SunNFunCruzer

42 minutes ago, cbfb said:

I would absolutely cruise with unvaccinated people once I know for sure that the ship will be allowed to dock and the healthy passengers will not have to quarantine. I believe this will not happen until the world is vaccinated.

In addition to the fact that children cannot be vaccinated and that there have been breakthrough cases and, in some much older populations, breakthrough cases leading to deaths, I believe that the risk to those vaccinated is low, but not zero. The larger concern is the risk to mankind.

Americans have access to the vaccine and have the luxury of deciding when and where to be vaccinated, while many in the developing world are literally dying while they wait for the opportunity to be vaccinated.  Many of the destinations cruiseships travel to are relatively poor with antiquated medical facilities.  Why would the governments of these places allow unvaccinated cruisers to potentially infect their populations?  So, even if fellow vaccinated-cruisers are safe from unvaccinated cruisers, as the quote above states, until the rest of the world (or, at least the destinations where ships dock/anchor), is vaccinated, I don't see full resumption of cruising.

Earlier this week when two or three guests on a MSC ship were diagnosed COVID positive, they were let off in Italy and the ship continued with its itinerary.  MSC did not mandate vaccines, while Celebrity did. MSC also does not have majority American cruisers. I sure hope that is not the "protocol" that ships sailing out of US ports with American cruisers implement.

2 passengers on the Celebrity Millennium out of St Martin just tested COVID positive today and that ship is 95% vaccinated.  The Millie is running at ~30% capacity.  I don't see how the CDC/US Government is Not going enforce mandatory vaccinations, which I think could be the silver lining of these Covid situations. 

Add these two COVID positive cases on Millie to the 2 positive from the MSC cruise in Italy earlier this week, and I wonder if the new variants are causing breakthrough cases, or if passengers aren't being honest about being vaccinated?!  

One big difference:  MSC did not require vaccines, while Celebrity did.

I really hope the Cruiselines that want to sail out of the US take this as a wake-up call and either move the ships away from Florida and Texas, or call DeSantis and Abbott's bluff and mandate vaccines.  How will those Governors and CEOs feel if a child or god-forbid two dies of COVID caught on one of these ships? This is a life or death situation and the kids have no voice and no protection.  Everyone who is eligible for the vaccine should be vaccinated to protect others around them.

4 hours ago, grandgeezer said:

 

I wasn't referring to your post from January, I was referring to you latest post at the time. You would have seen as it was just above my replies.

I was contradicting your three points by giving the facts, as I know them, on why they were what they were. I didn't just blatantly spew them out.

I was looking for the logic that drove you to them.

 

Once again,  I have NO IDEA what you are talking about.  What 3 points?

In the post that you quoted, I said: 

23 hours ago, grandgeezer said:

 

I stand by my earlier statements on this thread.  I was correct about no April or May cruises.  If the article below is true, I will be right about stock price, too.

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/26/coronavirus-bailout-could-exclude-carnival-norwegian-royal-caribbean-cruise-lines.html

 

And the statements in that post were proven true.  The article WAS accurate that cruiselines cannot currently receive bailout funds AND today ALL 3 major cruiselines stocks are down approximately 15% if not greater.  I also stated that CEO & Corporations should have a rainy day cash fund -- that's indisputable.   

The lines have secured loans for now.  If the cruise stoppage extends for up to 6 months, there will be another liquidity squeeze.  People will delay booking cruises so the lines will not have the cash deposit floats.  Only time will tell how this all shakes out for the cruiselines and their stock.

40 minutes ago, omeinv said:

 

Wow!  What a denigrating spin.

 

 There's no spin. It was a fact based statement to support why I thought the rising stock could fall again before stabilizing.  Salespeople and Marketers are great at selling products.  Here, there is no product to sell, and there may not be for a while.  Then, when the product exists again, the public perception of that product could well be one that has never before existed.  For many people the idea of cruising has been changed forever by the numerous quarantines and spreading sickness. 

The industry itself has contributed to some of that shift by requiring those 70 and older to be certified "healthy" to cruise by a doctor.  For some lines people over 70 had the time, resources and desire to cruise.  We're in uncharted territory.

40 minutes ago, omeinv said:

 

That is EXACTLY the pedigree a CEO of a cruise line should have.  Someone who worked their way up through the company.

 

Here we disagree again. My reading of her resume does not show someone who worked her way up through the company. From on-board a ship in housekeeping to kitchen to waitress to Reception to Department Manager then to District Manager, etc, etc.  She went from Sales to higher sales then higher sales again to President.   In my view, the Sales background is the problem when I am evaluating the current situation.  My post, my opinion. YMMV.

And, to follow-up on why I think the stock will fall again.   Do you realize that the last time I checked, the President of Celebrity Cruises Lisa, was reported to be a Travel Agent with an undergraduate degree in accounting from a small private college in Boston (Bentley) who was promoted and promoted in Sales positions until she landed as the first female president of a large cruiseline?

Would you want your Travel Agent running the company you work for?  I, for one, would not.  Well-run Corporations have cash on hand for a rainy day.  Salespeople chase the next sale and the next dollar.  Celebrity/RCL/Carnival/NCL and many other irresponsible companies do not have rainy day funds.  That's one of my points.   

Capitalism in times of prosperity and Socialism (ie Government Corporate handouts) during times of hardship is how the rich get rich and stay rich -- exploiting the lower and working classes.  At some point, the lower/middle classes will get wise and rebel.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisa_Lutoff-Perlo

1 hour ago, grandgeezer said:

 

Your first two comments with no real facts is laughable.

 

You posted a lot of words, but I still don't understand your post.

I posted that cruises would not happen and that I would not be celebrating the increasing stock price too soon. I also said that it was irresponsible for the cruiselines to have given away all their cash profits in the form of dividends and buybacks, loading on debt while it was sunny and having nothing in the coffers when the storm came.  So, again, what are you talking about?

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2737733-rcl-share-price/page/12/?tab=comments#comment-59715071

2 minutes ago, grandgeezer said:

 

One out of three, not great.

 

Huh?  What does this mean?

3 hours ago, grandgeezer said:

 

You do realize the big spike was probably brought on by the stimulus package being passed in the U.S., which appears to include some financial help to the lines. It jumped up when they announced they had a deal, and dropped down 1/2 when they didn't. It's up today because it passed. All this did was lessen the fears of the lines going out of business, for awhile at least.The big elephant in the room, and the main cause for the big drop is the virus. I've neither seen no heard any reason for it lessening or going away. Stock prices or usually based on what people, or financial institutions think will happen in the future,if this last much longer, it looks pretty gloomy for all of us just not the cruise lines,

You do realize that, it's just a guess, but a lot of the future bookings are financed by the thousands and thousands, with probably more to come, fccs being the down payment. That's the cash they are using now.

I stand by my earlier statements on this thread.  I was correct about no April or May cruises.  If the article below is true, I will be right about stock price, too.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/26/coronavirus-bailout-could-exclude-carnival-norwegian-royal-caribbean-cruise-lines.html

49 minutes ago, HS2BS said:

 

Or are the going to use the cash deposits that folks are putting down now for those April 10th cruises forward?  
People have short memories about bad things, but cruising in the foreseeable future will never be the same!! Those over 70 rule out, high prices will limit a lot of would be multiple cruisers to just a smaller amount then they use to do.

Hal

 

I wouldn't be celebrating the increasing stock price too soon.

The CDC just released its updated findings from the Diamond Princess and they found that the CoronaVirus lived on surfaces in the staterooms of both symptomatic and asymptomatic passengers for 17 days ~after~ the cabins were emptied.  17 days on surfaces!  

If that's true, it's no wonder the virus spreads so easily on a ship from cruise to cruise.  As I said on a previous thread, if this is proven true, I don't see how any cruises or cruise lines can sail in April or May out of the US with the current infection rates. And I'd expect all stock prices will fall... again.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/23/cdc-coronavirus-survived-in-princess-cruise-cabins-up-to-17-days-after-passengers-left.html

I hope the lesson learned is for all these corporations to save cash for a rainy or sick day.

The CDC just released findings that CoronaVirus / Covid19 lasted ON surfaces INSIDE Diamond Princess Cabins/Staterooms for 17 days after people both symptomatic and asymptomatic LEFT the ship. Alive on surfaces for 17 days!  I don't see how cruises are going to restart in April or May.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/23/cdc-coronavirus-survived-in-princess-cruise-cabins-up-to-17-days-after-passengers-left.html

2 hours ago, Wanna_Cruize said:

 

Well, the good news is the newer testing kits and procedures get results MUCH faster, so they should (hopefully) only allow people on the ship who have a negative test result. 

 

As I understand the situation, there are 2 problems: 1) the time it takes/took to get a result and 2) the fact that the results are inconsistent -- you can have 2 negatives then a positive OR 1 positive, 1 negative then 1 positive, which is why you need an initial positive and then two negatives in a row within, I think, 24 hours to be called virus free.  Someone in China was declared virus-free then either was reinfected OR the virus reactivated... I don't think they is any way to know which for sure.

The ships will be good and helpful IF they can ensure they remain virus free.  People are still going to have accidents where they need bones set, stitches, etc.

Let's hope some of these suppressing drugs work.  I'd love for things to get back to "normal" sooner rather than later. People I know are already being laid off.  So sad.

Celebrity knew a lot of things that they claimed they did not know.    This I know.  

A bit of positive news.  The question is:  who will they treat or house on the ships and what happens if/when the first case of Corona is identified onboard?  We know from the Diamond that this is only a good idea IF they can ensure that the ship remains virus free.

Whether this offer is accepted or not, the stock popped today on the news -- it was up between 5-10% at various times.  A little good publicity at this moment is a good thing.

25 minutes ago, spencerdrivecruiser said:

 

Of course I have empathy for them.  Imagine losing $110,000,000 of worth in two weeks time?

 

i dont care what they paid per share with options and or incentives (bonuses).  Bottom line was their RCL holdings dropped by an unthinkable amount.  I am sure LLP is hurting too.

 

My guess is the Captain Club Perks will be diminished.  Before this crisis it was obvious that the loyal cruises were not catered to as much as the suite guests and the newbie cruisers. I doubt the marketing model will change.  As I write this, the Dow futures are down 850.  When will this bleeding stop?

 

R Fein and LLP were part of the Executive team that decided to pay Billion$$$ in Dividends and to spend almost a billion on stock buybacks instead of keeping cash on hand for an emergency.  They decided that debt was soo cheap, they couldn't resist loading up on more and more, while they gave away the cash they had to shareholders and Insiders/Executives.

Stock Buybacks are a scam that should never be allowed.  The US Government has already committed to pumping over $1.5 Trillion in to this market and it barely makes a difference.  This situation IS unprecedented, but IF LLP and Fein et al had planned for a rainy day and had not gotten greedy chasing a higher and higher artificially inflated stock price, they wouldn't be as damaged as they are right now.  It would still be a bloodbath, but one they could, maybe, survive.

These ships are Foreign Flagged, if the US Government wants to help travel agents, Corporate employees based in Florida or elsewhere in the US, taxi drivers, port workers, US tour operators contracted by the cruiselines, that's no problem, but giving US tax dollars to Foreign Corporations while so many Americans are, and will be, suffering would be criminal.   

43 minutes ago, buddyboo714 said:

Thank you for the suggestion.  I am new to this site so not really sure what roll call is?

  

 

 

 

 

The woman that everyone is referring to who passed away on this cruise on March 6^th, 2020 was my sister.  If anyone has any information, no matter how minor it may seem to you, it may prove to be vital information.  We are having a difficult time piecing this together as we are not getting the help we thought we would.  If you heard anything, saw anything, have any video footage…..anything at all, PLEASE reach out to me!!!  I can’t stress enough how important it is to get in touch with any information you may have!!!   My family thanks you in advance for any information you are able to provide.

Hello, I am so sorry to hear about your sister's death.  Condolences.  I was booked on the next cruise, that was to leave FLL on 3/15.  I posted your plea on the March 6th Roll Call.  A Roll Call is a semi-private group where mostly passengers on that sailing post.  I added the post below, but you may want to start a new email account and post the address so people can contact you directly and privately (do not use your actual address, as that leaves you open to fraud). 

Good luck, I hope you find the information and peace you are searching for:    

"Hello All, the Sibling of the Passenger who passed away on this Cruise on March 6th is begging for any information on their Sister's death. 

User name is buddyboo714  Here is link to their post.... I hope someone can help. What a tragedy: [with a link to your posts]"

3 minutes ago, caribbeansun said:

 

Which cruise did this relate to?

The March 6th - 15th since it turned around back to Florida twice.  And... it seems the Pax were exposed to Corona Virus from the previous cruise.  Not worth it, if you ask me.

1 hour ago, Aggravation said:

 

 a credit from Celebrity for $23.16 - a bit lighter than my expectations - perhaps they deducted a service charge as if it were a bar tab.  This should be fun to sort out in the midst of the chaos.  

 

$23.16 as 25% of a 12 night cruise?  Please use smoke signals to tell us all the name of your Agent!  Lol!  ;-p  Looks like they dropped a zero...  or two?  

Please report back!  And good luck with the continued negatives.

16 minutes ago, Fouremco said:

 

See para 3 of my OP. We've been told "yes" but the FCC doesn't say one way or another.

 

Someone on another thread said they were told by their TA that they were allowed to use it on an already booked cruise, but if they applied it, they were going to lose the perks that came with the initial booking. 

People responded to change TAs, but no one ever answered, for sure, whether that type of limitation was one of the "additional terms and conditions."

Just now, jcpc said:

 

Profits over People is the mantra of ALL corporations......not just Celebrity.  

 

I disagree. Some Corporations reacted to this situation very quickly to protect employees and customers.  I am still trying to confirm, but am 99% confident, that Celebrity knew there had been infected passengers on Summit while new cruisers cruised and they gave no warning.  I know with 100% certainty that they knew a prior Silhouette passenger was reported as symptomatic on a previous cruise, and they did not notify the next set of passengers. 

This is Negligent and inexcusable.  I hope they (cruiselines) Do Not receive a federal bailout of any kind.  Let the market decide what happens.  Live by Capitalism, die by Capitalism.

22 minutes ago, WonderMan3 said:

Yes, especially knowing now that there was an opportunity in San Juan to do a safety medical check on passengers and they chose not to do that. Shocking.

 

Profits over People.  It's clear that's the mantra Celebrity has followed from the beginning.  They do not want to risk having to manage and pay for a quarantine.   Tells you everything you need to know about the company we trust with our lives.

14 minutes ago, sakigemcam said:

After an arduous day of travel we are finally back in our home state. As journalists, we cannot stop asking ourselves questions about this recent sailing we were on. Don’t @ us, but maybe we can put our minds to rest through discourse here. Speculation has been rampant. 
 

1.  We understand why we had to go back to Miami the first time; to drop off a body 😞 Not sure if it was murder or suicide. Tragic. 
2.  We believe there was an at sea med evac the first night. We saw someone who appeared to be having a seizure night 1 in the dining room. We never saw anyone at that table thereafter so perhaps it was this poor gentleman and we hope he’s faring well. 
3. The Captain addressed the above two incidents and stated they were not related to the C-virus. 
4. When we returned the second time to Miami after having made headway south, as discussed on prior threads, two seemingly fit people got off on their own and chatted with police etc. then got into a taxi after taking Pics with the ship behind them. 
5. This time, the Captains communique did not stress it was unrelated to the virus, but said it was medical and needed “further evaluation.” (or observation) 

6. So what was it? If they were able to walk off themselves, why couldn’t we drop them at the first port? They left in a cab, not an ambulance or police car. 
 

We thought the crew was incredible and the ship immaculate. But we feel like a big piece of information we should be privy to. We are not at ease right now. 
 

 

Welcome Home... although it's not the same as when you left!  We were booked on the cruise immediately after yours, so were following your sailing closely.

It was reported that there were 3 incidents:   1) was a death,  2) was a medical emergency,  and, 3) was a suicide.

The main topic of discussion once the news was released, was the fact that a man in his 40's who had been on the Silhouette cruise before your cruise tested CoronaVirus positive in Canada and reported that he had symptoms while he was on the ship. 

As journalists, this is a story that could actually affect you and your health.  I am trying to find out if, and when, Canadian Authorities notified X since no one on these forums has reported that Celebrity notified them of the potential risk.

Details are below:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitchener-waterloo/covid-19-coronavirus-waterloo-region-fifth-case-1.5497808

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitchener-waterloo/2-more-cases-of-coronavirus-confirmed-in-waterloo-region-1.5495126

1 hour ago, sippican said:

 

The liklihood of going under increases with every refund taken instead of an FCC. I do inderstand that everyone needs to do what is best for them personally, without relying on a rumor for guidance.

 

I agree with this 1000%.  And initially was going to select the FCC, but then I started reading the news and government websites and I realized that Celebrity must have been notified about some of these Canadian passengers who are now infected, especially the man off the Silhouette who, it's been reported, was symptomatic ON the ship in EARLY MARCH.

Is it possible the Canadian Government didn't notify Celebrity? Maybe...  But I'd guess it's highly unlikely they were Not notified, while it is 100% true that Celebrity did not notify any of its boarding cruisers that there was a potential problem. 

If X is going to look out for X, why shouldn't we look out for ourselves and each other?

Anyone know where/if we can contact Canadian Authorities to find out who knew what and when?   TIA