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On 8/25/2024 at 6:07 AM, msled said:

Does anyone know if there is transportation that can be used to get back from there to the cruise terminal?  Will there be taxis there, etc?

Possibly taxis as it is the start / end of the walk, but if not you could walk to the Garrison Gym bus stop and get the number 2 back - Bus Network Map | Gibraltar Bus Company

If you are using Google then all the bus routes and times are shown on there.

21 hours ago, Jonb_chi said:

Has anyone found out what happens if your trip crosses over the EES activation?

We fly USA to Greece before EES, cruise RT, depart Greece after EES (one of us actually leaves day of EES). 

Will the exit procedure be an EES catch up process to digitize my entry stamp? Or just a simple non-EES exit stamp?

The guidance for airports on the introduction of EES says - 

During a 180-day transition period, the competent border authorities will check the stamps in the travel documents, in addition to the entry-exit data recorded in the EES. In case of a discrepancy, the stamp will prevail (Art. 22 of the Regulation).

On 8/27/2024 at 10:03 PM, Lois2409 said:

Thank you for your advice and guidance. In relation to the EES, please can you advise if I fly into Barcelona to embark a cruise ship, my passport will be electronically read as entering the EU and Day 1 will begin of my 90 days out of the rolling 180. If I debark in a UK port or non-EU country not part of the Schengen zone, how do the EU know I have left the EU?  I understand if I fly back from an EU country, my exit from the EU will be recorded at the airport when I leave but if I debark in Southampton or another UK port or fly back from Turkey for example that is not part of the EU, how do they know I have exited the EU? Thank you

Once EES is in operation then yes your entry (and the start of the count of 90/180) will be recorded when you fly into Barcelona.

When you leave on your cruise from Barcelona the EU border guard manual says - 

where a cruise ship departs from a port situated in a Schengen State to a port situated outside the area without internal border control, crew and passengers must be subject to exit checks on the basis of the nominal lists of crew and passengers. If an assessment of the risks related to security and illegal immigration so requires, passengers going on board must be subject to exit checks in accordance with general rules

So the situation is pretty much as now when your passport wouldn't be stamped when you left on the cruise ship to a non-Schengen country - the cruise line will send a list of passengers and their passport details to the authorities and the authorities will perform their checks on those details and in the future should enter those details onto EES.

But if you are concerned that your exit has not been recorded correctly, EES will have a web page where individuals can access their travel information so you can see whether you have been shown as leaving correctly, and undoubtably (as now when passports are not stamped in some circumstances) there is a process that allows you to provide evidence to show that you had left on a specific date (cruise tickets, etc.) and had not broken the 90/180 rule, and then when EES is in place the database could be updated with that information.

21 hours ago, euro cruiser said:

and making smart choices

The smart choice is to leave it secure back on the ship or in the hotel, and not needlessly take it with you.

21 hours ago, euro cruiser said:

I'm in the camp of those who always carry my passport with me

And how often have you been stoped by the police demanding to see it? Never...

4 hours ago, Snow Hill said:

He then paged through both our passports very slowly

Yes, to check for stamps to ensure neither of you had not overstayed - as is their job.

On 8/25/2024 at 3:49 PM, edinburgher said:

but I THINK the "free for over 70s"    has perhaps or perhaps not, yet to be clarified as to whether payment is exempt from age 70 or whether it is exempt only from age 71 upwards

The EU regulation on ETIAS is Regulation 2018/1240 Regulation - 2018/1240 - EN - EUR-Lex (europa.eu) and it says - 

The travel authorisation fee shall be waived for applicants under 18 years or above 70 years of age at the time of the application.

If you applied the day after your 70th birthday then you would be above 70 years old at that time, but irrespective of that, undoubtably the system which you will need to apply through will determine whether a fee is payable or not.

On 8/26/2024 at 8:24 PM, euro cruiser said:

Lots of folks here, as well as on the Trip Advisor forums, will tell you that they never carry their passports while out and about.

 

It's a personal judgemental call, weighing the risks of being caught without the passport when stopped or the risk of losing your passport vs. the costs of being detained (time and/or money) by police or the costs of replacing a lost passport. 

 

Many, many visitors to Italy don't know or care about the law and haven't for years.  The odds of being stopped, or in an accident (another time when a passport would be important) are very low, so it's a reasonable conclusion to take the risk for lots of visitors. 

It certainly is a personal judgement, and my judgement based on the many many times I have visited Italy (and lots of other European countries) over many decades is that it would be utter madness to carry your original passport.

The very real risk of loss or theft far outweighs a very very theoretical possibility of it being demanded to be seen by the police, and any significant action if you didn't have it.

The only time I have seen the inside of a police station in Italy was after being pickpocketed, and as the officer I was dealing with commented, fortunately the only thing taken was an insured mobile phone and not a passport or anything else.

The only exception to my 'don't take it with you rule' is when driving, and then the risk flips over and it would be far too risky not to have all your documents on you then.

Just now, kalos said:

I was getting confused with various things the press and others had written but I think it's clearer now

Yes, the press especially do seem to be wanting to be 'chicken little' about this, but then they do whenever it snows or the wind blows or...

2 minutes ago, kalos said:

The way I see it now is ,the ETIAS is a visa waiver system ,that does exactly what it

says on the tin .

Pretty much - and that you will need one if you are on a cruise with a stop in the Schengen Area when it eventually comes in but you will have loads of notice to apply.

4 minutes ago, kalos said:

The EES (entry exit system )  is just a tracker that is put onto my bio metric passport

that holds info ,finger prints etc, once taken for the first time at an air/port . After 

that for the next few years I can go anywhere within Europe and just show my 

passport at border control , no need for stamps/visa's just like when we were in the EU.

Yep, and it should be quicker for most people as there will be no stamps and the border guard flicking through the passport to look at those stamps, and when exiting to put the stamp on the same page as the entry.

It also opens the theoretical possibility that non-EU travellers will be allowed to use the automatic gates again when there is no need to 'wet stamp'.

However the issue for some is that if you were playing 'fast and loose' with the 90/180 rule because you knew the border guard likely didn't have the time to look at all the stamps in the passport then they will be caught out by the new system.

8 minutes ago, kalos said:

The possible problem is getting it all set up onto folks passports 10 Nov onwards ? 

Yes, but other than at Dover and St Pancras the queues will at the Schengen Area airport and I doubt those airports want to disrupt flights because the airport is too full of queuing passengers - and then once done it is done for years.

However undoubtably the press will have a field day with 'look at all these awful queues' in November. 

6 hours ago, Tsunami74 said:

Do you think we would need to obtain the EES to just fly through the airport?

To be pedantic you don't obtain EES, but your entry onto the EES is simply done to you when you present yourself to the border guard in the passport queue when you arrive into the Schengen Area for the first time, with the border guard taking your fingerprints and photo.

I make this distinction because the other system that is due to come in next year is ETIAS where you do have to obtain it in advance of presenting yourself to the border guard in the passport queue.

1 hour ago, Snow Hill said:

It would appear not, this from IcelandAir website, EES process would only apply if you entered Iceland.

Is undoubtably the correct answer - if you don't go through passport control into Iceland and stay in the transit area then you don't get put onto EES because it is the border guard at passport control who has to do that.

However if your flights are that tight then I hope they are booked as a connecting flight and it is the airline's responsibility if you don't make it, but even so I hope you are arriving in the UK the day before your cruise because even if the airline puts you on the next day's flight...

24 minutes ago, purplesea said:

Two facts that I didn't know.

My OH is an EU citizen with an EU passport but I hold a British passport. I wonder how is it going to work going through passport control?

And two very useful facts!

As someone with dual UK and EU citizenship my wife simply accompanies me in the EU passport queue when I travel with my EU passport because thats what the EU law says she can do

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:32016R0399 relevant extracts with my bolding - 

(16) In order to reduce the waiting times of persons enjoying the Union right of free movement, separate lanes, indicated by uniform signs in all Member States, should, where circumstances allow, be provided at border crossing points. Separate lanes should be provided in international airports. Where it is deemed appropriate and if local circumstances so allow, Member States should consider installing separate lanes at sea and land border crossing points.

and in the Art 2 Definitions

5. ‘persons enjoying the right of free movement under Union law’ means:

(a) Union citizens within the meaning of Article 20(1) TFEU, and third-country nationals who are members of the family of a Union citizen exercising his or her right to free movement to whom Directive 2004/38/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council (21) applies;

On 8/23/2024 at 12:08 PM, Norwayfan1 said:

Can anyone tell me how much a 'nominal charge' might typically be?

It is around £15 per class and you can buy a pass that will cover you for all the classes on the cruise that does give a slight discount if you actually went to all of them - and at that price it doesn't compare too badly to the price you would pay for a class onshore.

There is usually a 'stretch' class around 5.30pm or so that is free of charge.

From when I have used the gym the classes seem to be reasonably well attended, but I cannot attest to their quality as I just use the gym equipment.

The gym itself is free of charge and is pretty well equipped with a good number of running and rowing machines for cardio, a good variety of weight machines, plus a reasonable selection of free weights.

Just now, cruising.mark.uk said:

Thank you.  That is the clearest and most comprehensive explanation I've seen anywhere.

Happy to help, as there seems to be a lot of confusion on the subject - not just here but in the media generally.

1 minute ago, cruising.mark.uk said:

am I correct in thinking that it is the EES that has the requirement for photos and biometric data collection attached and that, in line with your explanation, those are not therefore going to have any impact on Southampton to Southampton cruise passengers?

Absolutely correct.

EES biometric data can only be captured by an EU border guard, so nothing could be done at Southampton whatever happened.

And as the purpose of EES is to know who is in the Schengen Area then if you failed to get back on board then your details would be passed to the authorities on shore so they would know then - plus when you tried to leave the Schengen Area to return back to the UK after failing to get back on board you would be caught by the exit checks not seeing you arrive.

EES really isn't going to be an issue, other than for queues at Schengen airport passport / ferry port / Eurotunnel control for the first year as people are scanned onto the system.

It is ETIAS that is going to be an issue, particularly for the over 70s (or those with children) where there is highly likely to be misunderstandings that no fee does not mean no requirement to have an ETIAS - or other variations, such as "well I never get off the ship so why do I need one", etc.

On 8/25/2024 at 2:09 PM, kalos said:

I have noted that Europe will be starting the EES (Entry and Exit  System) 

That means UK resident folk will need a €6 for a 3 year visa ? 

To start with you are confusing EES and ETIAS, which are two different systems.

Firstly EES (Entry Exit System), this has an announced start date of the 10th November 2024 and there is no charge for it.

With EES, if you are a non-EU citizen then on your first entry to the Schengen Area your fingerprints and a photo will be taken by the border guards at the Schengen Area airport or at Dover (etc.) or St Pancras.

The purpose of EES is to monitor the time spent in the Schengen Area and to ensure that the 90/180 day rule is correctly enforced, plus removing the need to 'wet stamp' passports.

Unlike now, the border guard won't need to try to look at all the stamps in the passport to try to calculate how long someone has spent in the Schengen Area, the system will simply tell them when they put the passport in the scanner.

Individuals will have access to a website so they can see how long they have spent in the Schengen Area and how long they have left in the current rolling 180 day period so they don't inadvertently break the rules.

EES is also designed to work with family members of EU citizens and ensure that they time they spend in the Schengen Area with their EU family member does not count towards the 90 day limit (it does if they are there on their own).

Turning to the impact of EES for cruise passengers (not ETIAS which is covered below)

For round trip cruises starting and ending at non-Schengen ports, e.g. a cruise starting and ending at Southampton, then EES will not be required at port stops in Schengen countries - exactly the same as you don't have to go through passport control now - cruises are a low risk for the Schengen Area because you are scanned on and off the ship and the ship has to report if you have not got back onboard.

For cruises starting at a non-Schengen port and ending at a Schengen port, e.g. a repositioning cruise from Southampton to Barcelona, then EES will be required at Barcelona, because you have simply used a cruise ship as a method of transport from A to B.

For cruises starting at a Schengen port then EES will be required but that will be at the airport you fly into (or whatever other means you take to get to that Schengen country.

Thus for any P&O passengers doing Southampton to Southampton cruises then they will not be troubled by EES.

Now for ETIAS (European Travel Information and Authorisation System) which does not have an announced start date.

ETIAS is a 'travel authorisation' and although it isn't a visa or a visa waiver it has pretty much the same effect - you don't have one then you are not getting in!

The purpose of ETIAS is so the Schengen Area countries have some control on the type of people entering with a passport as the ETIAS application contains details on your background, employment, criminal convictions etc. 

Once in operation then non-EU citizens will need to apply before they travel to the Schengen Area and it has a cost of 7 euros unless you are under 18, over 70, or a family member of an EU citizen.

There is no announced start date for ETIAS but the indications are - 

- You will be able to apply from May 2025 for an ETIAS but importantly there will be no requirement to have one for another six months, likely to be up to November 2025.

- From November 2025 you will be required to have an ETIAS but you will be allowed into the Schengen Area once and once only provided everything else is OK, and this state will last for six months up to May 2026.

- From May 2026 you will be required to have an ETIAS and there will be no allowance if you don't.

But as before, all those dates are not certain yet and may yet move.

Turning to the impact of ETIAS for cruise passengers (not EES which is covered above)

For round trip cruises starting and ending at non-Schengen ports, e.g. a cruise starting and ending at Southampton, then an ETIAS will be required if the ship has port stops in Schengen countries.

For cruises starting at a non-Schengen port and ending at a Schengen port, e.g. a repositioning cruise from Southampton to Barcelona, then an ETIAS will be required.

For cruises starting at a Schengen port then an ETIAS will be required but that will be at the airport you fly into (or whatever other means you take to get to that Schengen country.

Thus for any P&O passengers doing Southampton to Southampton cruises then they will need an ETIAS if there are any Schengen Area port stops.

In summary, EES will make no difference to almost anyone using P&O, because either it will not apply (Southampton to Southampton) or it will be dealt with at the airport on a fly cruise into Malta or Tenerife.

However ETIAS will make a difference and look out for 'sad faced posts' from people denied boarding at Southampton or denied boarding an aircraft for a fly-cruise, when the firm requirement kicks in.

And lastly, for those who are fortunate enough to be EU citizens (or dual UK and EU) then neither EES or ETIAS will trouble you if you travel on your EU passport - and importantly, it doesn't matter if you are an Irish citizen as Ireland is a non-Schengen country due to the 'common travel area' with the UK, the same is true and EES and ETIAS is irrelevant.

Plus your non-EU spouse (and children under age 21), although they will need to do EES and do ETIAS (unless they have residency in a Schengen Area country) can go with you through the EU passport controls and as mentioned above are not limited to the 90 days if you are somewhere in the Schengen Area (it doesn't need to be the same country) at the same time.

Confused - I am not surprised!

3 minutes ago, SusieV said:

 

I'm sorry, I literally have no idea- I don't mean to be difficult. I have an iPhone 13.

Yes an iPhone 13 takes eSIMS.

With these apps such as Airalo (there are many) you simply download the app form the Apple App store, open the app, select which location you are in, how much data you want, and for how long, pay for it and it installs an eSIM and then you then need to select that eSIM from the normal sim that is in the phone.

It is easier than buying a physical SIM provided that you are familiar with installing apps and selecting an eSIM.

4 minutes ago, SusieV said:

but I'm sure I'll need at least internet access while I'm toodling about.

If you have a phone that takes eSIMs then just look at one of those providers that can add an eSIM from an app, providers such as Airalo.

Nearest to the cruise terminal about 500m is Europcar but they don't open at the weekend if that is when you are going to be there.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/RhHrrpqpAkjxuk7S8 

Alternatively 15 minutes in a taxi will get you to the airport where you will have load of choice.

And just a caution, driving in Portugal and especially Lisbon can be 'interesting'.

You can, but I wouldn't.

It doesn't make sense spending lots of money on a cruise and then wanting to walk some distance carrying luggage to save £10 on a taxi.

2 hours ago, Hlitner said:

There are more questions, about ETIAS, then answers :(.

You are not wrong there!

2 hours ago, Hlitner said:

The usual Schengen rule about spending no more than 90 days (out of 180) in the Schengen zone will still apply.

Yes, and that will be enforced from November by EES, not ETIAS which is about who is coming in, whereas EES is about how long they are staying.

And there have been a lot of people playing fast and loose with the 90/180 rule, knowing that it is difficult and time consuming for the border guards to check all the stamps in the passport, but from November it will be put the passport in the machine and if the machine goes red because you have overstayed and that isn't going to be waived away by the border guard.

2 hours ago, Hlitner said:

As to when ETIAS really takes effect, I am starting to think it will not be in my lifetime.

Unless you are planning on shuffling off before November 2025... (and I certainly hope not!).

But they do now seem to be on the home run to actually get it up and running.

3 hours ago, IndyKid said:

The cruise is aboard the Sun Princess May 3 - 10, and I understand that we will need to get a ETIAS for Italy & Greece, but nothing for Turkey

ETIAS will apply to the Schengen area which is all the EU member states* other than Ireland and (currently) Cyprus, plus Iceland, Norway, Switzerland, and Liechtenstein, and a single approval applies to all of them and lasts for three years or the expiry of your passport.

Turkey isn't in the EU so ETIAS is not relevant to them.

And importantly the ETIAS (and the separate EES which is starting in November) is checked at the entry to the Schengen area so it will be checked when you fly into Rome and not again after that.

For completeness, EES is the Entry Exit System where you will have to provide fingerprints and have a photo taken, and your movement in and out of the Schengen area is recorded on a single computer system and does away with the need to 'wet stamp' passports.

The dates for ETIAS have not been finalised yet, with the start date having been constantly pushed back for many years, but the current position appears to be - 

From May 2025 you can apply for an ETIAS, but importantly it won't be needed.

Then six months later from November 2025 they will be checked, but importantly if you don't have one then provided everything else is fine then you will be allowed in once, and only once.

Then six months later from May 2026 thats when the hard 'not coming in without one' kicks in.

But currently nothing is absolutely certain.

*for those who can't name the 27 EU states, they are Belgium, Bulgaria, Czechia, Denmark, Germany, Estonia, Ireland, Greece, Spain, France, Croatia, Italy, Cyprus, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Hungary, Malta, the Netherlands, Austria, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovenia, Slovakia, Finland and Sweden.

1 hour ago, Planning to cruise said:

I havent checked but there is surely a UK Government web site on this setting out the official requirements.  That will be more definite than varying views of CC posters.  

A better bet would be an EU website than a UK government website which has nothing whatsoever to do with EES and ETIAS...

EES - European Union (europa.eu)

ETIAS - European Union (europa.eu)

And good luck getting answers to the questions that people are asking from those official websites.

3 hours ago, Bob7 said:

Hey Strob, thx so much for this info, sometimes the excursion desks don't even know where the shuttle dropoffs are. On Streetview I see a row of coaches across from the Cathedrale La Major that must be the shuttle stop, and just past it the local bus stop for routes 49 and 82 going into Vieux Port. It's about a third of a mile (0.5Km) from the shuttle stop to the Vieux Port waterfront west end so not "in town" as you note, but not a bad walk, did you do that?  We're catching the M1 at the other end of the waterfront so probably try for the bus to save time.

Most of the cruise ship shuttle buses drop off behind the fence in in the area facing the cathedral the https://maps.app.goo.gl/Q3Wb9ZgFrYkarVbp8

It isn't a bad place to be dropped off if you want to do a self guided walk up to the cathedral and then up through the old town before dropping back into the new town around the Vieux Port.

And from the street outside the shuttle stop to the M1 metro at Vieux Port isn't 0.5km but 1.9km - a good 30 minute walk.

2 minutes ago, Dutch_Travelgirl said:

Do you need an example for every single country in the Schengen Zone? 

I suspect they (and many many others) do...

For those who don't know, the Schengen area comprises all the EU member states other than Ireland and Cyprus (Ireland can't become part of Schengen because of the common travel arrangement with the UK and Cyprus is going through the steps to join) plus the four non-EU countries of Iceland, Norway, Switzerland and Liechtenstein.

10 hours ago, Cotswold Eagle said:

- from November, photo and fingerprints will be collected on first crossing of the external Schengen border (valid for three years thereafter)

That is the case if you fly/train/ferry into a Schengen country from a non-Schengen country, for example to start your cruise, or you are on a 'one way' repositioning cruise that starts in a non-Schengen country and ends in a Schengen country.

However it does not apply if you are on a cruise ship starting and ending from a non-Schengen port, with Schengen countries as port stops, when a registration for EES is not required, so those sailing out of and back to the UK will not be troubled by EES.

So for example, fly into Barcelona from the UK/US to start your roundtrip cruise from there and you will do EES, but sail from and back to the UK with Barcelona as a port stop and you won't do EES, but sail from the UK with a cruise ending in Barcelona and you will do EES. 

Confused yet!

10 hours ago, Cotswold Eagle said:

- from May, non-visa nationals (including most UK and US citizens) must apply for an ETIAS before travel to the Schengen area

For the first six months from May 2025 it will be a “transitional period” where those travelling are expected to have applied for the waiver, but if they have not they will not automatically be refused entry at the border if they fulfil the other entry conditions.

And the important thing to realise, is that although those under 18 or over 70 (or those with a spouse with EU or other Schengen country citizenship) don't pay the 7 euro application fee, they still need to have applied and received the ETIAS authorisation.

On 8/17/2024 at 11:57 AM, david63 said:

Thanks - I don't suppose you remember how much it was do you?

Around £50 or so for both of us, and as a taxi is a fixed price of 39€ then the small difference in price was well worth it.

Shuttle bus will be down you your ship and whatever RCI charge, and most likely will be added to your cabin bill.

Cable car is 12,50€ one way and they do take cards. Queue - lots of factors, such as time of day, weather, time of year, how many cruise ships in, etc. and when I have walked past the queue has either been non-existent or around the building.

The Monte gardens are 15€, and they take cards.

The bus is 1,95€ if you pay on the bus (its less if you buy a ticket before boarding) and it is in cash as they don't take cards (other than their own pre-paid cards) but they do give change - although don't expect change from a 50€ note!

There is no entrance fee for the cathedral but there is a 4€ charge if you want an audio guide (in various languages) - the cathedral at Christmas -