johnrich

Okay, bit of history here from someone who was part of the original Pride of America project (though transferred to Aloha when POA sank in Germany) and was part of the program for 4 years.

 

 

 

What Wiki doesn't say about the POA's acquisition by NCL, is that they got it from the US government, which was on the hook for the construction loan guarantees to Hawaiian American Lines, so NCL helped out the US taxpayers by assuming the construction loan in exchange for finishing the ship overseas and being allowed to "flag in" two ships with PVSA exemptions.

 

 

 

Actually, the restriction on the NCL ships does not preclude carrying passengers outside of Hawaii, when travelling to/from a mainland shipyard. Which is why POA had the West Coast to Hawaii cruise last year, returning from the yard.

 

 

 

As to building a new cruise ship in the US, as much of a proponent of US flag shipping as I am, I know that it really isn't a feasible scenario. A poster mentioned Newport News, and while this yard has the physical capability to build a cruise ship, they do not have the experience to do so, and the biggest problem is that the yard hasn't built a commercial ship in 40 years. Building for the US Navy and building for a profit based company are two totally different things, and for the most part, shipyards in the US cannot compete in cost or experience (time) with overseas yards to produce a ship that is economically viable. Only the protections of the Jones Act and the PVSA make US built ships feasible. I work on Jones Act ships, and even with everything but the hull steel being built overseas and shipped to the US yard pre-assembled, the ships cost twice as much as a comparable ship built overseas.

 

 

 

As to finishing a cruise ship overseas, that becomes tricky, as the percentage of the ship and equipment that is US built is fixed, so not sure if that would work. Also, European shipyards don't build the cabin modules, they are built by subcontractors, in many cases far from an ocean, and trucked to the yard, and we don't have that infrastructure in the US (the subcontractors who are geared up to produce these modules in bulk).

 

 

 

NCL lost money on the three US flag ships, mainly due to poor planning for US crew, building capacity too quickly, and excessive competition from the other cruise lines. NCL didn't, and to an extent, still don't know how to deal with US labor, though it is getting better. Not only are wages and benefits much higher than international crew, but the training and documentation costs are much higher, running around $8-10k per crew member, prior to them even reporting onboard. I firmly believe that going from one US flag ship (as noted, the Star was doing Hawaiian runs at the time as well) to 3 in just over 2 years was too fast, and outstripped demand for an unknown product. Finally, when the other cruise lines saw the prices NCL was commanding for their Hawaiian cruises, they brought a 500% increase in their Hawaiian cruises over the period when NCL had 3 ships, which forced NCL to drop cabin prices to where they were losing money.

 

 

 

As to longer cruises with a US flag ship, NCL's current round Hawaii 7 day cruises cost about as much as a 14 day cruise from the West Coast on a foreign flag ship, despite the longer cruise using 5-6 times as much fuel as the NCL cruise. If you did a West Coast cruise on a US flag ship, no one would book it because it would be 2-3 times as expensive as a foreign flag cruise of the same itinerary, with only a stop in Vancouver or Ensenada to comply with PVSA. Even uniall's proposed itinerary includes Mexican ports, so there is no incentive to use a US flag ship.

 

 

 

As to "re-using" the Jade as a US flag ship, no, once a PVSA exemption is given up, it must be re-applied for, and there has to be a good reason for granting it, and in the case of the Jade and Sky, this was specifically prohibited in the initial legislation.

 

 

 

POA is only 15 years old, so she is just now getting to the point where she is required to drydock twice in 5 years, instead of allowing an underwater inspection in lieu of the mid-period drydocking, and the cost and extent of surveys during the shipyard periods gets greater with age, but I suspect she will be around for at least another 10 years. What happens after that? They will probably try to keep her running, much as Hawaiian American kept the Constitution and Independence running long after they should have been retired. There is just about no hope that I can see of building a ship in the US that would in any way be profitable.

 

 

 

As to "doing away with the Jones Act", the cruise industry could care less about the Jones Act, since that act only deals with cargo ships. As to doing away with the PVSA, CLIA has stated that none of their members (all of the major cruise lines) have any interest in even modifying the PVSA, as it would have a minimal impact on their bottom line, and may trigger more restrictions on foreign flag cruises out of the US.

 

 

 

As to the POA being a "cash cow", that is just not correct. Even at the elevated fares the ship charges, the ship just barely breaks even on the cabin fares, and the profit is in onboard revenue. Many have quoted Kevin Sheehan's comments at the time about getting the Hawaiian operation "more profitable" than it was, but when you compare that with losing $174 million a year, even breaking even is "more profitable".

 

 

 

As to "enlarging" an existing foreign flag ship, and "getting it approved", the only way you will get around the US built content rule is to have a reason that Congress will respond to, like bailing them out of the construction loan on POA. Short of that, you aren't going to get an exemption.

Thank you so much for constantly “teaching” us about cruise ships and the industry. I really enjoy your posts. They are ALWAYS interesting!

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We did the laundry deal on the Epic last month. We sent it out on Tuesday morning and it was to be returned by Thursday evening. We actually had it back Tuesday night! One of the items was a pair of white pants that had a stain on them. They got the stain out. None of our items had tags on them either.

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The Getaway is our favorite ship.

We recommend seeing Howl at the Moon. Each show is different.

We loved Million Dollar Quartet.

Have breakfast in O’Sheehans once for a change from the buffet or MDR. Lunch also!

Relax with a book on the Waterfront.

Enjoy your cruise!

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Maybe NCL will run the Pick All 5 promo again for Christmas week

 

There were promos about the time of Thanksgiving (Black Friday) keep checking from Christmas thru New Years

 

for more and January 1 for the start of the new year and Insider Offers.

 

 

 

Also scratch your TA try sourcing with a major website like AAA - there are dozens more out there with better

 

programs incentives miles points OBC. Unless your TA works with you 24/7/365 your time is better spent elsewhere.

 

 

 

Also make note of the Elliott.org website for problem cruise solutions - who to contact and how to do it effectively !

I am hoping that they do offer the promos again for Christmas. I have been watching.

I am an AAA member and used them for one of my cruises to Alaska. The TA was very responsive but I could get more “perks” elsewhere. I started using a major online agency but they don’t participate in the upgrade program so I finally had NCL assign me a PCC. I am going to try AAA again if they participate in Upgrade Advantage.

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If you emailed and still have copies as proof that you contacted before they changed the promo's and your PCC never responded I would call NCL and ask to speak to a supervisor. Explain what happened, nicely of course and see if they will still honor it. If that does not work check out the emails at http://www.elliott.org/company-contacts/norwegian-cruise-line-ncl/ Chris Elliott is a customer service advocate and you can read more there about what to do. You never know what NCL might say, worse they can say is no they can't.

Thank you for the info. I never heard of him before. I will definitely check with a customer service supervisor and then check on Elliott’s website. Thanks again!

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Does this include transportation to the terminal?

Yes it does. Both the Hilton Garden Inn and the Hampton Inn in Ridgefield Park offer Park, stay, and cruise packages. We just booked the Hampton. It was $299 but includes parking for 8 days, breakfast buffet, and round trip transportation to/from the cruise terminal for 3 people.

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You need to get a different PCC.

I may just try to find a TA and have the next two reservations transferred. I do so much on my own though. I hate that they get credit when I do most of the legwork.

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Yes. When you do a NORMAL room/cabin/booking change - it is usually at the current pricing and current promos. So, sometimes it works out. Sometimes you save money. Sometimes it costs more.

Thanks. That’s what I was afraid of. What is aggravating is that I contacted my PCC before the Pick All 5 Promo was over to upgrade but he never got back to us. Then I contacted him again but still no response.

Maybe NCL will run the Pick All 5 promo again for Christmas week and I’ll just call the regular number instead of my PCC.

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We booked a balcony cabin when NCL was running their Pick All 5 promotion. If we wanted to upgrade (not bid just normal upgrade) to a spa balcony, would we get to keep all five promos or would we have to give up some since the current promo is only 2? I’ve emailed my PCC at NCL twice asking and he hasn’t responded. TIA for your help.

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We were on the Escape in Sept of this year and then on Epic in November. On Escape you could wear shorts in the Manhattan Dining Room but on Epic you were supposed to wear long pants.

It would be nice if there was some consistency between the ships within NCL. Having been on GA (twice) and Escape before we were on the Epic, we were surprised when a waiter on the bar side of O’Sheehans told us he couldn’t wait on us because the hostess did not seat us (and there were several empty tables and no line at the hostess stand on the restaurant side of the ship).

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Trinityreservations.com has a Park/sleep for 3 people at the Ramada Plaza for $168 tax included or Springhill Suites for $186 tax included with breakfast.

 

 

 

Did you look at the park/sleep/cruise packages at the Hilton Gardens and Hampton Inn in Ridgefield Park NJ? These provide the parking, hotel room and round trip port transportation.

Thanks so much 138east! I booked the Hampton Inn Ridgefield Park today. Ended up being $299. That includes the hotel, parking while we’re on the cruise, breakfast, and round trip transportation to the Cruise Terminal. We love SpringHill Suites and usually stay at hotels under the Marriott umbrella but I read some good reviews on some other sites about this Hampton Inn and like that they have the shuttle to pick us up and bring us back. Less worrying about Uber.

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We will be sailing from the Manhattan Cruise Terminal on NCL Escape. We are thinking of driving in the day before. If we stay near Newark Airport, will we be close enough to get an Uber or Lyft to the terminal on a Sunday morning? (I checked Uber’s fare estimate and it states ~$45). We chose Newark as they have several hotels that offer the park, sleep, and fly packages and we thought that would be cheaper than leaving the car parked at the terminal for the whole week.

Any suggestions or other ideas would be appreciated.

Thanks!

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On the Epic last week the slots were open but the cashier and tables were closed when we went through around 10 am. Later around 2 when we got back onboard the cage was open and there were a couple tables open.

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Disembarked in Port Canaveral this past Saturday. No customs forms. Did self walk off and handed the agent our three passports. He handed them right back and said “Welcome Home. Have a nice day!”

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When booking a spa mini-suite, do all guests in the room get free access to the Thermal Spa or is it just the first two guests? TIA

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I'm on the Epic now. Once onboard you can book tender tickets via the touch screens around the ship, your cabin television, the entertainment booking/box office desk or the iConcierge phone app. Those I know for sure. Maybe also the shore excursion desk but I don't know about that one.

 

Be aware though that not everything always works as it should. For example I was able to book my Grand Cayman tender tickets via any the above methods, however Great Stirrup Cay tenders did not show up on any of the do-it-yourself systems, and I had to go down to the box office to book those.

Glad it wasn’t just us. We were also able to book our Grand Cayman tender tickets but not GSC. We tried in room, on app, and at a kiosk and gave up. Didn’t bother going to the box office. We just assumed it was going to be a free for all like many things this week were.

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I know you asked about Breakaway but we are currently on Epic and we were at GSC today. They had to stop tendering halfway into it for about an hour due to rough seas but then started them again.

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We actually did the Falmouth Historic Trolley Tour while we were there. We really enjoyed it. We then spent two hours or so “exploring” the port. It was relaxing.

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Also, I did not post the paper, but on Monday evening of the cruise we received the flyer for the “Laundry Special.” Wash, dry, and fold a bag of laundry for $19.95. Directions said to leave it on your bed by noon on Tuesday and it would be delivered by Thursday evening. We did do this, but ours was back in our room the same evening (Tuesday).

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What terminal at PC was the Epic docked?

 

How was the embarkation? I've heard in the past its mass chaos at times. Do you remember when they started boarding?

 

Thanks for the Dailies! Hope you enjoyed your trip

 

 

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It was docked at Terminal 10.

Our embarkation was mass chaos but I honestly don’t blame NCL. The ship was returning from its summer home in Barcelona. It was originally scheduled to stop in St. Thomas so it would have cleared customs there. However due to Irma it could not, so Port Canaveral was the first US Port. From what I was told from crew and B2B guests the ship actually was cleared to start sending crew and pax to customs/immigration at 4:30 AM but CBP only had 5 agents to handle everyone. All crew and pax had to go through it. We were told that because of the riots and problems in Barcelona the CBP agents were being extra careful as well. We got to the port at 1:00, got into the building at 2:00, but then stood in line without seats (with my 83 yr old MIL who has bad knees) until 3:30 when they finally started boarding. At 6:30, while we were at dinner, they were still announcing for crew members to report to a place to go through customs.

From what we’ve been told by several different guests who’d been on Epic before, they usually start boarding around noon. It is a little later than other ports/other ships, but not normally as chaotic as this week was.

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Disembarkation Info

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Day 7 Great Stirrup Cay

Note: GSC is not handicap accessible, per se. The Access Officer informed us that we cannot take MIL’s personal wheelchair even if we fold it up because the island is all sand and no walkways to use it. I was surprised because I thought the pictures after Irma showed some walkways. We have never been to GSC, so we shall see once we get there. In the meantime the Access Officer said there are Beach wheelchairs available to get from point A to point B but then you have to get out of it for others to use it.

Dailies are in the next port.

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Thanks so much for posting the Freestyle Dailies! We are cruising on the Epic sailing 9 Dec 17 so these will be a big help in planning. Question about Falmouth, Jamaica: was Falmouth on your original itinerary, or was that a change from Ocho Rios? Thanks again!

Our original itinerary was St. Thomas, Tortola, and Great Stirrup Cay, but it was changed to these ports due to Hurricane Irma.

We had been to Falmouth on the first ship to dock there in 2011. We hated it and said we’d never go back. Kinda glad that we ended up there because it was totally different. It was great to see the improvements in the dock/port area (they were still in the process of building it when we were there the first time) but in the infrastructure of the surrounding areas as well. You can definitely tell that tourism money has helped the area.

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Thank you for posting these, we're on the Epic this Saturday. Is the Abba party an actual party or is it a show? And also I saw that there is a resteraunt open 24 hours do you know what they might have for late nite snacking. Thanks so much.

 

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We just peeked in for the ABBA party and it was just music and dancing.

O’Sheehans is the Irish Pub open 24 hrs. They have a limited menu of wings, nachos, etc late night.

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