Luckybee

St Marteen is destroyed.

 

 

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Exactly right. We have done a number of land trips to SXM and were just there for 3 weeks in May. Out of the 3 properties we stayed at 1 has said no reservations probably until mid next yr, another is somewhat ok, and haven't been able to get much info at all on the 3rd. The damage is huge and widespread. Our friends living on the island have only been able to sporadically contact anyone.

If you genuinely wish to see how SXM is doing try traveltalk dot com on the st marten bd. There is imho a zero chance of any cruise ships getting back there for months. It'll be that long for some to even have basic necessities restored.

You posted it as if it was a fact. As long as you now concede it was just an opinion, and a wrong one, then at least we have been able to agree on something. Since, it was originally supposed to prove your point, and to end the discussion. It is childish to accept "facts" when we all know they are just opinions.

 

I think I said somewhere back in one of my first posts on this thread, that nobody, including the talking heads on TV, RCI, or you actually know where the storm will strike and what will be damaged. I am merely opineing that we all take specific storm track warnings with a great leap of faith, and that believing said predictions we are likely to be wrong more times than we are right.

 

Yours is no disgrace.... quoting Yes.

 

JC

Everyone is entitled of course to an opinion. Having watched some of the coverage on tv today mine certainly hasn't changed. To invite passengers to travel into a hurricane area in order to make a cruise imho was not appropriate. The eastern coast may have missed the brunt of the storm(cept one wouldn't know that by looking at the flooding coverage of downtown Miami)....but Royal certainly couldn't have known the direction the storm was going to take (esp since their weather guy hasn't exactly been dead on accurate to say the least).

In no other industry does a company get away with not providing a service/product contracted for and not having to refund. A 4 day cruise is not pure and simple the same product as a 7 day one....and that is a fact not an opinion.....and in my opinion they should have to refund when they change the product that dramatically and the purchaser does not want the new product.

Thank you, but there have been at least two others who have mentioned her condescending posts. She knows more than anybody (just ask her) and she is not shy about pointing that out to anyone who disagrees with her. Basically she is entitled her opinion, and so is everyone else entitled to her opinion.

 

In my opinion she would make a good politician. I'm not saying that she would be good at any job she was elected to (to be fair, maybe she would), but she sure would make a very good politician. I can't truthfully tell you what I thing about politicians without getting a time out.

I don't spend much time generally on these boards since we do many more land based holidays than cruises, but I recently had the pleasure ;p of dealing with this poster as well. I quickly came to the realization that it is far better to ignore as it is abundantly clear that most of this appears to be for the sole purpose of self entertainment. Honestly, having now seen her/him ? in action in a few threads it seems that the reason for posting is only to be controversial because some of their posts are just so argumentative that they border on irrational. We all know people who for one reason or another will automatically say black when you say white, or sunny when you say cloudy even though it is pouring rain. Imho for me anyway, my professional life is such that I deal with that on a regular basis so Im ignoring during an activity that I don't get paid for :)

Life is too short to do otherwise !

I wonder whether, on the issues themselves, whether you agree with me or with him? I bet there is a correlation there. Regardless, this is all of topic meta discussion. Let's get back to the topic and agree to disagree.

 

Without any doubt.

Honestly no correlation whatsoever. I happen to find your posting to him extremely condescending, somewhat like yours to me just now. You make a comment taking the entire thread off topic, then you decide after you get called out on it, that everyone should "get back to the topic" . I'm sorry but until you began to make personal comments, the topic imho was quite civilized and respectful and was on topic !

When I read this, your response to Caribill, it reminded me of the old proverb 'There are none so blind as those who will not see'. You may not realise that virtually every post of yours is pompous and many are also patronising! ;)

Thank you for saying what I, and others I suspect didn't have the nerve to say. I am not a frequent poster and generally try to stay out of pettiness as I have better things to do :)

I know neither of these posters but I can certainly say that nothing in Caribells posts in this thread came anywhere near being as offensive as this post by BUU was.

Absolutely right....we all get caught up in talking about cruising but the message from the op is what we should be concerned with. Good luck to all affected and stay safe :)

I feel for you. I'm not cruising until Nov/Dec but supposed go to St Martin and Thomas twice on my B2B2B2B's. Unfortunately this is nothing new, cruise lines do this almost every yr, be it ship with Mechanical issues or weather: Harvey, Mathew, Sandy. Ships stay out extra 1-3 days, next one sails short those days and get them prorated usually with offer like now, sometimes not. Couple storms had ships sailing on cruise to nowhere, all sea days. They usually never cancel. Been cruising 30 yrs and had over dozen times at least one port change for all, can't remember ever getting any $ for changes. One thing do remember is yrs ago if ship missed a port they didn't even give you the Port Tax back.

Im not personally affected as you can see by my earlier posts...just feels wrong to me to put people in danger the way Royal is doing and Im quite empathetic towards those who are in this position

You do realize the contract that you agreed to gives Royal Caribbean the right to alter itinerary as needed, right? Per the contract they zero obligation to give any refunds, and there's not much you can do about it. I appreciate that it is frustrating for a lot of people, but Royal Caribbean also has the expectation that you will honor the contract you agreed to and they're offering much more than they are required to per the contract. If you are so inflexible in your schedule, I would recommend buying a form of "cancel for any reason" insurance, in which case the insurance company would reimburse you a portion of your fare in cash, not Future Cruise Credit. Especially if sailing during hurricane season.

 

Depending on how this storm goes there's a chance they completely cancel the sailings, in which case full refunds would be issued.

There is a big difference between an "alteration" of an itinerary and a complete repudiation of the contract. I would argue that an alteration would include a change of ports and perhaps a slight modification to the number of days. A change that takes a cruise from a 7 day one to a 3 or 4 day cruise is not an alteration nor a modification. It is a change that completely alters the nature of the product purchased.

The more interesting argument from your point of view may be the act of god provisions that they might be able to stand behind.

Neither defense however eliminates their moral responsibility which is a whole different animal and will effect how good/bad they are seen as a corporate citizen, and imho they are not standing out as a shining star .

Yes, but they're giving people a choice.

 

1 - sail a shortened sailing. You will receive 50% of what you paid as a refundable on board credit and 50% as a future cruise credit. You're essentially getting.free 4 or 5 day cruise (obviously you'll spend something on board).

 

2 - decide not to sail and receive 100% of what you paid as a future cruise credit.

 

They are not forcing anyone to travel to Florida or sail on the 12th or 13th.

 

Some people, like the OP, are just complaining that that they just don't get a complete cash refund like those folks who's cruises have been cancelled.

You do realize that not everyone has the luxury of flexibility and/or the ability to change dates, or take additional vacations. Dh and I are both self employed in a profession that requires us to book our holidays at least a year in advance. I can tell you today which holidays we are taking, and when right up until the end of 2018 and into the beginning of 2019. If I had to sit down and look at dates where we both would be available between now and the end of 2018 I might be able to find a week or two but Im skeptical that I could. A one year credit wouldn't work well for us.

Others perhaps cant afford higher prices, for some it may be a honeymoon and they might instead want to go when it is their honeymoon and not 6 months late. I could go on and on with a myriad of reasons. Fact is a 7 day cruise was booked. This isn't simply a change in itinerary, but a complete change of cruise and if the product having been contracted for is no longer available they should be getting their money back. Add to that in order to even get the new product the passenger needs to pt their lives in danger imho its a no brainer that refunds need to be offered.

Officials are telling people to get out of the way. Royal is telling you to wait until it passes. This isn't the Harvey experience.

This unique and extraordinary storm one of the most powerful in history is scheduled as of 5pm today to be hitting Florida from the 10th to the 11th. If I am not mistaken at this point RCCL is telling people that cruises will be leaving on the 12th and 13th.

We live near Toronto....we do not have a cruise scheduled for this time and if we did there isn't a snowballs chance in heck that we would head for Florida . But if we couldn't afford to take the hit, and our insurance didn't cover unless the cruiseline cancelled then we would have to get to south Florida on either the 11th or 12th....that isn't waiting until it passes with Irma. . In the islands waiting until it passes is months, in Fla it is likely weeks if the damage is anywhere close to the places it has already hit....even if it is a fraction !

I've only been through 2 hurricanes on land based vacations, and while we did have to evacuate both the Bahamas and South Fla on the one occasion(after evacuating the Bahamas to get to South Fla, only to have the hurricane cross central Fla where we had finally evacuated to....lol) and it wasn't a fun experience....and the remnants were a mess. We rode out one which was only a Cat 1 ....and that was a mess too! Having read many posts on here from those either not living in hurricane areas, or having no experience at all with hurricanes I am convinced that part of the problem is many don't seem to understand what a category 5 hurricane is capable of. Reading some posts on another message board a recurring theme is ..."wow some of the pictures look like a Tornado went through" .I want to yell "no chit people what do you think a Cat 5 is.....its like a very very very big Tornado"...omg !!!!

How many of you believe that if you booked a hotel stay for 7 days and this is OK: you were to show up at the hotel to check in and were told the hotel wouldn't open for another three days and your stay is being prorated, come back in 3 days for the rest of your stay.

 

As a cruise line, there is a certain level of accommodation that you require be available to sell and deliver your goods. The infrastructure to get people to your ship, including the local airport, the port facilities itself, roadways between as well as hotels and other services have to be available. Anything that adversely affects those, adversely affects your product. You cannot stick your head in the sand and say to everyone "all that stuff is not my responsibility." As a cruise line, you rely upon that infrastructure for your product. You may not be in direct control of it, but you benefit by it every other day of the year, and base your product on it. So when it becomes unreliable or unavailable, your product is as much unreliable, unavailable or undeliverable as anything else.

 

People who bought a 7-day cruise, deserve a 7-day cruise. And if you are unable to fulfill what you sold, you need to refund what they paid, or provide a way for them to adjust their reservation at no additional cost, or possibly even provide a way to put that value towards different cruise plans now or in the future. If you want to give them an option to take a 4-day version instead, then you also have to recognize whatever screwed over your original plans is probably still somehow going to affect those accepting your changed plans. So that's certainly something you can offer, but it's not anything the same as delivering what was originally purchased.

 

It's VERY disconcerting to see RCL's behavior during these recent hurricane events. They seem to be in denial that their product requires support of other infrastructure to be usable and deliverable. And they are in denial that these storms impact that infrastructure more than just during the immediate traversal of the storm across land and sea.

And speaking of hotel's...interesting to see Disney's hurricane policy which allows for a complete cancellation/refund if they or "your place of residence" gets a hurricane warning

https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/en_CA/faq/hurricane-policy/warning-issued/

Good corporate ethics in this case !

All I can say is holy crap ! If anyone who has viewed the photos from SXM, or STT in the past 24 hrs is seriously thinking about intentionally going into the path of this thing to get on a cruise ship instead of running far far away they have to be out of their minds. We have friends in SXM who no longer have a condo. The Sonesta in Maho (a very sturdy high rise hotel...is toast). My assistants sister who lives in the Provo in the Turks just paid a small fortune to catch a private flight to get anywhere out of the islands and they landed in Atlanta last night.

The fact that a cruise company is even suggesting it is unbelievable. Someone mentioned something about personal responsibility on another thread. Doesn't Royal (or any other cruise line who is doing the same thing) understand corporate responsibility ? The fact they are not offering refunds, cancelling and intentionally asking people to come on down is pure and simply nuts. If this storm hits anywhere in Florida with anywhere close to the same velocity as it hit the islands the damage is going to make Andrew look like a walk in the park. It is mind numbing that anyone potentially wants to put themselves into a place either before it potentially hits, or after when there may in fact be no communication, massive problems with food and shelter, and well...you know....a state of emergency.

For anyone even thinking about it...here's a few links for you

just scroll down....https://twitter.com/jonathanfalwell

look at the photos here........https://www.facebook.com/calmos.desaintmartin/

again photos ....https://twitter.com/bienglace

If you're thinking about doing it....ask yourself if it is worth your life??

It's one thing for a Fla resident who makes it through unscathed to perhaps drive a few hours to a port....it is a whole entire other ballgame to "get there early" hoping to get on if the storm isn't "too bad"

And to the OP...I don't know if it is greed, or just pure and simply horrible management, or that the inmates are in charge of the asylum !!!

How did you book your cruise? On the website? The words "refundable" and "non-refundable" are there during the booking process, with explanations. Through a TA? That agent had the responsibility to explain the difference to you.

 

I am sorry that you are frustrated, but you are taking it out in the wrong direction. Look in a mirror.

The terminology being used does present a bit of a problem . I booked a "non refundable" fare for a suite. I did so over the phone with a RccL agent. I was told that if we cancelled we would lose $100 each and the rest would be a credit good for a year. That was it, that was all. Only when we wanted to change our ship was I told that we couldn't change ships either. Is it my fault for not going to the website and pulling up the terms and conditions before booking, yes I should have. I actually did after we were told we couldn't change ships because I couldn't believe what the rep was telling me and how inane it was that RCCL was willing to lose a $10000+ booking over $200 and it was definitely there. So yes I should have read the entire contract as im sure everyone does.:rolleyes:

What those of you who do not understand regarding the op's issue is that there are not many companies in the travel industry(non cruise) that do not allow changes to booked reservations.

Even many of the packaged tour companies that wont allow refunds will allow date changes without charge(and they are usually the toughest). A non experienced cruiser would not expect that.

Also if it is a suite, you probably saved way more than $100pp by choosing the non refundable, so you are still ahead.

 

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Uh no....if he/she is in a suite they didn't choose to book non refundable. There is no choice it is non refundable or don't book at all .

Yes, that southern itinerary can be quite rocky, especially around Curacao to Aruba. Glad to hear you were moved to a lower deck and now you can relax! Bon voyage and please let me know how you enjoyed Koningsdam.

Oh sure you've just made my day = Not! Dh and I just switched from a 4th deck aft Neptune, to a 7th because of noise concerns for next Nov....now you're telling me that aft may not be the way to go on this trip....arghhhhh.

In your experience how rocky is rocky? We leave Curacao at 11 pm and get into Aruba at 7 am the next morning where dh and I will disembark. Are we just talking about the one overnighter being bad or ...???

October 29th. I just got off the phone with Holland. We got it straightened out. Not happy I had to pay $80.00 more but I sure did not want to be sick the whole cruise. Itinerary, Amber Cove, San Juan, Bonaire, Curaco, Aruba.We hit rough seas one year going to San Juan on the Veendam and pretty much everyone was feeling sick. They were going wall to wall down the hallway. I had people tell me they had never felt or been sicke except that particular sailing. Thank you and we are so looking forward to it.

Please please please come back and advise regarding this cruise. Dh and I just booked a very similar one( only difference is Grand Turk and Half Moon Cay and not San Juan) for November of next year and I'd love to hear details

My T.A. is now quoting me three prices from HAL: the Explore-4, an Advantage fare, and the really low fare. Only the really low fare has a non-refundable deposit.

 

But my goodness the deposit is high! Even with the 50% discount the Explore-4 deposit is $780 and the Advantage fare is twice that!! :eek:

True that ! We booked the advantage fare and the deposit was 2x what it would have been with the Explore4 pkg. ( I thought of it as simply paying for more of the cruise sooner :) )

I didn't check the deposit for the super sale because I have no interest in booking a non refundable deposit having already lost one with RCCL.

For us I'd rather pay a bigger deposit then get stuck with a non refundable.

Yes because it's non refundable. If you wanted the option of it being refundable or with the ability to make changes then book accordingly. We always book suites so we don't even have the choice to book refundable anymore. Even if you booked a non refundable hotel that far out or a non refundable flight you are out of luck.

Not many hotels are non refundable, and those that do offer non refundable rates, always have the option regardless of category one is booking. Furthermore, most of the better hotels will work with the guest to reschedule even when one is within a cancellation period. Two years ago we were booked at a Hyatt resort in Hawaii and were only 5 days out and within their cancellation period. (our other hotels were refundable).Something came up that prevented us from travelling at that time . All it took was one phone call to reschedule. Same thing with 2 airlines that particular trip who waived cancellation penalties. (on the 3rd we were booked full fare business so no fees). Granted this was a serious medical situation, and both airlines asked for confirmation of the issue but at least they asked

Contra that with RCCL where I tried to change ships for the same dates in November of 2018 15 months in advance. No interest in why we wanted to change whatsoever ! But then again this is the same cruise line that asked people sailing out of Galveston to show proof of flooding before they would let them change too:rolleyes: so I shouldn't be surprised.

I'm also really confused. Why do people keep booking non-refundable fares and then getting mad when they want to make a change and are being charged the change fee that they agreed to and signed up for?

 

All of these people keep making justifications for why they think their "change" isn't really a big enough deal to warrant a charge, and then claiming outrage at Royal Caribbean for having the nerve to charge the fee that they, the customer, signed up for in order to save a couple hundred bucks off the price of their cruise. I just don't get it.

 

Why do these people keep booking non-refundable when they have an option to book a refundable fare????

 

What is so hard to understand about "You will be charged $100pp if you want to change this cruise?" It doesn't matter if the change is to a more expensive cruise, or you have 15 people in your group instead of 2, you still have to pay it, that's what you signed up for. So ridiculous.

 

 

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Not all categories have the option...suites do not !

The reason most vacation bookings require a deposit is to have some idea of how many people will be there. I was always surprised that RCI would return the deposit if changed or cancelled. Most vacation places will not so now they are inline with accepted practices.

This is not correct. Dh and I do land based vacations at least twice a year and we never have non refundable deposits staying at numerous different resorts. Some will have non refundable 30 days prior, or 14 or 3 but usually the only ones which might be non refundable generally are those that are part of a package deal .

Had my T.A. price out the difference. WOW! ... $845 per person cheaper to book it in Canadian$ without the package. Only catch is the deposit is non-refundable when booking without the Explore-4 package. No way DH & I will spend that much in drinks! :eek:

We're from Canada too, and booked a cruise for November 2018 on Koningsdam. I don't know if it is because we chose to book in US dollars or not but we booked without the explore4 and our deposit is refundable.

We've never cruised Hal before but have just booked our first with them, and went through the same dilemma. For us the price differential was about $700+ for a 10 day cruise and it didn't make sense for us. Dh and I plan to bring our own wine, will have our specialties pre booked(so that Pinnacle grill wont do us any good), and given that Hal doesn't allow one to simply pay the difference on a more expensive drink made the package useless for us. For dinner dh and I will usually bring a bottle of white wine, but dh will sometimes want a glass of red. I might want the odd frozen drink. I do not want to be sitting there questioning whether the price is within the limit in order to decide whether im going to order. Knowing dh's taste in wine...the price will never be within the package limit...lol.

I would rather order and pay for what we want. Now if one could pay the differential ala RCCL then we would have taken the package. Honestly though...the only one who can tell you if it is "worth it " for you....is you :)

Thanks all for the info so far....still looking for info on how easy/hard to get specialty restaurant reservations for specific times/dates if we book far in advance. Also how easy to get lounge chairs somewhere on the ship in the sun. Is Ice River Green the only bottled water one can get in the suite ??? I don't want to lug a case of water if we dont have to but we prefer Evian or Voss ....can handle Aquafina or Fiji ? Lastly.....any specialty restaurants that are not suggested ?

LOL....dh wants to stay on deck 4....and I want to go up to 7 or 8.....now we have to decide on that dilemma :)

Do you have it in writing from HAL that you are permitted to leave the ship in Aruba to begin your 2 week vacation there?

Yes !!

We had to book first but we were able to cancel had they said no, then they sent us an email confirmation confirming the deviation. I didn't expect a problem because it didn't contravene the Jones Act ( I checked first :))

Thanks Bruce

I had read in the reviews of the K about the vibrations on the 4th deck and also about the noise.

Was there any reason in particular why you chose the 7th over the 4th with the larger balcony....every deck is still pretty open for the Neptunes so we can pretty much go anywhere at this point so any advice is appreciated.

Are reservations for the first night in the CK made in advance or how does one go about taking advantage of this ? Is it always offered?