KnowTheScore

Not really

 

I just want to have a cruise and be reasonably confident that I will be able to get off at the ports we visit instead of being refused entry.

10 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

I haven't, Andrew.  I hear very mixed reports, quite a few of which suggest it's not that much better, except perhaps in the Grills.

 

Is it better?

 

I have heard the same.   Some say food is actually worse than P&O, at least in the lower class areas.   The whole fact that they still operate a class system is a major off-putting factor for many cruisers.   Why on earth in this day and age that still exists is a mystery to me but I guess there's a pompous market out there that enjoys the privilege of exclusivity and can afford it.   I don't know how long that can be sustained though in today's world.  It's pompous and ridiculous imho.

 

And perhaps this is a solution for Carnival overall.  If they want the P&O brand to be an Ocean Village style "easy cruise" then sort out Cunard and the longer standing tradition P&O cruises will likely flock to it provided Cunard maintain the decent levels of formality and service.

 

 

I take my own health seriously and I know that cruise lines are hugely focussed on health and safety but that's not the issue.

 

The issue is that cruise lines will be FORCED to comply with new medical protocols that specifically concern Coronavirus and equally every port authority will be under pressure to ensure that Coronavirus does not enter via ships and their crew and passengers.  So my concerns are merely a reflection of the protocols that will now be imposed on cruise lines and which I personally worry will result in passengers being refused permission to disembark at many if not every port of call, assuming one or more passengers present with simple flu like symptoms.   Surely someone else here understands this too?!

 

Will the cruise lines compensate passengers for inability to disembark at ports due to all of this???

 

I very very much doubt it !

As per other's replies staying on-board can be a very nice relaxing thing to do provided there aren't too many people having exactly the same idea!  

 

If it's a nice day you can go find a sun chair of your choice without any crowding.

 

You can pop into any of the lounge areas for a lovely quiet period to read a book.  The Crow's Nest if there is one, is often a good option for that.

 

You can probably go and watch a film in the ship's cinema if it has one and not have any trouble getting a seat.

 

You could take a nice lunch in one of the alternative dining restaurants without it being overly busy

 

You could enjoy a swim in one of the pools without it being over-crowded

 

and so on

 

Basically a great relaxing day

 

We have often done exactly this when visiting ports that are renowned for being over-crowded.  For example if you visit Dubrovnik in Croatia and have been before then it's worth counting how many ships are berthed there and if it is 4 or more just stay on board because with than many 1000s of passengers all cramming into the walled city is it simply unpleasant and feels unsafe.  

 

 

 

7 minutes ago, Adawn47 said:

We all know the pitfalls of being in crowded environments and if you never take the chance to go anywhere because of the risk of infections you'll miss out on a lot. 

 

You appear not to have read nor understood the point I have made in my OP.

 

I am not remotely worried or concerned about getting the Coronavirus itself, anymore than I am worried about catching Flu which kills thousands more people that Coronavirus does year on year.

 

My point is that when you book a cruise you expect to visit each destination on the itinerary, that's why you book a given cruise and partly what you pay your £000s for.

 

The problem now is that protocols for dealing with Coronavirus both on-board ship and at each individual port will surely adversely impact every cruise now.   The difficulty is knowing whether any given passenger has the virus or whether they just have ordinary cold/flu symptoms and until they confirm that ports imo will refuse permission for people to disembark.

 

Therefore as I currently see it, the basic proposition for taking a cruise, to visit ports on an itinerary is now completely changed because there's a good chance that you will be refused permission to disembark on a number of those ports as soon as someone shows ordinary symptoms of cold/flu (which of course happens of every cruise)

 

 

 

 

 

 

9 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

I suppose Carnival have done with P&O what Sports Direct have done with Slazenger, Kangol,  Karrimor, Muddyfox etc  - cheapened them while keeping the brand names to maintain the illusion of quality. 

 

It's a clever trick if you can pull it off, but it does lead to complaints like the ones here when you take things so far that the original brand values are so watered down as to become meaningless. 

 

Yes I believe you are correct Harry.

 

This all for me began when Ventura first joined the fleet and quickly gained the reputation of being a total "chav" ship.

Rules didn't seem to apply there and kids simply ran riot unchecked.  We saw kids racing around the atrium on all 3 levels playing "tiggy" right in front of reception desk and no-one did anything about it.   We had kids running down cabin corridors and shouting at past 1.00 in the morning and plenty of other undesirable things.  We never now cruise with Ventura during kids season.   The problem for me has been this dilution of the brand.   You see you simply can not have one ship being a "chav" ship or equivalent pandering to a specific "cheap seats" market and hope to keep the rest of the fleet intact.  What happens is Ventura cruisers ultimately pick a cruise on another ship like Aurora because of the itinerary and time of sailing and they fully expect that the rules and experience will be the same.  Pretty soon you have diluted the entire fleet.   Then they dumbed down the dress code for dining, most regrettable for me personally but that's where Carnival want to go so it's up to me to find an alternative cruise line that meets my expectations.   And so it goes on.   What was, is no longer, simple fact of life.

 

We have stuck with P&O for a long time through thick and thin and tried to endure cutback after cutback after cutback but it's just gone too far now.   Enough is enough.  I don't want an "Ocean Village" / Butlins style cruise.   I want a decent semi-formal relaxing cruise with refined evening meals and conversation and like-minded people.

 

 

 

 

15 minutes ago, Adawn47 said:

Oh dear me. I can only say that having spent an 18 night holiday in Malaysia during a bird flu epidemic, and never had  norovirus after a total of 12 cruises despite a bad outbreak on 2 of them, that if you never take a chance an listen to scaremongering you'll never do anything. 

 

 

I don't understand why you would refer to this as scaremongering of feel the need to do so.

 

The Carnival ship Costa Smeralda had its cruise disrupted purely because one or more passengers presented with

basic cold/flu like symptoms.  Passengers were denied permission to disembark in Italy.  This is a fact not supposition

or scaremongering.   Every cruise you go on sees a number of people come down with similar symptoms so how can

that not be an issue for all those wishing to cruise?

 

47 minutes ago, AndyMichelle said:

Fair points, but can I ask why specifically P&O? 

Do you have a cruise booked with them? 

Do you feel P&O have more of a risk, or have you posted this on every cruise lines board? 

Andy 

 

Your point is well made and if the post needs moving to a more general section of the forum I would be glad for the mods to move it.  New to the site and don't know my way around.   I have cruised P&O extensively so went here first.

As you highlight, Coronavirus will impact all cruise lines in the same way

 

Do you have a suggestion where the thread should reside.  I just had a quick look and "Cruise Discussions" might seem a natural place but which section beneath there?  Cruise News?   not sure.

 

Mods please move the thread to wherever it needs to go thanks

Coming to this topic 12 pages in . .  .

 

Yes I too very much regret the negative impact Carnival has had to the previously string brand of P&O Cruises.

 

I have written extensively to P&O about it to complain at the seeming never-ending stream of cuts they make and the deterioration of standards, quality of food, and formality aboard.  Those of us who have cruised with P&O for years are all too aware of the pecking away that has been going on by Carnival.  Newer cruisers probably won't appreciate the plethora of things that we no longer get.    By themselves, no single one of the many cutbacks that have been made are showstoppers but COLLECTIVELY they are massive and whilst the OP here likens it to "Butlins at sea" (which I totally sympathise with) I personally like to refer to is as nothing more than going to my local Weatherspoons pub.

 

Cruising with P&O used to be a real experience, cabins were special, had a special feel about them, evening meals were refined and with a good degree of formality and lest anyone is confused by that term let me make it absolutely clear, I don't mean stuffiness or pompous formality, I simply mean that evenings saw people make significant effort to be dressy to make each evening a "special occasion" rather than it be just like going to your local pub.   Since then Carnival abolished the "Informal" dress code level and left us with Smart Casual and black tie nights.   Smart Casual has inevitably just become casual with many people not making any effort at all and formal nights are a complete joke soured by young females dressed like slappers in dresses that just cover their behinds and platform "porn" shoes and the like.  It's honesty a complete joke.

 

There are so many things no longer present that you used to get which have dumbed down the overall cruise experience.

Again, none by themselves a showstopper but collectively just a complete mess imho.   Some examples are warranted.

 

In Cabins

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The advent of Coronavirus is having a major impact on travel worldwide.   Cruising is clearly a major risk environment

with 1000s of passengers all being couped up together in a confined space.   I pose the question at this point:

 

"Is there any point at all cruising during this outbreak"?

 

Why do I ask?

 

Let me be clear.  It's not because I fear catching Coronavirus.  It's because I fear that EVERY cruise from this point

on is going to be adversely impacted by all the stringent protocols now being implemented and which, imo, are sure to mean

that passengers will be denied access to ports as we have recently seen in the news with the Costa Smeralda ship

being quarantined and disembarkation of 6000 passengers and staff refused in an Italian port.

 

Note too that the Diamond Princess has just been quarantined in Japan due to a Coronavirus case.

 

Here's the nature of the problem I foresee. . . . .

 

Coronavirus presents the same as any standard cold/flu type virus.  Sore throat, coughing, fever etc etc.

 

If ANYONE presents with those standard symptoms once you sail then the person is going to be isolated

either in cabin or ship's medical facilities whilst tests are conducted to determine of they have Coronavirus.

As we saw with the Costa Smeralda ship, those tests took a number of days during which time

PASSENGERS WERE REFUSED PERMISSION TO DISEMBARK IN ITALY.

In the event it turned out that the Smeralda passenger just had ordinary cold/flu but of course by that

time the cruise had been impacted for EVERYONE.  Imagine if another passenger had similar cold/flu

symptoms at the next port.

 

This is what cruise lines ARE NOT telling you at the moment imho.    They will very happily tell you

that your health and safety are a priority and that they will be screening passengers at embarkation

and refusing boarding permission to anyone with high fever or who has been anywhere near China.

 

Sounds good and comforting but what they are NOT telling you is how likely it is that your cruise

will just involve sailing around at sea being denied entry to or being denied permission to

disembark at any port on your itinerary.

 

Understand that 100% if a passenger on-board presents with Coronavirus that nobody is going to

be allowed to get off in any port in my opinion.  The entire ship will be quarantined and your cruise

will be effectively ruined.   You will have paid £000s to simply sail around and be kept captive

on the ship.

 

Now consider equally what happens when someone presents with common cold/flu like symptoms

but we don't know at that point whether it is Coronavirus or not.   The same situation is surely going to apply.

Port Authorities are going to demand that ships declare whether there are any sick people on board

and if so they will refuse permission to disembark in my opinion.  Perhaps I am wrong?

 

The port of Gibraltar has already implemented new protocols that require a

"CORONAVIRUS DECLARATION FORM Number 000156" to be completed by every vessel that will call

at either the Western Anchorage, East anchorage, North Anchorage, any alongside berth, Quick turnarounds,

medical disembarkations, OPLA and OPLB  (according to Nepia.com)

https://www.nepia.com/industry-news/coronavirus-outbreak-impact-on-shipping/

 

It states:

"The form is to be filled in, signed and stamped.  No exemptions will be given. Agents are to stress to the captain to fill in this form carefully and to answer all questions.

• Please note that the following special conditions will apply to vessels who have answered yes to any of the questions in the declaration:
  • Remote pilotage requirements will be applied to the vessel.
  • No crew members will be allowed to disembark the vessel during its call at Gibraltar.
  • With respect to ongoing operations shore personnel embarking / attending the vessel will not be allowed then to disembark.
  • Shore personnel are to minimise all interaction with the crew as much as practically possible."

 

You can read a copy of the Corona Virus Declaration Form here:

 

https://www.nepia.com/for-156-coronavirus-declaration-v1/

 

It is Question 2 of that form that is the concern which asks the following:

 

"Within the last 15 days have you or any of your crew suffered from flu-like symptoms such as a dry

cough, onset of fever along with other symptoms like intense weakness, muscle pain, vomiting,

diarrhoea, headache or sore throat"  Yes/No ?

 

 

Clearly EVERY SINGLE CRUISE sees people suffer very ordinary cold/flu symptoms of that

nature so if the captain is going to answer honestly then he/she will have to say YES.

 

If he/she does respond YES then the Gibraltar protocol above clearly states that nobody will be allowed to

disembark. 

 

Surely if Gibraltar is doing this then other ports are going to do likewise.

 

The net result is surely that the moment the first passenger presents with the sniffles of

a plain ordinary cold or ILI (Influenza like illness) then the protocols are going to kick in

and people will be denied permission to disembark at ports UNTIL the affected person

has been cleared of Coronavirus.  This is surely going to adversely impact every

cruise for all passengers and crew alike.

 

Perhaps it's me but at this point in time I simply can not see how ANY cruise line is

going to be able to offer any kind of normal cruise service or experience.

 

I certainly don't want to shell out £000s only to find I can't disembark at numerous

ports or heaven forbid be stuck on an entirely quarantined ship with a Coronavirus

victim on-board.

 

Interested to know what others think about this.

 

I have written to P&O of course but only received the standard couple of paragraph

responses about passenger screening and health and safety.  They didn't answer

any straight questions I asked in relation to the above.

 

In all honesty I think the Coronavirus situation will cripple the cruise industry

because of the protocols and as people cancel their cruises in droves.

 

The Carnival share price has already plummeted and I predict will be decimated further