arabrab

It is a dam mess.

I hope Rotterdam is required to quarantine all aboard for 14 days from today. Bringing passengers from an infected ship to an uninfected ship exposes a whole lot of folks on board the Rotterdam. The chances that none of the transferred passengers develop coronavirus in the next 14 days seems very, very small. 

13 minutes ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

 

 

Yes, staggering delivery times would help with hallway congestion. It would be nice if they had enough masks and gloves to use them for all deliveries but I doubt they have nearly enough, especially masks. 

They've certainly got a sewing machine on board; probably several. They've got lots of sheets. There are many patterns out there for masks -- our local hospital is asking folks here to sew them according to a specific pattern. They'll be washed and re-used. Some of the local sewing folks say that they can make 8/hour. With some people cutting and some sewing, I'd guess they can have 100 or more in a day. In two or three days, 300+.  "Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good" needs to be the mantra.

The cruise lines would really benefit from giving people a LONG time to use up the FCC -- maybe 3 years. Otherwise, they're going to find that they're not taking in nearly as much new revenue because those with FCC will be pushing to use it.

41 minutes ago, npcl said:

Somewhat limited in the things that they can do on a cruise ship. So they can take some precautions, but considering the space, the work to be done. the effectiveness of actions taken will be limited.

 

What would you expect them to do?

 

In the case of a "flu" outbreak on the Zaandam, I'd expect them to take precautions such as limiting the number of staff present in any passageway at the same time, having staff wear masks and gloves while delivering food and picking up trays/soiled linens, and having the kitchen staff cover the trays with plastic wrap before they're set out for delivery. 

I wonder whether the hotel staff on Zaandam are taking proper precautions given the report of "flu" on the Zaandam? It would be criminal if they had failed to learn from the experiences of other ships.  

Why the need to go through the Panama Canal? Isn't San Diego or Long Beach a plausible alternative?

Why could they not simply sail to England and disembark the passengers there? We're not talking halfway around the world.

1 hour ago, KroozNut said:

 

What? Who cares if they have worked in the cruise industry for years, which is irrelevant to the discussion here.

We plan to have a great cruise, and to those of you who are clutching their pearls about the doomsday scenario, have fun hunkering down in your home waiting for everything to pass.

I look forward to reading about your cruise.

Bailout time.

33 minutes ago, DAllenTCY said:

Are they restricting trolley riders?  NO.

Are they worried about Amtrak?  NO.

Maybe thinking about jails?  NO.

Worried about airplanes?  NO.

Just cruise ships.

 

David

That's right -- because even one positive case on a cruise ship gives them 2000+ people to quarantine. Miramar is already getting full. Texas doesn't want anyone back who isn't from Texas. 

And they are working on plans for jails, actually. https://www.kusi.com/sd-county-jails-prepare-for-possible-coronavirus-outbreak/. They've also now suspended visits to jails.

Amtrak is running very light passenger loads. Airplanes are also very short on passengers right now. Can't speak to the trolley, but I'd say that there is a lot of effort to provide social distancing right now. 

It isn't all about the cruise ships/cruisers.

5 hours ago, Wehwalt said:

I am sure you would’ve done it much better, given your eagle-eyed hindsight and obvious political neutrality. 

What does political neutrality have to do with accepting that both the CDC and the Secretary of Health have said that mistakes were made in the test development/rollout? 

And, just as I don't know you, you don't know me. The decisions people (companies, governments, the CDC,...) make to build stuff* on their own rather than buying existing tech often come back to bite them. Sometimes it is a big win...but often not. In this case, it was a serious mistake that put us weeks behind in testing. That is not politics -- it is the truth. There were testing systems that were already developed and proven. We wanted to build our own. It didn't work and is still not working well. Symptomatic people are still not being tested, while tests are magically being made available to politicians.

* As many companies/orgs that have tried to build their own payroll systems have found out. I think the LA school system took about a year to get pay straightened out after their fiasco.

I don't know where he's getting the fatality rate of 6 from on DP.  Since the vessel was evacuated, at least 1 more (maybe two) patient died in the US after being transferred, 1 died in Australia, and 1 died in Japan. None of those deaths have been reflected in the DP numbers on Worldometer.  Others are still critically ill and their outcomes are yet to be determined.

1 minute ago, ams cruiser said:

Thank you for posting this!  Do we know what is considered “elderly” in this context?  The reason I ask is that I remember reading something on these boards about information  from Wuhan indicating increased risk after age 40. 😳.
 

And the point has been made here many times over, that even if you are not in a high risk group, you need to consider whether or not you can afford a possible two week quarantine.

 

The other question I have is where are all of these test kits coming from?  I understand this is a priority, but I live in the East Bay, down the highway from where the Grand will be docking, in Alameda County.  My friend’s elderly mom was on the Grand sailing to Mexico before this Hawai’i cruise.  She has been sick with cold and flu-like symptoms since her return, which are now getting better.  When she heard the news about the Placerville passenger on her sailing having passed away, she contacted her doctor, and was told she didn’t meet the criteria for being tested, but she could call county health.  There she was informed there is a shortage of tests.  She still has not been tested, and of great concern to her are the people who have been exposed to her since her return. To clarify, because she wasn’t feeling well, she hasn’t been out and about, but she has still been around family members whose jobs entail working with the public in schools, grocery stores, etc.

 

 

 

 

Elderly has been defined (in the case of COVID-19) as 60+.  The rate of serious complications/death takes a big jump at 60-69 and an even bigger jump at 70+.

22 minutes ago, Turtles06 said:

 

I very much appreciate your posting the link to the press release.

 

I wonder why the crew will be quarantined on board -- we've already seen that a ship is not a good quarantine facility.   Also, since they made a big point of saying the ship will not be docked during the crew quarantine, who will be preparing meals for the crew, delivering them, etc.?   And will there be sufficient, trained medical staff on board to take care of the crew?

.

I hate to even think this, but I have to wonder whether the on-board (and at sea) crew quarantine was a medical decision made in the best interest of the crew, or driven by other factors.

Almost certainly "other factors".  Political ones. 

Princess failed to take prompt action when DP situation arose: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/08/world/asia/coronavirus-cruise-ship.html?action=click&module=Top Stories&pgtype=Homepage

But in a series of interviews, company officials offered contradictory and changing accounts about their response. In the end, nearly 48 hours elapsed between the alert on Feb. 1 and the captain’s announcement to the ship on Feb. 3 that a passenger had been infected, giving the virus time to spread.

Princess officials could not point to the social media post, or the platform, that they say tipped them off. They said it took Dr. Tarling until the night of Feb. 2 to confirm that a former passenger had tested positive.

Company emails show that he knew by that morning. In an email to a Hong Kong doctor, he listed the patient’s name, his hospital wing, his traveling companions and the date of the diagnosis.

The subject line of his email began: “Confirmed Coronavirus Case.”

4 minutes ago, kathy49 said:

that looks very good to me....what is wrong with people posting stuff like that if untrue or were they just forgotten...why say the ship is "out of food" obviously not!

To the person stuck in a cabin who didn't get dinner and who was told no food was available..."out of food" is a reasonable conclusion.

Easy enough for those of us comfortably at home with stocked pantries, but tough on the folks living this experience.

3 minutes ago, Outerdog said:

Cruise ships stock food for the next 2 to 3 cruises in most cases.

 

There is no merit to stories claiming the ship is out of food / rationing food. Ridiculous.

 

With a ship that big it is entirely reasonable to believe that some cabins got skipped/shorted while others got full meals. They had trouble with that in the beginning on DP as well.

6 minutes ago, NorthwestCruiser said:

Um, no.  That isn't how marine law works.    Pandemics used to be common; a lot of marine procedure exists because of quarantines  to prevent the spread of disease from one country to another because ships were *the* vector in the middle ages.   That is why you fly the yellow "Q" flag and have all of the in port procedures that used to seem so ancient and outdated to me.  According to wiki it comes from the Italian quaranta giorni, meaning "forty days" which is how long passengers had to wait offshore (disease free) before being allowed to land.   Presumably running out of food didn't change that.

I learned something new.  So, do ships have a Q flag even today? Will they raise it when they come into harbor?

OK, I do NOT understand the folks in panic because they're going to run out of their medications today. Why would anyone go on a trip without a few extra days of important medications? That is foolish in the extreme even without COVID19 issues. Lots of things can delay a return to port. 

32 minutes ago, ChiCruiser758 said:

 

I'm using a different tracker, marinetraffic.com. It's now much clearer that the ship is headed to the entrance to the SF Bay. But, I'm not sure it's clear yet that it will dock in San Francisco itself. As of the time of posting this, the ship has not updated its information on its intended destination since 3/5. So It could be San Francisco, but it also could be elsewhere in the SF Bay Area. We should know for sure overnight when the ship finally docks.

 

Later note: Just in the past few minutes, the ship has increased its speed to 16.8 kn. Not sure what this means, except that we may get our answer on the ship's final docking destination sooner. 

Might they need to re-supply food/other supplies?  I imagine that they had supplies arranged for San Fransisco before the infection was noted. How many days of extra supplies do they carry? 

5 minutes ago, glam mistress said:

Pence just said the crew will quarantine on the ship... 

That does not sound wise. Crew quarters are very crowded...perfect for more transmission.

US Considering discouraging some travelers from cruising.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-cruiseships-exclus/exclusive-u-s-considering-discouraging-some-travelers-from-cruises-sources-idUSKBN20T29M

(Guess: elderly & those with compromised immune systems, asthma or other lung issues, and cardiac issues. But that is just my guess.)

18 minutes ago, junglejane said:

Apparently they are awaiting test results on 45 people.  Something constrained them from testing more.  Logically, the 45 people they selected for testing would be those who were most likely to test positive, including the 10+ passengers and 10+ crew reporting symptoms (especially the B2B passengers among them).   The question is--what are they going to do if they get a bunch of positives?   If they get many positives, it means there are lots of infected people on the ship.  

My guess (only a guess) is that the actual sampling (2/person) takes quite a bit more time compared to taking blood for a blood test. It is quite invasive. Passengers on DP described it as feeling like they were taking a sample from the back of the brain. Additionally, if the tester has to don and doff all the protective gear (coverall, booties, mask, eye protection) between taking samples from the next person, that adds quite a bit of time. (From an infection control standpoint, I don't believe they could just keep wearing the same stuff -- it would protect the tester but could transmit the virus to the next person being tested). Good habits with a disease like this might require that an observer monitor the donning and doffing process to identify any mis-steps in precautions.  Finally, I'm guessing that the samples needed to be taken off during daylight hours, but that is just a guess.

6 minutes ago, richsea said:

I find it pretty amazing that so many people seem to know more about how to handle this unforeseen problem; & without even knowing all the facts! Armchair, know-it-all Monday morning quarterbacks.😳😳😳

Not to be ridiculous, but we won't know "all the facts" until this is all over. Probably not even then. Meanwhile, many of those who proclaimed that this was no big deal way back when now see it differently, cruise lines have had a hard time moving away from traditional habits (self-serve buffets are still operating on many dozens of cruise ships as we speak) and they are also waiting until ordered to close down profitable areas like casinos. As Dylan said, "You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows."

2 minutes ago, Farts said:

Does anyone know how long the quarentine is planned for at this point? I know it can change, and I don't want to read 18 pgs. ty

I don't believe they have announced anything. It is possible that there are no positive cases in the group just tested. In that case, perhaps there would be no need at all for any quarantine.