npcl
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Posts posted by npcl
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53 minutes ago, Spif Barwunkel said:
The published Healthy Sail Panel recommendations are quite thorough and I believe well done. Regarding passengers, it is quite clear that prior to embarkation, among other stipulations, guests will need to attest adherence to and compliance with all requirements while onboard. Failure to do so will result in denial of boarding.
I saw nothing pertinent to guest behavior once on the ship and what consequences could result from failure to comply. Apparently there are none specified. In an effort to be "guest sensitive" perhaps the panel thought it best not to rile the paying people. So there you go. I don't see any individual cruise line establishing their own penalties since it has not been recommended to do so. I wonder how folks will feel about that.
no need to specify new penalties.
it would fall under failure to obey crew instructions, the penalty of which can include being put off at next port.
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2 minutes ago, cangelmd said:
My guess is that the cruise line will eventually make an arrangement with a nationwide lab like Quest or LabCorp and “provide” the test for you. You will get a document with you other check in documents that shows the applicable date range for the test to be acceptable. The results would go directly to the cruise line and maybe to you, or perhaps a “no news is good news” policy - hope they would let you know because of mixups.
As a pathologist whose been working on this, a PCR 4-5 days out followed by a rapid test at boarding is pretty good - that’s as good or better than we are doing for pre-ops, and we have been In a high risk area. It would work even better if they retested everyone in rolling groups, or at least included passengers in the random surveillance- if that was in the document I missed it. Don’t confuse diagnosis with prevention of spread. As it said in the document, these are layers of risk mitigation, no one step is perfect. SNFs and assisted living are doing similar protocols and a spokesman for the CDC compared the living density on a cruise ship to a nursing home (not the age, don’t start!).Availability of testing is definitely a factor, but it goes up every day. Part of the issue now is that we don’t test in the US without a doctors order, and no one wants to pay for it, all of that can be worked around, but someone has to pay for it, and there has to be informed consent. With testing in schools we are starting to develop more of a surveillance system rather than a diagnostic system.
As for the millions of tests, we are talking about 100K at most to start, millions of cruisers won’t be happening until there is a vaccine.
I certainly agree with the advance pcr, coupled with quick test at boarding would be best.
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8 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:
OK. Let's assume that CCL was "miffed". They chose to do what they did for whatever reasons that they had. Is that a good reason why they have not been involved in this Healthy Sail Panel?
I think that they did not want their name with their competition. there was no reason for them to do so since the panel is really not offering anything new, and it was clear that the report was going to be used by CLIA.
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11 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:
Add that to the reversal within 24 hours of the latest CDC postings about how far in the air the virus can spread. Who is in charge of HHS, the FDA, the CDC? Goofy, Donald Duck? No, it must be the Roadrunner.
my read is Alizar Secretary of HHS is trying to restrict the line agencies and he is using HHS legal to try and force the agencies to do things that they oppose.
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53 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:
Basically CCL took all their toys (ships) and left US waters in a fit of pique (my words) because they disagreed with CDC's requirement to monitor COVID on ships still in US waters with crew. They also seem to want to baulk at plans for restarting in the US, which is basically what this "Healthy Sail" panel is about -- cruise lines that want to get started cruising back in the US sooner rather than later.
To tell the truth, I didn't see much different there than what is currently being done by MSC and Tui on their "early" Med cruises -- at least to the extent known. I suspect there will end up being more commonalities than differences among how the various cruise lines plan to restart "safely".
a couple of difference MSC does more testing of crew before boarding ship and I believe the crew does their quarantine period on shore before joining ship.
also MSC does the testing at time of boarding, in these recommendations the testing including cost is the responsibility of the passenger, done in advance.
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1 minute ago, rkacruiser said:
Your comment expresses an opinion that I have not read on CC from others. A "fit of pique"? Why did you choose those words to post?
I certainly agree with her and have posted similar comments about the cruise lines lack of cooperation with CDC, the efforts they have taken to avoid testing and reporting results, including their removal of ships from us waters.
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37 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:
Yes, I realize that. Do you think their release was timed to coincide with the end of the CDC's period for public comment?
that and the timing of the expiration of the no sail order.
with the stunts that HHS has pulled and the recent power grab that all new regulations must be signed by Secretary of HHS taking away that authority from FDA and CDC not even sure if CDC can issue an extension without HHS signing.
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21 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:
We're in central Alabama. Who does one even contact to get a rapid COVID test when you don't have any symptoms, but need to get a certificate within 5 days of a cruise saying you tested negative? I would think the only test that would work with such a short notice would be some sort of rapid test which, of course, has to be administer by some reputable organization which would be authorized to provide some form of official verification of the results that same day. Fun times!!
rapid tests are less accurate than pcr. will be interesting to see what the cruise lines will accept.
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2 minutes ago, Baron Barracuda said:
Amazing how this document is released this morning and CLIA immediately announces once CDC signs off (and they believe it should), they are prepared to resume sailing on Nov. 1st. I'm not so sure.
A key element to the plan is universal testing for passengers and crew. Test them once, test them twice, test a third time if necessary. Absolutely necessary. Question is where will they get all these test kits? My oldest daughter is a doctor in a level 1 trauma center in the midwest. She was just tested for the first time (negative). Tried to get the rest of her family tested but no luck as test kits are in short supply. Youngest daughter is a middle school teacher in NJ. Two teachers in her school came down with covid. District is unable to have other teachers tested due to lack of kits. While a number of new tests have been approved they are all in short supply and it will take quite a while to increase production to a level where supply equals demand. Meanwhile hospitals, first responders, schools and businesses are all clamoring for more tests. Cruise lines will be a lower priority, so how do they hope to obtain the millions of tests they require? Maybe next spring, not Nov. 1st.
in addition tests for screening for travel may not be covered by insurance (not medically necessary) so the issue of additional expense comes up.
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another issue is since the test is for screening for travel, it might not be considered to be medically necessary by insurance. depending on where the test is taken and the lab analyzing it, it can get rather expensive not sure how many have put that cost into their travel plans.
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15 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:
We're in central Alabama. Where does one go to get a COVID test when you don't have any symptoms, but need to get a certificate within 5 days of the cruise saying you tested negative?
ordered by your doctor, urgent care facility or lab. problem is since it is not a medical necessity, your insurance company may not pay for it and the tests can get rather pricey since for medically required tests the insurance company is mandated to pay full price.
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3 minutes ago, Gracie115 said:
Hope springs eternal for the future of cruising:
one item. they mention that in case someone tests positive, they will be removed from the ship as soon as it can be done safely. Does not mention how the person will get home, who will be responsible for their expenses, etc.
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32 minutes ago, portiemom said:
That limitation -- that the viral particles must be present -- is not exclusive to SARS-CoV-2. All PCR tests require the target to be present. All laboratory tests have false negative and false positive rates. All laboratory test results must be interpreted with the patient's full clinical picture in mind. Nothing exclusive to COVID.
no but what is unique to Covid is trying to use testing to keep people off ship. what is also somewhat unique to covid is the issues getting a detectable sample even with serious cases.
According to a John Hopkins study the chance of a false negative is at best 20% at 7 days, and much worse earlier or later(as high as 80%, mostly around 40%) while other illnesses also will have false negative rates with PCR, Covid is one of the worst. Combine that with asymptomatic spread and the fact that the faster tests tend to be even less accurate than pcr you have a problem waiting to happen if you depend too much on testing.
The test is better to see the amount of cases in the boarding population. based upon studies if you detect no or 1 case the odds are in your favor that the cruise is covid free, if you detect 10 let's say, the odds are pretty high that you will have cases slip through.
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18 minutes ago, suekel said:
I think by January, instant testing or at home testing will become the norm. At my hospital we're testing out a new nasal swab that just goes a bit into the nose, so easy it can be done at home and dropped off at a lab. But, I think all this leads to will be testing that takes an hour or less, can be done at embarkation. Israel is making strides on this too.
the problem with covid is the limitations in testing due to the nature of the virus. a test cannot detect the virus if it is not present in the sample. even pcr has a 20% false negative rate.
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49 minutes ago, gerelmx said:
The most probable thing and what is happening is that the passengers are canceling, if AA cancels it does so until the last minute, not with the anticipation with what we do.
that is why you do not cancel until the last minute. All of the flights I had pre covid were canceled by the airlines at least 48 hours before the flight. Some months esrlier.
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41 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:
Initial recommendations for re-start -- cruises not longer than 10 days, ideally not longer than 7 days.
Fewer ports, utilize private islands where feasible, or ensure tight control at other ports (including only ship-sponsored tours).
Crew housed individually "where possible" (not exactly a mandate; I'd like stronger wording here.)
Emphasis placed on cruise lines having a plan in place for an unanticipated mass debarkation if needed and that cruise lines should also have a plan to get any sick passengers home without mixing with healthy ones. (I think this is likely a non-negotiable for CDC at any rate....given what we've seen.)
The first two things I mention alone are enough to make cruising sound pretty unappetizing to me in the near-term.
this is just their recommendations. Will still need to see how the cruise lines address them in their actual plans.
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3 hours ago, gerelmx said:
AA not giving cash back only credit with 1 year expiration from purchase date
Sent from my iPhone using Forumshad no problem getting a cash refund from AA for a flight they cancelled.
If a passenger cancels when the flight is still scheduled then the passenger will get a voucher.
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the report itself is an advisory document. the cruise lines will still need to do their plans which should include more specifics.
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Just now, Goodtime Cruizin said:
It isn't me or just me, it's thousands upon thousands of cruisers. I'm just throwing this out there. You need fully understand this. You're wanting to cruise again so bad that you're expecting a certain protocal to be in place and then expecting it to be enforced. And in doing so, you're betting YOUR LIFE that it will be. Good luck with that.
based upon the report from the healthy sail committee the cruiselines will be requiring masks and passengers will have to certify that they will comply with the rules
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12 minutes ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:
By the way.... the curve has been flattened and deaths are back to almost exact numbers of pre-Covid days. I do believe we are on the way to much better days ahead. Cruising included.
your chart cuts off in July when US deaths was at a low point. The 7 day moving average is at a little over 800 Covid deaths per day in the US at this time.
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On 9/20/2020 at 5:52 AM, LoveThatCorgi said:
I agree. The only other thing I consider is that to date, this process has seemingly been controlled by a single entity, and they haven't seemed inclined to move forward. I submitted a comment over a week ago on their July 21 RFI, and it has yet to be reviewed and posted to the comments section. Honestly, I expect them to extend, yet again, their no sail order. A panel with oversight might at least take decisions out of the hands of a single entity and provide a more broad-based review.
I have reached out to our senators and asked that they consider supporting this proposal.
they have not moved forward because the cruise had not submitted plans prior to this week. According to the head of Princess, the CLIA cruise lines, including princess will be submitting plans to the CDC this week. the healthy sail panel set up by ecl and nclh just released their report today.
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4 minutes ago, marieps said:
The deal breaker for me...
the Panel recommends that cruise operators initially prohibit self-guided tours and independent exploration and only allow certain curated indoor activities until further notice. This is a significant change to the cruise experience, so the Panel recommends this information be communicated clearly and early on to guests.
Paying X an expensive fee to go to the beach is not in the cards. If they offer free shuttle rides, fine.
they also recommend limiting initial trips to ports that can be controlled such as the private islands and other tightly controlled ports. so the beach would be restricted to ones with limited access.
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APPROPRIATE ACTIONS OR EXTREME MEASURES?
in Celebrity Cruises
Posted
South rim of Grand Canyon was wonderful last week. rooms available at el tovar for same day walk in. other lodges half full. not crowded along rim. good mask compliance indoors, even good percentage of those hiking bright angel trail wore masks.