AnhaltER1960

Just an update: It has rained in Bohemia and there is some wave coming down the Elbe. Will be seen tomorrow in Dresden with the gauge rising by a foot or two. So the next cruises will be safe to sail.

7 hours ago, deec said:

thank you so very much for your research!!!  We really would like to do this itinerary BUT are reluctant to pay Viking prices for a bus tour.  Your research has confirmed that perhaps the Elbe is not the way to experience this beautiful part of Germany.

Sail in May and go away 🙂

On 4/21/2024 at 6:48 PM, deec said:

Has anyone kept track from the last couple of years of how often the Viking ships can not complete the itinerary?

(part II)

2018 turned out to become a dismal year - disruptions from June with cruises converted into bus tours. Later all sailings from August until the end of the season in November had been completely cancelled, all due to low water.

2019 started fine, but bad news started in Mid-June and lasted until beginning of October. In between bus tours due to low water.

2020 did not see any sailing at all, but that was not the river's fault... Water levels would have allowed sailing all year. 

For 2021 Viking have proactively changed their plans and did not offer sailings from July to September, but a boatel+bus trip instead during those months. All those plans had been scapped by a small virus (maybe also by reluctant customers). Viking finally started operations in October and sailed until Xmas. Again, the water levels would have allowed sailings for most of the year, maybe even throughout the year.

2022 saw a lot of water and a lot of sailings with the exception of roundabout two weeks in June. There werent any cruises scheduled between mid-July until mid-September.

Also in 2023 Viking had planned to suspend sailings between mid-July and mid-September. This was not enough - low water from mid-June until end of September forced Viking into bus mode a couple of weeks before and after the planned break.

On 4/21/2024 at 6:48 PM, deec said:

Has anyone kept track from the last couple of years of how often the Viking ships can not complete the itinerary?

Apparently not, as you would have gotten an answer by now. And I am not sure, if Viking Basel will give you an answer, even, if you ask.... However, I felt challenged by that question. But it needed some time and some deep diving into my digital memory including the Elbe threads of past years. Still I am not able to give a cruise-sharp, even week-sharp answer. But a rough idea:

2016 was the year, when Viking have introduced their Elbe-"Longships" Astrild and Beyla, which still sail the Elbe now. Specifically designed for that river an a draft of around 85cm, so much shallower than the ships they had on the Elbe before, the Viking Schumann and Viking Fontane. And, what happened ? While the Beyla and the Astrild could sail all year, the Fontane and Schumann saw their cruises in September/October cancelled due to low water. Everything done right ?

In 2017 Viking withdrew the Fontane and Schumann and changed the itinerary. No more sailing from Magdeburg to Melnik, but only sailing from Wittenberg to Decin, cutting some 50/70 miles on either end.  So (roughly) the same amount of cruises offered with fewer ships. 2017 also saw big celebrations in Germany - 500 years of the reformation. And the Elbe cooperated smoothly, no disruptions.

(continued in part II)

19 hours ago, Microman123 said:

It seems the Viking Astrild is docked in Dresden a day earlier than its itinerary had indicated (according to Cruisemapper). I couldn't determine whether it actually made it all the way to Decin for a cruise that was supposed to start yesterday, with Elbe sailing to Bad Shandau today and Dresden tomorrow. Does this mean that Viking has started using the boat as a stationary hotel for bus trips already?

Not yet. Boatel mode means one ship berthed in Dresden, another one in Wittenberg. But since the Beyla is underway upriver, the Astrild will also move eventually downriver to Wittenberg (two ships in Dresden would not make sense). They might have skipped the Decin to Dresden part though - I dont have any information on that.

@Cg52 Indeed, last week is was all fine. But last week was last week.....

Now while parts of Germany in the west have too much water, flood at the Saar, the Elbe is getting critically low. Dresden reading is down to 81 cm, which is deep in the trouble zone. However, the Viking Beyla today left Wittenberg, as scheduled, to her upriver cruise. Hopefully some of the rain which inundated parts of southern and western Germany will make it into the Bohemian Basin, which would give relief to the Elbe. If not, it will not be far ahead, that also Viking will have to switch on the bus mode.

On 5/7/2024 at 1:20 AM, curmudgeon98 said:

My impression (from talking to the crew) is that the CroisiEurope boats are actually shallower draft than the Viking boats, but that at this time of year (through summer) they shift to keeping one boat for shorter cruises in the upper rivers in Czeckia, and use the other for cruises closer to the Baltic such as Hamburg->Berlin.

The ships ElbePrincesse and ElbePrincesse 2 of Croisi Europe and Viking Astrild/Beyla do have similar draft, give and take an inch. The difference is the itinerary. While CroisiEurope sail all the way from Berlin into Prague, Viking sail only from Wittenberg to Decin and do Berlin-Wittenberg and Decin-Prague by bus. So the Croisi schedule is more attractive, but also riskier in low water situations, like now. Croisi-s ships are stuck in the canal near Magdeburg and the lock-controlled part of the Elbe respectively and they have to do a lot of bussing in between.
Their summer schedule indeed avoids sailing the Elbe in summer and go on some canals in northern Germany instead, but we are by no standards in summer already.

On 5/3/2024 at 7:53 PM, notamermaid said:

That is not a good sign for May.

 

Indeed, I do not wish our Czech neighbours any bad. But it urgently needs one or two days of heavy rain there.

CroisiEurope are already in trouble and cannot sail the "open" Elbe; they sail only on the canal between Berlin and Magdeburg and in between the locks in the Czech Republic. In between there is a lot of bussing.

Viking are still sailing on schedule, no signs of trouble yet. But without rain this may not last too long.

7 hours ago, CDNPolar said:

Passau Salzburg Highlights Price: $385.00 CAD Duration: 9.50 Hours DEPASSEO04 Date: December 06, 2024 08:15 AM Available City of Mozart and “The Sound of Music” -- Drive with your guide past charming mountain villages, rolling hills and pristine lakes. Upon arrival in this glorious city, enjoy a guided walking tour of the Italianate Old Town, a UNESCO World Heritage Site known for its high-baroque architecture. Pass by the Hagenauer House at Getreidegasse 9, the birthplace of renowned classical composer Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, Salzburg’s favorite son; today, it is one of Austria’s most visited museums. See the Domplatz, dominated by the 249-foot 17th-century Dom and St. Peter’s Abbey, where Mozart premiered the Great Mass in C Minor in 1783. Savor lunch in Austria’s oldest restaurant, named for the church, as classically trained singers and musicians regale you with songs in the spirit of the musical.

Viking descriptions are accurate and worth being read carefully.

* Passau-Salzburg Nine and a half hours. Looking on the map you will see a distance of 120 km (approx. 75 miles) and not much motorway. So expect a two and half hours busride (one way), leaving a bit over four hours in town.

* There will be a lunch with some singers performing, thats another one and a half hours.

* Guided walking tour "passing by" (=no inside visit) the Mozart house, "see the Domplatz" (from where ?) dominated by two churches, that also does not promise guided inside tours of those churches.

Viking usually give some free time, together with the guided tour that leaves a net time of maybe two and a half hours in town.

The programme "Romantic Danube" starts/ends in Regensburg. From there it is an easy (and cheap) 3 hrs- trainride to Salzburg, which is a small and compact city perfect for a DIY at the beginning or the end of your cruise. 

After a long period without rain ( see notamermaids post #42) there had been a bit of rain in the recent two weeks, which stabilised the Elbe water levels at a level, which is a bit below the long-time average. Ups and downs at Dresden are controlled by water releases from the czech dams, apparently supporting ships downstream, which need it (so there is still enough water upstream to do that). 

Cruise ships are affected differently, depending on their itinerary. Viking sail the Elbe between Wittenberg and Decin (covering Berlin-Wittenberg and Decin-Prague by coach) and do not have any problems right now. Croisieurope sail all the way from Prague to Berlin and they are already in trouble, as they cannot negotiate the stretch from Decin upriver to Usti (where the first -or last if looking the other direction- Czech barrier is located; thus have to do ship swaps now.

3 hours ago, Microman123 said:

What is the "too low" level at Dresden? We board the Viking Astrild on May 17th, so I'm starting to watch the details. Thank-you

In the last years trouble for the Viking ships started at Dresden readings below 90 cm. Keep in mind, these are readings of a fixed gauge against the water table, not the measurement of the depth of the water channel.

4 hours ago, Allieup said:

Are they still offering those excursions?

Yes, they do. They might ask for a minimum of, say, 5 pax to run a "leisurely" group. You will be asked to book on board.

On 3/31/2024 at 4:23 PM, Cg52 said:

We are sailing the Viking Elegant Elbe early May. No tours are included for Decin. Does anyone have any suggestions for while we are there?

 

also, should we expect water level concerns at that time of year? And can you recommend a site to follow for this?

 

Thanks in advance

Early May is usually not a time for concern about water levels. But what is usual with weather these days ? After an exceptionally wet winter with high water we say an almost completely dry March brought the water levels down to the long time average (see the post by notamermaid yesterday). No concern for sailing, but another dry month will make things look differently. Too early to give reliable predictions. Just follow this blog here... 
As far as Decin is concerned. Decin is located on both banks of the Elbe and rather an industry town and transportation hub. Not much of an historical old town. On the right bank of the Elbe there is a Renaissance castle, which looks more impressive from the outside than from the inside - it was military barracks since the 1930ies and ruined inside. They did some renovations in the last years, but you will see better buildings during your cruise.
On the other side of the river there is a massive rock with a white mansion on top, there also is a small zoo. The mansion houses a restaurant, their quality does not match the view though. But the view is really hard to beat. Quite steep walking, cab might be an alternative.
 

Rush hour on the Elbe, Easter Monday at Wittenberg: The Elbe Princesse 2 (Croisi Europe) pulls out of Wittenberg en route to her next stop at Magdeburg, passing the Viking Astrild, just berthed at Wittenberg after having completed her Elbe sailing.
Both parties will end up in Berlin - Croisi by boat on the Elbe to Magdeburg and canal to Berlin, Viking guests by bus to Berlin directly after a stop in Potsdam.
PS @ curmudgeon98 : If I calculated correctly, that is the Elbe cruise you reported about.

On 3/9/2024 at 4:10 AM, stlrod said:

We have heard good things about the Rhine and it looks interesting, especially the Black Forest. 

Be aware that the Black Forest hills are 10 miles away from the river and you might just see some shadowy hills on the horizon even on a relatively clear day. So you can see it only on a bus tour and theses tours just scratch the surface. To see the Black Forest a land tour is the better option.

In fact, as far as scenery is concerned, there is the stretch of the Rhine between Cologne/Bonn and Mainz, which is interesting/spectacular. That is one day of sailing out of ? The other parts are flat territory with sometimes a village or a city behind the dyke or hills in the distance, but a lot of interesting cities. Douro has landscape all the way, but no big cities apart from Porto and Salamanca.

Depends a bit on the direction youre interested in. If indeed Alps, then the train would be a viable option to get to Munich and further on to Garmisch/Füssen/Berchtesgaden/Oberstdorf - your choice. Train is quite cheap with a "Bavaria-Ticket", unlimited travel on local trains one day for 69 Euro/5 riders, which would bring you to Munich within two hours and to the the alps in four/five hours (exact tariff depends on, how many kids there are and their age). Train station in Vilshofen is about 1km away from the pier, which is walkable depending on luggage, weather ... Taxis should be available too, ask the reception onboard to call a "Grossraumtaxi" (this is a van taking 5+ ppl plus luggage).

Transfer to the airport may be an alternative, as there are travel options from there, both train or car rentals (there is no car rental in Vilshofen). Transfers can be quite pricey though.

Ever thought about a DIY pre/post cruise from Basel. Hire a car for one day.

19 minutes ago, Nippy Sweetie said:

What is an IPO?

Look here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Initial_public_offering

Yesterday, Feb 13th there was the anniversary of the bombing of Dresden, which took place 79 years ago. Like this year, then it also was the high time of carnival, the bombing started at 10 in the evening on "Rosenmontag" (? Shrove monday). And indeed there are reports of people coming back in carnival costumes from their sessions, running into the fire storm. Other reports described people living in the affluent parts of town up the hills on the other bank of the Elbe viewing from their terraces the city ablaze. As the German writer Gerhart Hauptmann put it: "Those who unlearnt to cry, will learn it again at the doom of Dresden."

On the other hand, this air raid also saved lives. We can read that in the diaries of Victor Klemperer, linguistics professor of jewish descent living in Dresden. The last jews living in Dresden in 1945 had received their deportation order in effect Feb 16th. The air raid had also destroyed the Gestapo headquarters, and the chaos enabled those, who survived the bombing (jews werent allowed into shelters or bunkers) to remove their yellow star and go underground, like Klemperer and his wife themselves.   The diaries of Klemperer "I Shall Bear Witness" and "to the Bitter End" covering the years 1933 to 1945 ("Ich werde Zeugnis ablegen bis zum Letzten" in German) are among the most impressive readings about that period.

22 hours ago, notamermaid said:

But that is Berlin on the Spree river, what about the Elbe folk? @AnhaltER1960 are you eating Berliner and shouting "dreifach donnernd"?

 

notamermaid

 

Standing on solid protestant ground here we dont do these papal extravaganza. And eating Berliners... tztztz, we are not cannibals, its "Pfannkuchen" (pancake)-territory.

To be serious, there are some parades now, but it does not have much tradition. It may sound "Dessau Helau", but after a few beers you rather hear "viva colonia". But, having lived in Berlin in the 1980ies, I do not remember much of carnival activities there. This apparently has chaged since.

On 1/27/2024 at 1:25 PM, Senator1416 said:

Viking’s included AM tour says :

 

Witness the baroque beauty of Dresden by motor coach and by foot after 50 years of restoration.

Begin with a panoramic drive to the Neustadt district on the bank of the Elbe to admire beautiful 19th-century residences and cultural institutions. Then, visit the Grünes Gewölbe, the Green Vault museum that houses what many claim is the largest collection of treasures in the world, including priceless jewels and emeralds. Afterward, take a stroll among splendid architectural wonders. Marvel at the magnificent Semper Opera House, with its several graceful stories, and see the spectacular Zwinger Palace, a rococo-style complex that was once an exhibition court for royalty. Today, it houses several museums.

 

Visiting the Green Vault is one of the highlights Dresden has to offer. Otherwise it reads like a bus/walking tour and outside visits.

Dresden, as you know, was heavily bombed during WWII. Destructions maily hit the Old Town, the historical center on the left bank of the Elbe. Some had been rebuilt, Zwinger, palace, Opera House, Church of Our Lady (Frauenkirche)... Other parts around Altmarkt/ Prager St had been rebuilt in soviet style and now form the commercial center. The right bank of the Elbe (Neustadt) was much less damaged, you will se that during the bus ride. So there is a part with plenty of history, a bit sterile and touristy, but lots of sights. Another part also sterile as far as architecture is concerned, but commercially busy and then the Neustadt, authentic, down to earth and lively. Small shops, art galleries, boutiques, cafes.

It did not read, where the tour ends. When ending at Zwinger, the Gallery of Old Masters is one of the museums there and for sure a recommendation -they do have a cafeteria. When ending at the ship for lunch, which is moored close to the historical part, it will be a walk along Dresden's balcony, the Brühlsche Terassen towards Opera House/Zwinger for the Old Masters. Altmarkt gallery, a large shopping mall, is also within walking distance. Alternatively, cross the Albert bridge into Neustadt with the most interesting parts north of Bautzender Strasse, you saw already from the bus. A special highlight there is "Pfunds Molkerei", with c19 tiles, a nicely decorated shop, considered the finest dairy shop wordwide.

More options include the funiculars from Körnerplatz near the old bridge "Blaues Wunder" (blue miracle, you saw already from the ship and probably also on the bus tour. There are two funiculars, both have some viewpoints and cafes at the top stations with fine views overlooking the city and river.

And tramway line 4 to Radebeul gets you to the castles of the other bus tour. 12 Euro day pass....

16 hours ago, Senator1416 said:

Wife and I are taking a Viking cruise of the Elbe mid March of this year and was checking if anyone had any thoughts on the following.

We have one day scheduled in Dresden. Viking offers an included AM tour of Dresden and offers an optional tour( full day) of Dresden and the Elbe valley. Since we are only in Dresden for one day, would it be best to stick with the included AM tour and then further explore the city on our own in the afternoon or take the optional tour with much of the day spent exploring the valley outside of Dresden.

Thank you for any thoughts anyone might have.

( P.S. Optional tour says it includes, visit to “Saxon baroque castle”, Radebeul (observatory), Wackerbarth Castle.

While the Elbe valley around Dresden is attractive and does have indeed fine spots and castles ("saxon baroque castle" in this context sounds like Moritzburg to me .... though there are several of them), in mid-March there wont be much vegetation. So the parks and landscape can be rather bleak, even on a sunny day.

Unless you are an absolute castle-addict, I would clearly recommend staying in Dresden proper. Plenty to see there, many bad-weather alternatives like museums or shopping -hope its not a sunday/shops closed or monday/museums closed. Even a baroque palace with gardens (Pillnitz, you will see it from the ship starboard side shortly before you reach Dresden) is an easy DIY using public transport.

Enjoy your trip. I cannot recall that there was an issue with water levels end of March.

Just to give an impression of the Christmas flood of the Elbe. The photo, taken on Dec 31st, shows Viking's Wittenberg docking place. One week before, Dec 25th, the last passengers disembarked the Viking Astrild there, before she moved (empty) downriver.  Just about in time, before they needed the xxl-wellies.

The Viking Beyla still seems to be stuck in Bohemia.

1 hour ago, notamermaid said:

Happy New Year to you!

 

You said in a different year that the length of the ship makes a difference on the Elbe, too, meaning manoeuvring the bends. I suppose between Croisi's and Viking's ships there is not much in it. Meyer Werft gives the Astrild and the Beyla with 110m length and 11.45m width. CroisiEurope says the Elbe Princesse II is 102m long and 11 metres wide.

 

The MS Swiss Ruby certainly has a size advantage over both, she is only 85m long and 10m wide. Wonder what her draft is. She sails into Prague as Rebel54 has confirmed.

https://www.viva-*****/en/ships/ms-swiss-ruby

 

notamermaid

 

True, length does matter. But, as you noticed, there is not much of a difference between the Viking ships and the Croisi ships. The difference is the itinerary. Croisi ships have to pass the "Domfelsen Magdeburg" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domfelsen  - a major obstacle in low water conditions.

Wikipedia give the draft of the Swiss Ruby at 1, 20 mtrs, (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scylla_(Reederei) ). This would lose her some of the advantage of being shorter. There are several tour operators, which sail all the way into Prague, but usually only once or twice a year. The only ones, which have a wider choice of dates, are Viking and CroisiEurope.

Oh yes, and a happy new year, too.