AmazedByCruising

17 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

As for a "true streaming TV", I would hate to see what the cruise fare would be to cover the bandwidth for a thousand TV's on satellite internet.

Hi Chief, 

I think there's a solution for that, by setting up a Content Delivery Server on board the ship. Most people will watch more or less the same content, so the on shore server can redirect the TV or browser to the ship's server.

1 hour ago, JoeD67 said:

Let's be honest; does anyone believe it wouldn't be complete chaos in a real emergency?    I love the crews, they are always great, but in an emergency....

Not really if you look at footage of the actual emergency on Costa Concordia. 

4 minutes ago, RD64 said:

All of this would be simplified if people actually booked and paid for the cabin they really wanted instead of expecting the moon without paying for it.

And leave nice suites empty because people bought an ocean view while they'd love to upgrade for $20?  There has to be some mechanism to make both guest and line happier.

1 hour ago, ChiefMateJRK said:

Yes, but real auctions auction one item (or lot) at a time and there is a single winner.  Let's say I join this silliness, bid $200 on an upgrade to a balcony, and they tell me there are 20 bids higher than me.  What does that even mean?  I don't know if they have 30 balconies for bid or ten.

Yes, I don't understand how it works exactly. Maybe they auction one upgrade at a time, cabin by cabin? 

25 minutes ago, drvmywifecrzy said:

IS this new?  Any tricks here?  Will it endlessly make me raise my bid?

 

Auctions have been around for a while, but maybe not in the cruise industry 🙂

It will make you bid until you're not interested anymore. 

Don't know the details but this is much more transparent than asking "how much would you pay for an upgrade". The winner could be paying much more than needed to beat the competition, maybe $50 dollar would have been enough because nobody was interested. So in fact, this may even be disadvantageous for the line. Maybe they do this when the higher category doesn't sell and any money is good? 

I asked the same question before: 

Somewhat useful answers were: sail Disney (that doesn't have a Casino), or ask the purser (guest relations) to block your card. 

I don't see why the ships don't make it easier to simply set a limit. They have limits on drinks, and some might want to protect themselves by not cruising at all. Also, the Casino is not the huge money maker on ships believe it to be. 

1 hour ago, TLCOhio said:

 

Agree strongly that there is lots of real money out there and waiting for the right timing to jump back into the mix with their previous spending and investing patterns.  But, when and how?

It's already being spent right now on ships isn't it? 

On 8/10/2022 at 2:07 PM, TLCOhio said:

In the second quarter, onboard revenue per passenger cruise day was approximately 30 percent higher than during the comparable 2019 period

When the ships will sail again at 100% or even more, they will have more income than ever. I remain an optimist 🙂

36 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Having said that, it is perfectly legal to pump gray water (sinks, showers, galleys, laundry, not black water from toilets) overboard when outside 12 miles, with no treatment whatsoever. 

Dumping water from the laundry feels worse than perfectly natural feces and a bit of paper? I'd think that life in the ocean can deal with or may even welcome a bit more poop but isn't very enthusiastic about detergents?

8 hours ago, ALKID said:

Yes.

Ports that require protection from rats coming from a ship? That sounds absurd. There must be rats everywhere in every port. The maybe one ore two rats that find a rope to get to land won't solve that problem. I'm amazed (but that's my middle name) that it would the port that requires rat guards. I'd think it would be the ship protecting itself.

13 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Many ports do not require rat guards anymore, and really only cruise ships use them all the time.

Why would the port require them, instead of the Captain wanting a clean ship? Rats coming from the ship? 

12 hours ago, JT1962 said:

That is why you will see rat / rodent guards (circular discs) on most ropes used to tie the ship to the dock. They keep most, but not all, from getting past them.

Could you make that 100% using electricity (like an electric fence)? 

36 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

So, there is no expiration date for the FCC?  

The other question is what is 2018 money worth after 7 years. FCC "money" must put a smile on the accountants face at current inflation rates. It's not "a new cruise in the same cabin", it's "you can get a new cruise but at a lower deck. And forget about the package".

Also, https://thepointsguy.com/guide/future-cruise-credit-certificate/ FCC seems to have the worst conditions possible.  

I believe we have been here before, but I wonder if CCL needs to show how much of the FCC was given out/bought in a year and how much of that was actually redeemed.  And how that shows up in the balance.

Casinos at Sea offered me $250 to cruise again. Limited time, limited ships, limited so much that the expected value (cost to CAS) was worth less than the chocolate covered strawberries I got from X. I can't believe that if CAS sends 1000 offers of $250, their accountant really believes that CAS will have to cough up $250,000 until most of the offers weren't used.

During Covid, FFC might have been the life vest of cruiselines without much repercussions after Covid.

14 hours ago, ldtr said:

Except those US workers that work on Ferry boats and other commercial ships in the US that carry more than 12 passengers.  The laws are by international definition. It does not just apply to large cruise ships, but tour boats, ferries, etc.  Actually a fairly large number of workers when one looks at all of them throughout the US.

Please don't tell me the arguments I've heard for 9 years over and over again. It IS possible to make a exception for cruise ships. I once proposed to then simply make a list of ships that are cruise ships and can hire foreign workers. US waters are US waters and the US can decide what the laws are. 

It took Covid to make it happen, but such law HAS been adopted.  There is an actual list of ships in law. I haven't heard about ferries or tour boats appealing because now they should be able to hire Indonesians, too. 

PVSA originally wanted to protect an industry moving people from A to B. (fun fact: it was introduced because steam ships exploded). Now, people fly to A and fly back from B. If the very reason for a law is outdated, it should be refined or abolished. Or at least, lawmakers should rethink it. IMHO, PVSA solves precisely nothing.

5 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

A "closed loop" cruise (one that starts in a US port, and ends in the same US port) only requires a stop at any foreign port.  However, a cruise that starts at one US port (Juneau), and ends at another US port (Seattle), requires a port call at a "distant" foreign port, regardless of whether it has a port call at a "near" foreign port (Victoria).  A "distant" foreign port is defined as one that is not in North America, Central America, the Caribbean, the Bahamas, or Bermuda.

You're explaining such a weird set of rules over and over again. Not sure why you believe these rules are honestly meant to make the world better. Because we agreed to not discuss this matter anymore,  please do ignore this post, but I believe PVSA helps exactly nobody.

On 8/7/2022 at 2:05 AM, chengkp75 said:

The drones would be used for search, not rescue, and not sure how much they would help.

The article is a bit ambiguous. . The ship is also equipped with drones and helipads, which would be useful in search and rescue operations. At least drones can drop life rings which already happens. Searching is the hard part I think, but the drones get cheaper, smarter and more autonomous (i.e. no crew training needed), every month. Maybe 2 years to have companies prove it works. Then 5 years until CDC demands having drones available for MOB situations (because someone at CDC found a way to define a MOB as a way to introduce diseases to the US, and now he gets the people and budget and a pay raise). I'm willing to bet most cruise ships sailing in US waters have drones within 10 years. 

15 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

So, that would take care of cooling while in port.  How do you store this for when the ship is at sea?

You wouldn't. When the ship is at sea the electricity doesn't come from port either. But when in port, there are nicer options.

17 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

So, the port needs to finance the infrastructure to run piping out to where they can get to deep water?

Yes. And get paid for it by the ships. Exactly like electricity and water. And like some ports require the use of their electricity, in the future they may require using their AC as well.

19 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Water is not cheaper to take from port than to produce onboard.  Shore power can be cleaner than ship's power, but again, only when in port, so how do you let the port do cooling while at sea?

Still, municipal water is sometimes used on ships. It would depend on the itinerary but ships spend a lot of time in port. I understand you cannot provision a ship at sea with electricity or cooling or whatever, but when in port it does work for electricity and water. Cold water seems like a logical next step. At least it's less SOx that the public gets upset about.

On 8/6/2022 at 2:14 AM, chengkp75 said:

So, where does Miami get the power to run the pumps that pump the geothermal water around the system (and that is not deep sea water, but water circulated to the deep ground, which is cooler), if there is no fuel burned?

Not sure where Miami gets its power from, but they are not burning oil to get it. I think even coals are better for the environment than how a ship makes electricity, but on land it could be nuclear power, or wind or sun. 

On 8/6/2022 at 2:14 AM, chengkp75 said:

Geothermal heating/cooling (which I think is not common in Europe), uses water that is pumped down a hole in the ground, where it is cooled off by the earth (to about 50*F at 20 feet down or more), and then pumped to the cooling/heating coil for the house to directly cool the air, without any refrigeration system (and its attendant compressor, etc). 

It's not that uncommon in Europe, but usually it's actually heat that is extracted from deep down. And there are all sorts of similar projects like storing heat in steel during summer. 

The Netherlands has a whole network to bring CO2 from factories to greenhouses, heat from factories to homes, etc.

On 8/6/2022 at 2:14 AM, chengkp75 said:

How long would it take to pump this refrigerant on and off the ship. 

The point is that it is cheaper to produce coldness on land. How to transfer it to the ship is the next question. Pumping refrigerant may not be the best option, but when the ship is in port it may rely on land based produced coldness. For that you don't even need refrigerant, it would be connecting two water pipes from the ship to two pipes on land. Hot water to land, cold water back. And just pay for ever calorie that the port takes out.

The port would need to find a way to cool the water, but they have more options and could, for instance, use the cold water from the ocean. The ship already gets fuel, food and drinks from the port. And because it's cheaper and nicer for the environment, sometimes electricity and water are also taken in from port. If it's doable, why not let the port do the cooling as well.

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

Never going to happen.  Every single passenger who develops cancer after a cruise on a nuclear powered cruise ship would be suing the cruise line.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NS_Savannah sailed. 

And while that failed, serious people are investing in the design of nuclear ships 

https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/ulstein-thor-nuclear-powered-ship/index.html

(btw, also nice to read that they also think of using drones for rescue operations, I remember being Mr Pie in the sky for suggesting just that).

On 8/4/2022 at 12:27 PM, chengkp75 said:

While geothermal heating and cooling is efficient on land (it ain't moving), it is again a closed system, unlike your idea of an open system taking cold water and discharging it after it has cooled the chill water.  Any closed system is more efficient than an open system.

Sorry to return to the subject. Changed the idea a bit: comparable to ships taking in electricity and water from shore in some ports, could it be possible to transfer "coldness" to the ship which was generated on land? For instance, Half Moon Cay or Miami could have a system using deep sea water that is much more efficient than burning fuel. Instead of water or electricity, the ship gets a liquid refrigerant and the gas version is returned to the cooling station. 

Burning so much fuel to keep a gigantic ship nice and cool seems such a waste when there's cold water nearby. 

12 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

My God, you come up with some ideas.

I know 🙂 But now we all know more, thank you again! And yes, dumb idea.

Just now, d9704011 said:

With the ship moving at 18 knots or so and the diameter of hose required to suck up enough cold water they'd have to weigh the end down with one of the ship's anchors and that produces too much drag.

Not sure if the extra fuel for the drag is more than what it costs to cool water from let's say 70*F down to 50*F. 

I think it would depend on the itinerary. You don't need to suck up cold water all the time, but at the times you can, because the ship isn't moving and the sea is deep enough, why not? 

A possible good time to harvest cheap cold water is when the ship uses tenders anyway at a private island. 

59 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

This is the system that does the "AC" on the ship, they circulate 50*F fresh water around the ship to cool the air, not refrigerant like in your home. 

Hi Chief,

A related question, why cool the water on the ship when there's water at 39*F available 200 meters below the ship? (according to Google). Why not just throw out a hose and pump cold water up, and exchange the heat with the water in the "AC", instead of using (I guess) much more fuel to cool warm water down to 50*F?

On a cruise in Europe, I had unlimited internet on my phone in every port and I turned on the hotspot for a waiter during lunch. 

He was walking around with a serving plate full of cutlery and in the middle his own phone with a live connection to his wife and kids in The Philippines. He dropped by a few times to show the scene. I believe he did like that "gift".

8 hours ago, DrSea said:

I get what you are saying, but just to clarify, cruise ships do not make great hospitals. The electrical wiring can't handle vents, telemetry, etc. There are ships that specifically built for this and the US has like 2 of them floating around. It's like comparing a van to an ambulance. Both can transport patients but one is purpose built for it. 

Not sure the ships can't be refitted at relatively low cost if electricity is the problem. The ships generate more electricity for the hotel than for propulsion. Cruise ships and even ferries have been used as hospitals during the pandemic. But hospitals is just one of many uses of a moveable hotel.

8 hours ago, ray98 said:

They were only able to raise $1b borrowed at 10.5% and had to release $1b in common stock further diluting the existing shares.  Carnival is not in good shape....at all.

Theoretically, can they create more stock endlessly (even when the stock price drops to pennies) and by doing so keep afloat forever?

I never understood what's wrong with diluting. Of course the pie has to be shared with more people, but the pie has become bigger, and if the CCL accountants did it right, more per share than it was before. For instance I wouldn't mind my shares in my small company being diluted if a huge investor came along, but obviously the investor must add more to the balance/share than what my current shares are worth.

10.5% isn't cheap, but it's also almost the same as current inflation plus a few percent extra. Every year the debt is worth 8-9% less.

The intrinsic value of CCL, the ships, may be deprecated according to a certain schedule (they need maintenance, they need more dry docks after 15 years, they get old fashioned, etc). But with such inflation, after 5 years there's only halve the debt left (in actual value), while fares and martinis will reflect the dollar/euro/renminbi value of 2027. The ship itself is still the ship, CCL basically hedged against inflation by owning (and not renting or leasing or whatever) the ships.

If all else fails, Holland is frantically trying to house refugees, and has chartered MS Volendam, looking for 2 more ships as a last resort because there aren't enough houses. At about 1000 new refugees/week and a complete stand still in building for various reasons, and an already huge shortage of housing (think 30 year olds living with their parents, divorced people sleeping in cars), tiny Holland alone might be tempted to buy CCL altogether at the current price.

Even if CDC forbids cruises altogether tomorrow, the ships are still off the shelf hotels that can be deployed anywhere in the world. For refugees, as a hospital, for quarantine, for the Olympics, for conventions, you name it. There aren't many suppliers who can offer that, and if you'd want to enter that market I believe all yards will tell you they don't have the time, capacity and not even the steel to build your ship. CCL can easily house more than 200k people for 50k in market cap/person using their own ships. Not many companies can offer that.