CRZR58

We liked Reflection way more than Equinox. Better food, service and Wine Stewards on Refection. There were more people, but it just seemed to be better run all round to us.

We were on Equinox in November.

Didn't think the MDR was very good. Food, service and wine stewards were below X standards by a long shot. Think large banquet and you'll be happy. Think fine dining and you won't.

We used select dining and we did the reservations online prior to boarding. IMO that's the way to go if you want to dine between 6:30 PM and 8:30 PM and not have to wait to get a table. (Still had to wait the first 2 nights, but hopefully they've gone to 2 lines (With and Without Reservations) like Reflection.

Didn't do any specialty dining on Equinox, but we loved the Tuscan Grille on other ships. The upcharge, especially when you get a discount, is worth the far superior meal and service to us.

Ate dinner at the buffet once on Equinox. Food was good and we liked eating out under the stars at the back of the ship. Quieter than the MDR and the food quality was as good, maybe better. Of course you don't get the same service.

I've seen men in 'dress shorts' in the MDR on the first night of cruises and I've seen men trying to get in and failing when they wear 'dress shorts' after the first night.

Our best cruise by far was our first cruise on Windstar. Small ship. Took 5 minutes to embark/debark and tendering only took a few minutes. Amazing service and food. Turned the engines off one night and we actually sailed for a while. It was magical.

What criteria, in your opinion, would justify them rounding up people and questioning them? If you look like someone on a security camera that is a person of interest in an investigation, do you not feel that is justification to question that individual? I guess I am trying to find out from you where you feel that line is? There has to be some point when it is acceptable for security to investigate a complaint.

 

 

 

You do understand that the sea pass is not infallible? I have been on cruises where they had to page passengers because it was past all aboard and there was no record of them returning to the ship. However, they were on board, but due to a technical issue, the scanning of their sea pass was not logged properly.

As I stated before. Security should investigate every complaint. That's not the same as saying Security should round up folks who look like a complainants description and interrogate them before doing some or even a lot of investigation.

Nothing is infallible and security not being able to do their job in checking people back on board is not a good reason to round folks up and interrogate them.

Lets try another route... I doubt that either of us believe that the security folks simply listened to the OP then let him go on because they believed his story. If they had anything tying him to the incident, they would have used it. I suspect that they listened to his story, checked it out, then let him go. All I'm saying is that's the wrong order.

It's obvious we won't change each others minds, so lets agree to disagree on this and move on. :cool:

Again, how do you know they didn't eliminate many suspects? If they narrowed it down to 10 men on that ship that's pretty darn good. You have every reason to believe the OP's story (and I do as well of course) but RCI does not. He obviously looked very much like the alleged perpetrator. Probably his clothing. Seapass cards are not going to tell them where he is every moment.

 

He said he was taking a nap in his room after a day in port. He could have been back on the boat for a few hours at that point along with another 1000 men. Which is possibly when it happened and once he was back on the boat they have no clue where he was... so they asked him. And let him go.

I'm sure they eliminated most of the passengers. We only 'know' of 2 cruisers who were pulled in for questioning. For me, it's a question of what's reasonable. If the description was a black man with dark hair, would it be reasonable for security to round up all the black men with dark hair and question them? I don't think so, even if there are only 2 or 3 black men on board. (Note that I'm a 60 year old white guy)

I'm amazed at how people have no problem with security simply rounding up folks who may look like a kids description of someone who may or may not have said/done something inappropriate. I've never been detained, but if I was, I'd expect that they had a reasonable reason to detain me and just looking like a description isn't enough especially when you have a finite number of people on board, tons of cameras, and a pass to show if you were even on board at the time of the incident. Other people may have no problem as long as the description doesn't match themselves.

To answer part of the question, on a few ships I have been on, "children" are allowed in the spa if they are 16 and over. So this quite possibly could have been a 16 or 17 year old girl/boy. Also they may have just been passing through.

 

Second, I cannot even imagine what a task it would be to "Pull up each person who might match the description to eliminate men who weren't in the spa." How many thousands of people are on the ship? You can't tell who is who from comparing a security video to 4000 sea pass cards when people look alike. And going through the entire ship's security photos to track each and every one of those people to see where they are? That would take months. It's just not realistic with the time frame they were looking at on a cruise ship.

 

I would be curious why they thought he matched the description. And how they chose the people they chose to question. It must have been a pretty detailed description. But well never know.

I think you are vastly overstating the problem of pulling up each person who matches the description. Off the top of my head, you can instantly eliminate, Women, Kids, Wrong age group, Wrong ethnicity, everyone who wasn't on board or was using their card in a different part of the ship during the incident. The more detailed the description, the more passengers you could easily and quickly eliminate.

The OP heard of 1 other passenger who was detained and questioned. Surely it wouldn't take much time for Security to figure out where 2 or 3 people were during the time frame before bringing them in.

I'm sure that RCI's security wouldn't sit on any inappropriate conduct towards a child. That leaves 2 possibilities. Either the kid didn't report the alleged incident until way after it happened or the more likely option that the alleged incident happened on the same day as the OP was detained. If the more likely option is true, the seacard may have proven he was off the ship at the time of the incident or the cameras may have proven he was in his cabin.

If we assume that security went through the video before detaining anyone and found a picture of a person of interest from around the time of the alleged incident and the OP looked like a guy who looked into a camera, it's most likely that they would have shown him the video at some time during their interrogation. As they didn't, I assume that they brought folks in for questioning before eliminating them, rather than the other way around.

As we weren't there and don't know the actual outcome of the investigation, we can't know if anyone acted inappropriately towards a child or not. All we have is security telling the OP that a child made a complaint. If RCI doesn't enforce it's own rules, which are in part to protect children, they could be held partially responsible.

IMO every complaint should be investigated thoroughly and every effort should be made to eliminate suspects before detaining them. If you detain the wrong person and you didn't have any evidence to detain them in the first place, a simple sorry isn't good enough.

How do you know they didn't do that? Unless the person was off the ship at the time or using their seapass card at that exact moment on the other side of the ship there's no way to know for sure whether or not they were in the area. From what the OP has posted he was never given an exact time frame.

From the OP's first post: "I told them that I hadn't even been in the spa the entire time I was on the ship". As I said, I have no reason not to believe his account of the story. The seapass has a record of pretty much everything you do while you are on board and the cameras should show who was and wasn't in the Spa at the time of the alleged incident.

Interesting read for sure.

I don't think RCI security acted properly. The first thing that security should have done was to pull up each person who 'might match the description' and eliminate men who weren't in the spa at the time of the alleged incident. Assuming the OP is telling the truth, and I have no reason not to believe him, then he would have been eliminated and wouldn't have encountered any problems. Detaining suspects for a 'talk' before finding out if they were even there at the time is backwards and what caused the trouble in the first place.

One question that I don't think was answered yet... On RCI, are children allowed to be unaccompanied by adults in the Spa? If the answer is no, then the original problem resulted from RCI not enforcing their own rules.

I suggest that you re-read your original post. You didn't suggest thousands, you typed it!

What I typed was: "You and you're partner won't be dressed to the nines, causally strolling to the theater with a few similarly dressed folks. You will be pushing your way through a giant yard sale with between 100's and thousands of other folks some dressed up, some not." That's not the same as saying "thousands of people lining up outside the theater, 30 minutes before show or you don't get a seat".

FTR: Thousands might be overstating it for effect, but there are 2886 cruisers and another 1500 staff. Not all the people you are going to see are going to the theater. Some are there for the yard sale. Some are simply going from point A to point B. Some are staff.

Any compensation that the customer is happy with is good enough.

I checked on Celebrity's site today and it looks like I made a mistake about 18% being added on to the specialty restaurants cost. You're right, the 18% is added to the drinks portion only. (We must have drank more than I remembered in specialty restaurants.)

 

 

We were surprised when they started the "additional cost add-ons" in the Tuscan! So you are paying extra on top of extra on top of your cruise fare...which already includes food. We are still waiting for "Lisa" to start charging extra for using the elevators ("insert your cruise card and it will be added to your onboard account).

LOL.

 

I can see it now. You get X number of 'basic' elevator trips with you're cruise depending on which level of cabin you choose. Then they sell you several different levels of elevator packages from standard to classic to premium. During 'Prime Elevator' time, you'd get charged more and you could go over even your premium package if you used the elevators too often and of course there would be an additional charge for that.

 

I'm sure they'd sell it as being good for you as it encourages you to take the stairs. :D

I think there is a difference between problems that are beyond the control of the company like weather and problems caused by the company like overbooking or charters. There's also a difference between cancelling a trip that's a year away over one that's coming up soon.

In all cases, the company should make the customer whole at the very minimum. That's everything they've paid the company plus all non-refundable cost incurred by the customer. Examples: Non-refundable airline tickets and Non-refundable hotel costs.

If the trip is a year or more away or weather related, then a gesture of good will would be prudent. 10-20% off of another trip if they keep your down payment for example.

If the trip is closer and the problem was caused by the company or a mechanical failure, which is ultimately the company's responsibility, then simply making the customer whole isn't enough. You want to make it less expensive to the company to fix it's mistakes, then it is to continue to make decisions that make them more money by punishing their customers.

As for Trip Insurance... It shouldn't be the customers responsibility or cost to protect themselves from the cruise companies mistakes or policies.

Kind of sounds like you're either ready for another cruiseline, or perhaps a land based vacation. As to the upcharge for Prime dry aged Porterhouse, it's not offered all the time. Please try to be a little more "truthful" on the 18% service charge as you call it. If it's for a drink, it is there because not everyone drinks. The bar staff do NOT share in the daily gratuity. The price you pay for dining in the specialty rest. includes the gratuity. There is a line for "extra" gratuity, but only if you feel the service warrants it. We always tip extra..2 reasons: 1)we're in the business. 2)The service has always been outstanding. Your daily gratuity covers everything else on board..Your waiter/asst.waiter/ the staff preparing your food/your cabin attendant & so on.

I checked on Celebrity's site today and it looks like I made a mistake about 18% being added on to the specialty restaurants cost. You're right, the 18% is added to the drinks portion only. (We must have drank more than I remembered in specialty restaurants.)

I still think newbies should know that the $45 USD per person charge over top of the money they've already paid for sit down service in the MDR likely not the end of the extra charges. You can order wine on your package if you have one, but a bottle's going to cost extra and there are additional charges for some of the menu items then you have an additional tips space on top of all that.

I don't consider myself a cheerleader but I do consider myself an experienced cruiser. I don't mind people voicing their criticisms BUT if you're going to criticize at least make your criticisms accurate. I.E. thousands of people lining up outside the theater, 30 minutes before show or you don't get a seat, no where to lay out ( you don't need to be by the pool BTW, plenty of other places) etc.etc. Those are not my experiences that that poster describes.

I'm assuming you're talking about what I typed.

FTR:

I didn't say there would be thousands of people lining up outside the theater or that you won't get a seat if you don't show up 30 minutes before the show. The truth is that there are a lot of people all trying to get a seat at the same time. Your progress is slowed down by the almost nightly sidewalk sale. If you show up 10 minutes before the curtain, you very likely won't get a good seat unless someone is holding one for you.

I also didn't say there would be no where to lay out in the sun. I said that the chairs by the pool, where I and obviously a lot of others want to be, are mostly taken by 8 AM. You can't beat the chair hogs unless you get there early.

Forewarned is forearmed.

I think you have become hard-liner on this stuff and it's time for you to take a break and go on some land based vacations for awhile. You've definitely lost the main enjoyment of being on a cruise and that is being out on the open ocean enjoying the vistas and going to far away places. I do hope you enjoy your next vacation wherever it may be.

My next Vacation has already been booked. It's a 2 week all inclusive on the beach in Cabo. Total cost is less than an 7 day OV in a regular cabin on Celebrity when you add in everything (Air, 1 night Hotel, Transfers to/from airport, Port Fees, Gratuities etc) except the booze package.

I'm trying to set my expectations properly...

I know it will be a much larger room with an ocean view. I expect that the food won't be quite as good as some of the food on Celebrity, but I can always go out to a restaurant if I want the specialty restaurant experience and I know I will ;). My excursion costs will be similar to the cost of non-Celebrity excursions.

I'll miss the being out on the sea part, but I won't miss the embarkation, debarkation, the cattle call for the excursions or the eye roll I got from the Wine Steward when I had the audacity to politely ask him to bring the wine I actually ordered on my last cruise. I hope their won't be Art Auctions, constant up charges, sidewalk sales, chain by the foot or $100 watches being sold off for only $20 on the last night.

I expect there will be sales folks on the beach, chair hogs and noisy areas at the pool(s). I expect that the nightly entertainment won't be Broadway class, but they will try hard. I hope the waiters won't be run off their feet.

I'd like to comment on the folks who are on Cruise Critic.... I think we are a good cross section of all cruisers. I don't believe that the 95% of cruisers who don't post here are all happy with their trips any more than I believe that they all have had similar issues that I have. I expect that there are many different versions of the cruise experience even on the same cruise on the same ship.

I think that you can take all the posts here with a grain of salt or maybe even a bunch of salt. On one end of the spectrum, you have the Cheerleaders. They think that everything is great and they don't want you to read anything bad about cruising in general or in this case Celebrity in particular. They love to paint everyone who doesn't completely agree with them as just being negative and would love it if we'd just go away. On the other end you have the Eeyores for whom nothing will ever be good enough. In the middle lies the toad of truth (Big Band Theory reference). Read and decide for yourself. I think you will find that there is a lot of good info around here.

To OP:

Celebrity's food and service has gone way downhill IMO in the last couple of years, but as you weren't cruising a couple of years ago, you won't notice the changes.

IMO, It's about realistic expectations.

You will find the cruising is way different than the ads show... You and you're partner won't be dressed to the nines, causally strolling to the theater with a few similarly dressed folks. You will be pushing your way through a giant yard sale with between 100's and thousands of other folks some dressed up, some not. You'll be going to want to get there about 30 minutes before the show to get good seats. Shows aren't going to be Broadway good, but they try real hard.

You won't see just a few folks around the pool on sea days casually enjoying themselves. You will need to get up at 8 AM to even get seats around the pool on Sea days. Take other peoples stuff off of their 'hogged' seats... expect a really angry encounter when their owners come back hours later.

If you do Select Dining, make sure you make reservations online for at least the first couple of nights or you'll be waiting in a long line in the MDR between 6-8 PM. We book all the nights in advance and have only had to wait in long lines a couple of times when they didn't have a reservations and a non-reservations line.

Pick up a drink or a wine at the bar before you go in so the Wine Steward doesn't have to bother with you right away. They are now way overworked and having to actually run to get to all the tables they are assigned.

Expect to be within a foot of the next table, especially if you want a table for two.

Expect that some of the food will be great, some good, and some not even worth eating. Note that ordering the same thing on different nights can result in very different meals.

Expect the MDR to be better than 'Olive Garden at sea'. Think large banquet hall and you should be happy.

Tip: Cafe Al Bacio has better deserts than most in the MDR and you can get a good after dinner Cappuccino with good service. You will need your classic booze package so you don't have to pay extra.

As you aren't Elite, you won't get a lot of the perks others type about. If you don't go Aqua Class, you won't get into some places like Blu. If you don't go with a suite, you won't get into places like Luminae. Basically, there are several levels of the same cruise and you have to choose beforehand which level you can afford or are willing to pay for.

If you really enjoy a good meal, then you'll want to budget extra money to go to specialty restaurants. Think that the upcharge for the specialty restaurants is all you're going to pay? Nope, you're going to want some wine which isn't included and there are even upcharges for specific meals like $18 extra for a USDA Prime Dry Aged Porterhouse and of course the mandatory 18% service charge over and above the mandatory gratuities you pay for daily.

Hopefully everything will go well with your cruise, because the 'Service' desk tries hard and says all the right things, but they are pretty much useless.

Don't get bothered by the drink servers who don't get to you very often. Just get up and go to the bar and order yourself. It's quicker and you'll likely need some exercise anyway.

Assume that the "What's in the next port" talks are really sales opportunities and that the companies they highlight have paid Celebrity for being mentioned.

Assume that the shore excursions from Celebrity will be more expensive than buying the same thing at the port, because Celebrity takes it's cut for selling them. Also assume that their will be a lot of folks on each excursion, which may or may not be true of the one's you buy on your own.

Don't assume, like the cruise cheerleaders, that all the folks who don't post are happy campers. Some are. Some aren't.

Lastly... With realistic expectations, you should still be able to have a great time.

How things have changed!

When I was growing every adult took the "It takes a village to raise a child" approach. They felt it was their responsibility, no duty, to correct any child they came across for what ever they thought needed to be 'corrected'. My parents always asked us 'What did you do' and apologized to the adult who 'corrected' us for our behavior.

Nowadays, other adults aren't allowed to correct children's behavior. Heck, a lot of parents don't even correct their own kids let alone anyone else's. If I even speak sharply to a misbehaving child, I know I'm going to get the wrath of their parents as well as the eye roll from my wife, who is a much nicer person than I am. She prefers to complain about other people's kids in private.

It's not about hating kids. It's about correct bad behaviors. If their parents correct them... that's great. If not, and they are bothering me or doing something dangerous, then I'm going to correct them myself even knowing the consequences.

We agree with the idea that the MDR food has gone down in quality and in number of different options.

Too many tables for the staff to properly take care of their patrons means BYOB when you come into the restaurant and 1 glass of wine that shows up sometime during dinner (Not necessarily the one we even ordered). The deserts were so similar every night that we started going to El Bacio where we got better deserts and a good Cappuccino.

Nothing specifically for a younger crowd. The pool Volleyball only happens once per cruise for exactly 45 minutes. There is also a Crew vs Guests Volleyball game for 45 minutes on another sea day. We usually hang around the pool and have some wobbly pops. We aren't interested in Bingo or games in the game room. The 'talks' about the next port are generally just sales jobs as are the auctions and the yard sales on the way to the theater.

Evenings are passed by having a nice dinner, going to the show, and then maybe a drink or two at one of the bars. Their is a 'Silent Disco' that can be fun on one or two nights. Not many folks around after 10 PM on our last 2 Celebrity trips.

We had drinks added to our bill that we didn't consume. Customer service first said that we must have ordered them then took them off our bill after they went to check if we'd actually signed for them which of course we hadn't. We now check our bill on the TV each morning so it's easy for the staff to check the last nights chits.

We're 60 and most folks on our last 3 Celebrity trips appear to be older than us. Lots of motorized scooters and folks with movement issues. That's not to say that there aren't younger folks on board, but they are definitely in the minority.

Dressing up for the 'Chic' nights is still pretty prevalent, although it's not as dressy as it used to be and not as many folks dress up as much as they used to. Collared shirts and 'big boy' or long pants for the men. Pretty much anything other than beach wear for the ladies.

We've been on select the last 2 trips and love it. We've never been given a buzzer and we always show up about 5 minutes prior to our reservation time.

On Reflection, there were 2 lines. One for reservations. One for no reservations. It worked great. No waiting at all for select dining. On Equinox (Nov 2016) there was one line for both and we had to wait in the line to get seated. Longest wait was about 15-20 minutes on the first 2 nights.

Don't try to get cash for tips on the last night from Customer Service. I tried on my last trip and they told me I had to use the ATM even tho they gave cash to the lady in front of me. Meant I had to go back to the cabin, get my wallet and pay the stupid ATM fee to give out the extra tips. Not onerous, but poor customer service IMO.