Navis

42 minutes ago, winterbliss said:

Kind of a little essay here. I do appreciate all of your input. I can see that you are putting lots of thought into your decision making.

 

Time will tell, as they say. Younger folks like yourself, and children, are the ones that I am most concerned about in terms of...well, pretty much everything. Take care and hope you're making sure your vitamin D levels are what they should be!

I am definitely known to be a little long winded!  And thank you for your thoughts and well wishes and, of course, the same to you. Yes, in Dr’s orders I’m doing my best to keep my vit D levels up ... before COVID I did not realize how little I was actually consuming!

9 minutes ago, winterbliss said:

I'm not ignorant when it comes to pharmaceuticals. Worked as RN for 32 years. Have seen alot....good and bad. 

 

I believe in questioning the legalities and ethics of requiring one to take a drug that has EUA only before said person can partake in a certain activity.

 

All of those who have been through having covid could very well be naturally protected. Why the heck should they be required to take a vaccine? There are more questions than answers.

 

And furthermore, with all due respect to anyone affected by covid in any way, shape or form, to focus on one crisis while so much is falling by the wayside and collateral damage continues is ridiculous. Clearly, we all believe what we believe at this point. Whether we can get on a cruise ship will probably become rather unimportant in the long run.

As many have said, no one if forcing anyone to do anything ... the choice is up to each of us. But none of us are free from the consequences of the decisions we make.

Some of what you say however is already being taken into consideration. About recovered COVID patients for example, in the countries that are requiring vaccines, they exempt anyone who has fully recovered within the last 90 days of the date of their departure.  Why is that, you might ask? Because of the actual detail in these reports and studies rather than just the headlines (none of which are as key catching as “6 month immunity with vaccination.”  
 

Actually read the whole studies across the world and see that they actually say ... the immune response generated by the vaccine is far to superior and has a lower decay rate than natural immunity. Tests run on blood samples of people with natural immunity and vaccine immunity (with roughly the same date of infection/injection) show that natural immunity wanes much faster and is much more narrow than the mRNA vaccines.

Here’s the other kicker ... studies have shown that natural immunity is also effected significantly with the introduction of variant strains! Look at the studies on the impact the vaccines on the UK and South African variant (haven’t seen any on the Brazilian variant yet). With respect to vaccines, they are for sure less effective (roughly 80% effective rather than 94%), but they still work at preventing all death and serious disease and at 80% are enough to maintain herd immunity (if and when reached).  Natural immunity has proven not to work that way ... they estimate at best 50% against variants and unknown impact on deaths and hospitalizations (they don’t have the data on prior infections yet).  So, unless you get reinfected with the same variant you are again rolling the dice.
 

As I mentioned in another thread I think, I went back and forth on whether I should get vaccinated ... I’m in my 40s and thankfully in good health so i’m it even eligible yet, but I have decided I will for many reasons, all of which my primary care physician brought to my attention:

1) mRNA vaccines are not really new ... they have been in development for over a decade now. They only difference here is the message. (The analogy he gave me was to think of it as the industry has been working on a proven safe envelope for years .. they are only modifying the paper inside the envelope for COVID). He emphasized to me that these are not in any way, shape or form, gene editing

2) mRNA is a fundamental aspect of human existence as our cells receive literally billions of them a day

3) The risk of actual infection from an mRNA vaccine is non existent while the risk for other forms of virus based vaccines is not high but it is not zero either

4) mRNA vaccines promote broad-based immunity that has shown to so far provide more than adequate protection against current variants and that such protection is far superior to strain specific natural immunity.

5) it is true that any possible long term side effects of mRNA vaccines remain unknown, but he cautioned me to weigh that against the emerging long term side effects for a meaningful portion of of those who have recovered. He has seen some very debilitating side effects that have lasted over 9 months now.

Also, he sent a link to a recent article that hasn’t received much attention that was really very exciting. It talks about how mRNA has been research for years as a possible cure for HIV (as we know, the issue with HIV has always been that it mutates at and astronomical rate and can’t be pinned down through traditional vaccine approaches). Anyway, these researchers began meeting with Moderna folks while they were working on their COVID vaccine. They worked together to modify the message and ran some tests and studies and it looks like this mRNA vaccine is very promising for HIV as well! My doc added at the end: “the way to think of traditional vaccines vs mRNA vaccines is when the body becomes infected the immune system ‘takes a picture’ and remembers that virus for future defense. Change the picture and you alter the impact the immune system has in the key period while the virus duplicates in your body. mRNA is more like ‘stem cell’ immunity. Rather than taking a picture or the virus, it recognizes all the colors in the picture and crates immunity against the colors.”

This is all a long-winded way of saying we each get to make our own choice,  it we should make it with all the facts available. Whatever everyone decides I hope we all remain safe and healthy and I look forward to reading all your trip reports from future cruises! Be they on NCL or another line.

6 minutes ago, GamblingMommy said:

Oh I know things have changed. We cruise every year. I don’t think there are answers yet, but here are a few in case anyone knows:

1- what time can boarding begin since it’s the first cruise and sail away is 8 pm?

2- what time will everyone need to disembark?

3- when will tours be published? Do we really have to only book through NCL?

4- what is contactless dining? Buffets having servers for the food or is it something more?

5 will there be shows in the theatre?

6 will dinner be served on the first night since sail away is 8?

 

im sure there are more, but here’s what I’m wondering now.

We’re not on any of these NCL summer cruises, but we have been getting regular updates (like almost every other week) from another cruise line that is starting up this summer as well (a smaller line we are on next spring). The updates have been very detailed and always include a video where you can infer a lot of other information. Of course NCL can vary but i think the lines will be generally close to each other on these early cruises. If it is helpful to you at all, this other line has provided details on some of your questions ... I hope this helps:

1) They claim that boarding will be done in groups and effort will be made to accommodate your boarding group with your travel arrangements (they claim this is more about doing all the enhanced arrival screening than anything else). No discussion of how many groups, how many in each group or the time interval between groups yet.

2) Nothing on this one yet.

3) For our line that stars this summer the tours are already out. This part is key ... they make it very clear (think bold, underlined and italics) that the agreement reached with the ports requires that only cruise-sponsored and supervised excursions will be permitted ... following all social distance and masking protocols (including within any transportation). They go on to say that only those passengers with a booked excursion will be permitted off the ship.

4) Not addressed in any written materials we’ve received, but in all the videos we’ve got the former buffet area has been converted to makeshift traditional dining with the curious voice over of “and we’ve found space on our vessels to ensure dining can continue while observing safe distancing protocols.” I’ve taken that as a read between the lines that there will not be traditional buffets for a while. 
 

5) Nothing on this so far and not even addressed in the videos.

I hope this helps a little bit to give you a sense directionally of where things are going and again NCL could go another direction, but they seem to be on the more conservative side of the reopening. Regarding the excursions, we’re actually kind of bummed about that one, but I understand. I actually called the cruise line about that and asked them if they thought those rules would still be in place next winter/spring because that’s a big dissatisfier for us. We’re going to be 14 days in the Caribbean and the idea that we can only get off the ship everyday if we have an excursion seems crazy ... and expensive .. each of this lines excursions average $150/pp.

Hope you have a wonderful cruise!

1 minute ago, harkinmr said:

The cruise lines that are starting with vaccination requirements are still also requiring testing as part of their protocols.

Sorry for the confusion. I just meant as the vaccine data rolls in and the true efficacy of vaccination becomes clearer then countries will be in a better position to decide what the protocols will be for cruise visitors (it really won’t be the cruise lines that make this decision ... it will be each port and embarkation/disembarkation location). At that point, maybe the non vaccinated will have an option to cruise with just testing. But for these initial test cruises ... vaccination and testing makes total sense as it puts the cruise lines in the best position to prove to these countries that cruising can be done safely. 
 

Like many on here, I am also hopeful that the world we will see in the fall is very different than the one we see now and that the protocols that then go into place will look different. 

3 minutes ago, winterbliss said:

You are certainly not alone in your choice not to take a covid vaccine. Although I can certainly understand the cruise lines doing whatever they're told to get things going again, I cannot understand how it can be legally allowed for anyone to mandate a medical treatment which has been put through under emergency use authorization...the estimated completion dates for collection of data for the trials of these drugs are way down the road. The ethics of same is an important topic as well.....or one would hope that it should be.

No one is mandating anything. Each adult over the age 16 is free to make their own choice, but no adult is free from the consequences of the choice they make. And this is nothing new ... proof of vaccination for travel have existed for a very long time. Ask anyone traveling from a country with elevated risk of yellow fever or polio ... many countries require visitors from those countries (by land, sea or air) to provide proof of vaccination before entry. Most of us have never had to deal with this because the successful use of vaccines in our countries in the past have rendered us low risk countries. 
 

The EUA certainly adds a wrinkle and I respect everyone’s right to weigh the decision for themselves. I am not eligible yet, but I’ve weighed all the pros and cons, read all the unbiased research I could get my hands on and have decided when eligible I will get the vaccine. But the whole time I realized that if I did not get the vaccine I would likely be limited in my travel options for probably quite a while and I accepted that.

I think we can all agree that more data/details that will come is always a welcome thing. What I think is key right now to how travel protocols will evolve will really depend on the efficiency of the vaccinations in preventing asymptomatic spread. The other month we heard very positive results out of the Israel study. Should those results be duplicated and validated I think you’ll see most countries  move to vaccination requirements (like Greece and Croatia already have). Even in the Caribbean many of the islands have said publicly they are exploring similar requirements ... for a few years on a temporary basis. 
 

On the other hand, if the vaccines are not really that effective to prevent asymptomatic spread then some sort of “vaccination or proof of negative test” protocol would make more sense.

2 minutes ago, cruisin07family said:

  

Nicely stated.  I don't get all the animosity toward those who will not get the vaccine.  If you get the vaccine, YOU are protected and I am not.  Why care about what happens to me?  Clearly, with all the name-calling, many of you don't actually care.  On another board, someone actually said they would laugh at my funeral.  Wow.

I would hope it’s not with animosity that most of us point out the fact “you do you and let me do me” doesn’t really work in a cruise setting. We’re all in it together and we’re only all as protected as the least of us are.
 

Most of us completely understand and respect everyone has the right to choose for themselves whether they get a vaccine or not, but if cruise lines allow too many unvaccinated people to board and an outbreak arises ... some

of us are not willing to risk being quarantined indefinitely in some foreign port for the situation to play out. Now, if cruise lines and governments said “don’t worry ... even if a voyage has an outbreak all vaccinated will be able to disembark at their convenience and will be assisted with getting home” then great no issues at all.

But I do not expect that accommodation to be made. At the end of the day, an overwhelming majority of the population will be vaccinated so, to me, at least now ... while they try to establish they can do this safely (and hopefully present that data to the CDC) I see wisdom in proceeding the way NCL is.

4 hours ago, SLSD said:

We decided to delay international travel until 2022.  We will be watching these early cruises with great interest.  

Same here. We’re doing a few vacation rentals this year and are scheduled to attempt a Seabourn cruise in March 2022. Rather coincidentally ... the exact same cruise that was cancelled in March of last year 😀

S

18 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

That's exactly right. For all of those saying vaccinations will be "required," I need only remind them that cruising is a worldwide industry, and the idea of creating 2nd class citizens who aren't vaccinated is a very hotly debated topic in Europe right now. For one thing, it goes to the very heart of freedom of movement, so to the extent that tourism includes people moving about from one country to another, there is the very real possibility that EU regulators will forbid any private company from requiring vaccinations in order to travel. People talk over and over about the CDC and its jurisdiction in the USA. Well, other countries have their own governments with their own jurisdictions, so they absolutely can tell NCL, etc. that vaccination requirements violate their laws and are unenforceable. Personally, I have no trouble with vaccinations and have had my 1st shot already, and I support the cruise industry's cautious approach. But it doesn't mean it's a done deal; far from it.

i completely agree with you ... each country ... or Union (in the case of the EU) has the sovereign right to set their own standards for their citizens, but no country can subject the rest of the world to such standards. If a country were to prohibit vaccine passports and a cruise line wanted to offer a cruise with an itinerary that included a port that requires proof of vaccination the cruise line is between a rock and hard place.  An interesting scenario would be what could the cruise line do when the ship enters international waters? 

What might end up happening is the cruise lines reassign ships/ports or realign ships to offer itineraries that comply with all applicable laws — both embarkation/disembarkation ports and all visited ports.

I will add that this is exactly the case today. It is just that for most of us, we are exempted from vaccination requirements because we do not travel from/through countries with high incidence of certain disease so we never have to deal with it. Two years ago we were on a 14 day Asian/Middle East itinerary. When we submitted our travel details the cruise line reached out to me to let me know that because I would be arriving from a country with a high incidence of yellow fever (I was traveling for work in Brazil) I would need to submit proof of vaccination before I would be permitted to Board because even though the CDC only “recommends” yellow fever vaccination for US citizens, several countries on our itinerary actually required it. So, I had to get vaccinated and submit the vaccination card prior to boarding. My partner was traveling from the US and because the US is not a high risk country for yellow fever no vaccination was required.

I completely expect when this thing settles out and traveling resumes we will see COVID treated like polio or yellow fever .. passengers from or transiting though counties oh high COVID risk will be required to show proof of vaccination. 

7 hours ago, giustot said:

Sorry to have offended you. But what did I say that was untrue? The only actual comment I made was that I support proof of vaccinations. My point was that while some feel cruise lines sailing out of the US will certainly be allowed to require vaccinations, and a state order in Florida certainly would not apply to the cruise lines, those assumptions are not necessarily true.

 

The New York Times published a story today about the ethical and legal issues surrounding "vaccine passports." No one yet knows how this is going to play out.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/06/us/politics/vaccine-passports-coronavirus.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage

 

No offense taken. All I was pointing out was that you mplied that somehow the personal views of a sitting Governor of Florida on who may be a protected class is relevant to anything ... they are not. He doesn’t even get to interpret his own state constitution let alone the US Constitution.

You do not understand the legal implications of your statements. Were, somehow, non vaccinated people deemed a protected class (and, let’s be clear, there is a less than zero chance of that happening under this SCOUTS — if anything this Court is headed in the opposite direction with protected classes) then any court would be required to apply strict scrutiny to any law/regulation infringing on that group. Most laws fail under strict scrutiny because they must be narrowly tailored in furtherance of a compelling state interest. Rational basis would apply here and under that standard nearly all laws/reg have been upheld.

I just want to avoid unnecessary confusion for people on here, that’s all — not offended in the least. Unless FL is willing to use FL registered vessels, board only FL residents, and stay within FL waters then any law/regulation passed by the Federal government will trump anything FL tries under the Supremacy Clause. This is before even considering the implication of maritime law (which I know nothing about).

As I and many others have said a few times, at the end of the day, the US is not going to have sole control here and the focus of what FL and/or the CDC determines is too narrow. Once a port country determines for itself that it is going to require all cruise passengers to be vaccinated (like Greece and Croatia already have) that’s it ... end of discussion. I just don’t see how this becomes anything but a itinerary by itinerary issue and cruises will require all passengers to meet the highest bar for each itinerary.

I just want try to keep the focus of the positive and known facts right now ... cruising is going to resume and that’s a great thing!

Congrats to everyone booking and getting back to cruising! Sadly, I’ll need to

live vicariously through your trip reports as we’ve already booked local staycations this summer and can’t change our plans at this point.

Hope everyone has a wonderful time 😀

1 hour ago, wesport said:

30 minutes ago they announced sailings from Athens on the Ovation for vaccinated guests. 

I am wondering if this is a sign of cruise line mandated universal approach or is this itinerary dependent? I noted that vaccination requirement as well, but I also noticed that it mimics exactly the requirements Greece is applying to all visitors starting when they reopen their borders to all forms of foreign visitors.

If Seabourn were offering Caribbean cruises this summer in ports that only require negative PCR tests within 72 hours for entry would Seabourn be requiring vaccines for those cruises as well? I worry this is going to become an itinerary based standard that is going to be hard to navigate.

To be clear, I would prefer vaccine-only cruises not because I am worried about getting sick per se ... but because I think vaccines, together with reasonable on board practices, creates the lowest risk that people will contract COVID to a level that would require some sort of ship wide quarantine (a la Diamond Princess).
 

We’re not near retirement age yet and I have clients to take care of. I am fine taking the risk of getting ill while sailing (taking all mitigating actions I possibly can myself), but I am not comfortable risking indefinite quarantine because a critical mass of my sailing neighbors did not exercise the same diligence.

38 minutes ago, HuliHuli said:

What I also note on NCL's "Ready. Set. Break Free." page is they are pushing July cruises as follows"

• 7-Day Eastern Caribbean, Norwegian Gem
• 7-Day Greek Isles, Norwegian Jade (and other ships)
• 7-Day Western Caribbean, Norwegian Joy

All of which could easily be staged out of foreign ports if the CDC balks or opposes NCL's plans.  Indeed, Greece is on record publicly welcoming cruises this summer and NCL already has ports negotiated in the Mediterranean.  What's to stop NCL from working to secure fall-back ports in Bermuda, the Bahamas or Mexico (Joy or Gem) and thumb their nose at the CDC if they stonewall.  Thankfully, my next booked cruise is September in the Greek Isles.  I'm feeling pretty bold on that one now in the wake of FDR's letter.

 

Just noted NCL's update today on suspended sailings that "Norwegian Joy, Norwegian Jade and Norwegian Gem now boast new homeports in Greece and the Caribbean for three new and exciting itineraries sailing in July. Book them now!"  Awesome!

This is good news for a slow restart and was actually something I just got in my inbox for another cruise line announcing the sale of Greek Island cruises next week. 
 

I think this also is evidence of the big game of chicken we’ve been in since the vaccines came out ... who is going to be the one to require them? At first I think the cruise lines were hoping the CDC would mandate it and take the heat off the cruise lines for the mandate. When the CDC said they were not getting involved it then became well, who will make the decision? I think what we are starting to see is this will likely to be an itinerary by itinerary decision between the cruise lines and the destination ports.  
 

Read carefully about those Greek Island cruises and you’ll see that Greece is requiring all passengers be vaccinated in order to be granted entry. There is, however, a limited exception for people who recovered from COVID within 90 days of arrival (I know people on here have been asking about that). Those cruise rules appear to mimic the requirements for entry into the country in general (which makes sense). 
 

I suspect there will be many ports that will accept negative tests as enough for entry, but I imagine keeping track of all this and what ports require what just seems like a nightmare and on a 7 day cruise one would assume the highest bar will be applied.  This doesn’t even address the administrative nightmare of differing countries requiring different “as of” tests (just look a t the difference today between traveling to Aruba vs Barbados).

I guess this is all just a long winded way of saying ... I don’t see this being a one size fits all approach and we should expect to see different requirements for different itineraries. 
 

Are you admitted to the bar of any State or Commonwealth? If not, you might want to leave the legal commentary to those of us that have taken and passed a Bar Exam and are admitted to practice in one or more state/commonwealth and/or Federal jurisdictions. This is quite off the mark and is likely to lead to a lot of unnecessary confusion.

16 minutes ago, giustot said:

The state of Florida. The governor has signed an executive order forbidding the state from issuing vaccine passports and  prohibiting businesses from requiring proof of vaccinations. He says he doesn’t want to create a second class of citizens who are not vaccinated. 

Thank you Art!  And I hope all works out well for you too!

Apologies for starting yet another thread, but I did not want to update you all under the older, and admittedly pejorative, thread title.  I feel a positive update deserves a positive tag line! As I am sure many of you long-time Seabourn loyalists probably predicted all along, last night we received a call from a supervisor at Seabourn and they apologized for the lack of communication and response and explained that they are simply in triage mode at this point.

She went on to offer us a full future cruise credit for our 3/14 Odyssey sailing.  The terms are similar (although not identical) to what has been posted elsewhere on here.  We cannot use the credit as a deposit, but are not restricted from combining it with other offers.  We must apply the credit within one year and must travel by 12/31/21.  All in all we are pleased with the outcome and appreciate the accommodation.  It looks like we'll end up using this credit on a bucket list item . . . Alaska cruise next summer!

Hope all the best and happy outcomes whatever your decision may be!  

31 minutes ago, westmount said:

If you booked 20 months ago, you are not part of what the discussion was about. My writing skills are not as polished as they should be , but the worry was that with passengers not booing or canceling, Seabourn would be selling space to the large discounters who sell last minute rooms at large discounts. Good for people who live in port cities , but not necessarily great for the “brand”

  I don’t want to generalize, but the word is those passengers are the most demanding, sometimes abusive, consumption driven passengers on board , with bottles being removed as well as anything that can be packed on the way out. 
  This comes from staff, so don’t shoot the messenger, and my point was discounting isn’t really isn't in the best interest of the brand, but business does what it has to sometimes, just mini add on voyages don’t mix well with scheduled journeys. Let’s just say for many reasons I’ll be happy to be departing in Perth. 
 If you think in terms of the old days when everyone had points to fly on planes that were full , and even if you booked 364 days in advance there was exactly one free seat available, we all can be facing future cruise credits on cruises we don’t want to go on in rooms categories we don’t like. 
  Take two ships out of circulation and voila, rule change. At the end of the day, there are three companies controlling most of the cruise ships in the world, they will remember the port cities that refused safe boats, they have shipyards and countries that need their orders and they have us that like wha they have to offer, although their cancelation policies have always been one sided. 
  If you are elderly ( define that term yourself) and have respiratory issues, stay home and safe for six months.
 If you wish to move about, do so knowing someone you know is going to get the virus which means you might as well, and be prepared for the result, whatever that implies. 
  I’m not sure of the exact numbers, but my Canada has about 100 cases of the virus, half from the crown princess affair, so you can see the frustration from politicians. 
   I did see that trump ‘discussed’ help for the airline and cruise industry, together with the fracking industry and everyone who pays payroll taxes in America. 
  Not sure the cruise industry was at the top of the list, but it was on the list, good start. 
btw, checked out the other cruise lines boards, seems the issues are the same, go figure. 
  Today is day 10 at sea, five more to go, Broome, you’re looking might sweet about now.  

My apologies.  I misunderstood your original post.  I admit I am a little off my game as I work though all this with Seabourn, but I remain hopeful that all will work out!

18 minutes ago, westmount said:

Since we happen to have some time on our hands, I will venture off to the other cruise lines virus boards to see if everyone is in love with their cruise lines compensation cancelation policy. 
 I gather Seabourn knows each and every one of its passengers and what makes them/us tick, and as I said before, they will figure out the right thing to do as well as Crystal, Regent and Silverseas. 
Since so much has happened over the past month, with changes in schedules , ports and policies, I gather Seabourn has just been trying to keep the ships moving and passengers headed to the right port . 
 The good news out there seems to be that while many new cases are discovered, the death rate seems to be moderating as victims seem to have a common issue. 
there was interesting talk on the ship yesterday about “regular” Seabourn passengers and last minute fill ins, and I think that’s the greater danger here than to refund in full or give credit. 
 We could have gotten off the ship in the Seychelles and received credit for the unused days to be used within this year, something we thought not practical. Many actually booked Italian cruises on board for this summer before getting off early, wonder how those plans are looking today. 
It’s true the rules are changing every day, but decisions can only be made with the rules we have in front of us, but I’m sure that every single regular Seabourn client will be treated fairly, just show the respect back to them that you wish to receive yourself. 
it’s  a game of leverage right now,  and I guess the cruise lines don’t want passengers booking ten cruises with six companies with 48 hour cancelation notices only to be upset because someone else got a better deal a month from now. 
my crystal ball tells me that the cruise lines will park a few ships somewhere in dry dock for a few months and cut capacity down for the summer big time, 

debt at 3% they can handle, empty ships and full crews they cannot. 
the market will look a little different when Silverseas and Seabourn park five ships, then you’ll see people booking their rooms and cruises again . There’s nothing like being sold out to get people desperate to book. 
  In any case, we had a fantastic five course  room service dinner last night while watching six episodes of the Bing Bang Theory. On the big screen, life is still good aboard the Sojourn.  Today’s  speaker is discussing the sinking of the Titanic while we are in 15000 foot waters, timing is everything in life. 
good luck on those credit negotiations, we’re rooting the most for you guys, as our claim will be riding on your success. 


 I truly hope you are enjoying your cruise, but for those of us in reality . . . the situation is quite different.  I am particularly offended by the inherent implication from your statement I highlighted above.  Not all of us affluent Seabourn customers are retired or have the time to embark on a world cruise an not all of us are "parasites". Perhaps I am sensitive right now because of the issues we are going through right now with our Odyssey cruise  but the thought of losing my money for the cruise I booked 20 months ago is just hard to swallow. I am so hopeful that I will have the opportunity to experience this first rate Seabourn service you have all spoke of.

UPDATE:  "Pam" is not talking client calls anymore and "no one in the office has the ability to evaluate your request.  Good night." I am speechless.

Well, the poor customer service continued today . . . called this morning as I was told last night "Pam" would be available to discuss with me.  Sure enough "Pam" is in meetings but cares about our concerns . . . can she call you back directly at 6 pm EDT?  Sure, I say knowing full well, just like the 4 unreturned emails and the 6 unreturned phone calls the last 2 weeks, there was NO CHANCE she was actually going to return my call.  

Sure enough I wait until 6:30 and call them again .  . . wouldn't you know it . .  no one knows where "Pam" is!  Still on hold.  Amazing!

On a related note, sent an email to the general Regent address today asking them what they could do for us (given our status with NCL in general).  I received a response within 2 hours with various offers.  We really want to cruise with Seabourn but, my God, this is beyond crazy. 

Many thanks for the insight.  It is reassuring to know that others have the same take on it that we have.  Speaking with Seabourn reps they leave you with the impression that you're crazy or hypersensitive and unreasonable.  The same mypoic line over and over . . . "right now we are not experiencing any delays or issues in the Caribbean." First time I heard it a few weeks I said "fair enough."  Second time they said it a week later I said, "yeah, funny they said the same thing yesterday in Italy and they went to an epidemic overnight."  Now two weeks later and the entire country is shut down.

Tonight when I got that line for the third time, I said "of really, then what happened today on the Odyssey?"  Crickets on the other end.  And if I have to explain one more time that, yes, I feel very fortunate that I am young enough and healthy enough that if I contract it I will, most likely, be fine.  But that is not, and has never been, my issue.  The issue is that Seabourn cannot guarantee me safe passage from embarkation through disembarkation and for that they should at least be offering us March cruises the same reasonable accommodation they are granting cruisers 4 days after our cruise is scheduled to disembark.

I find their shortsightedness shocking, ill advised and, simply, bad business.  

So . . . here we are 5 days before we are scheduled to embark on the Odyssey for 2 weeks in the Caribbean. We booked this trip 20 months ago and, until about a month ago, had been looking forward to our first Seabourn experience having found, we believed, the right cruise line for our vacation dollars going forward.  When final payment date was upon us . . . the only thing we had to worry about was the seasonal flu and perhaps the fickle weather we have up here in Boston in March.  Fast forward to February and this corona virus starts to pop up.  Like many others on here . . . we waited to see how things played out confident that, no matter the outcome, Seabourn would do the right thing.  

Well, it turns out we were apparently very wrong.  It seems like for those of us with cruises this month, no accommodation will be made . . . cruise or lose your money.  Seabourn's "generous" book with confidence program draws arbitrary and incoherent lines in the sand and exposes those of us forced to cruise this month with a potential quarantine (at worst) and significant diminution in value having to deal with this hanging over our heads for 2 weeks (at best). Not only is the policy objectively unreasonable it is far inferior to what other lines are offering . . . Regent offering 100% FCC with 48 hours notice to ALL existing reservations for travel on or before 12/31/22 . . . or even Viking offering 100% FCC with 24 hours notice to ALL existing reservations. I simply do not understand why those of us who were LEAST able to evaluate and respond to this crisis are being put in the WORST position.

We've spent probably 10 hours on the phone with unhelpful associate after unhelpful associate reciting company scripts and refusing to forward our concerns to management (I do feel bad for them as Seabourn/Carnival's policy here is indefensible).  In fact, we've been told now FIVE times that a manager would call to discuss further . . . nothing at all from Seabourn. We have not a single returned call and we embark in 5 days . . . amazing.  Oh, and then there are the two emails that went without response. To clarify, all we are asking for here is the same relief granted to EVERYONE sailing 2 weeks after us an beyond . . . give us a FCC. The funny thing is . . . we've already decided what cruise we would take next year . .  and it would have resulted in more cruise dollars for Seabourn as we would have gone with a signature suite rather than the owner's suite we have now.   

I also do not feel like our request is unreasonable . . . quarantines are popping up everywhere . . . we are (understandably) about 2 weeks behind this virus at every turn . . . cruise ships are particularly vulnerable and have resulted in terrible quarantines  . . . the CDC says avoid cruise ships and now the State Dept says we're stupid to cruise and we're on our own if anything goes wrong. And I'm excluding the event on the Odyssey itself today!  I can appreciate that as a couple in our 40s and of good health we are not "at risk" but that is not even close to the point.  If we are forced to go . . . we will go and hope for the best, but no matter how great the crew are (and I am confident they are great based on everything I have read on here) it would be our first and last cruise with Seabourn.  I appreciate that they have the right to set their policies, but I have the right to choose where I spend my cruise dollars.   

I'm sorry for the rant, but I guess I'm also asking if anyone else scheduled to cruise this month is experiencing the same issues we are?  How are you dealing with Seabourn's stonewalling? Thank you!

We have begun packing for our 2 week cruise on the Odyssey next month and am now thinking it might be worth mailing our luggage ahead! I understand that Seabourn has partnered with Luggage Forward and most of what I have read about Luggage Forward on here seems positive.  I do, however, have some basic questions to which I cannot find answers.  For any of you that have used the service:

     1)  Do you need to attach those pre-printed cruise specific tags that came with the final cruise docs or will the Luggage Forward label and a general luggage tag suffice?

     2)  Do you need to separately notify Seabourn of your use of Luggage Forward if you reserve directly online with the company?

     3)  Any specific experience using this service to/from Barbados?  I would think each country/port might result in a different experience so anyone who has specific experience with the

           Port of Bridgetown is greatly appreciated.

Many thanks for any and all insights! 

I do not have a large experience pool from which to draw (I'm heading out on my first Seabourn cruise next month), but we also received an offer about a month ago.  We are currently in an Owner's Suite and we were offered, essentially, a 2 for 1 deal for an upgrade to a Signature Suite.  We thought about it, but the idea of spending another 3K on top of what we already spent just seemed like a little too much.

Apparently others did not feel that way as it looked like the next day the signature suites were showing sold out.

1 hour ago, SLSD said:

Your description is why we have not booked SB cruises in the Caribbean.  While not geriatric (yet), I not a party person.  

I must say, I find reports to date a little disappointing. We'll be on our first Seabourn cruise on the Odyssey in March and we were looking forward to a more refined/relaxed experience then we've experienced on a mainline cruise line.  Although we too are in our 40s, we've never been part of that "if it's included I want as much of it as possible as often as possible and who cares what my incessant monopolizing demand on people or resources means for others' enjoyment" crowd. It's why we stopped cruising a few years ago altogether.

We were looking forward to a nice relaxing pre-/post-dinner cocktail in the Observation Bar or just people watching at the Sky Bar.  I realize every cruise is different, but I'm guessing my 14day in March (spring break/family vacations) will be more like this cruise than it will be like the cruises in Jan/Feb.  I'm sure the fact that they sell the cruises in 7 day segments doesn't help these demographics much either. Oh well, live and learn I guess.

Thank you for the review.  I must say, as a first time Seabourn cruiser on the Odyssey next March, I find this concerning.  Some if these things are not at all what I would expect from a luxury line.  Didn't the Odyssey just complete a dry dock this spring?