Ride-The-Waves

We need to remember that this edict comes from CLIA and offers guidance to its members.  Its not a specific Celebrity created requirement.  Still, it needs to be moderated.  Being on a ship is not the same as on land.  Cruising - travel by ship - has its inherent challenges to include distance from a medical center.  CLIA and its members should also state/understand that if a doctor declines to certify one's health for cruising that immediately triggers either/both a refund or insurance coverage for the cost of the trip.

On 4/11/2020 at 12:05 AM, ldubs said:

 

Or, put another way, should a BMI of 30 or greater not be allowed to board.   

Stopping them would shut down the food troughs...

Uniworld is part of The Travel Corporation which is owns numerous travel agencies, hotels and tour operators.  Likely the privately held company is hemorrhaging money at the moment and Uniworld may be its only "cash cow" left with the possibility of generating income.  Sad to see what is a good company dragged down like this.  

The real fear with Larry's departure is that he is aware that RCCL has either made the decision or looking seriously at how to restart cruising, and the restart does not include Azamara.  Cutting Azamara's three ships is the easiest way for the corporation to quickly reduce expenses.  Its much easier than cutting ships out of X or RCI.  Its easier to sell the "R" ships than it is to sell off the larger and expensive to operate larger ships of X and RCI.  No one wants an Oasis class anymore.  

At a similar point with Uniworld, a company and ship we have enjoyed cruising with for the last decade.  Likely no more.  Currently have $20,000 invested in a cruise through France this June in a country currently closed to tourism and they are essentially saying "tough!"  We have your money...so go away.  Really frustrated.  

Uniworld has changed its cancellation/FCC/reschedule polices at least 4-5 time since early March.  Very frustrating for a company we once enjoyed cruising.

I guess its really our fault for believing in Uniworld and following their payment policies.  We provided a final payment in January for a June cruise totaling $20,000.  Cruising through France this June is a non-starter.  France is "closed" to tourism for the foreseeable future.  Uniworld is still using our original sailing date as the basis for cancellation fees, now at 100 percent if canceled in May.  Or, take an FCC and lets just add several thousand more dollars to the same cruise in 2021.  No other options.  We have sailed with Uniworld half a dozen times in Europe and China.  So what.  Uniworld has our money and they are not offering anything realistic in return.  Unbelievable.  Caveat Emptor.

16 hours ago, Esprit said:

Well Enchanted Princess is in the Mediterranean and is expected to sail back to Ft Lauderdale in the autumn.

Enchanted is still in the shipyard in northern Italy and work has stopped.  

Pure speculation regarding schedules for other ships with timing dependent on a vaccine, country/port clearances, crew/labor markets, costs (and available workforce) to return ships to acceptable standards.  The US no-sail order extends through July.  

IF, and its a big "IF," any part of the Med cruising season will be available (don't count on any French, Italian or Spanish ports), several ships could deadhead eastbound for a part season and then trans-Atlantic west.  

I don't say any of this lightly having reservations on Enchanted for an October Med cruise then its first TA.  Its likely more cost effective to keep Enchanted in a pre-operational status and activate existing ships than it is to finish Enchantment.

7 hours ago, Ronin23 said:

How ridiculous....people are still aloud to have a laugh in the face of adversity, for some it’s quite therapeutic.  Try and lighten up.

Make light of others misfortune is never "lightening up."

11 minutes ago, Argo. said:

 

Some people must be trying to impress Celebrity with their continuous defense of the company despite the obvious clues that this corporation has absolutely no desire to satisfy even their most loyal passengers.  We're still waiting for a refund promised March 7th.  We have had several conversations with the company... the latest

"Thank you for contacting us.

In reference to your bookings , since you are booked through ********* and this is a financial question , you will have to go through your travel agency. I regret we are unable to assist you with your inquiry. Upon request, your travel agent can access any specific booking information for you."

 

Financial Question.... where's our refund?

In some instances, and in my case, the travel agency is holding up a full refund.  Cancelling means they lose their commission.  FCC means they keep their commission and monies already paid.  A wonderful slush fund for travel agencies.

Some here appear to act like Celebrity and the cruise line industry owe them.  Alert:  they don't.  If you don't want to live by the rules - don't cruise.  They are big businesses not your BFFs.  It's that simple!

There is a reasonable expectation that being healthy enough to cruise is a pre-requisite for embarking on any ship.  Lots of reasons to include safety, health and physical acuity.  Thirty years in the US Navy provides a good understanding that there are dangers at sea not experienced on land.

Hurtigruten, not a member of CLIA, requires a health certificate for all expedition passengers signed by a physician.  The certification provides the ship's doctor an expectation of the challenges some of the passengers may have on embarkation.  Its not age specific.  The ship's doctor retains a go/no go decision for the passenger.  Important in that expeditions, especially in places like Antarctica, can be out of reach of ashore medical facilities for 10 days or more.  Cruise ships, even the mega boats, are not medical centers and cannot treat serious accidents or illnesses.  They are designed to stabilize a patient and move him/her ashore at earliest opportunity.

I think this is a good policy even if born out of a pandemic.  Cruise ships are private, not public/government,  They can and should set standards for passengers, to include health and especially mobility standards.  My wife and I are both north of 75 and in good health, and enjoy sailing to visit new and interesting places.  

What is needed is a well designed form a physician's medical staff can complete from a patient's medical history and a physician can then endorse.  Should not be age specific.  Should provide a quick overview of whether a person is "cruise worthy," to include such things as mobility (climb into a life boat in emergency), controlled ailments with medications (listed), and mental acuity.  It should be sent to the ship's doctor or cruise line medical staff for acknowledgement that the prospective passenger's ailments are appropriately covered.  I would estimate that at least en percent of all cruisers are physically unable to respond appropriately to an emergency at sea, to include getting into a lifeboat.  That puts other at terrible risk.

Safer for all involved from the passenger him/herself, to fellow passengers, to crew.

2 hours ago, hcat said:

 

Celebrity's version of "social distancing" during COVID-19.  Impressive!

On 4/13/2020 at 8:53 AM, DWhit said:

History shows that life went on and returned back to normal after the last big pandemic of the 1919 Spanish Flu. I doubt this one will be much different.

"Cruising" wasn't an industry in 1919 and I seriously doubt it would have survived the Great Depression.  Better analogy would be those vacation industries that didn't come out of the Depression and the pre-war 1930 then into WWII.  The world changed.  COVID-19 is changing the world today.  "Cruising" will not be the same as is was three months ago.

Celebrity Cruises is a business, a very big business.  Its in the business of making money.  Period.  It offers a product and if the cruising public doesn't like that product then it has to change or go out of business.

Celebrity's CEO has not done loyal customers any favors over the last several years.  Celebrity used to cater to a bit upscale cruiser offering good value on really good ships.  Then they changed and became more profit oriented and prices soared while value declined.  Edge a perfect example.  Prices were very high when it first came out, and then prices doubled as many wanted to try the new concept.  No favors for long time clientele.  Its a business.  Now with the current challenge Celebrity is holding refunds and converting what should be refunds to FCC over the objections of their loyal clientele. 

Its a business and its not in the business of making friends these days, or for the past two-three years.  Sadly, since we have enjoyed Celebrity's ships and crews for decades.  Like with Viking (river and ocean), the ships are great, crews are great, but corporate only has one objective: separate you from your money for the least amount of return effort they can provide.

On 4/8/2020 at 5:23 AM, jonikal said:

 

 

https://www.foxnews.com/us/california-couple-contract-coronavirus-after-cruise-to-safest-place-antarctica

According to the article this has nothing to do with Antarctica or Hurtigruten, and everything to do with traveling through COVID-19 intense airports and cities.  And/or horrible reporting by "fox news."

I doubt if the draconian possibilities expressed in some of the comments above will come to fruition.  

There is a reasonable expectation that being healthy enough to cruise is a pre-requisite for embarking on any ship.  Lots of reasons to include safety, health and physical acuity.  Thirty years in the US Navy provides a good understanding that there are dangers at sea not experienced on land.

Hurtigruten, not a member of CLIA, requires a health certificate for all expedition passengers signed by a physician.  The certification provides the ship's doctor an expectation of the challenges some of the passengers may have on embarkation.  Its not age specific.  The ship's doctor retains a go/no go decision for the passenger.  Important in that expeditions, especially in places like Antarctica, can be out of reach of ashore medical facilities for 10 days or more.  Cruise ships, even the mega boats, are not medical centers and cannot treat serious accidents or illnesses.  They are designed to stabilize a patient and move him/her ashore at earliest opportunity.

I think this is a good policy even if born out of a pandemic.  Cruise ships are private, not public/government,  They can and should set standards for passengers, to include health and especially mobility standards.  My wife and I are both north of 75 and in good health, and enjoy sailing with Azamara (its like coming home).  

What is needed is a well designed form a physician's medical staff can complete from a patient's medical history and a physician can then endorse.  Should not be age specific.  Should provide a quick overview of whether a person is "cruise worthy," to include such things as mobility (climb into a life boat in emergency), controlled ailments with medications (listed), and mental acuity.  It should be sent to the ship's doctor or cruise line medical staff for acknowledgement that the prospective passenger's ailments are appropriately covered.  

Safer for all involved from the passenger him/herself, to fellow passengers, to crew.

On 4/2/2020 at 9:50 AM, Georgia_Peaches said:

The buffet has no appeal for us at all but when our children were younger, they loved it!  Mostly for the variety, as you described and the self-serve ice cream machines.  My opinion is that they will have to have crew serving the passengers at the very least.  But that can also pose a problem.  Things like cross contamination can occur even when crew are wearing gloves.  For example, a crew member could touch his/her face, scratch their nose, whatever, and then use their gloved hand to resume serving.  Retraining of sanitary food service protocols will need to be implemented before the ships start running again.  

 

The other thing to consider, and this is what has often bothered me about dining in the buffet, is that walking around with a plate of food from station to station exposes the food to airborne contaminants.  I would like to see the buffet stocked with plate covers as well.  Enter the line, pick up a clean plate and plate cover.  Have food served to you, cover with a plate cover, walk to the next station...etc. 

 

For us, I think we will just stick with the dining rooms but do hope they come up with some good practices so that those who enjoy the buffet can continue to do so when this passes.

All these same issues are present in food prepared in MDR kitchens and served by wait staff in MDRs.  Nothing mentioned is unique to a buffet.  IMO MDRs are the real problem: always too crowded, people/staff bumping into each other, too noisy, rude "guests," etc.  Then you have them multiple seatings...leaving little time for any thorough cleaning between diners.  

Lots of "head in the sand" comments.  This is a CLIA recommendation, not specific to a cruise line.  It is designed more to protect the cruiser.  And, no, you don't know better than the cruise line which has responsibility for everyone on board.  They are a private convenience and can set rules as they see best for everyone embarked.  Again, a CLIA recommendation to its members.

8 hours ago, TeeRick said:

Yes we get it from your numerous political-based comments that you are not a fan of the current administration.  

Mine are apolitical and based on fact.  Your comment is very political.

Most impractical suggestions I have ever heard.  Never work un less you want to return late 1930s Germany or practices in the Soviet Union era or maybe even today's China where people can be totally controlled and monitored.  Suggestions are also at odds with personal freedoms in western societies.  

On 4/8/2020 at 3:08 PM, cruising teacher80 said:

We are currently book on a June cruise out of Dublin to Ireland/Iceland and looking at possible replacement cruises for June of 2021 and but Celebrity no longer goes out of Dublin but Amsterdam. which is a real bummer because I have done a lot of research on Dublin and have several days worth of activities that we were supposed to do.  Does anyone know why and if they will ever be using the Dublin port again? Thanks

Best option may be a 3-4 day stay in Dublin (really could do more than that and still not see everything in the city and nearby), then fly to a European city with frequent cruise departures.  Of course, that may nit be available until 2021.

On 4/6/2020 at 5:28 PM, PTC DAWG said:

Someone wants the economy devastated.  

The White House has already taken the lead on that.

23 hours ago, AF-1 said:

This link is for AMAWaterways.  The article gives anyone who sails with them; some sense of hope that this company will be in business after the pandemic crisis is over.  

https://www.seatrade-cruise.com/news/europe-could-be-cruising-july-us-big-unknown-amawaterways-schreiner

I think a June/July return to operations is very optimistic.  Countries like France and Italy have been hit very hard and are essentially "closed" to tourism.  Germany is in better prepared but has enacted very strict social distancing rules, etc.  That said, river cruising is likely to restart before ocean cruising  as many countries (and their cities) are just not ready to accept port visits by ocean cruise ships.  Hopefully some river cruising will be available in the Fall and for the Holiday Markets season.

On 4/8/2020 at 9:59 AM, zitsky said:

How do we explain people who have recovered and become ill again?

Mutation.  A new/different strain.

We appear to be caught in the middle between "suspension" and "cancellation," caused by the travel agent.

Reference post #3 above.  While Uniworld was willing to cancel per phoncon, our TA apparently talked them into giving us partial money back and partial FCC.  We can live with that despite our ages (late 70s) and the prospect of being told we cannot cruise anymore.  However, in delving into the finances it appears the sole reason for not cancelling outright is that the TA loses its share/commission of the fare.  In our case that is about $2,000.  The TA appears to not be representing our interests fairly and more concerned with their own interest and viability.  Unethical at best.  Fraud at worst.  Still contemplating what to do about this...