30 minutes ago, Sticks5315 said:

Some posters are indicating Celebrity told them it would be 30 business days! Isn’t every day a business day for the cruise companies. They will take your money (new reservations/cruise payments/shore excursion bookings)everyday. They normally Cruise everyday. This 30 business day timeline is another diversion. In the cruise industry every day is a business day. 

LOVE your post!!! Also, credit card companies don't have business days. I always get

charged buying groceries on Saturday/Sunday and it appears on my credit card even

before I get home with the shopping. This is again one of their creative, made up excuses,

that they try to convince us to stall their release of our $$.

47 minutes ago, BigAl94 said:

My opinion and advice wont be welcome however

1. The lack of income and continuing overheads are unsustainable. Government assistance will not be forthcoming due to ports of registration etc.

2. Many cruise lines will file for bankruptcy in the coming weeks.

3.  FCC's, deposits and payments will vanish as unsecured creditors

4.  Grab a refund if at all possible

5.  If you can afford to lose deposits and payments, carry on, otherwise do nothing.

You forgot to add:

100 day ban on cruises (CDC). This may be a the game changer.

24 minutes ago, BigAl94 said:

My opinion and advice wont be welcome however

1. The lack of income and continuing overheads are unsustainable. Government assistance will not be forthcoming due to ports of registration etc.

2. Many cruise lines will file for bankruptcy in the coming weeks.

3.  FCC's, deposits and payments will vanish as unsecured creditors

4.  Grab a refund if at all possible

5.  If you can afford to lose deposits and payments, carry on, otherwise do nothing.

TOTALLY agree with you.

Many cannot understand what's going on.

37 minutes ago, omeinv said:

I'm coming up on thirty days since my March 15 cruise was cancelled, and I requested a refund on March 16.  As much as I understand everyone's concern, I'm truly not worried, and won't be pursuing a credit card dispute unless things get much more lengthy. 

 

I figure, during normal times, maybe 1% of bookings require some type of refund or adjustment requiring manual intervention (as opposed to a purchase which can either be completely automated, or - if done by phone - all entries made at the time).  Suddenly Celebrity is in a position where 100% of bookings require auditing, and either a total cash refund, or a partial cash refund (for taxes fees and extras) and a Future Cruise Credit for cruise fare.  The idea that all employees could be reassigned to this function sounds appealing, but likely is impractical, since it would require training during a period when most staff are working off-site, and it's not the time for new people to figure it out as they go without on-site supervision. 

 

When I've had refunds from Celebrity during normal times, they've run about 10 days to 2 weeks.  I've also learned that once the refund shows as processed in their system, there's about 1 week's lag before it gets to my account.  I assume this is something in the accounting process at Celebrity, rather than a delay with my credit card, based upon how other merchant's refunds process.  Again this makes sense since the nature of cruise bookings would require a person to review and reconcile it, as opposed to say a return to Amazon, which is completely automated.  During normal times, in my experience, the exception to this timeline has been something like an online purchased shore excursion that I've cancelled.  Those transactions refund much like a return to a store; that is to say in a few days.  This makes sense since they're completely automated purchases. 

 

I completely understand that many want to initiate disputes with their credit card firms, and thus hasten the return of their funds to their account.  And this would make particular sense if a billing statement was closing, and you were going to incur finance charges on an amount that you knew will be refunded.  But the idea that the dispute is what has hastened Celebrity to act - as noted by a few posters above - is inviting, but almost certainly coincidental.  When you file a dispute, the credit card company takes quite sometime to move their process, and it's certainly not an overnight event.  Instead you'll now get letters from your credit card company indicating that when they investigated, they found the refund you'd inquired about has been made, so they're closing the dispute. 

 

Harris

Denver, CO

 

 

 

 

Hi,

Sounds like you are apologizing for how Celebrity is dealing with refunds.

They are giving many people various excuses and several different ways

of stalling. Refunds should NOT take this long. They can take our money

and have it appear on our credit card in seconds. One person posted

"we do not work in the Flintstone age". Computers are fast and credit card

companies can handle millions of transactions. How can they give me

a Taxes and Fees refund but NOT refund the cruise. Explain that to me? Any

creative excuses that you could share??? The information is all on their

computer screen. It's been checked and approved. Why not press another

key and give me the big bucks (cruise refund). Only would take a second.

Not an addition long waiting period. We are all worried that we will not

ever see our refunds if they stall any longer. They are in rough times, BUT

so are we!

On 4/6/2020 at 9:42 PM, Got Out There said:

One thing you can’t speculate is when the cash runs out then something has to give. Not sure what the cruise lines cash burn rate are, but whatever it is it is not sustainable.  I guarantee beyond what has been in the press with regards to cash infusions (credit or otherwise)....there are a small group of top executives at each line that are searching for all options to survive.   And yes I do believe they are or will be fighting for their survival.  

No refunds is a good is evidence for their survival.

15 hours ago, soloadventurer said:

After the CDC news SELL SELL SELL bank the profits  - Rcl & Col will be haemorrhaging money in refunds   

They won't be haemorrhaging money in refunds.

They aren't giving any refunds. Read the boards!!

30 minutes ago, 1SGCruiser said:

 

Thanks!

 

We absolutely love traveling in general - and specifically cruising too.  Since I semi-retired in 2015 and fully retired on 2017, we've tried to travel on an extended trip as often as possible.  While visiting Europe - normally during October and November (cooler, pretty and less crowds), we move to a new city every 2-3 days. We then do extensive exploring of that city and surrounding area on day-trips.  We travel exclusively by train on a Eurail pass for maximum flexibility.  We love getting 'lost' while exploring.  Our trips are normally 3-6 weeks and normally include a transatlantic back to the US.  We travel light  with just one carry-on suitcase each and we do laundry once a week.  For us, it's the best way to travel.  The cruise home at the end is very enjoyable and relaxing after moving so much during the land portion. 

 

We still hope to do the land portion this year and look forward to cruising again when this all settles down.

Hi,

Amazing. We do the exactly the same including B2B's and TA's or TP's  with extensive

land trips before or after the B2B. We have also done a B2B2B2B2B. No hotels

in between and used Cunard for the TA's. LOVED it!

Also, one carry on suitcase and BIG handbag.

The only difference is that we do this twice a year (spring and the fall). 

Less crowds during these times and it's too beautiful here (NS Canada) 

during the summer.

23 minutes ago, hcat said:

Over my head beyond the first para..but I tried. As they  say nowadays, not my lane.  leave it to the experts

 

So is it  good or bad for reaching a treatment or a vaccine.?

Hi,

The paper was important to show the level of mutations and the global migration of

the virus. It also provides more evidence that the virus originated in bats. However

whether these mutations affect vaccine development is too early to tell. I was more

excited about the use of passive immunization (also in PNAS). Preliminary results

in China https://doi.org/10.1073/pnas.2004168117 show promise. Very preliminary studies 

reported in USA (reported in CNN) also show hope.  These preliminary results

indicate that humans can raise antibodies to the virus that can be used in others to eliminate the  virus and cure the patient. This indicates that a vaccine should work.

Other older data indicates that there are less mutations (changes) in coronavirus

than in influenza.

Even if they have a cocktail of COVID-19 types it wouldn't be a problem.

Many newer vaccines are a blend. I am not an expert in virology. However, in a previous life, I was a immunologist, molecular biologist, university full professor and involved

in vaccine development. I also published evolutionary papers including one in PNAS.

13 minutes ago, downsmead said:

Thank you, my link works ok for me 🤷‍♀️

Hi,

Sorry. You must have a different type of computer, browser, internet in the UK??

I press it and get an HIV paper.

Did you click my link?

23 minutes ago, downsmead said:

There is a good article in PNAS, including a phylogenetic tree showing the spread and also detailing the type of mutations (synonomous v non- synonomous). 
https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2020/04/08/1916054117

Your link is ?

Try https://doi.org/10.1073/pnas.2004999117

12 minutes ago, Bo1953 said:

The sky is not falling, it is just that the clouds are very, very, very slow moving...

 

Many others are/were expecting refunds to be instantaneous and they are not, unfortunately.

 

Please indicate which 'options' you were provided towards either a FULL refund or partial or ????

 

Was this before X cancelled or did you jump the gun?

 

bon voyage

Hi,

For the two in April, I waited till Celebrity cancelled. Asked for 100% refund.

Got taxes and fees for the first one after 3 weeks. Nothing for the second. 

For the 3 in the fall, I cancelled. I only had NRD paid on those 3. I did

NOT want to lose more money by paying a huge amount under the

assumption that they will cancel and would give me 100% refund. I don't

gamble. However, even though I lost the NRD (probably get an FCC if

they are still around) I had to pay my travel agent $100 US ($150 CDN) to

cancel each cruise ($300). This is MY fault- next time I'll read the fine print!!

29 minutes ago, phoenix_dream said:

I would not expect cruise lines to begin cancelling cruises yet in those next 100 days as they will hang their hat on the technicality that 100 days is the worst of the 3 scenarios.  We have a cruise planned on July 26 to Alaska.  I can't see it happening, but I also can't imagine the cruise line cancelling it until/if they absolutely have to (and for the record, that is beyond the 100 day timeframe anyway).  I really wish they would as I really want a refund at this point in time - already have some FCC from two other cancelled cruises and prices next year are ridiculous.  We also have two more cruises later this year, and two in early January.  Have had 3 cancelled so far this year already.  We picked a great year to book the most cruises we've ever planned!  

Hi,

We are in the same boat (sorry for the pun). We booked 5 this year (two paid in

full and cancelled by the cruise line) and 3 for the fall (only NRD). All excellent places to go and see.We were excited but now are depressed since we may never see our money again. 

Bill

24 minutes ago, General's Lady said:

Until there is universal testing, we are all guessing.  And as far as cruising in Europe, how does one propose to do that without flying there.  Luftansa has grounded all their huge planes permanently since the company feels airplane traffic will decrease significantly.  We live in New York in the epicenter of this and right now on Long Island which is the newest hot spot.  American currently has just three departures daily.  Delta has grounded 95% of their fleet.  We are a long, long, way from getting out of this.  Just my take on this.  Had our transatlantic cruise scheduled for April 17 cancelled.  We asked for refund.  So far nothing not even an acknowledgement once we indicated we wanted our money back.  We have been in our home for over 5 weeks now.  Once things resume it will be like 9/11, not carefree and lots of checking of people coming in and going out of the country.  Don't mean to be a downer,  just realistic and pragmatic.  We have cruised many lines and over 30 to different places.  We enjoyed them all but are readjusting any and all expectations.  Stay well everyone and stay home.

Hi,

We were suppose to be on that same cruise (TA to Southampton).

No acknowledgement (no one got one) for the online form. They don't want

a paper trail that you can use to try to ever get you money refunded.

They are also coming up with creative excuses to not refund anyone (ever).

Only people who have complained to the credit card companies got refunded.

They are in survive mode and cash refunds are not their concern. Probably

not enough cruisers took the IOU's (FCC). My opinion, but I see many posts with

the same outlook. Can you tell I'm upset??

Bill

things don't look better. 

On 4/5/2020 at 9:45 PM, Charles4515 said:

 

I agree wait it out for Celebrity to cancel and get a refund. The FCC is a gamble. Shortly we will probably see the ships put in cold layup or mothball status. Sailing around in circles is burning up money.


Sent from my iPhone using Forums

 

Presently getting the cash refund is also a gamble. HUGE stalling and a multitude

of excuses for not giving refunds. More stalling = longer they can stay afloat.

30 minutes ago, hcat said:

Nothing yet back on card today  for the APEX cancellation. Seems one person initiates the cancellation, another calculates the segmented amts and another issues  refunds? No idea?

 

This is a $500 dep  refund and even that is supposed to arrive in segmented amounts.

 

We also cancelled a Connie Cruise for 2022.   It was a standard price for AQ class with good perks,   but we saw no reason to  let $900 sit with Celebrity for such a long time esp for a ship that may not  get the updates.

 

Once that goes through, we will have just one booked ...sad!

Hi,

Seems like they have a whole team (whole department) coming up with creative

excuses not to give anyone their money back. They are thinking hard on how to

stall refunds. However, soon we will all stop worrying about refunds. They won't

be around to give any. Some have said that most travel insurances won't cover 

this event. I'm not sure if this is true??? 

55 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

Any vaccine with some decent efficacy will be incredibly valuable.  If a partially effective vaccine could reduce the number of hospitalizations substantially, I agree with you that it could be a game changer. 

 

This season's (2019-20 northern hemisphere) influenza vaccine has about 45% efficacy if you look at the CDC data here:

 https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6907a1.htm

 

Without getting too technical, the most widely used Influenza vaccine in not live and is generally derived from components of the predicted circulating A and B strains.  Influenza still changes and other strains could be circulating regionally so the vaccine is partially effective in that sense.  But still highly recommended.  It still saves lives.

There is also a live attenuated influenza vaccine administered by nasal spray called FluMist.  There are other successful live attenuated vaccines against common viruses too like MMR and varicella.  For SARS-CoV-2 it is not currently known whether a subunit /non-live vaccine approach against it's surface proteins (spikes) will be effective.  Or possibly a live attenuated approach, or a genetic vector approach.   A lot to be done.  We do not know if SARS-CoV-2 has mutated substantially enough in its circulation this year to get around contemplated vaccine approaches.  But the genome data is being actively collected and analyzed from patients in different parts of the world.  It is critical data.  It will guide vaccine approaches.

 

 

 

Hi,

Several studies that have compared SARS-CoV-2 mutations indicate that the rate is

lower than that of influenza. They are optimistic for a vaccine approach.

Hi,

RCL cannot cancel the year. They don't have the funds. They can barely refund

cruisers for cancelled cruises in March 2020. Look at the boards for refunds!!

They are coming up with various creative reasons for not cash refunding. They also

do not want all the issued IOU's (FCC) to be worthless. They recently

got a influx of funding but as far as I can tell it will be used to keep them going

and not for cash refunds. This is my opinion and it may be hopefully wrong. 

8 minutes ago, Ontario Cruiser said:

Just received our refund for Infinity Apr 25th cruise except the cruiseline air but it is on the way.

I will let you know when I receive it.

OntarioCruiser

Hi,

Was that FCC? 100% cash? 25% ? 75% ? Other combinations?

Reading or figuring out what people got is sometimes hard to understand.

Did you have to dispute charges with your credit card (like others)?

Did you cancel or your TA? Or did you do the form online?

Sorry for all the questions.

Thanks!!

Bill

25 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

Back to vaccines for a minute.  As I have discussed here previously I have spent a good part of my R&D career in this area.  I will give you a few of my personal thoughts.  If you want to ignore me that is OK and just move on.  This is however a thread started about reality of the situation we all face.

 

Everybody in the world right now hopes for a 100% effective vaccine against SARS-CoV-2 virus.  I certainly share that hope.  There is lot of activity on this front right now and some early candidate vaccines.  But there is no assurance of success unfortunately. 

 

A few issues, and thoughts:

1) There are quite a few viral pathogens with no effective vaccine - despite years and years of effort. (HIV, Lyme, West Nile, Zika, HepC, Rhinoviruses (common cold), other coronaviruses including other SARS viruses. Many others.  What about Norovirus?  No vaccine. See https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/19/health/vaccines-poverty.html

2) In particular, look into a similar RNA-virus pathogen called RSV - Respiratory Syncytial Virus which is spread by respiratory droplets like SARS-CoV-2 and influenza virus, and it and is deadly particularly in infants, the young and the elderly.  Years of effort but no vaccine. https://www.cdc.gov/rsv/index.html

3) It will be an enormous effort to develop, manufacture and test vaccine candidates for SARS-CoV-2.  Well worth the focus but it will take a lot of time to do this no matter what. No effective candidates yet but early days. 

4) If a successful candidate vaccine is selected, it will be a global effort to manufacture it and distribute it and administer it and it will be very costly to do so.  Despite philanthropy, some countries will not afford it or get full access.

5) The new vaccine will be limited.  It will be used worldwide on a prioritized basis to prevent the spread of new cases.  It will be used for the immune-compromised of all ages, the elderly at highest risk, healthcare workers, etc.

6) Prospective luxury cruise passengers will not be a high priority.  Perhaps it will become a travel vaccine years from now.

 

Final thought- A good anti-viral drug for fighting COVID-19 disease might also be the key so let's not overlook that too.  Possibly an easier initial path than a vaccine. There is no HIV vaccine but pretty effective HIV drugs these days.  And the same goes for Hepatitus C.

 

 

Hi,

I TOTALLY agree with your comments. 

I am retired but in my previous life I was a molecular immunologist, university full professor and in my spare time I was involved in making vaccines at the commercial level. 

Another treatment is passive immunity (using serum/plasma) from patients that survived

a COVID-19 infection. On CNN today, there may? be hope that this type of treatment

could be used on critical patients. Early results look promising. Some treatments with

chemical antivirals also look promising but require further testing and approval.

A partial response with vaccines/antivirals/passive antibodies that may not prevent the disease BUT they may prevent death (which is more important). Some speculate that

certain people (all ages) have issues due to their immune system goes into overdrive (cytokine storm) and die from this. Treating the overactive immune system may help?

As for vaccines, some speculate that even if the yearly flu vaccine is the wrong type, it may offer some immunity to other types. Anything that shows promise is being tested and

hopefully something will work!

Hi Argo,

As a fellow Canadian, you may find this article of interest:

Cash-strapped Royal Caribbean draws down its revolving credit lines as coronavirus pandemic tests the cruise industry

One of the credit lines is from ScotiaBank!!

To read it do a copy and paste. It's from CNBC and likely not "fake news"

30 minutes ago, Mytravellove said:

Longwood50, if you look at my post, I was QUOTING someone else. I will definitely cruise with Celebrity. I like their ships, service, in some cases their itinerary and being Elite (very close to Elite Plus) I like their perks. However, it may not be in 2020 or 2021. So I have asked for 100% refund for my April 5th cruise that Celebrity has cancelled. There is no rush as they have indicated that refunds will be posted within 30 days.

Now I do have another Celebrity cruise on May 18th that hasn't been cancelled yet....but they can take their time to cancel that too...as I don't have flights, tours, hotels or anything booked...so nothing else to cancel (yes, sometimes procrastination pays off!)!

Hi Mytravellove,

Hey, I was also booked on that April 5th cruise. We are also from Nova Scotia!! Too

bad we couldn't have met on the cruise. We got our taxes and fees back but that's it.

We also are waiting  for a refund for the next cruise (TA that followed- a B2B). We also cancelled 3  cruises in September (cannot risk ever seeing my money back), We are are 

NOT patient or relaxed about getting a refund. They are stalling big time due

to money issues. Many say that it will take 30-60 (or more) days. I'm not

worried about the wait, I worried that they may not exist soon. A LOT of money to

lose. However, again, many people are not concerned about loosing money. Go figure??

Bill

or r

5 minutes ago, harz99 said:

Precisely, I think that is the worry for a lot of us.

 

In addition those of us across the pond who have booked with NRDs as that is our only option, are now being faced with making final payments for cruises starting weeks beyond the current arrangements expiry date, also with the same fears of ever getting a refund. I for one have no interest in FCC, the only consideration for me would be a protected price for an essentially the same cruise in 12 months time, but that is not on offer.

 

So cancel now for an August cruise and lose NRDs, or give the cruise lines more cash which you may never recover if a cruise line or corporation goes under. Neither idea makes me happy.

Hi,

YES, I had the same issues. I had 2 cruises in earlier April that were cancelled.

Waiting for a refund. I cancelled 3 cruises booked for September 2020 and

lost my NRD (will get some back as FCC that will likely expire before any cruises

resume). I could NOT give them anymore money in the form of a final payment!

This would be as they say "chasing good money after bad" and I would

likely lose more. It was also a tough call but I had to cut my losses.

9 hours ago, GottaKnowWhen said:

I am always amused by people who rant about how somebody should fix their IT issues. I wonder if they have ever written a program, set up a complex data structure, set up a network, ... It seems that they think this is all a simple process that can just get “ fixed!”

Frustration under our circumstances is understandable, but I don’t get why so many people talk about getting “their “ money back. It is not their money, they gave it to Celebrity! It is done, gone, spent. Oh, ok, now due to circumstances totally beyond Celebrity’s control, they can’t provide the product the customer had purchased. So they are graciously sending their money back to the customers. Sure, I will enjoy getting back the money I spent on my planned April TA, but it is not as though I was counting on that money to buy a new car or pay my taxes or whatever. It was budgeted for a trip including the TA. It was spent, gone from my account last fall sometime. Once it comes back, I am sure I can find a way to use it, but I can wait.

 

Relax folks, be grateful you are not trapped aboard a quarantine ship or in a foreign port. Stay safe, stay distant, enjoy the solitude, and think good thoughts about the trips coming up in a year or two.

Stan

Hi,

Glad you can relax and wait months for your refund.

But after several months of relaxing and waiting there might not be a cruise company.

Then try to get your refund!

5 minutes ago, DaiC01 said:

I've been saying similar on several forums {Not so eloquently} and have been called everything from deluded, mentally deranged and was even told that if I couldn't afford to wait for my money back perhaps I shouldn't of chose a cruise in the first place.

I suspect the people who are supporting RC over this are the same ones that have gold / diamond {whatever}  loyalty rep and are worried they will lose their "earned" perks if our money wasn't protecting the company.

Hi,

I TOTALLY agree with your comments on the letter they wrote and how many

 fellow cruisers handled your comments, mine and others (refund stalling). 

I've seen: "just relax", "they are busy", "be patient"

"they are under staffed", "they just got $2 Billion".

Are these people hypnotized by RCL?

It's TOTALLY about cash.

In my previous posts I've mentioned that RCL has 27 ships, Celebrity 14 and 

77,000 staff. Their priority is to take care of themselves not customers refunds.

I am also shocked how refunds can take 30 to 60 days.

They gave me a tax and fees refund after 3 weeks but wouldn't refund

the cruise at the same time. Why not? All the info is on the computer screen

when they were doing the taxes  and fees.

All it would take is a few key stokes (seconds).

11 hours ago, hcat said:

No refund yet to our card on the one that the rep said  was being sent to our card...

 

Is this done electronically, by letter or ?

In a store they put the numbers in and then it  is done to card..not sure why this is delayed.

 

We will call again tom to check on both of our pending refunds, and will probably cancel a third cruise.  We are still holding  onto one to use with the future cruise credit..

 

Some  folks may be experiencing cruise withdrawal, but we are in the disgusted mode. The illness is not the  fault of X but the handling of refunds and ill pax  have soured us for now.

Hi,

I haven't heard of one person getting a refund. Yes, a few got their taxes and fees (me too)

and FCC but no one got a refund yet. This scares me that it won't happen.

Yes, I agree that they are busy, short staffed etc etc. In todays age of computers each

refund should take seconds NOT 30-60 days. As I mentioned earlier, when they did

my taxes and fees, all the information was on their screen. Why not refund the cruise.

It's just one button more to press that should take seconds not 30 days. Yes they

are losing cash at a phenomenal rate BUT so am I.