Icy Strait Point, which looks to be good for Whales, however if the start of May too early for Whales and bears?

 

Option 2 - Vancouver to Whittier return - 14 nights - 28th May - https://www.*****.co.uk/travels/princess-cruises-coral-princess-alaska-14-nights-6513A_P?productCode=6513A_P&type=DynamicPackage&dateFilter[dateFrom]=2025-05-01&dateFilter[dateTo]=2025-07-31&dateFilter[flexible]=0&facetFilter[RegionHierarchical.Level1][Alaska]=Alaska

 

This one goes much further North although returns to the same ports on the way back. We think the itinerary for options 1 looks better but maybe being able to go 4 weeks later is better for wildlife? Secendly is there enough to do in Juneau, Ketchikan and Skagway to justify two visits?

 

I'm new to cruising so happy to take any advice you give, thanks for reading and thanks for your help.

Welcome to cruise critic.

Cruise options

Each cruise has pros and cons, so it will depend on your preferences. At first glance, the earlier cruise seems to be the better option, as in addition to the usual SE Alaska ports, it visits Hubbard Glacier. Here are a few pros/cons to consider.

3/5/25 Cruise - based on the itinerary on the Princess website, it shows sailing down to Juan de Fuca and up the Pacific Ocean. With a 16:00 departure from Vancouver, this should provide reasonable scenic cruising until darkness about 21:00. However, you have 2-days at sea in the Pacific Ocean, which has the potential for a rough start to the cruise. Sitka is definitely a positive, especially with the Russian heritage. Hubbard Glacier, especially so early in the season is probably at best 50/50, due to ice in the water. The probability of missing Hubbard is much higher early season. Icy Point Straight is also a positive.

28/5/25 Cruise - this will spend less time in open ocean and also visits the spectacular College Fjord. As an additional benefit, in Whittier you can book the Phillip's 26-glaciers tour, which starts a short walk from the dock. This is an amazing cruise that gets much closer to numerous glaciers. Still a bit early for salmon running, but you should see more wildlife than early May. Been to all the SE Alaska ports well over a couple dozen times and still enjoy going back, so I expect you will have no issues with a 2nd visit. This cruise will complete the Canadian Inside Passage between the mainland and Vancouver Island mostly in daylight, which is exceptional scenic cruising.

With respect to driving the Rockies, if flying BA, you can fly into Vancouver and return from Calgary. For a vehicle, you can hire a car or a small motorhome (caravan). Having driven the Rockies multiple times with a Ford F-350 or F-450 and a 41' 5th wheel trailer, both options are viable. My concern with the earlier cruise is the potential for snow at higher elevations and potentially on some of the mountain passes. Mid-June would definitely be a better time for the Rockies drive and seeing wildlife.

Overall, although missing Sitka is a huge negative, in my opinion, the positives for the Rockies tour and seeing College Fjord outweigh missing Sitka.

7 hours ago, Popsy_cruises said:

We’re currently in the early stages of researching a once in a lifetime (for us) trip to Alaska. We’ve not yet picked a cruise line for the cruise portion but I’m intrigued to hear others thoughts on whether you prefer cruising on larger or smaller ships in Alaska? What are the pros and cons of each? 
 

We’ve been recommended both. 
Large: we’ve been told as you’re higher up you’ll see more and they often have the best observation lounge areas. Also there’s the obvious, there’s more choice of what to do. 
Small: we’ve been told you’ll get closer to glaciers and will have more luck sailing in certain areas than the larger ships. 
 

Thanks in advance! 

Lots of factors determine how close you get to the glaciers, with the ship's tonnage not really being a factor.

The key factors are ice in the water, the ship's hull rating and the presence of marine life, which can preclude any vessel access. The mega ships and medium sized cruise ships generally have basic ice class hulls in accordance with their Classification Society. These ships cannot operate in ice, except occasional small bergy bits.

You will find small expedition ships with ice classifications in accordance with the IMO Polar Code that can operate in new summer ice. These ships would have no problems accessing the Alaska glaciers. However, they are considerably more expensive.

The time of year and itinerary are also huge factors. In early season, you have a higher probability of not getting up to Hubbard Glacier and same with Tracy Arm. Whereas, Glacier Bay is almost guaranteed to see at least 1 glacier. One is often closed due to marine life, but 2 others are normally available, throughout the entire season. In working 2 full Alaska seasons + almost a dozen cruises as a pax, I have never failed to get into Glacier Bay, have only made it into Tracy Arm once and missed Hubbard about 3 times.

With respect to the height of lounges above the water line, it may be a consideration for the smallest of the expedition ships, but for any vessel of 500 + pax, I'll suggest it isn't a factor worth considering. I'll suggest the pax/space ratio is of significantly higher concern. It doesn't matter how nice the lounges are, if you are sharing them with thousands of fellow pax. Smaller ships generally have considerably more space per pax, so you have more prime viewing areas per pax.

When cruising Alaska, for me it is all about the scenery, so I'm not concerned how many activities the ship offers. Cruising close to the Solstice also provides many hours of daylight to enjoy the scenery, when cruising inland passages.

1 hour ago, millybess said:

Very interesting thread which I have just come across after being away for a bit.

 

My question:  Is it possible that Viking would use different management companies for different ships?

It is possible, but not really practical.

18 hours ago, TheMichael said:

 

I've seen where the BC legislature has tried to pass a law banning/limiting cruise ships in the Inside Passage, but so far that's been unsuccessful. 

 

The definitive word is "Tried". Since navigable waters are under Federal jurisdiction, the Provincial Govt can try, but they do not have jurisdiction. 

20 hours ago, jeh10641 said:

Is it possible that the "outside passage" is more applicable to sailings into Victoria and the "inside" route is more for Vancouver port calls?

Jim

Both inside and outside routings are navigationally acceptable options for most ships, with the biggest differences being risk, costs and crew fatigue.

For a vessel steaming south down Hecate Strait, bound for Victoria, the outside route is the preferred option, as it will have lower costs (fuel and pilotage), lower risks (significantly less confined navigation) and causes significantly less crew fatigue. The vessel remains in open waters at a constant speed until just prior to arrival Victoria. This provides optimum fuel consumption. The pilotage is short, as the pilot is picked up a couple miles from the breakwater at Brotchie Ledge. When in open waters, the Bridge and Engine Control Room (ECR) manning is at the lowest level (probably identified as green), which only requires the regular watchkeeping officers and ratings.

For the same vessel to navigate the inside passage to Victoria, it is compulsory pilotage from about Pine Island (top end Vancouver Island) to alongside the Ogden Point berth. This will take 17 to 24 hrs depending on slack water at Seymour and the ship's speed. Therefore, the ship is paying 2 pilots for up to 24 hrs. Note - pilots are an expensive addition to the Bridge Team. Being confined waters, the navigation risks increase significantly. Therefore, with increased navigation risks, the Bridge and ECR manning is increased. I don't have access to the latest Carnival procedures, but it is probably "Red" zone for most of the route. This requires additional resources, including the Master or Staff Captain on the Bridge and Chief Engineer or Staff Engineer in the ECR.

The benefit of the inside passage, especially if it is a daylight sailing is the spectacular scenery. Sadly, cost cutting has eliminated most of the Inside Passage, as back in the early days of Alaska Cruising, ships used the entire BC Inside Passage that starts at Grenville Channel, just south of Prince Rupert.

17 hours ago, Islandbc said:

I am interested in knowing what the wifi is like on the Alaska cruise.  We will be on the Orion (between Kodiak and Dutch Harbor) on Sept. 20, 2024.  This is the day that bookings open up for excursions on our next cruise.  At this point, the Alaska cruise isn't full, so if the computers on deck 1 have good connectivity, we might be able to use them.

Thanks for any information you can share.

Connectivity may depend on whether the ship is still using the geostationary satellites, or if they have a Starlink system.

As you proceed further north in Alaska, the altitude of the geostationary satellites reduces, and with mountainous terrain, you have increased potential for the signals being blocked. Over the years we have received a signal almost everywhere except alongside the Railway Dock in Skagway. Even on the large Princess Grand Class ships, we didn't get a signal when alongside that berth.

Haven't experienced Starlink, but with the ever increasing number of satellites being launched, I anticipate they should have a reasonable chance of continuous connectivity.

With respect to sailing between Kodiak and Dutch Harbour, you have open waters to the south, so if using geostationary satellites, while they will have low altitude, you should not have any obstructions to block the satellite signals. If Starlink, with the route being mostly open waters, you should get some visible satellites, so I expect you would receive connectivity.

On 5/13/2024 at 7:28 AM, BaileyMJ said:

OMG - I am in shock a sea captain stated they took a wrong turn - I can’t imagine he or the staff captain can make such a mistake and still be in employed.  
 

Now you plot a course and that can change due to weather/winds ship engines etc but that is what the officers on the bridge do 24/7.   I could see the scenario that due to weather sea conditions Captain would deviate the course to minimize or avoid rough seas for safety of the passengers and that would cause delay to your entry point into the inside passenger - there are only so many pilots available.

I am sorry you missed a scenic cruising but you must of had an amazing crossing snd more importantly I hope you had calm seas and no one fell or was injured.

The Captain and Bridge Team didn't take a wrong turn, as without a Coast Pilot onboard, the Master cannot enter compulsory pilotage waters. If the Ops Office or vessel hadn't ordered the pilot, BC Coast Pilots don't have any based in Port Hardy, they send them up from Vancouver/Victoria, as required.

Large cruise ships also need senior 5 yr + pilots, and since the pilotage is 12 hrs +, they require 2 pilots. The chance of having 2 additional senior pilots sitting in Port Hardy is negligible, so the only option is going down the coast and entering Juan de Fuca.

On 5/11/2024 at 5:44 AM, Mike07 said:

 

 

The issues with this model --- it turns into something like Boeing. Everybody "works" for Boeing, but nobody is responsible for the end product, because "I'm just a contractor."

 

I appreciate the insight into the industry we've seen here, and not just what I put on a Viking survey. I know many ship departments are often outsourced (casino, art auctions, gift shop, and other departments). I realize the maritime industry is also using techs and engineers to take care of the propulsion and electrical systems.

 

I personally do not find contractors to increase quality or knowledge. Yes, I have to work daily with contractors, and yes, I can give you horror stories. And yes, I could sell out, easily, and see a 50-100% salary increase by going contractor. This isn't Nam though, and I still have standards.

With respect to Viking and the cruise lines/shipping companies I worked for, I wouldn't agree that the Marine Industry is manned on the "Boeing" model, as almost all crew are responsible for the end product.

As the Chief posted, manning agencies employed by the cruise lines, in the countries that supply large quantities of hotel ratings, are little more than personnel departments specialising in recruitment. With Viking, the manning agencies recommend employees, who must pass 2 company interviews before they commence onboard training and familiarisation. They are only hired upon completion of the ship based training, with a number not even making it to this stage. (As per Director Hotel Ops, who served on Viking Sun as GM for a number of weeks)

The manning agencies are involved in the recruitment phase and once hired by the cruise line, the ratings only work for a single employer, who provides all the tools, equipment and safety gear to perform the role. All of these factors do not meet my definition of a contractor, who is normally responsible to providing their own equipment, works for multiple employers and is responsible for their own transportation.

The ratings, if not maintaining the required standards for the position will be terminated by the cruise line, not the manning agency.

It will be similar for Deck & Engineering Officers supplied by the ship manager. If any officer is not meeting the required standards outlined in the SMS, they will be returned to the ship manager and replaced by a new officer.

3 hours ago, Cruisedreamer1 said:

Could someone opine on why the April 2025 cruise has so few ports on their itinerary? We like sea days and wondered why.

Providing the itinerary will assist in proving an informed reply to your question. Any additional information on cancelled ports since the itinerary was first published will also help.

Just now, Mike07 said:

 

 

Viking places the question on the survey. I suggest you take it up with them.

Since I won't cruise again with Viking until they provide Canadians with an alternative to the customer unfriendly US Office, completing a survey is a mute point.

I don't have an issue with the arrangement, as it is common in the marine industry

5 minutes ago, Mike07 said:

 

 

W-2 and 1099 are two compensation and wage forms we use in America when we report taxes to our internal revenue service that collects federal income taxes. Furthermore, our states with income taxes would use the same forms to assess their taxes

 

In terms of the latter, you're effectively describing head hunters. Are you saying the hotel staff are also contracted out?

Since the ships are not flagged in the USA and hardly any, if any, of the crew are American, why quote American tax forms? This is a worldwide forum with many nationalities.

Whether the hotel crew is contracted depends on whether you use American definitions or maritime definitions. Therefore, in my opinion neither the officers or ratings are "Contracted out".